No.
I'm so glad this game sold the way it did, and that all naysayers won't be able to influence the production team with their "Batmobile is total bullshit" mantra.
Rocksteady finally gave people a more difficult game, where challenges actually put you to the test on both skill and in-game knowledge, they made a fantastic dark story
(and a clever Return of the Joker remake XD)
and ceaseled the game with little touches which enhance the experience of Being the Batman, vehicle takedowns being my personal favourite, with a map design which glorifies the lore of the comic book as memorably as Asylum and City did.
They came up with a giant map, intricate but not impossible puzzles, harder and faster combat, seriously disturbing episodes which never appeal to tasteless gore, an insane graphic engine, full real time, seamless cut-scenes, a new combat system (the tank combat) which rivals the freeflow system in simplicity and flexibility. But, hey, it's not enough: "it's not what people want".
I do agree they shit the pot with
Deathstroke and
the final boss fights, but let's face it: people are judging this game on the presumption of easiness.
The driving and the tank combat, tied with the respective challenges, are prohibitive, yes.
Knightmare has some rage inducing episodes, yes.
But isn't this EXACTLY what was asked to them with previous games? Isn't a godsend to have a Batman game which is going to last years in terms of graphic quality and gameplay challenge? Isn't satisfying to learn the ropes and OWN every challenge this game presents? Do people who throw shit at the Batmobile played on Hard/Knightmare, know how to score perfect shots, know hot to pause the timer with drifts during the races, know how to dodge properly during chases/tank fights?
Is it possible they really didn't enjoy chasing an APC truck through a tunnel while driving upside down at full speed on the top of the motherfucking ceiling?
It's so frustrating to see the judgement on this game to be based on a couple of poor design decisions, when EVERY OTHER SINGLE THING the game does is executed to perfection.
But hey, hopefully the next Arkham game is going to be a five hour story mode with 60 challenge maps which I'll never play twice and beat at my first try, so I can get some achievements and then follow the next shiny thing I see in front of me, amirite?
Would be nice if Arkham Knight at least had the same number of challenge maps as City and Origins, which I've played over and over almost every day since those games were released.
But hey, it's nice that WB can charge extra money for them.
Pretty much agree with the rest of your rant though.
I'm going to do all sidestuff and then just move on to NG+ and just google the ending. No cutscene in the world is worth going through 200 of those Riddler trophies.
The Batmobile stuff is excessive. The Cobra Tank stuff being the worse of it and the constant showdowns with 20+ tanks and aerial drones. It just happens too damn often. If they would have scaled that stuff back by 50% I think it would have been perfect. The balance is way off.
THIS.
I don't think the Batmobile stuff is poorly designed the handling model definitely needs some work but I think they missed the balance in terms of how much of it is in the game.
Yeah, the actual mechanics of the Batmobile are fine - there's just too damn much of it and the Batmobile is implemented on nearly every non-Stagg airship puzzle in the game as well as every boss battle.
Hell there isn't even
a head to head confrontation with the Arkham Knight, someone who has been built up through marketing and the story to be a physical and strategic match for Batman. It's a series of two Batmobile sequences and a predator sequence within an hour's span.
The main campaign Batmobile stuff isn't even difficult (outside of a frustratingly unfun
Cloudburst fight
, it's more because they don't really ever get more interesting than your first encounters with the mechanic.
I fucking love the bat mobile as a concept, but holy fuck who designed the controls for this thing? The Mako controlled better, that is just how infuriating the controls are.
RS were in a "damned if they do damned if they dont" scenario. You have 3 games that already play very similarly. To put yet a fourth game out there thats more of the same risks burnout. I know I had zero intention of playing the game had it been more of the same. It wasn't until I caught wind of some of the reviews that I decided to suspend a second Witcher 3 playthrough to give this a go.
The Batmobile has been front and center in nearly every piece of marketing for the game, and is even emphasized on the boxart. There's already been three Batman games focused almost solely on freeflow and predator sections. And Knight doesn't have a shortage of those if you play the side missions.
I fucking love the bat mobile as a concept, but holy fuck who designed the controls for this thing? The Mako controlled better, that is just how infuriating the controls are.
I do want to acknowledge one point you make that I agree with.
Rocksteady was no doubt caught between a rock and hard place in regards to giving gamers what they knew and evolving the series.
There is a risk of the formula being stale and Rocksteady wanted to raise the bar like they did with AC and the batmobile was their way of doing that.
I get that and I understand that.
Here is the most important point I want to make:
I am firmly of the belief that you can get away with not doing anything new as long as what you are doing is done well. I dont think anybody would have been upset if they ended up giving us Arkham City 2.0. As long as they story was good and the gameplay was solid, people would have been very happy with it.
Take for example, the Last of Us, in terms of gameplay it does virtually nothing that is original. They just do it quite well and are able to keep the player engaged.
Call of Duty gets away with this and I believe the Arkham series would have been fine if they went this route. Thats not to say that minor tweaks are not appreciated and cant happen.
Despite all my complaints about the batmobile here is what I would change that would elevate the game to masterpiece:
No, you batmobile lovers will NOT agree with this, but is how I feel.
1. Decrease the batmobile content by about 50%
2. Decrease the number of enemies in the encounters.
3. Provide an upgrade that increases the rate of locking on.
4. Provide a camoflouge upgrade so that you are not totally fucked if you get seen in the Cobra encounters.
Yes, I am fully aware that these changes will dramatically decrease the difficulty, but for me they would make them way more fun.
Ok, I feel stupid. I can't make the jump from the lighthouse. It's very early in the game. I've tried it at least 10 times and I never make it to the other side. I have been going almost flat out and the hit the turbo button, nope still short.
I do want to acknowledge one point you make that I agree with.
Rocksteady was no doubt caught between a rock and hard place in regards to giving gamers what they knew and evolving the series.
There is a risk of the formula being stale and Rocksteady wanted to raise the bar like they did with AC and the batmobile was their way of doing that.
I get that and I understand that.
Here is the most important point I want to make:
I am firmly of the belief that you can get away with not doing anything new as long as what you are doing is done well. I dont think anybody would have been upset if they ended up giving us Arkham City 2.0. As long as they story was good and the gameplay was solid, people would have been very happy with it.
Take for example, the Last of Us, in terms of gameplay it does virtually nothing that is original. They just do it quite well and are able to keep the player engaged.
Call of Duty gets away with this and I believe the Arkham series would have been fine if they went this route. Thats not to say that minor tweaks are not appreciated and cant happen.
There were not three TLOU games before it though so that doesn't quite work. This is about the evolution of this franchise and where this game would sit inside it, not where it stands in the pantheon of games in that genre.
COD games change things pretty substantially with every outingespecially apparent now that they have three teams each working on three year cycles when it comes to what matters most, multiplayer. COD SP campaigns are disposable and not finished by MAJORITY of the people who buy the game. Multiplayer is constantly changing, just like at AW to BO3.
But I do agree with your overall sentiment. They could have done next gen Arkham City and most would have been okay with that, but they took a risk knowing that if they executed on it to the best of their abilities it could be really cool. The Batmobile is a LARGE part of Batman's identity, culturally. I'm not going to kill them for attempting to put it in their final Batman game.
Despite all my complaints about the batmobile here is what I would change that would elevate the game to masterpiece:
No, you batmobile lovers will NOT agree with this, but is how I feel.
1. Decrease the batmobile content by about 50%
2. Decrease the number of enemies in the encounters.
3. Provide an upgrade that increases the rate of locking on.
4. Provide a camoflouge upgrade so that you are not totally fucked if you get seen in the Cobra encounters.
Yes, I am fully aware that these changes will dramatically decrease the difficulty, but for me they would make them way more fun.
Despite all my complaints about the batmobile here is what I would change that would elevate the game to masterpiece:
No, you batmobile lovers will NOT agree with this, but is how I feel.
1. Decrease the batmobile content by about 50%
2. Decrease the number of enemies in the encounters.
3. Provide an upgrade that increases the rate of locking on.
4. Provide a camoflouge upgrade so that you are not totally fucked if you get seen in the Cobra encounters.
Yes, I am fully aware that these changes will dramatically decrease the difficulty, but for me they would make them way more fun.
1. The overabundance of Batmobile content only really applies to the main story, which is something like 40% of the total content (what my game said after I mainlined the story in NG+). Bear in mind I wouldn't lump Batmobile puzzle solving in with the other stuff since it's basically just a gadget there and doesn't really affect the gameplay.
2. Spam the missile special attack (four button presses or greater) and encounters will go by much quicker.
3. Meh. That would make those sections much less deliberate.
4. I've escaped from Cobras plenty of times on Hard and Knightmare after being spotted. You aren't really locked in a small area for those sections so the player has plenty of room to get creative with their escapes and approaches.
There were not three TLOU games before it though so that doesn't quite work. This is about the evolution of this franchise and where this game would sit inside it, not where it stands in the pantheon of games in that genre.
COD games change things pretty substantially with every outing—especially apparent now that they have three teams each working on three year cycles— when it comes to what matters most, multiplayer. COD SP campaigns are disposable and not finished by MAJORITY of the people who buy the game. Multiplayer is constantly changing, just like at AW to BO3.
But I do agree with your overall sentiment. They could have done next gen Arkham City and most would have been okay with that, but they took a risk knowing that if they executed on it to the best of their abilities it could be really cool. The Batmobile is a LARGE part of Batman's identity, culturally. I'm not going to kill them for attempting to put it in their final Batman game.
1) AGREE
2-4) Try sucking less? (I KID I KID! I couldn't resist)
LOL.
If ONLY you understood the struggle of being a gamer with ADD. You guys seriously have no idea how much harder those encounters are when your reflexes are a tad bit slower.
That is the reason why I can't do competitive deathmatch multiplayer I just get owned. The only time I am useful in competitive multiplayer is when I am serving as support for team based.
LOL.
If ONLY you understood the struggle of being a gamer with ADD. You guys seriously have no idea how much harder those encounters are when your reflexes are a tad bit slower.
That is the reason why I can't do competitive deathmatch multiplayer I just get owned. The only time I am useful in competitive multiplayer is when I am serving as support for team based.
Have you tried playing on a lower difficulty? Totally not trying to be condescending or anything, but dropping the difficulty on those parts will drastically speed them up and allow you to get to the sections you enjoy.
Have you tried playing on a lower difficulty? Totally not trying to be condescending or anything, but dropping the difficulty on those parts will drastically speed them up and allow you to get to the sections you enjoy.
Im on NG+. But really I can make it through those sections just fine. Very rarely have I died. Although I did get some cheap deaths. Like when
facing the cloudburster, the camera just went all over the place and you're frantically trying to turn and escape in a few instances I got stuck and just got smashed by his attacks since he is so damn fast.
Having said that, its really the AR challenges that made me hate the tank so much. I got absolutely slaughtered in Slumdog Billionaire and Untouchable. If not for the 9 gimme stars from the Scarecrow challenges I would not have gotten all 69.
I did like the challenge that involved you racing from battle point to battle point. I just wish they had given you a little more margin for error for three stars, while the elitist gamers get to brag using their rival point.
Just got Riddler stuff left to do. I finished Bleake Island and Panessa now I'm on to Miagani. Not so bad. I'm already over 100 after about one play session of just Riddler trophies. I really enjoyed the story overall.
Reading over the article again, yeah he's pretty much spot on.
A 7/10 is not a bad score, but fanboys like to go in fits of rage on anything that doesn't correlate with their own lines of thinking. Personally, I'd give it a 7.5 - but all of Kevin's points are valid.
What Arkham Knight does well, it does really well. However, there's alot of important issues with the game where they drop the ball on and designed very poorly - having the game designed around the Batmobile, poor story, and the worst bosses in recent memory.
I tried this, but I never had much luck with it. It was going to be my strategy for getting through Slumdog Billionaire. Unfortunatly that plan went to hell when all enemies stayed behind the line and made it impossible to hack.
Im on NG+. But really I can make it through those sections just fine. Very rarely have I died. Although I did get some cheap deaths. Like when
facing the cloudburster, the camera just went all over the place and you're frantically trying to turn and escape in a few instances I got stuck and just got smashed by his attacks since he is so damn fast.
Having said that, its really the AR challenges that made me hate the tank so much. I got absolutely slaughtered in Slumdog Billionaire and Untouchable. If not for the 9 gimme stars from the Scarecrow challenges I would not have gotten all 69.
I did like the challenge that involved you racing from battle point to battle point. I just wish they had given you a little more margin for error for three stars, while the elitist gamers get to brag using their rival point.
AR challenges are on their own difficulty level, probably on baseline normal.
edit: also, EMP is the superior power to blow your charges on anyway, stops the tanks nearest to you even at level 1 (you can then dash up to them instead of away from lines now) and stops missiles in the air.
Reading over the article again, yeah he's pretty much spot on.
A 7/10 is not a bad score, but fanboys like to go in fits of rage on anything that doesn't correlate with their own lines of thinking. Personally, I'd give it a 7.5 - but all of Kevin's points are valid.
What Arkham Knight does well, it does really well. However, there's alot of important issues with the game where they drop the ball on and designed very poorly - having the game designed around the Batmobile, poor story, and the worst bosses in recent memory.
The problem isn't that the Batmobile exists and it's certainly not anything related to difficulty. The problem is the sections involving it are more tedious and filler than anything else. Aside from a few pointless APC sidequests, you never really spend any time chasing enemies in the Batmobile. All the driving-related content is tied to offshoot riddler stuff.
The drone fights aren't mechanically unsound, they're just bland, repetitive, and tedious. By the second or third drone fight, you've seen everything they have to offer even though you've got another couple dozen to go. Your options are also incredibly limited as you only have a handful of weapons, most requiring special energy to use. They're less exciting and more bloat to up the game's run-time than anything else.
Same goes for the cobra tanks. Those parts are exactly the same from the first to the last one. The game just ups the numbers. Once again, they're not mechanically unsound, per se, but they are just as tedious and pointless. Every encounter plays out roughly the same and allows for relatively little freedom in playstyle.
Worst of all are the boss fights.
Big showdowns with the Knight and Deathstroke should not be tank battles. These are characters billed as equals to Batman in skill and strength. Yet, instead of a badass brawl, a predator sequence, or something new, it's just more tedious drone combat. The one time they switched it up some, the Knight drill sequence, I was rolling my eyes for how stupid the encounter felt, even for a comic book game about a man who dresses up as a bat.
So yeah, the big problem isn't that the Batmobile exists. It's cool looking and fun to drive around in but the core gameplay parts of it are bland, tedious, and never grow in complexity or design from the first time you do them for the most part. I didn't think mundane would be the word I used to describe the "epic" conclusion to the Arkham trilogy when they announced the game.
so, funny/not funny story...i somehow didn't know about the machine gun part of the tank so i was constantly only shooting missiles and running from the missiles being shot at me....finally near the end of the game i hit R1 and then hated/loved myself....how in the hell did i miss that for so long?
So Bruce faked his and Alfred's death 100%, that's for certain, but did he release fear toxin into the entire city by blowing up Wayne Manor or did he return as Batman at the end and the "scary Batman turning into a bat" image was just metaphorical cause Arkham Knight was about Scarecrow and fear toxin?
Another theory of mine is that Bruce pulled a TDKR and totally retired from being Batman and someone else took up the mantle, specifically Dick, since he got no mention in the ending as to his current status when Tim and Barbara did. At least to me, the "fear toxin being released into Gotham by Bruce" theory is kind of weak since everyone, not just criminals, would be scared shit-less of their own fears forever.
The problem isn't that the Batmobile exists and it's certainly not anything related to difficulty. The problem is the sections involving it are more tedious and filler than anything else. Aside from a few pointless APC sidequests, you never really spend any time chasing enemies in the Batmobile. All the driving-related content is tied to offshoot riddler stuff.
The drone fights aren't mechanically unsound, they're just bland, repetitive, and tedious. By the second or third drone fight, you've seen everything they have to offer even though you've got another couple dozen to go. Your options are also incredibly limited as you only have a handful of weapons, most requiring special energy to use. They're less exciting and more bloat to up the game's run-time than anything else.
Same goes for the cobra tanks. Those parts are exactly the same from the first to the last one. The game just ups the numbers. Once again, they're not mechanically unsound, per se, but they are just as tedious and pointless. Every encounter plays out roughly the same and allows for relatively little freedom in playstyle.
Worst of all are the boss fights.
Big showdowns with the Knight and Deathstroke should not be tank battles. These are characters billed as equals to Batman in skill and strength. Yet, instead of a badass brawl, a predator sequence, or something new, it's just more tedious drone combat. The one time they switched it up some, the Knight drill sequence, I was rolling my eyes for how stupid the encounter felt, even for a comic book game about a man who dresses up as a bat.
So yeah, the big problem isn't that the Batmobile exists. It's cool looking and fun to drive around in but the core gameplay parts of it are bland, tedious, and never grow in complexity or design from the first time you do them for the most part. I didn't think mundane would be the word I used to describe the "epic" conclusion to the Arkham trilogy when they announced the game.
I'd have to say that this post hits the nail on the head. But the one difference between tank battles and predator/combat encounters is the amount of tools at your disposal.
In terms of the AR challenges, for the tank combat you pretty much have no margin for error. None. For the predator/combat you have a ton of tools to get yourself out of tight situations and various moves that allow you to regoup and reassess. You have no such options with the tank AR battles. The EMP was the closest to this, but it came at a cost.
Another theory of mine is that Bruce pulled a TDKR and totally retired from being Batman and someone else took up the mantle, specifically Dick, since he got no mention in the ending as to his current status when Tim and Barbara did. At least to me, the "fear toxin being released into Gotham by Bruce" theory is kind of weak since everyone, not just criminals, would be scared shit-less of their own fears forever.
It's just a theory. The one that makes the most sense though, I suppose, is that now that Bruce is understood to be dead by everyone, he could be Batman full time now. Fear toxin or not, him appearing as a scary bat to the criminals at the end could either be Batman using fear toxin at that moment or just a metaphor that Batman is now a myth instead of a man since the "man" is "dead".
Batmobile is fine. Great concept. Handles good enough for most of its segments.
Problem I had with it is not enough variety in how its used. Overwhelming amount of fighting cobras and DRONES. Also, this car wasn't made to handle Trackmania style curves, loops, and hairpin turns WHILE handling shifting platforms and such - so THOSE sections (no spoilers) were god awful.
Finally, the engine isn't built to handle the speed at which the car can go at the end of the game. Drops that felt like I was playing the PC version occurred far too often when attempting to chase Firefly down. Dragged those sections to the pits (as if being intensely repetitive wasn't bad enough).
When used to assist Batman and occasionally take out a car here and there, its absolutely wonderful. The winch uses in particular are always cool.
The drone fights aren't mechanically unsound, they're just bland, repetitive, and tedious. By the second or third drone fight, you've seen everything they have to offer even though you've got another couple dozen to go. Your options are also incredibly limited as you only have a handful of weapons, most requiring special energy to use. They're less exciting and more bloat to up the game's run-time than anything else.
So Bruce faked his and Alfred's death 100%, that's for certain, but did he release fear toxin into the entire city by blowing up Wayne Manor or did he return as Batman at the end and the "scary Batman turning into a bat" image was just metaphorical cause Arkham Knight was about Scarecrow and fear toxin?
Another theory of mine is that Bruce pulled a TDKR and totally retired from being Batman and someone else took up the mantle, specifically Dick, since he got no mention in the ending as to his current status when Tim and Barbara did. At least to me, the "fear toxin being released into Gotham by Bruce" theory is kind of weak since everyone, not just criminals, would be scared shit-less of their own fears forever.
I think its the idea that criminals fear Batman and have built up this mythology around him because no one knows who or what he is. This is why Scarecrows plan to ruin Batman's legacy was to expose him as just a man who can be as weak and fearful as anyone. I think the implication in that scene is to show that even though Bruce Wayne is "dead", Batman (likely Bruce under the mask) still lives and criminals still fear him, despite what they say.
So I know the PC version is jank but it's literally tanking constantly on my 970 and i5 4690k.
Any ideas? My drivers are all updated. Other gameplay captures I see have it running better than this. It got really bad when the first batmobile section started. Deep fps drops and stuttering.
So I know the PC version is jank but it's literally tanking constantly on my 970 and i5 4690k.
Any ideas? My drivers are all updated. Other gameplay captures I see have it running better than this. It got really bad when the first batmobile section started. Deep fps drops and stuttering.
So all I have to do is to get all the Riddler stuff now. 90 more things to go !
Platinum trophy is going to be a pain I think though
Oh and the boss fight when you complete all the militia mission, obviously spoilers :
MOST UNDERWHELMING BOSS FIGHT EVER.
Seriously. I'd have been fine with a tank segment and THEN an epic mano a mano fight between Deathstroke and Batman. But noooo. A few hits from the fully upgraded batmobile, the end :/
So all I have to do is to get all the Riddler stuff now. 90 more things to go !
Platinum trophy is going to be a pain I think though
Oh and the boss fight when you complete all the militia mission, obviously spoilers :
MOST UNDERWHELMING BOSS FIGHT EVER.
Seriously. I'd have been fine with a tank segment and THEN an epic mano a mano fight between Deathstroke and Batman. But noooo. A few hits from the fully upgraded batmobile, the end :/
