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Avatar Community |OT| Live. Die. Repeat.

Yep, in the "kid friendly deaths thread" I just knew the first few answers I would see were Zaheer and Su.

And Su is supposedly a good guy.

Good job Su, you've scarred kids forever... Like Kuvira wasn't enough.
 
Yep, in the "kid friendly deaths thread" I just knew the first few answers I would see were Zaheer and Su.

And Su is supposedly a good guy.

Good job Su, you've scarred kids forever... Like Kuvira wasn't enough.

when suyin murked p'li i couldn't believe that was televised on a kids show lol
 
Watching the episode of Fresh Prince featuring.... an exiled Prince/ future Fire Lord.

He's come a long way.

Anyway... Jaded!!! Where are you??
 

Veelk

Banned
Turns out No Man's Sky is balls, Icy. Get Overwatch.

Edit: You know, I'm reading wheel of time, and you know something. "The Chosen One" is a really annoying ass fucking trope. It sets up this whole thing of predestination that loses it's gravitas because not only because it kind of ensures the hero will survive atleast until the final conflict, but also places them in a position of priveledge in the world. And I guess that's why it can appeal, the idea that you are special in the world relative to everyone else, but sucks the air out of the other protagonists in the series.

TLA handled it pretty well in retrospect. Because the way that being the avatar works, Aang is only the latest chosen one in a long series of them, and if he fails...well, the losses would be catastrophic and another people would be wiped out from the world, but the world itself would go on and another avatar would come to be. It didn't use predestination as a resolution, but he was born into a situation where the pressure was on him because of the cultural view the Avatar was looked at and the military situation that was in the world. Aang's life didn't have to be special necessarily, but it was made special by the rest of the story going on around him.

Neo from the matrix is another good example, since his becoming special was due to outside forces and because he himself chose to embrace the mantle. He was the chosen one because he chose to be. A neat little twist.

Versus Rand Al'Thor which is just HOLY SHIT levels of blarhbgbhahg. Between his idiot ass denying that he is the chosen one for 3 books when it was obvious from page 1 basically, there isn't much in the way of tension in questioning his survival, and I hate the fucker too much to be invested in his wellbeing.

And I'm still apparently in the 'good books' side of WoT. God...
 
Watching the episode of Fresh Prince featuring.... an exiled Prince/ future Fire Lord.

He's come a long way.

Anyway... Jaded!!! Where are you??
I am quite alive, thread is just so dead that it's impossible to find unless someone bumps the fucking thing. We both know Su is no good guy. She's the real villain of season 4, they just didn't want to address it.
 

Toa TAK

Banned
Damn, almost missed a good Veelk. I'm not too partial on the chosen one trope myself.

Also, everyone should get an Xbox one and play zombies with me.

Let's go fight zombies in an alternate Battle of Stalingrad people
 
Damn, almost missed a good Veelk. I'm not too partial on the chosen one trope myself.

Also, everyone should get an Xbox one and play zombies with me.

Let's go fight zombies in an alternate Battle of Stalingrad people
I think it'd be much cheaper for me, if you just bought a PS4. Or how about this. You buy me an Xbone and then I'll play zombies with you? Wait up...I'd still have to pay for Live, that's ok never mind.
 
Nah I'm just gonna get Deus Ex first. No Man's Sky still looks good to me despite it not quite living up, just not rushing to get it asap now.



I have a question that me and some of my friends discussing. Do you consider bending in Avatar to be a form of magic? I have some friends who say yes and some who say no. I say yes just because I consider most things where humans have special powers/abilities without the means of technology to be magic. Most who have said no say that because they only consider traditional magic like Harry Potter, and fantasy related stuff to be magic. One of my friends says no because how it works is explained within the universe, so he doesn't see it as magic.
 
I am quite alive, thread is just so dead that it's impossible to find unless someone bumps the fucking thing. We both know Su is no good guy. She's the real villain of season 4, they just didn't want to address it.

I'm still looking for a series to watch with a good story, and at least one waifu.
 

Veelk

Banned
I have a question that me and some of my friends discussing. Do you consider bending in Avatar to be a form of magic? I have some friends who say yes and some who say no. I say yes just because I consider most things where humans have special powers/abilities without the means of technology to be magic. Most who have said no say that because they only consider traditional magic like Harry Potter, and fantasy related stuff to be magic. One of my friends says no because how it works is explained within the universe, so he doesn't see it as magic.

Well, the answer is basically yes and no. Bending itself isn't magic, but elements of it move into the realm of magic.

Magic is, broadly speaking, a phenomenon that is outside of people's comprehension. Which means that the computer I'm writing this post on right now technically qualifies as magic to me. My understanding of computer science is pretty limited so I can't explain why my computer functions, it just does and it allows me to do something 'unnatural' like communicate complex ideas with random strangers hundreds of miles away. An alternative argument is that true magic is not just not understood, but not understandable. So I could learn about computer science and learn to understand my laptop, even if I don't at present, which makes it not magic. But if I could simply never come to understand it no matter what, then it is. You could say some physical laws qualify as this. We know how light and gravity works, but not so much why they work this way. Why the speed of light is the limit of the universe. Quantum mechanics are like this as well.

With that said, the general sliding scale of fictional magic goes from scientific to numinous, and Avatar's magic falls somewhere squarely in the middle, with elements that go into the numinous side.

Bending is not an illusive or rare ability, like the Force in Star Wars. Roughly 33-50 people in the avatar world are born as benders. Everyone knows it exists and people who can perform it are not viewed with any kind of reverence or divinity. They're just folks that have an ability that others don't, that's all. This frames Bending in a practical light. In the TLA days, you weren't even considered to have an extreme physical advantage over others, because normal person who trained in some kind of martial art could match you (Ty Lee, Mei, Jet, etc). So for the vast majority of people, bending is just a practical skill. They don't even need to fully understand it, much like how I don't need to fully understand my laptop, to make it work in their practical lives.

However, there IS a mystic side to bending. In TLA, whenever one brings up higher understanding of bending, it's always to do with understanding some spiritual truth. This is mostly for fighters who have a dedication to perfect their craft. Most people don't and just like to use the practical aspects of bending. But people like Zuko and Azula and Toph go about how they understand bending as a life style, not just how to throw around elements. This brings in a spiritual aspect to bending that makes it somewhat religious in nature. Katara's waterbending is more physically based than others, but even that is symbolic and meditative in nature to how her culture is encouraged to be: flowing, shifting, changing, dynamic. And of course the air nomads were all monks. So while most people just use bending practically, when you dedicate your life to it, it takes on a spiritual aspect.

But going in even further than THAT is the Avatar. He's the bridge to the spiritual realm from the physical world. The spiritual realm (ignoring LoK), is a realm of beings that don't operate by any real world rules. A face stealer. A shape shifting panda. Dead people. The Moon Spirits. Beings who work with wholly different values than us. All these things are unnatural even to the normal rules of the avatar world, and the Avatar himself is the key to that world. That makes the Avatar basically the equivalent to what a wizard or angel would be in our world. A messenger from the divine sent to guide us. In this case, the divine isn't a judeo-christian god, but it is the very being of the universe, more in line with the eastern philosophies that the show is based on. And due to that divine connection, the avatar has abilities that normal people do not and have no understanding of how that works and confirms the existence of a world that defies explication even within the universe of Avatar itself. That's numinousity. That's magic.


TLDR: I remember one scene where Sokka was complaining to Katara about bending being an explainable, scientific phenomon, to which she pointed out the unexplainable stuff that Aang did. His reply was "That's avatar stuff, it doesn't count." So that's basically it. Bending itself is not a magical thing in Avatar because of how widespread it is but it can lead to what is 'true magic' if you delve deep enough into it.

Yet another wasted potential plotline that LoK could have delved into in it's more advanced setting. I would have killed for an episode to some kind of university where Korra learns about how people are studying bending using something akin to the scientific method.
 
Rumor has it that the person who created this illustration (which was quietly distributed at SDCC) will be doing the art for the Korra comics.

tumblr_obvhec1nhz1shyazao1_1280.png

No word on the name of the artist yet. The KorraNews Tumblr is guessing it's a woman named Irene Koh, but I'm not convinced.

Also, damn, it feels like Sokka's/Katara's skin tone gets lighter and lighter as time passes. ;-;
 
Well, the answer is basically yes and no. Bending itself isn't magic, but elements of it move into the realm of magic.

Magic is, broadly speaking, a phenomenon that is outside of people's comprehension. Which means that the computer I'm writing this post on right now technically qualifies as magic to me. My understanding of computer science is pretty limited so I can't explain why my computer functions, it just does and it allows me to do something 'unnatural' like communicate complex ideas with random strangers hundreds of miles away. An alternative argument is that true magic is not just not understood, but not understandable. So I could learn about computer science and learn to understand my laptop, even if I don't at present, which makes it not magic. But if I could simply never come to understand it no matter what, then it is. You could say some physical laws qualify as this. We know how light and gravity works, but not so much why they work this way. Why the speed of light is the limit of the universe. Quantum mechanics are like this as well.

With that said, the general sliding scale of fictional magic goes from scientific to numinous, and Avatar's magic falls somewhere squarely in the middle, with elements that go into the numinous side.

Bending is not an illusive or rare ability, like the Force in Star Wars. Roughly 33-50 people in the avatar world are born as benders. Everyone knows it exists and people who can perform it are not viewed with any kind of reverence or divinity. They're just folks that have an ability that others don't, that's all. This frames Bending in a practical light. In the TLA days, you weren't even considered to have an extreme physical advantage over others, because normal person who trained in some kind of martial art could match you (Ty Lee, Mei, Jet, etc). So for the vast majority of people, bending is just a practical skill. They don't even need to fully understand it, much like how I don't need to fully understand my laptop, to make it work in their practical lives.

However, there IS a mystic side to bending. In TLA, whenever one brings up higher understanding of bending, it's always to do with understanding some spiritual truth. This is mostly for fighters who have a dedication to perfect their craft. Most people don't and just like to use the practical aspects of bending. But people like Zuko and Azula and Toph go about how they understand bending as a life style, not just how to throw around elements. This brings in a spiritual aspect to bending that makes it somewhat religious in nature. Katara's waterbending is more physically based than others, but even that is symbolic and meditative in nature to how her culture is encouraged to be: flowing, shifting, changing, dynamic. And of course the air nomads were all monks. So while most people just use bending practically, when you dedicate your life to it, it takes on a spiritual aspect.

But going in even further than THAT is the Avatar. He's the bridge to the spiritual realm from the physical world. The spiritual realm (ignoring LoK), is a realm of beings that don't operate by any real world rules. A face stealer. A shape shifting panda. Dead people. The Moon Spirits. Beings who work with wholly different values than us. All these things are unnatural even to the normal rules of the avatar world, and the Avatar himself is the key to that world. That makes the Avatar basically the equivalent to what a wizard or angel would be in our world. A messenger from the divine sent to guide us. In this case, the divine isn't a judeo-christian god, but it is the very being of the universe, more in line with the eastern philosophies that the show is based on. And due to that divine connection, the avatar has abilities that normal people do not and have no understanding of how that works and confirms the existence of a world that defies explication even within the universe of Avatar itself. That's numinousity. That's magic.


TLDR: I remember one scene where Sokka was complaining to Katara about bending being an explainable, scientific phenomon, to which she pointed out the unexplainable stuff that Aang did. His reply was "That's avatar stuff, it doesn't count." So that's basically it. Bending itself is not a magical thing in Avatar because of how widespread it is but it can lead to what is 'true magic' if you delve deep enough into it.

Yet another wasted potential plotline that LoK could have delved into in it's more advanced setting. I would have killed for an episode to some kind of university where Korra learns about how people are studying bending using something akin to the scientific method.

I knew you couldn't answer without being as technical as possible lol. The question I have for this is what does it being widespread and practical have to do with it being magic or not?
 

Veelk

Banned
I knew you couldn't answer without being as technical as possible lol. The question I have for this is what does it being widespread and practical have to do with it being magic or not?

You know if you want detailed answers, you come to me, because that's what I provide.

Anyway, widespread and practical use is relevant because of knowledge. I'm reminded of the Arthur C. Clarke quote. "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." "Magic", when you get down to it, isn't any kind of physical thing that happens by itself but a form of knowledge that some would wonder and be amazed at. So if it's something that people just know and use, then they're not going to wonder and awe at it. Magic has an inherent element of "This is something you don't understand."

So, if you have some kind of phenomenon that is so widespread and common that everyday people across the world use it, then the magic is removed from it. To give you an example, if you came up to me and showed me your cell phone, I wouldn't be impressed because I understand cell phones, atleast enough not to be amazed at them. They're part of everyone's everyday life. But if you went to some kind of indiginous tribe who has had no contact with the outside world, and presented them with a device that could tell where you are at any given time, talk to people miles away, take lifelike still images, or record entire minutes of something happening, and go on the internet to communicate with the entire human race, that would be something that those kinds of people have no frame of reference for even understanding. They would have to rework their entire world view on what is and isn't possible because this tiny little boxish thing is performing feats that they could only concieve in their myths, if at all. They would in wonder. And that is what magic is.

Bending (atleast the normal variety of the Avatar universe) would only provokes wonder and amazement in us, the audience. If someone did it in real life, shit yeah, that'd be magic. But in the avatar world, no, it's just a law of physics that happens to work differently, atleast until you delve deeper into it.
 
You know if you want detailed answers, you come to me, because that's what I provide.

Anyway, widespread and practical use is relevant because of knowledge. I'm reminded of the Arthur C. Clarke quote. "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." "Magic", when you get down to it, isn't any kind of physical thing that happens by itself but a form of knowledge that some would wonder and be amazed at. So if it's something that people just know and use, then they're not going to wonder and awe at it. Magic has an inherent element of "This is something you don't understand."

So, if you have some kind of phenomenon that is so widespread and common that everyday people across the world use it, then the magic is removed from it. To give you an example, if you came up to me and showed me your cell phone, I wouldn't be impressed because I understand cell phones, atleast enough not to be amazed at them. They're part of everyone's everyday life. But if you went to some kind of indiginous tribe who has had no contact with the outside world, and presented them with a device that could tell where you are at any given time, talk to people miles away, take lifelike still images, or record entire minutes of something happening, and go on the internet to communicate with the entire human race, that would be something that those kinds of people have no frame of reference for even understanding. They would have to rework their entire world view on what is and isn't possible because this tiny little boxish thing is performing feats that they could only concieve in their myths, if at all. They would in wonder. And that is what magic is.

Bending (atleast the normal variety of the Avatar universe) would only provokes wonder and amazement in us, the audience. If someone did it in real life, shit yeah, that'd be magic. But in the avatar world, no, it's just a law of physics that happens to work differently, atleast until you delve deeper into it.

I'd assume this is the key thing that separates the yes from the no in regards to giving an answer on whether or not one considers it magic. Within the avatar world or whatever fictional universe, having those abilities is normal and explained for them, so it's not magic from their point of view. But without taking that into consideration, the answer for the average person will probably fall to that it's magic.
 

Veelk

Banned
I'd assume this is the key thing that separates the yes from the no in regards to giving an answer on whether or not one considers it magic. Within the avatar world or whatever fictional universe, having those abilities is normal and explained for them, so it's not magic from their point of view. But without taking that into consideration, the answer for the average person will probably fall to that it's magic.

I mean....sure, I guess, but keep in mind that's not a hard line.

People understand bending in it's typical sense and common use. But between it having properties that few understand and also all the spirit world shenanigans, bending has the potential to be magical even to the inhabitants of the Avatar world.

But yeah, if you had to put it simply, the fact that people use bending as a common, everyday tool makes it non-magical to a large extent.
 
Every week should be Kuvira week.

Speaking of, I wonder if there are any Veelks on her...


Also, I will never give up.
Veelk was supposed to put up his own concept of how he'd work her in to his version of Korra, but I don't think he ever did. I know she'd be like her rival/best friend type though.
 

Veelk

Banned
I'm pretty sure I did do a Kuvira rewrite on here, you Bastards just haven't read it. Go back a few pages and check.
 
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=192614669&postcount=1239

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=192618278&postcount=1240

Okay, so I haven't written a full Kuvira thing yet. I just wrote her parts in the first season, where she is a significant figure, kind of a hero to Korra in particular, but mostly working in the background.

I have a busy day, but I may just write out Books 2 and 3 later, which feature her much more heavily.
I'd kill for a Korra and Kuvira friendship that is on the same level of friendship as Killua and Gon.
 

Veelk

Banned
In my rewrite, that's more Korra and Asami....along with Bolin and Mako. They're all more chill with each other than in the show.

Kuvira is more distant and complicated, but for good reasons (I hope anyway)
 
In my rewrite, that's more Korra and Asami....along with Bolin and Mako. They're all more chill with each other than in the show.

Kuvira is more distant and complicated, but for good reasons (I hope anyway)
I'm assuming this is because the Krew never tried to fuck each other in your rewrite. Though it does seem like Korra and Kuvira have a tight, but rather difficult friendship as well. Mostly because Kuvira is just an emotionally complex person.
 

Veelk

Banned
Once I get into Kuvira's story (and backstory), I think you'll see what I'm getting at.

Book 2 is the hardest part of this to write. I can take the basic equalist conflict of Book 1 and the basic Kuvira conflict of Book 3 and make it workable, but I'm trying to combine the spirit world aspects of Book 2 and the Z team of book 3 and make that work with my own writing. It's by far the biggest deviation from the original story because I fuck with how the spirit world works....which I have to to make it make sense with TLA since the original doesn't, but it's hard.
 
Why not just have the Z Team attempt to assassinate Suyin and Korra and Kuvira join up to try to stop them. Then have Kuvira take over for Suyin as ruler of Zaofu and from that point on Kuvira just becomes a Nazi. The rest should just be able to write itself from there.
 

Veelk

Banned
Oh, don't worry, I have my own plan in place. But it's natural to be self conscious about your own writing.

Then again, I'm not actually 'writing' it. There is a world of difference between even a detailed outline like I'm giving and actually writing out the story.

Look, I'll put it out eventually, and you guys can respond how you like (or not respond, you lazy bastards).
 

Veelk

Banned
You're all of questionable mental health and need to be put in an asylum.

And I actually have a minor in creative writing along with my psych degree.
 
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