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[CTLance]

Now imagine feeling that way, but actually being from the US. I think that might actually be worse.

Nah.
At least US citizens can march on the streets or yell at politicians with a chance of doing something about this, however slight it may be. Which I sincerely hope they're doing right now.

The rest of the world like us just gets to helplessly stand at the sidelines while Trump undoes what tiny little concession-riddled action plan we had finally managed to agree on, after years of disgraceful squirming. (And it's not even Trump. He's just a symptom of the greater corruption in the hearts and minds of a big part of the US. )

 

[gaiages]

Lol.

Why is everyone so angry all the time.. Pls try and resolve issues instead of making it worse with phrases like these

A lot of Americans are just as frustrated at the state of affairs, and a LOT of the nuances surrounding the election and the federal government (Hillary winning the popular vote, Republicans choosing party over constituents, etc) makes it hard to make progress in doing anything about it. You can pester your representative daily and raise awareness on all the shit that Trump's doing, yes, but that only gets so much done if these officials truly don't care about their district or state. I live in Florida, and it's truly maddening how little the elected representatives care about their citizens as a whole, especially since there are a lot of poorer rural areas that are going to get majorly fucked by a lot of Trump's promises.

Though yeah, I agree anger doesn't really solve anything, the anger is pretty understandable at this point.

 

[Lord Frieza]

How small do you think Europe is?

Europe, as a whole, is obviously quite big. European countries, though, are small in comparison to the States. Many of our individual States are bigger than a majority of European countries. But, as I stated before and was mostly dodged before, size is really only one issue. One thing that Europe generally has over the States as well is decent and relatively cheap public transportation, correct? The States lacks severely in good and cheaply priced public transportation.

 

[RangerX]

This man is a cunt of astronomical proportions.

 

[Pandora012]

Nah.
At least US citizens can march on the streets or yell at politicians with a chance of doing something about this, however slight it may be. Which I sincerely hoping they're doing right now.

The rest of the world like us just gets to helplessly stand at the sidelines while Trump undoes what tiny little concession-riddled action plan we had finally managed to agree on, after years of disgraceful squirming. (And it's not even Trump. He's just a symptom of the greater corruption in the hearts and minds of a big part of the US. )

Depends where. In the US they are trying to put laws to restrict protesting. Then there are those that are scared that the police will kill them.

Trump is the president, because he is likable and able to lie to the people. In many parts of the US, people don't want to accept what is happening. They would rather cling to false hope, rather than try to figure out something. As you saw with people thinking that coal mines will open up and their way of life will return. Or those refusing to learn new trades, when there job is no longer needed.

A lot of Americans are just as frustrated at the state of affairs, and a LOT of the nuances surrounding the election and the federal government (Hillary winning the popular vote, Republicans choosing party over constituents, etc) makes it hard to make progress in doing anything about it. You can pester your representative daily and raise awareness on all the shit that Trump's doing, yes, but that only gets so much done if these officials truly don't care about their district or state. I live in Florida, and it's truly maddening how little the elected representatives care about their citizens as a whole, especially since there are a lot of poorer rural areas that are going to get majorly fucked by a lot of Trump's promises.

Though yeah, I agree anger doesn't really solve anything, the anger is pretty understandable at this point.

The only way I see for them to 'change' is when they see the pendulum start to swing in the 2018 elections. Right now they are in power, and they can just ignore the signs.

 

[Elandyll]

Fun fact: if the Joel Stein voters had put their votes in for Clinton she would have won Mi and Wi.
Still not president (PA hurt the most by far with its 20 evs), but she would have been darn close. Split the Johnson voters either way, and it's a big win for Clinton.

Having protest vote in the final round of a Presidential is stupid, and here we are.

 

[mnz]

Are there any repercursions for the US specifically if they go out? As in, can the other major economies of the Paris accords (financially) punish the US for bailing out and fucking up mother earth at an even quicker rate?

Some countries have rules or laws against competition which doesn't respect those agreements. France apparently does, for example. The EU as a whole is united on this one and they just did this with China: https://www.ft.com/content/585f1946-45e2-11e7-8519-9f94ee97d996

It's not even just about climate change. It's simply harder to compete against industries which don't abide by the same rules. It's like Trump is trying to use a shortcut only to get a penalty. I really hope everyone can come together on this one. Looks like a logical step, too.

 

[Xando]

Europe, as a whole, is obviously quite big. European countries, though, are small in comparison to the States. Many of our individual States are bigger than a majority of European countries. But, as I stated before and was mostly dodged before, size is really only one issue. One thing that Europe generally has over the States as well is decent and relatively cheap public transportation, correct? The States lacks severely in good and cheaply priced public transportation.

This is only true if you speak of cities. If you live in a rural area public transportation is either very poor or not existant.

 

[Algebrah]

This action is the hardest one for me to deal with. I want to buy a house and possibly have a child soon. But given the way things are going I don't feel comfortable owning property in America and I definitely don't feel comfortable raising a child here.

I want to fight for change in America but these last few months have been soul crushing.

 

[psyfi]

It's way past clear that Trump and his allies want to see the world dead, desperate, and easily manipulated. They don't give a shit about us or our survival. We need to respond accordingly.

I want to fight for change in America but these last few months have been soul crushing.

Don't let the onslaught get you down. Let yourself feel the pain and fear, but then let it motivate you. Connect with people who are also fighting and let them inspire you.

 

[Ac30]

Fun fact: if the Joel Stein voters had put their votes in for Clinton she would have won Mi and Wi.
Still not president (PA hurt the most by far with its 20 evs), but she would have been darn close. Split the Johnson voters either way, and it's a big win for Clinton.

Having protest vote in the final round of a Presidential is stupid, and here we are.

Make it a 2 round system like in France so independents actually have a shot and people wouldn't fucking protest vote for joke candidates.

 

[Fritz]

Europe, as a whole, is obviously quite big. European countries, though, are small in comparison to the States. Many of our individual States are bigger than a majority of European countries. But, as I stated before and was mostly dodged before, size is really only one issue. One thing that Europe generally has over the States as well is decent and relatively cheap public transportation, correct? The States lacks severely in good and cheaply priced public transportation.

Dude, you're frustrating me. When I want to protest a European matter I don't have to travel to Brussels. I'll just go to the next hemlock and make my voice heard. Orchestrate it!

But whatever, I guess there is nothing you poor Americans can do outside of voting, donating and posting on message boards how upset and helpless you are. So that's the end of the line I understand.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

Americans are worse than ISIS. At least ISIS has some religious fundamentalism to back up all their terrorist acts, the US are just pure evil and want to destroy this planet just because.

SOMEONE CALL THE HOT TAKE POLICE

 

[msdstc]

This just in:



https://twitter.com/PhilipRucker/status/869913162702876672

Oh god please change your mind.

 

[Lord Frieza]

This is only true if you speak of cities. If you live in a rural area public transportation is either very poor or not existant.

Okay, that sounds similar to rural America, too then. Don't a lot of European countries still have active train stations that go through rural areas as well, though? Or have I misheard about that?

 

[Ac30]

Oh god please change your mind.

Trump: "What would Obama do?"

Next day, the US leaves.

 

[Pandora012]

Make it a 2 round system like in France so independents actually have a shot and people wouldn't fucking protest vote for joke candidates.

But then the republicans wouldn't win.... A lot if not all voting reform would hurt the Republicans, so they are less than likely to fix/improve anything.

 

[Ac30]

But then the republicans wouldn't win.... A lot if not all voting reform would hurt the Republicans, so they are less than likely to fix/improve anything.

I'm aware. Automatic registration, weekend voting, mail in ballots in all states, abolishing the EC - literally any of it would be an improvement, because Republicans can't be arsed to actually run decent candidates, or have any humane policy proposals at all.

 

[Carn82]

This is only true if you speak of cities. If you live in a rural area public transportation is either very poor or not existant.

Nahh.. "European" public transport, even in rural areas, is much more available compared to most American rural areas. Hence their reliance on cars.

 

[Lord Frieza]

Dude, you're frustrating me. When I want to protest a European matter I don't have to travel to Brussels. I'll just go to the next hemlock and make my voice heard. Orchestrate it!

But whatever, I guess there is nothing you poor Americans can do outside of voting, donating and posting on message boards how upset and helpless you are. So that's the end of the line I understand.

Voting and donating are worth condescension to you? You realize you're posting on a message board, too, right, so that's a weird moral high ground to stake? I mean, it's equally frustrating to me that you continue to argue something without really addressing most of my points, and then degrade the political activity I do take part in just because it doesn't match a standard you seem to have set. It wasn't long ago in this thread you were basically implying I'm a slob who just sits on his couch all day, despite me even saying how much I work before that, so I guess it's not that unexpected, but does little to highlight whatever points you're trying to make.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

Pretty sure the +2C was a pipe dream a long, long time ago, we're already at +1.4C compared to pre-industrial times.

4C will be catastrophic, and probable. Good thing I'll be dead by 2100.

What? No we're not. Annual global difference just hit +1C in 2016 iirc. You're probably looking at monthly differences, which isn't the same thing.

 

[smisk]

Does anyone else feel like we're seeing the end of the US as a global influence/superpower? That's probably an exaggeration but between this and the recent comments by Merkel it feels like things are going this way. Definitely sets the stage for someone like China to lead the world in combating climate change.

 

[Xando]

Okay, that sounds similar to rural America, too then. Don't a lot of European countries still have active train stations that go through rural areas as well, though? Or have I misheard about that?

Some do but these trains usually go from big city to big city and only pass through rural stations once every few hours.

Nahh.. "European" public transport, even in rural areas, is much more available compared to most American rural areas. Hence their reliance on cars.

This absolutely depends on what you call rural areas. towns with 2000+ inhabitants usually have a trainstation and some bus stops (atleast here in germany). Anything smaller and you are absolutely fucked without a car.

 

[Vena]

Oh god please change your mind.

Trump's opinion on this is less relevant than California's, even if the US "withdraws" California will dictate most of the movement towards green and green tech anyway. Several other large budget-positive states will be doing the same, California is just the largest of the juggernauts. Don't be surprised if EU nations and China start just making state-based deals rather than nation-wide deals... which, of course, means that the defunct red states will be even more defunct as more and more economic opportunities just skip them entirely.

I'm actually curious if California can't just sue Trump on this as well.

 

[Majine]

But even many of his own people thinks they should stay. Who is he listening too!?

Is this simply a Obama thing? Fucking grow up you orange disaster!

 

[Occam]

how does pulling out make america great? LMFAO fucking orange piss stain.

If his father had pulled out, that would have helped to keep America great.

 

[Ac30]

What? No we're not. Annual global difference just hit +1C in 2016 iirc. You're probably looking at monthly differences, which isn't the same thing.

I'm pretty sure we're at +1C compared to 1965-1985 or so levels, +~1.4C compared to pre-industrial. I'll see if I can find the article I read it in later.

EDIT: I'm super tired so you may be right - I may have misread the bar charts.

 

[Zolo]

But even many of his own people thinks they should stay. Who is he listening too!?

Is this simply a Obama thing? Fucking grow up you orange disaster!

Fox News and anti-Obama.

 

[darkwing]

who was surprised by this, anything Obama did, will be undone

 

[Pandora012]

Trump's opinion on this is less relevant than California's, even if the US "withdraws" California will dictate most of the movement towards green and green tech anyway. Several other large budget-positive states will be doing the same, California is just the largest of the juggernauts. Don't be surprised if EU nations and China start just making state-based deals rather than nation-wide deals... which, of course, means that the defunct red states will be even more defunct as more and more economic opportunities just skip them entirely.

I'm actually curious if California can't just sue Trump on this as well.

They'd sue if the fed tried to do anything like the with the sanctuary cities. Remember States Rights....

 

[Goldenroad]

SOMEONE CALL THE HOT TAKE POLICE

You could say that about literally any post in this thread including your own.

 

[BoogieWoogie]

But even many of his own people thinks they should stay. Who is he listening too!?

Is this simply a Obama thing? Fucking grow up you orange disaster!

He's listening to shit bags like Mitch McConnell, Scott Pruitt, and other senators who are either insane or evil or both.

 

[Vena]

They'd sue if the fed tried to do anything like the with the sanctuary cities. Remember States Rights....

Well that's what I mean, without actually "doing something", withdrawing from the accords is tantamount to throwing a fit but doing nothing because the states will ignore him and proceed as is because their economies have already shifted toward green-positive and green technology investments.

California's economy is large enough to dictate emissions for the entire US, for example. Trump can't do anything about it with his withdraw unless he directly targets California.

That said, I still find it a tad funny and sad that Tillerson is pro-accords. The poor man must be pulling out his hair in frustration.

 

[WhateverItTakes]

Fuck this man and the the republican party so much.

 

[valkyre]

What a fucking disgrace really.

 

[lush]

Go for it, won't even be remotely construed as a W by anyone, not even his shrinking base. This would be catastrophically stupid.

 

[Brandon F]

On behalf of the rest of the world, fuck him and all the people who put him in power.

Literally appalled at all the friends and family I did my best to respectfully argue with during the campaign over a Trump vote. Their foresight is now proven officially shit between this and all the other corrupt and immoral policies. Never trusting a single one of them on anything again.

 

[mnz]

Does anyone else feel like we're seeing the end of the US as a global influence/superpower? That's probably an exaggeration but between this and the recent comments by Merkel it feels like things are going this way. Definitely sets the stage for someone like China to lead the world in combating climate change.

Well, kind of, yeah. The UN, USAID, NATO, international agreements...some of the most powerful tools the US has on the world stage and Trump is sabotaging them all in one way or another. It's really a completely different view of the world at work here and the speed at which it is happening is staggering. Much harder to build influence than to lose it, too.

And you guys barely play football, so you're already in a bad position.

edit: Already forgot about TPP/TTIP. It's been too long.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Trump's opinion on this is less relevant than California's, even if the US "withdraws" California will dictate most of the movement towards green and green tech anyway. Several other large budget-positive states will be doing the same, California is just the largest of the juggernauts. Don't be surprised if EU nations and China start just making state-based deals rather than nation-wide deals... which, of course, means that the defunct red states will be even more defunct as more and more economic opportunities just skip them entirely.

I'm actually curious if California can't just sue Trump on this as well.

California doesn't have the authority to make treaties or agreements with foreign countries. Only the federal government can do that.

Does anyone else feel like we're seeing the end of the US as a global influence/superpower? That's probably an exaggeration but between this and the recent comments by Merkel it feels like things are going this way. Definitely sets the stage for someone like China to lead the world in combating climate change.

Yes, the age of the US being the dominant power in the world is ending. China and probably Germany are going to step up to fill in the holes left by a broken US.

 

[Vena]

California doesn't have the authority to make treaties or agreements with foreign countries. Only the federal government can do that.

Not treaties, just business deals. Businesses will funnel into and through California for investments and partnerships (along with other major states that are evolving into the green sector). California and the other states with these investments and partnerships will simply continue to prosper on this growing market/technology.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

I'm pretty sure we're at +1C compared to 1965-1985 or so levels, +~1.4C compared to pre-industrial. I'll see if I can find the article I read it in later.

EDIT: I'm super tired so you may be right - I may have misread the bar charts.

There are different "starting" points, but I can't find anything that shows we're at or near +1.4C. Most articles last year were talking about finally breaching the +1C mark. Highest thing I found was +~1.2C, but that's not talking about global average increase, that's the difference between the coldest year and warmest year.

 

[Ac30]

Well that's what I mean, without actually "doing something", withdrawing from the accords is tantamount to throwing a fit but doing nothing because the states will ignore him and proceed as is because their economies have already shifted toward green-positive and green technology investments.

California's economy is large enough to dictate emissions for the entire US, for example. Trump can't do anything about it with his withdraw unless he directly targets California.

That said, I still find it a tad funny and sad that Tillerson is pro-accords. The poor man must be pulling out his hair in frustration.

He's got to punish them somehow for those three million illegals voting against him.

 

[Pandora012]

Well that's what I mean, without actually "doing something", withdrawing from the accords is tantamount to throwing a fit but doing nothing because the states will ignore him and proceed as is because their economies have already shifted toward green-positive and green technology investments.

California's economy is large enough to dictate emissions for the entire US, for example. Trump can't do anything about it with his withdraw unless he directly targets California.

That said, I still find it a tad funny and sad that Tillerson is pro-accords. The poor man must be pulling out his hair in frustration.

Yup, unfortunately many people outside the us don't realize that what Trump is doing won't change much of anything. Well accept sour even more of how the US is seen. He can withdraw, but many states and companies are already in the green bandwagon. I think only the hardcore repub states are being stubborn. Yet even they will see the economic sense of change, ofcourse while kicking and screaming.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

You could say that about literally any post in this thread including your own.

I don't think anything I wrote has come close to calling Americans worse humans than ISIS.

But nice try!

 

[leroidys]

The real definition of environmental terrorism.

 

[Future]

Literally appalled at all the friends and family I did my best to respectfully argue with during the campaign over a Trump vote. Their foresight is now proven officially shit between this and all the other corrupt and immoral policies. Never trusting a single one of them on anything again.

I bet your friends and family are pleased with their vote though. It's not like trump is doing anything that surprising. He's doing everything he said he would do and is also acting the same as well.

You can't win arguments over this shit because it's a fundamental difference in viewpoints. There are people that try to prevent and prepare for fire, and others that spend no money or time until there is a fire. GOP is the latter

 

[Maxim726X]

Yes, the age of the US being the dominant power in the world is ending. China and probably Germany are going to step up to fill in the holes left by a broken US.

Economically, this couldn't be further from the truth. The US is still positioned to be the world superpower for many years to come, particularly with the incoming rise of automation which should all but destroy China's economy, at least in the short term.

And as bad as things look right now, Trump's administration is not permanent. It may take years to back out of the agreement anyway, so there's a chance that his position can be reversed before any real damage is done.

 

[SafeinSound]

People and governments around the world need to stand up to this. There needs to be protests.

 

[PdotMichael]

Economically, this couldn't be further from the truth. The US is still positioned to be the world superpower for many years to come, particularly with the incoming rise of automation which should all but destroy China's economy, at least in the short term.

And as bad as things look right now, Trump's administration is not permanent. It may take years to back out of the agreement anyway, so there's a chance that his position can be reversed before any real damage is done.

Sweet summerchild.

Trump is not the end of the fuckery in US politics but he just a symptom of a broken and sick system. And also interesting that automation will help China

 

[Dr Funfrock]

https://www.ft.com/content/585f1946-45e2-11e7-8519-9f94ee97d996

China and the EU have come together to fill the vacuum if Donald Trump decides to retreat from international action on climate change by forging a new green alliance to combat global warming.

In a stark re-alignment of forces, documents seen by the Financial Times show that Beijing and Brussels have agreed to measures to accelerate what they call the ”irreversible" shift away from fossil fuels and the ”historic achievement" of the Paris climate accord.

This was a quick response

E: Oh, thanks Jokata