Has Jean and Wanda ever faced off? I always thought that Wanda would get possessed by the Phoenix force but then that would be too predictable.
Avengers & X-Men: AXIS (OT) The Red Onslaught
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Has Jean and Wanda ever faced off? I always thought that Wanda would get possessed by the Phoenix force but then that would be too predictable.
Manmademan
Member
no, jean has been dead for most of the time that Wanda has been OP.
Wanda did face off against the phoenix force in AvX a couple of years ago though- the chaos power she has is diametrically opposed to it, though not quite as powerful. It won't/can't possess her.
The Silver
Member
All I know is is fuck them for that attempt to blame everything Wanda did on my man Doom.
Marvel is just taking advantage of the fact that events and #1 issues sell.
It kinda was Doom's fault.
Supermanisdead
Member
No, it was Magneto's fault for making her strip for him back when she was in the brotherhood of mutants giving her major daddy issues and also the Avengers fault for accepting her clearly delusional ass relationship with a robot and making fake children. Also the fault of Wonder-man for simping for her broke down psycho ass even after she ripped his dick off, literally.
Also, its mainly her fault for just being so goddamn unlikable.
EDIT: And let's not forget about Quicksilver because that's clearly just not healthy.
Also, its mainly her fault for just being so goddamn unlikable.
EDIT: And let's not forget about Quicksilver because that's clearly just not healthy.
crimsonspider89
Banned
Nonono. Wanda has been the same powerlevel since the 60/70s.
After Stan Lee left they established her power as chaos magic due to her birth and making her a nexus being.
bengraven
Member
Wait etc...
Wanda's power really isn't complicated if you ignore House of M, where Bendis got her powers completely wrong (she was never remotely that powerful before).
Children's Crusade, which brought her back after Bendis had her banned from comics for years, even provided a simple retcon for Bendis's mistake: she had some kind of Phoenix-like force within her (due to Doom's manipulations) which made her do all those bad things, she lost the power, Doom stole it and then he lost it.
The problem is writers and editors don't communicate, or read other people's stories. When Al Ewing wrote Wanda in a fill-in issue, he wrote her as having "probability" powers, which was her power set for 30+ years and, while vague, provides a basic limitation (nothing that is totally impossible, only improbable). Even Bendis knew enough to write her more or less this way when he used her in Avengers vs. X-Men. Most writers don't know the character beyond House of M though, just as many readers don't know the character before House of M.
My feeling is they should just ignore House of M/Disassembled and blame them on Doom or the Phoenix or the weather or something. Bendis basically wrote a new character with new powers and new motivations, because he needed someone to accomplish certain plot goals. From 1964-2004 she was in the Avengers constantly and was not at all a hard character to write, apart from being one of the most consistently likable characters. But Bendis seems to have a thing for taking consistently likable characters and trying to break them (see also Beast).
But the evidence for the character being broken is basically one page of Disassembled, two pages of House of M (she doesn't actually appear very much in either of those events) and a couple bad speeches in Uncanny Avengers. Any time someone other than Bendis or Remender writes her, she's still OK.
It's likely she and Pietro will be changed or Secret Wars'd to make them more like their cinema versions, though, so this may all be moot. But the "Wanda is a terrible person" X-fan mantra annoys me because it assumes that a few pages of bad writing wipe out everything a character was for 40 years, and that's giving writers way too much power. Plot is up to the writers, but if they write someone out of character, fans can still say "that's out of character, it doesn't count."
Nothing fake about them. Vision was desperate for kids so she used magic to get pregnant, then consulted with Dr. Strange about whether this was OK, and he not only said it was OK, he delivered the children himself.
The idea that they were delusions born of her desperation to have children was, again, something Bendis introduced more or less out of nowhere. (Byrne wanted to get rid of the kids so he erased them, but his retcon was that the spell went bad and somehow turned demon souls into babies... which is bad witchcraft, but not delusion.) It's really interesting how Disassembled and House of M are so specifically aimed at new readers that they almost go out of their way to ignore or contradict what came before.
Much more complicated than that, unfortunately.
Stan just had her as having "hex power" that causes bad luck to stuff. It wasn't much more than "what if there was a mutant who was kind of like a witch?"
The next writer wanted something more scientific, so based on a reader letter he changed it to "manipulates probability," which sort of became the basic description of her power for a long time.
But another writer wanted her to get more involved in the supernatural side of Marvel, so he had her learn some magic to help control her mutant power.
Still another writer tried to come up with an explanation for how she could have both mutant and magic ability, and introduced the retcon of her and Pietro being somehow gifted by a magic demon.
Then in the '90s Kurt Busiek wanted to find a way for all these explanations to be true and simplify her powers at the same time. So he explained that her power, thanks to the chaos-demon, was a mutant ability to manipulate a particular kind of magic energy ("chaos magic") which has the ability to disrupt probability and occasionally do other stuff.
You can see how each of these retcons increases her power potential a bit, but the problem with writing her power goes all the way back to Stan and his very vague definition. "Hex power" can mean a lot of things and usually does.
Children's Crusade, which brought her back after Bendis had her banned from comics for years, even provided a simple retcon for Bendis's mistake: she had some kind of Phoenix-like force within her (due to Doom's manipulations) which made her do all those bad things, she lost the power, Doom stole it and then he lost it.
The problem is writers and editors don't communicate, or read other people's stories. When Al Ewing wrote Wanda in a fill-in issue, he wrote her as having "probability" powers, which was her power set for 30+ years and, while vague, provides a basic limitation (nothing that is totally impossible, only improbable). Even Bendis knew enough to write her more or less this way when he used her in Avengers vs. X-Men. Most writers don't know the character beyond House of M though, just as many readers don't know the character before House of M.
My feeling is they should just ignore House of M/Disassembled and blame them on Doom or the Phoenix or the weather or something. Bendis basically wrote a new character with new powers and new motivations, because he needed someone to accomplish certain plot goals. From 1964-2004 she was in the Avengers constantly and was not at all a hard character to write, apart from being one of the most consistently likable characters. But Bendis seems to have a thing for taking consistently likable characters and trying to break them (see also Beast).
But the evidence for the character being broken is basically one page of Disassembled, two pages of House of M (she doesn't actually appear very much in either of those events) and a couple bad speeches in Uncanny Avengers. Any time someone other than Bendis or Remender writes her, she's still OK.
It's likely she and Pietro will be changed or Secret Wars'd to make them more like their cinema versions, though, so this may all be moot. But the "Wanda is a terrible person" X-fan mantra annoys me because it assumes that a few pages of bad writing wipe out everything a character was for 40 years, and that's giving writers way too much power. Plot is up to the writers, but if they write someone out of character, fans can still say "that's out of character, it doesn't count."
Nothing fake about them. Vision was desperate for kids so she used magic to get pregnant, then consulted with Dr. Strange about whether this was OK, and he not only said it was OK, he delivered the children himself.
The idea that they were delusions born of her desperation to have children was, again, something Bendis introduced more or less out of nowhere. (Byrne wanted to get rid of the kids so he erased them, but his retcon was that the spell went bad and somehow turned demon souls into babies... which is bad witchcraft, but not delusion.) It's really interesting how Disassembled and House of M are so specifically aimed at new readers that they almost go out of their way to ignore or contradict what came before.
Much more complicated than that, unfortunately.
Stan just had her as having "hex power" that causes bad luck to stuff. It wasn't much more than "what if there was a mutant who was kind of like a witch?"
The next writer wanted something more scientific, so based on a reader letter he changed it to "manipulates probability," which sort of became the basic description of her power for a long time.
But another writer wanted her to get more involved in the supernatural side of Marvel, so he had her learn some magic to help control her mutant power.
Still another writer tried to come up with an explanation for how she could have both mutant and magic ability, and introduced the retcon of her and Pietro being somehow gifted by a magic demon.
Then in the '90s Kurt Busiek wanted to find a way for all these explanations to be true and simplify her powers at the same time. So he explained that her power, thanks to the chaos-demon, was a mutant ability to manipulate a particular kind of magic energy ("chaos magic") which has the ability to disrupt probability and occasionally do other stuff.
You can see how each of these retcons increases her power potential a bit, but the problem with writing her power goes all the way back to Stan and his very vague definition. "Hex power" can mean a lot of things and usually does.
MHWilliams
Member
The problem is Wanda has never been particularly interesting outside of those events.
Like Pym, the fact that she's screwed up so big so many times is the most intriguing she's been in forever. Literally, outside of that, the most notable moment for her is joining the Avengers and marrying Vision, the latter of which is all by expunged at this point.
I say this as someone who's read the old Avengers issues, Avengers West Coast, Force Works, and more... the Scarlet Witch has yet to find that writer to make her sing. Busiek was probably the closest to providing a solid take on the character while explaining her various power fluctuations over the years, but even then she was wrapped up in Wonder Man bullshit. At this point, her existence of the past decade is as a powerful macguffin of horribleness, and the Avengers straight up ignoring the vast amount of power she currently wields just makes people hate her even more.
Currently, she's treading into Sentry territory, so they either need to Nate Grey her or take her off the board.
Bendis?
Supermanisdead
Member
Axis #9
lol
Can't believe this event really happened.
Good riddance to bad trash. I will never look at Rick Remender the same way.
Final score: 2/10!
lol
Can't believe this event really happened.
The inverted villains creating that video to exonerate the Avengers and X-Men was bullshit. The ARE to blame. Scarlet Witch's stupidity and incompetence gets white washed again. Bullshit!
Good riddance to bad trash. I will never look at Rick Remender the same way.
Final score: 2/10!
Ugh, I still blame Axis #8 for the Deus Ex Machina vs Scarlet Witch.
They still haven't explained the off-screen 'faustian pact'.
They still haven't explained the off-screen 'faustian pact'.
Not exactly. That was just them running away from NYC. This week's Deadpool shows him stashing Evan away at his hideout... and genuinely having some self-reflection.
No, Deadpool and Evan
edit: also LOL
I love how no one has commented on how Loki lifted the hammer yet 
ElRenoRaven
Member
I have to say I liked the ending. Can't wait to see where they go with
Iron Man and Sabertooh.
No, Deadpool and Evan
edit: also LOLI love how no one has commented on how Loki lifted the hammer yet
I was so done by that point that it didn't even register.
ElRenoRaven
Member
Yup kind of looking forward to that. The new
superior Iron Man
No, Deadpool and Evan
edit: also LOLI love how no one has commented on how Loki lifted the hammer yet
Wade and Evan
Loki could have been badass but at that point, I was meh.
Manmademan
Member
yeah, this one has the "worst marvel event to see print" title locked up nice and tight.
Pray that marvel never gets the rights to the X-men back, so this shit never sees a film version.
Pray that marvel never gets the rights to the X-men back, so this shit never sees a film version.
it was a weekly series.
Like 52 or Countdown?
Pop-O-Matic
Banned
You'd really compare this trite to 52?
Manmademan
Member
it really is incredibly terrible.
Meanwhile AMAZING THINGS are going on in Uncanny X-men and All-New X-men.
Pop-O-Matic
Banned
Speaking of which, is there anything like Rip Hunter's Chalkboard the other writers can use to backhand this out of continuity.
Manmademan
Member
Yeah there is, and she's in uncanny x-men right now.
Supermanisdead
Member
Uncanny X-Men and All New X-Men are the two best comics at Marvel right now.
E the Shaggy
Junior Member
What is this, like the dozenth time they've tried making Sabretooth into Wolverine?
I hated this event. At least Hickman is doing great things with Superior Tony.
I hated this event. At least Hickman is doing great things with Superior Tony.
Manmademan
Member
Can't really disagree. Don't sleep on that annual either, wow
Supermanisdead
Member
Yeah that two part annual was wild. Been waiting for that story for months now and it was really worth the wait.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
towards the end? how about throughout the whole damn book lol
trash comic...the kinda shit that if your non-comic friends read they will think you are weirdest goddamn person and are too old for this shit
Manmademan
Member
other than being a great story with great art, it's an excellent example of the x-men being better integrated into the broader marvel universe. there were a lot of unexpected cameos in that, yet it all makes sense.
Palette Swap
Member
I can't really explain what I kept blowing money on an event that was so bad week after week but now that it is finally over, yeah, the whole thing smells like someone finally took a shit after digesting a bad nineties comic for two decades.
Also, why would Cyclops welcome asshole Havok? That makes no sense. Unless Remender is trying to very subtly hint at "Cyclops is an asshole lol".
Edit: at least, the writing and art complement each other perfectly.
Also, why would Cyclops welcome asshole Havok? That makes no sense. Unless Remender is trying to very subtly hint at "Cyclops is an asshole lol".
Edit: at least, the writing and art complement each other perfectly.
Zeus Molecules
illegal immigrants are stealing our air
...I thought Cyclops being an asshole was official canon
Nah I get that, but towards the end of this issue. Just really rushed, I couldn't tell what expression everyone had on their faces when Sabretooth was writing his letter to himself after Mags told everyone that Doom and co. got away.
I liked the Sabretooth monologue towards the end btw, I felt like he really wanted to live on in
Logan's spirit
All in all though, I knew Remender would disappoint. Didn't like 2/3 of his Uncanny Avengers (especially that Havoc speech) and I didn't like Axis. Just a bad comic.
People are better off reading Hickman's Avengers books. Those are clearly a much better read.
Supermanisdead
Member
Cyclops welcomed the psychopath Havok because lawl Cyclops is evil.
Remember when Havok stans were so happy that Remender was going to give him his due respect and props? Then he spent a year being a Captain America stooge, culminating in him ending up as a permanently disfigured villain.
Can't help but feel glad about how Havok ended up. After all his "Don't call me the m-word wah wah" whining, now he's everything he hated. An ugly, evil mutant. Suck it, bitch.
Remember when Havok stans were so happy that Remender was going to give him his due respect and props? Then he spent a year being a Captain America stooge, culminating in him ending up as a permanently disfigured villain.
Can't help but feel glad about how Havok ended up. After all his "Don't call me the m-word wah wah" whining, now he's everything he hated. An ugly, evil mutant. Suck it, bitch.
This event had moments I liked a lot and now I just want to see how certain characters react in the aftermath. I also think this book did a decent job of setting up quite a few books until at least Secret Wars.
Inverted Havok basically has the same personality as Cyclops.
Rememder obviously doesn't like the X-Men and especially hates Cyclops based on his writing post avx.
The heroes in Uncanny Avengers are so annoying...
Marvel would never make an Axis movie and if they did it would have to be completely different anyways.
Inverted Havok basically has the same personality as Cyclops.
Cyclops welcomed the psychopath Havok because lawl Cyclops is evil.
Remember when Havok stans were so happy that Remender was going to give him his due respect and props? Then he spent a year being a Captain America stooge, culminating in him ending up as a permanently disfigured villain.
Can't help but feel glad about how Havok ended up. After all his "Don't call me the m-word wah wah" whining, now he's everything he hated. An ugly, evil mutant. Suck it, bitch.
Rememder obviously doesn't like the X-Men and especially hates Cyclops based on his writing post avx.
The heroes in Uncanny Avengers are so annoying...
Marvel would never make an Axis movie and if they did it would have to be completely different anyways.
I was expecting Havok to die, but with this outcome we get a version of him that I can actually tolerate.
Supermanisdead
Member
So what happened to the Wasp?
Manmademan
Member
probably vanished into the same plot hole that brother voodoo came out of
What I don't get is
1. Wasn't Cyclops inverted too? He didn't really display anything different but took even more extreme measures I guess. Wouldn't he know his brother is kinda still fucked up?
2. Good portion of upper X-Men were inverted so why would they all still hate on Evan? He got fucked just as bad as they did.
1. Wasn't Cyclops inverted too? He didn't really display anything different but took even more extreme measures I guess. Wouldn't he know his brother is kinda still fucked up?
2. Good portion of upper X-Men were inverted so why would they all still hate on Evan? He got fucked just as bad as they did.
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