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Axios (Stephen Totilo) Lawyers: Email proves Microsoft’s ABK bid is designed to elimination (Update: MS claims it was a "thought experiment")

A

azertydu91

Hard to Kill
NickFire said:
Agreed the water got a little murkier. But claiming it was a total bust before anyone saw the exact language is bridge too far. Deals of this caliber don't get explored, signed, and set up for a closing after countless regulatory reviews in a day. You know that.
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I Cant Hear You World Cup GIF by Football Australia
 
adamsapple

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
NickFire said:
Agreed the water got a little murkier. But claiming it was a total bust before anyone saw the exact language is bridge too far. Deals of this caliber don't get explored, signed, and set up for a closing after countless regulatory reviews in a day. You know that.
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I'm referring to this specific talking point about this being a targeted point of the acquisition. This supposedly redacted email is from 2019, far before the acquisition talk was a twinkle in anyones eyes.

Can you draw a parallel between this and the acquisition talk 3 years later ? just like how you can draw parallel's between anything if you stretch it thin enough.
 
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Mr Moose

Mr Moose

Member
bluecowboys said:
If this is the best FTC can use then it is over for FTC. I guess Microsoft will seal the deal soon enough.
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You should probably learn to read.
As Microsoft pushes back against the Federal Trade Commission’s attempt to block its proposed Activision bid, a parallel legal battle is adding an intriguing twist.

Driving the news: In an appeal to the U.S. 9th Circuit Court, lawyers representing a group of gamers suing to block the deal over antitrust concerns point to a purported internal Microsoft email they describe as “uncontroverted evidence that Microsoft had the intention to put its main competition, the Sony PlayStation, out of the market.”
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A

azertydu91

Hard to Kill
bluecowboys said:
You are telling me Microsoft predicted that Activision stocks will dip a lot and MS will buy it back in 2019?

I guess MS has a Time Machine and knows this deal is going through. Well that settles that.
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And you want to tell us that these acquisitions are not in talk long before being publicly announced?Or even just reveal wwhat they want instead of games to more players?
 
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TheThreadsThatBindUs

TheThreadsThatBindUs

Member
simpatico said:
Isn't that the reason any business does anything? To get rid of their competition?
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This is the most insufferably ignorant thing I've read on the internet all week... WTF?!? Hahahaha, WOW!!

So you think lawmakers who sign anti-competitive legislation into law to prohibit anti-competitive behavior in the marketplace are just what... encoding into law the prohibition of normal market practices?

You guys can be so nuts at times.

If it even needed to be said: businesses' reason for doing anything is to make money and create value for shareholders. Deliberately trying to run their competitors out of the markets they do business in is fucking illegal in every jurisdiction around the globe... this kind of behavior even has a name, it's called anti-competitive/anti-trust practices.

Ethical businesses try their best to avoid such behaviors, not least because they want to willingly act within the laws of all the markets they do business in, but also because they understand that competition is good for the market, good for consumers as well as being very good for themselves and their own bottom line, e.g. stimulates innovation, competitors in a market will often share common branches of their supply chains, meaning they benefit on cost from the economies of scale engendered by multiple competitors buying components from the same suppliers.

Any exec openly discussing anti-competitive sentiment is an exec openly discussing an intent to commit a crime. There's nothing ethical or normal about that.

It's baffling to me that this even needs to be explained to you.
 
ZehDon

ZehDon

Member
azertydu91 said:
Do you have an example that is more recent than 10 years ago?...
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Why do I need one in this case? You claimed Sony and Nintendo were never aggressive. I simply highlighted that the literal reason for PlayStation's existence was to destroy Nintendo, and I provided examples of their continued attempts to do even after forcing Nintendo out of the console arms race. "Well, they're not doing it right this second!" is a poor attempt at hand waving the basic facts.

The clearest example of Sony's continued aggression towards its competitors is that we know Sony tried to buy every exclusive it could prior to the start of this generation - including Starfield. They wanted to leave Xbox with literally nothing. This is evident in the titles they snagged - what was the brand purpose of buying up exclusivity of titles like Godfall, Destruction All Stars, Ghostwire, and Deathloop? Thanks to some of the documents and discussions around Microsoft's purchases, we also know Sony pays to keep games off of Game Pass. Given the drop in Xbox's market share last generation, the sheer momentum leading up to the PS5's launch, and their continued dominant market advantage (we're talking 2.5:1), why would Sony still need to be that unashamedly aggressive if not to give Microsoft a clear reason to simply bow out - as had been the rumour prior to the start of the current generation? Sony's only mistake in its strategy is in underestimating Microsoft's commitment to Xbox - as did everyone else. Not a soul on Earth expected Microsoft's response to Sony's aggression to be USD$77b in acquisitions. All I see is Sony trying to push out another competitor - only this time the competitor pushed back. Do I think Microsoft's purchases are good for the industry? Not really. But do I shed a tear for poor little Sony getting smacked after trying its best to push out another player? Not at all.
 
adamsapple

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Can we get a topic title update via any resident mods ?

It should clarify the email is from 2019.
 
DeepEnigma

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
TheThreadsThatBindUs said:
This is the most insufferably ignorant thing I've read on the internet all week... WTF?!? Hahahaha, WOW!!

So you think lawmakers who sign anti-competitive legislation into law to prohibit anti-competitive behavior in the marketplace are just what... encoding into law the prohibition of normal market practices?

You guys can be so nuts at times.

If it even needed to be said: businesses' reason for doing anything is to make money and create value for shareholders. Deliberately trying to run their competitors out of the markets they do business in is fucking illegal in every jurisdiction around the globe... this kind of behavior even has a name, it's called anti-competitive/anti-trust practices.

Ethical businesses try their best to avoid such behaviors, not least because they want to willingly act within the laws of all the markets they do business in, but also because they understand that competition is good for the market, good for consumers as well as being very good for themselves and their own bottom line, e.g. stimulates innovation, competitors in a market will often share common branches of their supply chains, meaning they benefit on cost from the economies of scale engendered by multiple competitors buying components from the same suppliers.

Any exec openly discussing anti-competitive sentiment is an exec openly discussing an intent to commit a crime. There's nothing ethical or normal about that.

It's baffling to me that this even needs to be explained to you.
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These topics bring out the asinine clowns and ignorance.
 
Bumblebeetuna

Bumblebeetuna

Member
DeepEnigma said:
Yes it has.

"Look at all these empty deals we are offering all these companies to help them all out so we all win" paraphrased with many of their talking points.
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If MS could have gotten the acquisition without those deals, they would have.

Again, you’re wrong, but I appreciate the effort.
 
NickFire

NickFire

Member
adamsapple said:
I'm referring to this specific talking point about this being a targeted point of the acquisition. This supposedly redacted email is from 2019, far before the acquisition talk was a twinkle in anyones eyes.

Can you draw a parallel between this and the acquisition talk 3 years later ? sure you can, but you can draw parallel's between anything if you stretch it thin enough.
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No one is stretching by acknowledging that an alleged discussion to try buying a 70 trillion dollar company at some point in 2019 (do we even know what month?), might be related to that very deal which was signed in the beginning of 2022. Claiming otherwise is 🤡
 
DeepEnigma

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
ChorizoPicozo said:
that is even worse
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Seriously. He's total re re right now.

adamsapple said:
Actually yeah, the entire topic title is inaccurate

"Email proves Microsoft’s ABK bid is designed to elimination PlayStation"

The email precedes this, so we can safely rule out abk bid part completely.
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The email lays out their plans. You know this, you're just being disigenuous.
 
A

azertydu91

Hard to Kill
ZehDon said:
Why do I need one in this case? You claimed Sony and Nintendo were never aggressive. I simply highlighted that the literal reason for PlayStation's existence was to destroy Nintendo, and I provided examples of their continued attempts to do even after forcing Nintendo out of the console arms race. "Well, they're not doing it right this second!" is a poor attempt at hand waving the basic facts.

The clearest example of Sony's continued aggression towards its competitors is that we know Sony tried to buy every exclusive it could prior to the start of this generation - including Starfield. They wanted to leave Xbox with literally nothing. This is evident in the titles they snagged - what was the brand purpose of buying up exclusivity of titles like Godfall, Destruction All Stars, Ghostwire, and Deathloop? Thanks to some of the documents and discussions around Microsoft's purchases, we also know Sony pays to keep games off of Game Pass. Given the drop in Xbox's market share last generation, the sheer momentum leading up to the PS5's launch, and their continued dominant market advantage (we're talking 2.5:1), why would Sony still need to be that unashamedly aggressive if not to give Microsoft a clear reason to simply bow out - as had been the rumour prior to the start of the current generation? Sony's only mistake in its strategy is in underestimating Microsoft's commitment to Xbox - as did everyone else. Not a soul on Earth expected Microsoft's response to Sony's aggression to be USD$77b in acquisitions. All I see is Sony trying to push out another competitor - only this time the competitor pushed back. Do I think Microsoft's purchases are good for the industry? Not really. But do I shed a tear for poor little Sony getting smacked after trying its best to push out another player? Not at all.
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Not once have I said they were never agressive.
Here's my quote
azertydu91 said:
And would you say Sony is still trying to do that ?
Because apparently Xbox was created with that goal in mind too and yet hasn't evolved since.
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So I even agreed that playstation was created in that goal so you are maybe arguing with somedy else here.ut the clear intention of destroying a company I can't remember example from somehting like 15 years ago (before that I was busy with health problems so there may have had some).
 
adamsapple

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
DeepEnigma said:
The email lays out their plans. You know this, you're just being disigenuous.
Click to expand...


We literally don't know what the email lays out, you're projecting too much lol.

We *CAN* definitely rule this part out at least:

Because it supposedly shows an Xbox exec saying that the plan around buying Activision is to put PlayStation out of business
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The email is from 2019, the Acquisition discussions didn't begin until late 2021.


Kilau said:
Sure.

Email content confirmed by MS, deal to destroy PlayStation discussed as early as 2019.

Done.
Click to expand...


It would be more accurate than what it is right now 🤷‍♂️
 
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Bumblebeetuna

Bumblebeetuna

Member
ZehDon said:
Why do I need one in this case? You claimed Sony and Nintendo were never aggressive. I simply highlighted that the literal reason for PlayStation's existence was to destroy Nintendo, and I provided examples of their continued attempts to do even after forcing Nintendo out of the console arms race. "Well, they're not doing it right this second!" is a poor attempt at hand waving the basic facts.

The clearest example of Sony's continued aggression towards its competitors is that we know Sony tried to buy every exclusive it could prior to the start of this generation - including Starfield. They wanted to leave Xbox with literally nothing. This is evident in the titles they snagged - what was the brand purpose of buying up exclusivity of titles like Godfall, Destruction All Stars, Ghostwire, and Deathloop? Thanks to some of the documents and discussions around Microsoft's purchases, we also know Sony pays to keep games off of Game Pass. Given the drop in Xbox's market share last generation, the sheer momentum leading up to the PS5's launch, and their continued dominant market advantage (we're talking 2.5:1), why would Sony still need to be that unashamedly aggressive if not to give Microsoft a clear reason to simply bow out - as had been the rumour prior to the start of the current generation? Sony's only mistake in its strategy is in underestimating Microsoft's commitment to Xbox - as did everyone else. Not a soul on Earth expected Microsoft's response to Sony's aggression to be USD$77b in acquisitions. All I see is Sony trying to push out another competitor - only this time the competitor pushed back. Do I think Microsoft's purchases are good for the industry? Not really. But do I shed a tear for poor little Sony getting smacked after trying its best to push out another player? Not at all.
Click to expand...

But that’s way different because reasons!

You’re absolutely right, MS took the response to an 11, but their motivation is the same as the other hardware companies. It’s hilarious to see so many here stumbling to argue otherwise.
 
dotnotbot

dotnotbot

Member
adamsapple said:
Actually yeah, the entire topic title is inaccurate

"Email proves Microsoft’s ABK bid is designed to elimination PlayStation"

The email precedes this, so we can safely rule out abk bid part completely.
Click to expand...

Your title must be displaying wrong or something, here is how it looks like and it's correct:

Lawyers: Email proves Microsoft’s ABK bid is designed to elimination PlayStation​

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But I'm sure you know better than lawyers having full uncesored text of this email.
 
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DrFigs

DrFigs

Member
adamsapple said:
My dude, you literally said " The email lays out their plans. " about a redacted piece of content that none of us have read.

Glass door, stone throwing, something something.
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I see what you're saying. But Activision Blizzard is not the first publisher microsoft has bought. The redacted email could be revealing a long-standing plan to buy out publishers for all we know. And I guess ABK happened to be their next target incidentally. Either way, there's no reason to assume the best from Microsoft.
 
A

azertydu91

Hard to Kill
Kilau said:
Sure.

Email content confirmed by MS, deal to destroy PlayStation discussed as early as 2019.

Done.
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You got any proof that they started in late 2021?Even if that doesn't change anything in fact it also put the Zenimax acquisition for that same reason too.Maybe buying 2 publisher would be their plan to destroy sony.How hard is it to understand, but if it has no connection whatsoever just reveal said email, it would be an easy solution right ?
 
ZehDon

ZehDon

Member
azertydu91 said:
Not once have I said they were never agressive.
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I beg your pardon, you're absolutely correct. I mis-remembered your post as the being the person I originally quoted, which did make that inferrence. You didn't say they were never aggressive, that's my error.
 
In Cold Blood

In Cold Blood

Banned
The definition of competition is multiple parties trying to harm the other by taking their customers and money.
It's literally what it is.
We know Sony hates MS and wants to destroy Xbox, and I would hope that MS hates Sony and wants to destroy PlayStation.
The worst thing would be if Sony and MS liked each other and decided to work together and share the market as best they can. That would be collusion.
 
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