Batman got the Arkham love, what about the Man of Steel...?
- Thread starter raviolico
- Start date
Seeing as how Rocksteadys entire Arkham pitch was "your licensed games are shit, you should feel bad" it's not impossible.
Samir Sedlar
Member
So I wasn't the only one.
voodoopanda
Member
I think its interesting in terms of what kinds of stories video games can tell. So many narrative games are ultimately about beating people up, whether with fists or guns or anything inbetween. The story has to be told around that. Superman makes that aspect trivial for the most part, and his stories are usually at their best when they're about things he can't just solve with his fists. But it can be really hard to portray that in game-language without getting super unconventional or taking the game aspect down a little like in a point & click adventure.
Batman is the opposite, his taking people down is a game in the comics themselves, with his gadgets and his needing to prepare for fights. Batman isn't super powerful so he has to be a detective and explore and figure things out and sneak around. All things that fit the game-language really well. Superman sees through walls and bullets bounce off his chest so his stories don't mesh as well.
Unless you just make a game about Superman punching lots of dudes/robots/aliens/gods.
Batman is the opposite, his taking people down is a game in the comics themselves, with his gadgets and his needing to prepare for fights. Batman isn't super powerful so he has to be a detective and explore and figure things out and sneak around. All things that fit the game-language really well. Superman sees through walls and bullets bounce off his chest so his stories don't mesh as well.
Unless you just make a game about Superman punching lots of dudes/robots/aliens/gods.
dirtywhirlwind
Member
This.
I've done a lot of research on this and my only conclusion was that the only way a Superman game would work would be if it was a point and click adventure.
Preferably with a flying mini game taken from Superman Returns: The Video Game.
Alex Connolly
Member
While I still think Dredd deserves the Arkham treatment more than any other comic franchise, Superman would need a much bigger playground.
High concept intergalactic gear. Hurling gas giants.
Now, back to Dredd.
High concept intergalactic gear. Hurling gas giants.
Now, back to Dredd.
Whatever happened to that one superman game? I remember watching footage of supes fighting doomsday and it looked fucking awesome.
A superman game can work, the problem is that people can't come up with good enemies and it always ends up being stupid generic robots.
A Dredd game probably isn't even very profitable, atleast not in publishers eye. Superman however? Can be extremely profitable. As would Avengers/Iron Man, like that first person one that got scrapped. The problem is the games that look good get canned and they end up coming out with shitty fucking tie-in games.
A superman game can work, the problem is that people can't come up with good enemies and it always ends up being stupid generic robots.
You just want a Dredd game because the reboot was basically a live action video game.
A Dredd game probably isn't even very profitable, atleast not in publishers eye. Superman however? Can be extremely profitable. As would Avengers/Iron Man, like that first person one that got scrapped. The problem is the games that look good get canned and they end up coming out with shitty fucking tie-in games.
dead monkey uk
Member
That is a great idea
Never liked the thought of a Superman game. How would you power up from a starting position in any meaningful way. Batman is vulnerable in away Superman is not.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
Do you really want to have other one like this
thomasmahler
Moon Studios
Yeah, I think the issue with Superman is that Superman as a story is rarely about resolving a conflict through action, cause once it's on for Superman, everything is being dealt with fairly quickly.
Superman works in the conflict of Clark Kent trying to be a normal person while also dealing with his secret identity. And making a game that doesn't even concern itself with that conflict wouldn't be a game that fans would respect.
I do think that you could make a God of War'ish game where Superman just punches millions of bad guys and still make it kinda fun (just like lots of those Call of Duty clones are 'kinda fun'), but would anyone really want to play that? At the same time, I could _easily_ imagine a game in the style of the old Monkey Island / Indiana Jones, etc. games revolving around the conflict of Clark Kent trying to keep his secret identity a secret. Witty dialog trees as Clark Kent inside the Daily Planet where you could even use your super skills to 'play detective', etc.
Anyway, it's definitely not the easiest IP to make an interesting game with that fans wouldn't shit all over.
Alex Connolly
Member
No, I want a Dredd game because the franchise, of which I've been a long-time fan of, deserves the proper treatment. A rich backdrop, plenty of variety and nothing akin to constraining a main character into mechanic shoes an omnipotent immortal otherwise wouldn't be in.
Unless you aim for something beyond the normal rock 'em sock 'em gear that a Superman game would inevitably be, I don't think it'd do the character justice.
Do you really want to have other one like this
Now lets pull out the decades long list of shit Batman games....
Isn't Saints Row 4 going to allow you to fly around and have super powers?
I can see a Superman sandbox game working if this plays out well.
The only thing is you would have to make all of the enemies incredibly tough, with like kryptonite powers or something. Because Superman taking down the average street thug would be so boring.
I never played the Prototype or Infamous games but wouldn't those be kind of similar to how you would handle a Superman game? Did they raise the stakes with the enemy encounters in such a way that was challenging despite your crazy powers?
I can see a Superman sandbox game working if this plays out well.
The only thing is you would have to make all of the enemies incredibly tough, with like kryptonite powers or something. Because Superman taking down the average street thug would be so boring.
I never played the Prototype or Infamous games but wouldn't those be kind of similar to how you would handle a Superman game? Did they raise the stakes with the enemy encounters in such a way that was challenging despite your crazy powers?
Zen_Arcade
Banned
I'd play a Asura's Wrath-esque Superman game.
TDLink
Member
I think the big thing holding a Superman game back is the game world. Due to Superman's speed and/or flight a large game world is necessary. I don't think people would be satisfied flying around a GTA/Arkham-sized Metropolis. People want to fly around the Earth or to the Fortress of Solitude, or even space. How do you make game worlds that big without exponentially increasing the cost of the game?
I can really only think of a couple. Because really, there isnt a decades long shit list of them.
&
These are the primary guilty parties.
I never heard anything about Rise of Sin Tzu or Vengeance....
shaowebb
Member
Superman presents quite a few problems in his game design.
He's tricky to say the least. Personally, I'd setup the intro with a kryptonite bullet shooting him and severely injuring him so that I can make it so he could only glide for short distances like in Prototype. It'd also give me more leeway in setting up enemies that could really wear him down. I could add huge startup and cooldown to his heat vision due to him being injured as well. Also that move cannot function like a gun IMO. It needs to progressively do damage to enemies like slowly heating up a teakettle takes time. This would prevent abuseable zoning but allow for stuff like in Bionic Commando where you use the environment by say cutting down a billboard and then catching it to throw.
His enemy would have to encompass a whole city and be something believable enough to present out in the open brawl opportunities to you constantly. For this you have to turn the city into a warzone. This means likely Brainiac with an army of machines, or some viallin releasing all the Powered villains from prison into the city as a distraction to allow them to setup for something major (which doesn't exactly provide more than one guy at a time to fight unless they get backup troops somehow that are tough.), or Aliens/monsters.
Superman could use his super senses as an excuse for Radar and for how he gets his missions and his telescopic/xray eyes and senses can be used Prototype style for stealth and to gather intel to help him piece together how to find and stop what is going on.
The story needed to pull off all these elements would be very delicate. Its a house of cards and one push too hard could make Superman come across as weak, out of character, or boring. Its tough. The gameplay needs to have lots of over the top scale to its action. Lots of worms eye view camera pans to giant enemies or far off targets you can jump to in a single bound or target and bullet fly at/throw attacks at.
Lots of picking up the environment and cutting apart terrain is needed too.
Its got a ton of gameplay, but flight will either need to invent some kind of smooth sky target lock system so that it doesnt' turn into a camera clusterfuck or it will need nerfed into a glide or dash mechanic to contain it. Plus you HAVE to somehow deal with his nigh invulnerable nature and his strength being so ridiculously powerful in enemy design. So much to do...so much to have to reinvent, and sooooooo difficult to write reasons for everything.
Its possible, but it'd have to be a companies biggest project. It'd take years and a lot of money which is something most people never throw at this license.
- You have to make him feel strong. To do this it is hard to create enemies for him. Likely you resort to aliens, monsters or machines because you can't just make grunts like in Batman because they would ruin the immersion if they didn't go down in a single hit.
- He is nigh invulnerable. If you dont have this feeling of being sturdy and taking a lot of damage and shrugging it off in Manly ways then you don't feel like Superman. This presents a problem with how you go about creating threats that feel believable to his character and yet are challenging without being game breaking. To hurt him you generally have to resort to Kryptonite or magic and having everything contain one or the other is a bit forced...it would take a really really really good plot device to stitch this up adequately without coming across as contrived.
- He flies. This is likely the biggest problem strangely. A melee character with laser eyes who flies has yet to really have a combat style that works. First off if the levels are too small you dont feel any real sense of wonder from his flight as you should. You'd need to be Just Cause 2 size or bigger. Second of all when you have a 3D action title and your main character can just fly the hell away how do you control story progression or ever really threaten them when they can just leave or skip to other areas? It often gets settled Spiderman style with objective points everywhere. It also presents problems in combat when he is best know for three things which are namely laser eyes, bashing things and flying tackles that dash in and out of crowds of enemies. Do you put enemies in the air to add excitement to flight? Do you give him an aiming system like Dark Void or Bionic Commando for laser eyes during flight or to target for tackles? Its difficult
- Laser Eyes...how do you get players to not use them constantly and turn this into a shooter? Superman was all about the smashing and strength, but giving such a character a projectile in a game makes it difficult to design enemies.
He's tricky to say the least. Personally, I'd setup the intro with a kryptonite bullet shooting him and severely injuring him so that I can make it so he could only glide for short distances like in Prototype. It'd also give me more leeway in setting up enemies that could really wear him down. I could add huge startup and cooldown to his heat vision due to him being injured as well. Also that move cannot function like a gun IMO. It needs to progressively do damage to enemies like slowly heating up a teakettle takes time. This would prevent abuseable zoning but allow for stuff like in Bionic Commando where you use the environment by say cutting down a billboard and then catching it to throw.
His enemy would have to encompass a whole city and be something believable enough to present out in the open brawl opportunities to you constantly. For this you have to turn the city into a warzone. This means likely Brainiac with an army of machines, or some viallin releasing all the Powered villains from prison into the city as a distraction to allow them to setup for something major (which doesn't exactly provide more than one guy at a time to fight unless they get backup troops somehow that are tough.), or Aliens/monsters.
Superman could use his super senses as an excuse for Radar and for how he gets his missions and his telescopic/xray eyes and senses can be used Prototype style for stealth and to gather intel to help him piece together how to find and stop what is going on.
The story needed to pull off all these elements would be very delicate. Its a house of cards and one push too hard could make Superman come across as weak, out of character, or boring. Its tough. The gameplay needs to have lots of over the top scale to its action. Lots of worms eye view camera pans to giant enemies or far off targets you can jump to in a single bound or target and bullet fly at/throw attacks at.
Lots of picking up the environment and cutting apart terrain is needed too.
Its got a ton of gameplay, but flight will either need to invent some kind of smooth sky target lock system so that it doesnt' turn into a camera clusterfuck or it will need nerfed into a glide or dash mechanic to contain it. Plus you HAVE to somehow deal with his nigh invulnerable nature and his strength being so ridiculously powerful in enemy design. So much to do...so much to have to reinvent, and sooooooo difficult to write reasons for everything.
Its possible, but it'd have to be a companies biggest project. It'd take years and a lot of money which is something most people never throw at this license.
You can have mini cities/sections where when you want to leave you fly to the sky where it's a hub, similar to Zelda SS.
TDLink
Member
I hadn't thought of that, and could actually see it working. So you get slower flight in the cities and then fast flight in the sky. Great idea! I still see building multiple cities to be somewhat cost prohibitive (no matter what you still can't miniaturize Metropolis even if the other game areas are smaller) but this solution could get us a little bit closer.
LiveFromKyoto
Member
The lamest excuse after 'Superman is too powerful'.
You need to read more.
Superman is always getting beaten up by supervillains.
There is no reason you couldn't make a decent brawler.
Superman is all about saving the people right? So make a dynamic city with alternating paths for quests. Yeah you can save the girl from falling or put out the burning building but you miss out on thrives stealing shit for Lex or busting a gathering of criminals plotting on terror strikes in Metropolis.
Superman is a little cunt.
He is a mummy whipped cow licker.
Lex has 100 times the personality and was driven to madness by Superman's underhanded manipulation.
Plus Batman would beat him in 1v1 for free.
(Frankly most people don't give two fucks about him in this day and age because Batman is 100000 times more hype.)
He is a mummy whipped cow licker.
Lex has 100 times the personality and was driven to madness by Superman's underhanded manipulation.
Plus Batman would beat him in 1v1 for free.
(Frankly most people don't give two fucks about him in this day and age because Batman is 100000 times more hype.)
Beaniedude
Member
Guys, I got it.
Superman's Tiny Titans.
You play a Tiny Titan version of Superman where you waltz around the 2D world rescuing cats and buy icecreams for toddlers.
There can be evil baddies in stripy pajamas robbing banks with bags embroided with dollar signs that you have to POW up and have them escorted off screen by the proper authorities!
Superman wouldn't have any health, kinda like in Epic Yarn. It'll be great!
Maybe you have to collect cakes or something to hold a surprise birthday party for Super Boy.
This stuff is GOLD! Fund it!
Superman's Tiny Titans.
You play a Tiny Titan version of Superman where you waltz around the 2D world rescuing cats and buy icecreams for toddlers.
There can be evil baddies in stripy pajamas robbing banks with bags embroided with dollar signs that you have to POW up and have them escorted off screen by the proper authorities!
Superman wouldn't have any health, kinda like in Epic Yarn. It'll be great!
Maybe you have to collect cakes or something to hold a surprise birthday party for Super Boy.
This stuff is GOLD! Fund it!
Maxwood
Oh rock of ages, do not crumble, love is breathing still. Oh lady moon shine down, a little people magic if you will.
I like you.
Wow, this mus be the worst gaming deal EVER. And I don't even like Zelda games.
Having some "superman has been weakened!" plot device would be stupid.
Just make Superman: Apokolips
The Entire Justice League has been captured by Darkseid and crew. You play as Superman as he breaks out and attempts to rescue his comrades. There are enough super-beings and gods on the planet to let you go all out with Superman's powers.
Just make Superman: Apokolips
The Entire Justice League has been captured by Darkseid and crew. You play as Superman as he breaks out and attempts to rescue his comrades. There are enough super-beings and gods on the planet to let you go all out with Superman's powers.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
I dont bother myself with such boring characters.
WAR recon zero
Banned
Make it an origin story and make him underpowered
Bam
Bam
1. Focus on the challenges of saving people in many different ways, e.g stop a plane crash in time, catching criminals etc rather than focus "too" much on superman's enemies.
2. Make sure the character is likeable yet unique compared to previous Supermans's, I personally like the Superman from "Lois & Clark: The New Adventures of Superman"
3. Also a nice focus on Clark's life would be fun, give us a few clumsy sidequests with reporting and Louis, and maybe a bit of detective work for the main story whatever that will be.
4. Make the story actually interesting that's not like a typical generic hollywood action movie.
5. Base the flying controls sort of similar to a harrier jet, it can hover, fly fast etc and then make the right adjustments to perfect it.
Dammit now I wish I could see this game, thanks a lot!
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
That's what EA did with their Superman Returns game.
I was thinking of maybe a Superman game that was sort of arcadey, with some silly QTE button mashing events. I only ever played the demo for Asura's Wrath, but maybe something similar where you have these large scale events happening like a massive asteroid hurtling towards Earth and Supes has to fly out to it and smash it to smithereens,as the player is pounding on the "X" button for a high score/more destruction.
A mission based game but broken up with those over the top moments.
Superman already has flash comics.
Allforce
Member
Someone mentioned a Justice League game, which could present an interesting type of Superman sequence or sequences instead of a full blown 10 hour Superman brawler game.
Basically have some plot development deal with an invasion of Earth that has to be countered by Supermans immense speed and power. This could be done with a Super Stardust-type structure where instead of random planet and spaceship you're Superman zipping around Earth at breakneck speed and stopping wave after wave of attack.
Expanding the graphics and effects of that type of dual stick shooter could be amazing and you get "Superman is fucking powerful as hell" gameplay in a shorter burst, albeit a totally different genre of gameplay.
Basically have some plot development deal with an invasion of Earth that has to be countered by Supermans immense speed and power. This could be done with a Super Stardust-type structure where instead of random planet and spaceship you're Superman zipping around Earth at breakneck speed and stopping wave after wave of attack.
Expanding the graphics and effects of that type of dual stick shooter could be amazing and you get "Superman is fucking powerful as hell" gameplay in a shorter burst, albeit a totally different genre of gameplay.
FaustsBoon
Member
I feel really torn on "Superman done right" as a bit of video-game theory-craft.
On the one hand, there are teams who have had brief flashes of what I think a Supes game would need to feel like. There are absolutely moments in Warhammer 40k: Space Marine where I just feel so "substantial", powerful, etc... and that is absolutely a piece of the equation.
That said, you can't capture some of the aspects which make Superman timeless. A big part of the character is the fact that it is an immigrant story (as it was literally considered such by the original creators). How does one, aside from narrative, capture those sorts of things in a game? How do you create the aura of the guy who all the OTHER superheroes look up to?
I feel like the best efforts would still rely on a mountain of set-pieces, and then try to ham-fist in some poignant narrative.
On the one hand, there are teams who have had brief flashes of what I think a Supes game would need to feel like. There are absolutely moments in Warhammer 40k: Space Marine where I just feel so "substantial", powerful, etc... and that is absolutely a piece of the equation.
That said, you can't capture some of the aspects which make Superman timeless. A big part of the character is the fact that it is an immigrant story (as it was literally considered such by the original creators). How does one, aside from narrative, capture those sorts of things in a game? How do you create the aura of the guy who all the OTHER superheroes look up to?
I feel like the best efforts would still rely on a mountain of set-pieces, and then try to ham-fist in some poignant narrative.
efyu_lemonardo
May I have a cookie?
We've had this thread before, and the bottom line is always the same: given the proper resources and talented developer it is completely possible to make a great game that is true to Superman .
Rocksteady would be more than capable of pulling it off.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Anyone else think All-Star Superman would be a fantastic jumping off point...? No? I'll get me coat...