I'm still confused why people think Doomsday is the big bad? He's throwaway fodder for the Trinity to beat up for a few minutes because obviously that's a bit overkill for Luthor. Luthor is the big bad. He's just not the "toe to toe" big bad. He's the smart one, remember? Smart people don't get into a fist fight with people who can stomp them with zero effort.
Batman v Superman - New Official Trailer
- Thread starter EroticSushi
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Ultron has a Backstory and a relevance to the protagonists.
Depends IMO. He was just teased, not the real main villain of a movie yet. He will get his motivation at least when we reach Infinity War.
Like...?
People are speculating what miniscule entry Aquaman is going to get, probably a side notion or teaser at the end, other than that the movie is already full.
Funny, I saw the exact opposite argument when people were talking about an old Batman. And the thing is, Lex Luthor as I know him, did already build robots even without Superman around. The Lex I like is the Lex that was born at the deep end of the social hierachy. A man that was fighting himself up to the top with his intellect. Not some teenage brat genius. And I don't believe in character development, because I don't believe that Jeese Eisenberg can play anyone else than Jeese Eisernberg.
You know what I dreamed of, when I didn't have wet dreams? I dreamed of a movie called "Luthor" starring Brian Cranston, showing how he managed his childhood, his growing fame and appreciation of others of his abilities. Of him seeing himself as the "Superman" that would elevate mankind until at some point MoS interjects and his downfall begins. Partly due xenophiba, partly due jealousy that they call someone superman who isn't a (hu)man, a title he thought belonged in his hands. This would've been something that DC could've used against Marvel as something fresh. The superheroes from the viewpoint of the villains, characterizing them indirectly and developing and humanizing the villains. Suicide Squad goes partly in that direction, but only partly.
Poodlestrike
Banned
If you expected it how can it be a surprise.
No matter when, why, how the eventual thread appeared, it cannot possibly have surprsed you because you already knew that it was coming.
There is no twist.
velociraptor
Junior Member
That trailer was awful.
My hype for this film has deflated considerably.
My hype for this film has deflated considerably.
BURNING SPIRIT
Banned
Ya DCs Gillian's being so much better is a myth. Besides TDK Joker, Marvel has had much better villains onscreen. Ironically, TDK Joker is 100% exactly what DC fans complain about Marvel baddies - no back story, character development, and is evil just for the sake of being evil. That said he's still my favorite.
Marvel v DC -
BURNING SPIRIT
Banned
He doesn't have a biographical back story,and he shouldn't at this point. He hasn't even been on screen for more than 5 minutes so far. But his motivations are clear and have more buildup behind them then any villian in any comic book movie ever.
I disagree with almost all of this
I think (for me personally) you'd need to go through some of DC's, Raimi's Spider-man and Fox's X-Men films before I'd put a MCU villain on my list.
And you're assessment of The Joker in broad strokes is odd... no back story is part of his story... like I mean there's a point of him giving 3 different versions of it in the movie.
There's actually some character development but it ties into "evil for evil sake" sure, but it motivates him to evolve as a criminal and even more so when he thinks he finds an equal in Batman.
Anyhow, I'd also throw up Nolan's Ra's, Scarecrow and Bane as good villains. Bane gets the short-end of the stick at the end, but the other 2 hours is solid. And Scarecrow I just love because of his little re-occurrence
I mean... I know it's different people...
But I find it funny that folks are like they've seen the entire movie... then make comments like this because really the only response is... wait until you see the movie.
I mean I'm sure the whole Doomsday thing will be more to get Lex over as a villain, but doesn't mean he won't have some form of background
His motivation is what? Because in reality it doesn't amount to much more than "challenge accepted". His entire buildup has been nothing. You're confusing build up with teases. He basically got shit on in GotG and nothing came of it. He just sat there.
1. The extent of Scoot Mcnairy, Jena Malone, and Ray Fisher as Cyborg will be in along with Jason Mamoa's Aquaman
2. How do you know that the Luthor in this movie isn't filled by some of the same motives you presented?
More_Badass
Member
Except here, the villain does have a relevance to the protagonist because it's reverse engineered from the last Kryptonian that Clark himself killed. The sins of his past coming back to kick him in the ass in a very big way
And the other "antagonist" is technically Batman, who is opposed to Clark directly because of the events of Man of Steel
So how can anyone say the villains of this have no backstory, background, or relevance to the protagonist?
This and they havent even seen the movie. I am baffled how people can argue after this trailer like they just came back from the screening.
BURNING SPIRIT
Banned
What was really so bad about Ronan? And how is he any worse than Scarecrow, Bain, Zod? All DCCU has going for it is Joker as far as being elite. Every other villain is pretty much at the same level besides a couple truly throwaway ones (zod,maleketh)
Thanos' personality has been shown to some degree , we've seen how cold he is concerning his daughter, we seen how intimidating he is even over feared conquerers (Ronan cowering in fear as Thanos threatens to "bathe the stars with his blood"),we've seen how he uses others to do his bidding, we've also see how delighted he was when faced with the challenge of earth's mightiest heroes ("to face them is like courting death"...and he smiles!) Thats actually a fair amount of development for 5 minutes screen time
L
Lord Virgin
Unconfirmed Member
Haha....ha. Yeah no, I know when I see a fanboy/troll. I gladly go in discussions with others about this stuff, but not burning my fingers on this one. On the ignore list you go.
BURNING SPIRIT
Banned
I think the problem with MCU is the uneven focus on the heroes over the villains,besides Loki and the Netflix bunch. Xmen and Raimis Spiderman spent just as much time developing both sides. I don't remember Nolan's RA's that vividly, but I don't remember him being much more remarkable than Iron Monger or Roman. Maybe you just prefer the tones of DC movies or are just a diehard? not that there anything wrong with that.But I don't see how you can mention Bane and Scarecrow but not even Loki is worthy of being acknowledge as a good villain. Ronan is definitely better than Bane, who really the only thing he has going for him is that he's the only one who been able to kick Batman's ass in the trilogy.
Its not really my judgement of the Joker. I happen to think that not all villains need to always have a detailed back story and layers and depth whatever. Just like in life some people really are evil to just be evil. To me its more important that the villain have presence,pose a threat and a captivating personality. If they dont have all 3 then they shoudd excel in one of those areas.
I just find it funny that DC fanboys criticism of Marvel villains definitely apply to the best DCCU villain. I'm sure Darkseid won't have much decelopement either but DC fans will still say hes better than any Marvel villain.
BURNING SPIRIT
Banned
Feel free to be a douche,no sweat off my back. Not even a fanboy, I do prefer marvel heroes but love all the comic book films. Even enjoyed Man of Steel. You wont find me saying anything bad about DC films but yeah this incarnation of Lex Luthor and generic Doomsday is not looking too good.
TheWorthyEdge
Member
That was a really weird trailer. I don't even really know what to think.
We have Supes and Bats screaming and fighting each other than 15 seconds and they are cracking jokes and fighting with eah other.
I feel it already, this movie is going to be tone deaf.
We have Supes and Bats screaming and fighting each other than 15 seconds and they are cracking jokes and fighting with eah other.
I feel it already, this movie is going to be tone deaf.
More_Badass
Member
If I had to compare, best Marvel villain was Kilgrave, best DC villain was Joker
Kilgrave was a terrifying presence, with the nonchalant way he treated people as tools to be manipulated
Best MCU-specific villain would be The Winter Soldier during the first half of the movie. He felt like a force to be reckoned with
And Joker has of course been discussed and praised ad nauseam
Kilgrave was a terrifying presence, with the nonchalant way he treated people as tools to be manipulated
Best MCU-specific villain would be The Winter Soldier during the first half of the movie. He felt like a force to be reckoned with
And Joker has of course been discussed and praised ad nauseam
Discotheque
Banned
I would also say kilgrave but dear god Jessica Jones was an incredibly stupid show, it kinda hurt his character for being in it despite how much I enjoyed his scenes
Id probably put fake Mandarin (that Osama bin laden truther twist was hilarious) and Kingpin over him
As for this whole villain feud Id agree that every nolan villain (except for talia), Stryker, magneto and raimi goblin/Ock are better than mcu villains
Mcu villains much like those other films have some awesome actors in their roles. But they usually feel like such misfires to me. Like there's nothing really intimidating, or enigmatic or just exciting about their scenes. I think it's just the way Feige approaches these films. They get the same amount of screentime as bad guys in other movies so it's not that, must be a writing thing
Id probably put fake Mandarin (that Osama bin laden truther twist was hilarious) and Kingpin over him
As for this whole villain feud Id agree that every nolan villain (except for talia), Stryker, magneto and raimi goblin/Ock are better than mcu villains
Mcu villains much like those other films have some awesome actors in their roles. But they usually feel like such misfires to me. Like there's nothing really intimidating, or enigmatic or just exciting about their scenes. I think it's just the way Feige approaches these films. They get the same amount of screentime as bad guys in other movies so it's not that, must be a writing thing
BURNING SPIRIT
Banned
Uhh maybe his motivations are to be in control of the most powerful force in existence? No other comic movie has shown how difficult to achieve such power.Darkseid will be the most powerful dude ever in a span of 2 hours, it's taking Thanos what 4-5 years? That alone will make his real debut that much more effective and meaningful. Hopefully him being in 2 films will allow him to develope more,and if his love affair with Death is in that'll be an extra layer to his story.
DoctorFling
Member
If Doomsday is a clone of Zod, will his weak spot be his neck? Imagine how funny it would be if Kal just kills him the exact same way, I would applaud in the theatre.
More_Badass
Member
Yes, seeing him doing nothing for several movies and getting betrayed by his own underling and each of his plans failing, to the point that he has to do it himself, surely makes for an effective build-up for a formidable villain
Look, I love the MCU movies but they have utterly failed at making Thanos seem like a threat or building him up, to the average watcher who doesn't know about the comics. He's just that purple guy who appears in some post-credit scenes
Dash_Riprock
Member
MCU has shown thus far that Marvel is shit at making good villains. Loki was fluke, brought on more by Hiddleston's performance than any script or director.
I dont want to defend that, but I really think we should wait before Thanos actually does something.
BURNING SPIRIT
Banned
Hey the gems (or stones as they are now known) bring out the power lust in many,it makes sense that he was betrayed it doesn't take away from him. I do not agree with you, he is clearly established as someone very important and his presence has been amazing so far. From being mysterious in Avengers and not saying a word, to his appearance in GOTG as a cold hearted big boss,hes clearly not just some purple guy. Like i said, hes been onscreen for about 5 minutes. What else in that limited time could they have done to make him more effective?
I dont think that he already proofed that he is a big threat, but thats OK Imo. He was never the big villain of the story in the movies he appeared in yet.
But I expect that they will set him up enough in Guardians of th Galaxy 2 or Thor 3 before starting the Infinity War.
Saying that Darkseid is already definitly the bigger threat is stupid nonethless.
WrenchNinja
Member
probably something more than sitting on a chair
1. I expect them too to be small appearances at the end. If not, the movie is really going to be crowded. The good thing about the Avengers was that they didn't have to explain most of them anymore. So I hope they just give a peak in the non-trinity here and then use the upcoming movies to the full extend.
2. I don't know, but I see Jeese Eisenberg.
I so do hope they get him right when they use him. I want WB to not show him at all and let his generals speak for him first.
Also lots of chuckle when we talk about Thanos and Darkseid and sitting on chairs.
Darkseid does this very often for some reason.
BURNING SPIRIT
Banned
LOL. I could be a hater too and say the same about TDK Joker. But I give credit where credits due.
BURNING SPIRIT
Banned
Next time he's on screen, I guarantee he will be viciously offing someone...and his real debut as a main villain probably won't even come for 2 more films after that. He is definitely being built up Better than anyone ever.
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
Haha that will be great. I will applaud it too
More_Badass
Member
Better than, say the build-up to Voldemort throughout the Harry Potter movies?
I think it's kind of hard to say "better than anyone ever" when Marvel is currently the only example of a shared superhero universe building towards a big villain
Dash_Riprock
Member
TDK Joker is also overrated as all hell.
Well I'm bias, and it only took two movies
But the "build up" for the Joker at the end of Batman Begins and TDK was great.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwkgVMb-bV0
Build up is very far fetched for this, tbh.
More_Badass
Member
...How so? What was far-fetched about this?
They hinted at a villain for a future movie... and then delivered him in the next... sounds like a build-up to me.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
Of course Thanos will do something strong and badass but let's not kid ourselves he's going to get beat in the dumbest way possible.
Poodlestrike
Banned
What even IS this thread, really.
You're in luck today, NeoGAF, because EXCLUSIVELY for you I have used my INSIDER CONNECTIONS to procure a TOTALLY REAL leaked storyboard for the end of Infinity War:
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
Its more like a tease than a build up
I demand "Konk that kook" be spoken by Trish come Jessica Jones Season 2.What even IS this thread, really.
You're in luck today, NeoGAF, because EXCLUSIVELY for you I have used my INSIDER CONNECTIONS to procure a TOTALLY REAL leaked storyboard for the end of Infinity War:
That and "Cheese and crackers!" as some kind of expletive.
bryanee
Member
Showing a card with a Joker on it is not buidling up a character.
Yes, I know how the card was meant, Ive read Year One, too, but building up a character is for me when he actually does something and not throws a card away offscreen.
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