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Batman R.I.P.: an Official Thread for Speculation, Discussion, and "OMGWTF" Hysteria.

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B

BenjaminBirdie

Banned
Blader5489 said:
For me, it's not so much that nothing is happening, but rather that nothing cohesive is happening. What's the plot of Final Crisis? Two issues in, and there are so many random and different subplots and characters moving in different directions that it's impossible to tell what's actually going on.
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Evil is winning.
 
P

Penguin

Member
Blader5489 said:
For me, it's not so much that nothing is happening, but rather that nothing cohesive is happening. What's the plot of Final Crisis? Two issues in, and there are so many random and different subplots and characters moving in different directions that it's impossible to tell what's actually going on.
Click to expand...

I thought we kind of just had the build up.
One Secret Society being formed while New Gods inhabitant the Earth. And really the heroes are at a loss and being picked off slowly.

There are a ton of elements being introduced that I am sure will play out in the next 5 issues and the whole month of August which is dedicated to the time between 3 and 4.
 
P

Prime crotch

Banned
Blader5489 said:
For me, it's not so much that nothing is happening, but rather that nothing cohesive is happening. What's the plot of Final Crisis? Two issues in, and there are so many random and different subplots and characters moving in different directions that it's impossible to tell what's actually going on.
Click to expand...
See I think people are just seeing the pretty pictures instead of reading the story. Some plot points are still mysterious but that's intended, but you can't say you have read the books and still have no idea what's going on, specially the second issue.
 
B

bob_arctor

Tough_Smooth
Prime crotch said:
See I think people are just seeing the pretty pictures instead of reading the story. Some plot points are still mysterious but that's intended, but you can't say you have read the books and still have no idea what's going on, specially the second issue.
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Exactly. I have no fucking clue who those Japanese super heroes are but I can easily tell that Sonny Sumo is a complete badass who is being recruited by Mr. Miracle for the coming battle. I also assume that the aforementioned trendy heroes will be tested and will prove themselves as Rising Sun's accusatory spiel alluded to. That is, considering the circumstances, greatness will be thrust upon them. They, or unknown heroes like them not yet revealed, will become a huge part of the resistance since the old guard is in the process of being subjugated.
 
B

Blader

Member
Prime crotch said:
See I think people are just seeing the pretty pictures instead of reading the story. Some plot points are still mysterious but that's intended, but you can't say you have read the books and still have no idea what's going on, specially the second issue.
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No, trust me, I'm reading the story.

For comparison's sake, look at Secret Invasion. From the first issue, you know that the general story is about Skrulls revealing themselves, taking over the world, and the heroes just being fucked in general. Then look at Final Crisis: plenty of things are happening, but nothing cohesive; there isn't a general plot driving things, at least not yet. We know that FC has to do with Darkseid taking over the earth and remaking it into the Fifth World or something like that, but we only know that because of what Morrison has said in interviews and at convention panels. If you look at just the first two issues of FC, there's absolutely no way to discern what's going on and what the direction of this story is, other than "evil is winning" (thanks for clearing that up Birdie).

I'm sure it'll all make sense by December, but as of now, FC just makes for a frustrating read.
 
P

Prime crotch

Banned
Blader5489 said:
No, trust me, I'm reading the story.

For comparison's sake, look at Secret Invasion. From the first issue, you know that the general story is about Skrulls revealing themselves, taking over the world, and the heroes just being fucked in general.
Click to expand...
No you're not reading into it, the second issue clearly states what's going on, you can see the wheels turn and the events that will encompass it.
You know that the Gods from Apokolips won a war against the good guys, you know they're taking over people's roles and bodies, you know that the forces of good are fucked when you see Miracle Man resorting to those wannabe Japanese super-heroes, seriously they will be part of the team Sonny will create. Need I go on? Batman's fucked, Sup's fucked, Hal's fucked, Stewart was already fucked, Turpin's fucked, Libra's true agenda is unkown and there's a whole lot of foreboding that he wants more than loyalty, a Monitor was banished into Earth and is probably trying to find his own "Chocolate Egg Cream" word and God knows what else.
It's a lot, I'll give you that, but it's incredibly well exposed and written. It's changing the DC Universe and like all Morrison's events it will gain further depthness when it's all said and done.
 
B

BenjaminBirdie

Banned
Blader5489 said:
No, trust me, I'm reading the story.

For comparison's sake, look at Secret Invasion. From the first issue, you know that the general story is about Skrulls revealing themselves, taking over the world, and the heroes just being fucked in general. Then look at Final Crisis: plenty of things are happening, but nothing cohesive; there isn't a general plot driving things, at least not yet. We know that FC has to do with Darkseid taking over the earth and remaking it into the Fifth World or something like that, but we only know that because of what Morrison has said in interviews and at convention panels. If you look at just the first two issues of FC, there's absolutely no way to discern what's going on and what the direction of this story is, other than "evil is winning" (thanks for clearing that up Birdie).

I'm sure it'll all make sense by December, but as of now, FC just makes for a frustrating read.
Click to expand...

I don't think you want to make that comparison, considering about two hours have passed between issues 1 and 3. If nothing's happening in FC, SI is causing things that have happened to unhappen.

But I do think FC is clear in what's going on. Evil is infiltrating many areas. Kids, superheroes, etc.
 
M

Mercury Fred

Banned
Blader5489 said:
No, trust me, I'm reading the story.

For comparison's sake, look at Secret Invasion. From the first issue, you know that the general story is about Skrulls revealing themselves, taking over the world, and the heroes just being fucked in general. Then look at Final Crisis: plenty of things are happening, but nothing cohesive; there isn't a general plot driving things, at least not yet. We know that FC has to do with Darkseid taking over the earth and remaking it into the Fifth World or something like that, but we only know that because of what Morrison has said in interviews and at convention panels. If you look at just the first two issues of FC, there's absolutely no way to discern what's going on and what the direction of this story is, other than "evil is winning" (thanks for clearing that up Birdie).

I'm sure it'll all make sense by December, but as of now, FC just makes for a frustrating read.
Click to expand...
Secret Invasion is more like a TV show whereas Final Crisis is more like a good film. When you sit down in a movie theater, you may not know what's going on for a while. Who's this? What's she doing there? Wait, what just happened? These questions inevitably get answered as the film rolls on. I applaud Morrison for not spoonfeeding this story. Comics need Morrison and other writers that are willing to elevate, expand and problematize the medium.
 
B

bob_arctor

Tough_Smooth
BenjaminBirdie said:
But I do think FC is clear in what's going on. Evil is infiltrating many areas. Kids, superheroes, etc.
Click to expand...

Cosmic battle between Gods. Evil won. Evil set up shop on Earth. Gonna take it over. Picking off the vanguard. Good gods in hiding. Recruiting. A storm's coming. A really big one.

Heroes seem fucked in general.
 
T

Tamanon

Banned
Now the real question is....who Libra works for:p

"I balance the scales".....so if evil wins.....he'll help the good guys?:p
 
B

bob_arctor

Tough_Smooth
Tamanon said:
Now the real question is....who Libra works for:p

"I balance the scales".....so if evil wins.....he'll help the good guys?:p
Click to expand...

Ah. Interesting. If this is the case, maybe he's currently wiping out the old guard to pave the way for new jacks like the Japanese crews. Balancing the scales meaning the old guard has dominated universe-saving for too long. Or something.
 
B

BenjaminBirdie

Banned
bob_arctor said:
Ah. Interesting. If this is the case, maybe he's currently wiping out the old guard to pave the way for new jacks like the Japanese crews. Balancing the scales meaning the old guard has dominated universe-saving for too long. Or something.
Click to expand...

Super Young Team are indeed a very interesting element when you consider the whole idea of "New Gods" and the old being replaced by the new. Which is sort of what was at least implied by some of Infinite Crisis. It kind of fell apart by the end, but recall the original #1 had Supes and Connor, Bats and Nightwing, and WW and Donna Troy featured prominently on the cover.

But I suspect it's going to be much more widescale than just heroes and their sidekicks.
 
L

LiveFromKyoto

Member
Blader5489 said:
No, trust me, I'm reading the story.

For comparison's sake, look at Secret Invasion. From the first issue, you know that the general story is about Skrulls revealing themselves, taking over the world, and the heroes just being fucked in general. Then look at Final Crisis: plenty of things are happening, but nothing cohesive; there isn't a general plot driving things, at least not yet. We know that FC has to do with Darkseid taking over the earth and remaking it into the Fifth World or something like that, but we only know that because of what Morrison has said in interviews and at convention panels. If you look at just the first two issues of FC, there's absolutely no way to discern what's going on and what the direction of this story is, other than "evil is winning" (thanks for clearing that up Birdie).

I'm sure it'll all make sense by December, but as of now, FC just makes for a frustrating read.
Click to expand...

The world's a mess because the evil gods won and Libra's recruiting the villains in the name of Darkseid to kill everybody. I'm sorry if that's over your head, but stop blaming the book for being written above the level of a Die Hard movie like that's a fault.

Sorry if that sounds harsh, but everybody else here seems to be able to understand it, it's seriously just you.
 
B

BenjaminBirdie

Banned
LiveFromKyoto said:
The world's a mess because the evil gods won and Libra's recruiting the villains in the name of Darkseid to kill everybody. I'm sorry if that's over your head, but stop blaming the book for being written above the level of a Die Hard movie like that's a fault.

Sorry if that sounds harsh, but everybody else here seems to be able to understand it, it's seriously just you.
Click to expand...

To be fair, it's also like an entire nation of Newsarama and scans_daily users.
 
K

krypt0nian

Banned
BenjaminBirdie said:
To be fair, it's also like an entire nation of Newsarama and scans_daily users.
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That's like saying the World of Warcraft General board doesn't understand something though.

It's probably for the best.
 
B

BenjaminBirdie

Banned
krypt0nian said:
That's like saying the World of Warcraft General board doesn't understand something though.

It's probably for the best.
Click to expand...

Well, I didn't want to say it but, yes, exactly. There was a delightful post on a blog somewheres disparaging the blogosphere for being snooty about the people who aren't feeling FC, and then said blogosphere refuted said hypothesis pretty succinctly, but I forget where it happened. Anyway. It's kind of an ongoing struggle.

Those who get and enjoy Final Crisis and don't understand how people aren't getting it.
Those who don't get and/or enjoy Final Crisis and don't understand how those people don't understand.

It's all very complicated and, ironically enough, hard to follow.
 
V

Vyer

Member
Blader5489 said:
For comparison's sake, look at Secret Invasion. From the first issue, you know that the general story is about Skrulls revealing themselves, taking over the world, and the heroes just being fucked in general. .
Click to expand...

Simpler doesn't always mean better.
 
B

Blader

Member
LiveFromKyoto said:
The world's a mess because the evil gods won and Libra's recruiting the villains in the name of Darkseid to kill everybody. I'm sorry if that's over your head, but stop blaming the book for being written above the level of a Die Hard movie like that's a fault.

Sorry if that sounds harsh, but everybody else here seems to be able to understand it, it's seriously just you.
Click to expand...

It's not over my head, it's just that Morrison does a poor job at making the plot of FC clear at all.

The reason others here are able to understand it is because they'll defend anything Morrison does, no matter what.

And re: this "war in heaven where evil won"...when did this happen? Because I remember that was referenced way back in Seven Soldiers, so I know it wasn't recent.
 
V

Vyer

Member
Blader5489 said:
The reason others here are able to understand it is because they'll defend anything Morrison does, no matter what.
.
Click to expand...

It's really inconceivable to you that people are enjoying a story without having to pull out the 'fanboy' card?

Jesus Christ.
 
P

Prime crotch

Banned
Blader5489 said:
It's not over my head, it's just that Morrison does a poor job at making the plot of FC clear at all.

The reason others here are able to understand it is because they'll defend anything Morrison does, no matter what.
Click to expand...
The character's tell you there has been a Cosmic War, you see a God dying, there's a pretty damn obvious apocalyptic forebonding, what do you want more? Evil monologues detailing their plans?
And how is the fact I'm able to understand a book by reading related to defending Morrison's work? Are you implying that I only understood it because I wanted to defend it?
 
B

BenjaminBirdie

Banned
Blader5489 said:
It's not over my head, it's just that Morrison does a poor job at making the plot of FC clear at all.

The reason others here are able to understand it is because they'll defend anything Morrison does, no matter what.

And re: this "war in heaven where evil won"...when did this happen? Because I remember that was referenced way back in Seven Soldiers, so I know it wasn't recent.
Click to expand...

It happened off camera, actually. Pretty cool, huh?

(Note, Death of The New Gods is not, as far as I know, this aforementioned War. Or maybe it is. I don't know. But it doesn't really matter, does it?)
 
B

Blader

Member
Prime crotch said:
The character's tell you there has been a Cosmic War, you see a God dying, there's a pretty damn obvious apocalyptic forebonding, what do you want more? Evil monologues detailing their plans?
Click to expand...

No, I want some kind of weight attached to it. Like I said before, I don't anything about that cosmic war and I know very little about the New Gods, so for me there's no real emotional weight to any of that. Truthfully, I find Libra and his villain society a lot more threatening because Morrison really gives him this badass feel and he's pulled off a lot of cool shit already. Whereas with Darkseid, and the Fourth/Fifth World business, and the New Gods, I'm a lot more apathetic because Morrison hasn't really done anything to establish what makes them so important or foreboding.

If he actually stuck to what he advertised--a group of Galactus-level beings just devastating Earth and crushing the heroes--then I'd probably be a little more interested in it. But as of now, I have more of a "who cares?" feeling about it.

Prime crotch said:
And how is the fact I'm able to understand a book by reading related to defending Morrison's work? Are you implying that I only understood it because I wanted to defend it?
Click to expand...

Because if anyone else wrote this story the same way, they would be criticized for being unclear and incoherent. Some people will let Morrison get away with it just because he's Grant Morrison.
 
B

BenjaminBirdie

Banned
Blader5489 said:
No, I want some kind of weight attached to it. Like I said before, I don't anything about that cosmic war and I know very little about the New Gods, so for me there's no real emotional weight to any of that. Truthfully, I find Libra and his villain society a lot more threatening because Morrison really gives him this badass feel and he's pulled off a lot of cool shit already. Whereas with Darkseid, and the Fourth/Fifth World business, and the New Gods, I'm a lot more apathetic because Morrison hasn't really done anything to establish what makes them so important or foreboding.
Click to expand...

He like possessed a room full of little kids and replaced their teeth with like razor fangs.
 
P

Prime crotch

Banned
Blader5489 said:
No, I want some kind of weight attached to it. Like I said before, I don't anything about that cosmic war and I know very little about the New Gods, so for me there's no real emotional weight to any of that. Truthfully, I find Libra and his villain society a lot more threatening because Morrison really gives him this badass feel and he's pulled off a lot of cool shit already. Whereas with Darkseid, and the Fourth/Fifth World business, and the New Gods, I'm a lot more apathetic because Morrison hasn't really done anything to establish what makes them so important or foreboding.
Click to expand...
Kidnapping Batman? Infiltrating into the Alpha Lantern's? Or as a fake benefactor for the people of that destroyed city (whose name I can't pronounce)? Turpin becoming Darkseid and using the Anti-Life equation on a group of children?
Blader5489 said:
If he actually stuck to what he advertised--a group of Galactus-level beings just devastating Earth and crushing the heroes--then I'd probably be a little more interested in it. But as of now, I have more of a "who cares?" feeling about it.
Click to expand...
So you wanted a battle royale but instead got a "talkie".
Blader5489 said:
Because if anyone else wrote this story the same way, they would be criticized for being unclear and incoherent. Some people will let Morrison get away with it just because he's Grant Morrison.
Click to expand...
Well that would be hard now wouldn't it? Since this is Morrison's own writing style and all.
 
D

Darkflight

Member
I agree, but then I need to know this:

When is this set in relation to FC? Morrison's writing both, so they must link somehow.
 
V

Viewt

Member
straydog1980 said:
so what do you guys think about the Detective RIP issue that came out yesterday? What are your thoughts?
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Well, as an RIP tie-in, there's not a whole lot to glean. There are a couple lines that hint at the Black Glove, but other than that, it's a Hush story. Maybe down the line we'll see things cross over more, but so far that doesn't seem to be the case.

That being said, I liked the issue a lot. I've been looking for a good jump-on point for Detective, and I had a good bit of fun reading it. So while it didn't give me a bunch of insight into what's going on in RIP, I wouldn't call it a bad issue by any stretch of the imagination.
 
B

Blader

Member
Aegus said:
Picked up the Batman & Son TPB today (I really enjoyed it). What collected book should be next on my list?
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The Morrison-penned Batman issues are: #655-658, 663-669, 672-678.

Those are the only ones pertinent to RIP.
 
T

Tamanon

Banned
Aegus said:
Picked up the Batman & Son TPB today (I really enjoyed it). What collected book should be next on my list?
Click to expand...

I think the sequel is already out in hardcover, The Resurrection of Ra's Al Ghul.
 
A

Aegus

Member
Tamanon said:
I think the sequel is already out in hardcover, The Resurrection of Ra's Al Ghul.
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That's nice although I'm err rather OCD about stuff matching and a book's height not matching the next in the series would drive me insane. Hell it's annoying me that Batman & Son isn't matching the other Batman books I have. :lol

Guess I'll just wait till the paperback version is out.
 
S

Spike Spiegel

Member
Sixth and final (?!?) issue of "Batman RIP" solicited...

bm_cv681_r1.jpg


BATMAN #681

Written by Grant Morrison
Art by Tony Daniel & Sandu Florea
Cover by Alex Ross
Variant cover by Tony Daniel

This is it – “Batman R.I.P.” concludes here! The final, heartrending confrontation between Bruce Wayne and Jezebel Jet. The final fate of The Dark Knight. And the horrifying and shocking truth behind the Black Glove. With The Joker, the Club of Villains, Robin, Damian, plus an ending you’ll never see coming – this one has it all!

Retailers please note: This issue will ship with two covers. For every 25 copies of the Standard Edition (with a cover by Alex Ross), retailers may order one copy of the Variant Edition (with a cover by Tony Daniel). Please see the Previews Order Form for more information.

On sale October 29 • 40 pg, FC, $3.99 US
Click to expand...
For some reason, I thought this was an 8-parter... o_O
 
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