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Lord Virgin
Unconfirmed Member
Correct me if I'm wrong, but iirc that shot is a bit longer (and more zoomed out I think?) in the UC. Could just be me, have to rewatch it.
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Batman v Superman Ultimate Cut |OT| - Men are still good (out now)
- Thread starter Ahasverus
- Start date
Snyder said that Superman would have made the League almost redundant as its members have all more or less one of his powers, in other words, Superman is the catalyst for the league.
Last Hearth
Member
They did it because Snyder wanted to recreate the shot from the Dark Knight Returns.
That's problem my main complaint with the movie, they first decided which shots they wants to visually present, then wrote the script in such a way as to make it happen.
He appropriates those images. A lot of his references as superficial in that way. Like, the sniper rifle scene, where the whole point was that in The Dark Knight Returns it looks like Batman is going to kill, and he doesn't. The film does that, then has him drive through the fiery wreckage of what was once a person, which renders that prior moment pointless.
I wouldn't be surprised if the only reason he
killed Superman is to get the iconic black and white casket on the big screen
esmith08734
Member
Damn, I want to watch this now but I don't have my Xbox One here and my Mac doesn't have HDMI. How should I do this?
Lokimaru
Member
Superman was in Agony after some of those shots from Batman. Keep in mind that once again like with Zod this is an untrained dude going up against a highly trained combatant but this time unlike with the previous fight he didn't have his abilities to help even the odds. Batman stomped him both figuratively and literally.
Watched this with spouse and a friend two days ago. Never saw the original version(we watched the director's cut version), but none us liked it much. Not even the worse thing I've seen this week(sat through a damn Breen movie also), but I wouldn't call it good either.
Also, I was surprised to see that the Cyborg JLA teaser was the best of the bunch.
Also, I was surprised to see that the Cyborg JLA teaser was the best of the bunch.
Interesting.
That is a very weird comparison, it basically just boils down to Clark crying/screaming and that is it.
MegaManTrigger
Banned
So it would have been redundant to create a Justice League because of Superman's powers, but yet the Justice League is still created anyways? It's almost as if Snyder forgot about other reasons such as tactics that Superman could find a use for the JL (Evacuating Civilians, more bodies to take out large crowds etc), or maybe heroes join together to stop a common threat like how it was done in the animated series.
The Wayne Parallel is reaching. If Batman lost faith in humanity, then why would he become Batman and deal with the crime and corruption within Gotham City? The interpretation seems to want to paint Bruce as a nihilist, when he hasn't really reached that point yet. The same with the birth of Superman, it's just both of them screaming...
the reason the Justice League is created is because it's the next movie
MegaManTrigger
Banned
Obviously, but Snyder saying that about Superman's powers really makes me question whether he even understands Superman and the Justice League. It seems like he thinks only Superman could be a leader, and thus threw it out because it didn't make sense. But by thinking like that, and publicly making that statement, he's opening himself up to silly contradictions: What's the point of having more than one metahuman then? Aren't they all superpowerful in his eyes then? Why have Wonder Woman if Superman can do her job?
And then he goes and says dumb shit like:
This doesn't fill me with hope that Superman won't just be a deus ex machina in the third act when things get tough for the league because Superman.
You call it dumb but to be fair "You're a guy, you're a cool guy" is about as much characterization anybody has ever gotten from Snyder. He's clearly trying.
As a plot reason for its creation it's perfectly valid.
That's EXACTLY what he's going to be.
My only hope is that they at least make his comeback hype. Kinda like when the Z Warriors are getting whooped by the Saiyans and then Goku comes just in time to save everyone (except Yamcha, Tien etc.).
Steppenwolf : "I have a demonic army, how can you defeat the might of Apocalypse?!"
Batman : "With one man... a Superman"
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Lord Virgin
Unconfirmed Member
Ahh we on the 'lolSnyderhack' train again? Took long enough.
Shit man, can you imagine him trying to make the avengers?
"Why is Black Widow even a thing? And what is Hawkeye going to do, shoot arrows? I can't give him an assault rifle or anything?"
Whose gonna be the Yamcha/Tien in the situation? I'm thinking Cyborg.
One reads those quotes and wonders if Snyder has even read any JL or, at bare minimum, watched the cartoon.
I mean, yes, Superman is the heavy lifter (obviously) of the team, but what does it say when he comes to you (another metahuman) for help? It says that maybe Supes isn't the best tactician/detective/diplomat/etc.
We never left that train.
Superman should be a deus ex machina within the Justice League. Anything less is doing him a disservice.
His role can be serviced by other members of the league. Strength? Got that. Speed? Got that. Flight? Batman has a plane.
The alternative is making him like Thor in the movies, where you depower him so he can fit in. I prefer Superman coming in and fighting with the League using the full capacity of his powers, and you can only really do that if the plot renders him out of commision for some time within the film.
His role can be serviced by other members of the league. Strength? Got that. Speed? Got that. Flight? Batman has a plane.
The alternative is making him like Thor in the movies, where you depower him so he can fit in. I prefer Superman coming in and fighting with the League using the full capacity of his powers, and you can only really do that if the plot renders him out of commision for some time within the film.
MisterHero
Super Member
Well, why is Black Widow a thing? Ant-Man and Wasp were founding members in the comics. All the best characters have powers!
And did you see all the guys Hawkeye killed? What a jerk
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Lord Virgin
Unconfirmed Member
Willing to bet my left arm Snyder has read more comics than those calling him out for it.
MegaManTrigger
Banned
How? The cognitive dissonance is insanely strong in what Snyder says. If Superman dying is a necessity to catalyze the JL, then why have metahumans? Aren't they also redundant? Making Bruce the leader doesn't change Snyder's concern for redundancy.
"Captain America? Come on, lemme give him a shield with machine gun turrets in the front. I like that aesthetic, cause y'know it represents the symbol of guns and freedom in America."
I'm not sure what mean.
Superman being out of the picture means that the formation of the Justice League is needed. In the absence of Superman they need to be able to face Superman-level threats. So Batman decides to round up metahumans for that purpose. Then, when Superman inevitably comes back, the team isn't just going to disband - they'll work as a unit and face greater threats.
I mean "oh shit, we need to be able to deal with what Superman deals with" seems like a pretty good catalyst to form a super-group to me.
Yup. Reintroducing Superman will reintroduce the redundancy. The only way to get rid of it, going by Zack Snyder's logic, so to kill off Superman permanently.
Or, you know, just find other roles for everyone else that Superman can't fulfill, like any other normal writer does. There are many ways to do it. Like a big monster that he can't fight alone, or when he has to do two simultaneous tasks, or if he simply doesn't have the character to do something, or...
The number of reasons are literally endless.
THat reminds me, another thing I really don't like about Snyder is how he seems to focus on making his characters overly buff for no reason. It wasn't so bad when it was just Superman in MoS, but it got kinda silly when Batman got a suit that muscular and they just looked like two gorrilas in costumes in all those BvS posters where they stand in front of each other. And now for some reason Gordon is going to be a body builder too.
So I'm guessing if Snyder was in charge of Cap's design, it'd look closer to this than anything
But I do like how you think with the Shield-Guns.
broncobuster
Banned
Some people here should really watch the Justice League episode The Secret Society.
To be fair it's sort of necessary if you're trying to pull comic book images off of the page and onto the big screen. Superman doesn't have a Christopher Reeve build in most of the comics he's in, and Batman, especially in The Dark Knight Returns, in muscle upon muscle.
I dug they way they looked physically. Batman could use more neck (I think they said they modified the suit for that reason, for Justice League) but otherwise he looks the part as a Batman who has been packing on muscle for 20 years.
MisterHero
Super Member
Superman is a valid moral center for the League even when he's dead. Let's look at the other metahumans "that could replace Superman".
Wonder Woman- Is from a civilization that left humans behind
Aquaman- same deal
Flash, Cyborg- haven't had to reveal themselves and haven't been pushed like Superman has
Just because they have powers doesn't mean they have the best intentions. Batman was the only one who [sort of] knew Superman, and because of that, he's given this mission. It might not be the correct path, but that's what he's going to do.
Lol, I don't even know where to begin with this. Were you like laughing to yourself when you typed this or something?
Even the Gordon thing is factually incorrect. Simmons is a gym rat and it had nothing to do with Snyder. The people on the JL set said you couldn't even tell because of his wardrobe. He looked like Gordon ripped right off the page.
MisterHero
Super Member
It's his fault a certain scene was cut from Spider-Man 2.
The Spidey costume fit too well
Some heroes are better lanky than buff.
Do NOT want Routh Superboy physique and look for Superman but at the same time I don't want Spider Man to look like Dark Knight Returns/BvS Batman.
Side note I bet that if Snyder was on Fox he would be doing the R rated Wolverine. That seems far more like his type of super hero.
Do NOT want Routh Superboy physique and look for Superman but at the same time I don't want Spider Man to look like Dark Knight Returns/BvS Batman.
Side note I bet that if Snyder was on Fox he would be doing the R rated Wolverine. That seems far more like his type of super hero.
Yeah, the sculpted physique is a little weird. It does make more sense in the comics, where character's are generally wearing more form fitting clothing than armour. But it's about achieving superhero-look, so I can see why Snyder and Co. went the way they did. It didn't mind it.
Dude.. The designs in the DCEU are great. Don't come with this shit. I think your need to drive the conversation has lead you to grasp at straws.
There was a thread where where hte title was "Simmons preparing for his role as Gordon" and a picture of him working out.
If that's just a coincidence rather than Snyder's deliberate choice, then fair enough, I'll take it out. It's besides the main point I was making. Even if averts this with Gordon, he's definitely going for the roid rager look with his heroes.
I don't disagree, and it's partially even why I never complained about it in MoS, but Batman just looks silly to me.
To each their own. Personally, I really don't like the design of either Batman nor Superman. Cavill has the body itself, but he needs some kind of red at his waist. It doesn't need to be the red underpants, it could be a belt like the current comics design, which looks great. A poster in another thread said the suit makes him look naked, especially with his gigantic bulge, and it's distracting. Not even in a sexual way, it's just as if he walks around naked. Batman has the same problem with his suit, but the belt fixes it. While I don't think he should have the "spider man' look like Dahbomb says, he looks WAY overly muscled to me.
IceDoesntHelp
Banned
Jesus christ, what an awful awful film.
Hated it. Such a boring film, the fight scenes were awful, repetitive and felt rehashed.
Can't even stand it.
Hated it. Such a boring film, the fight scenes were awful, repetitive and felt rehashed.
Can't even stand it.
broncobuster
Banned
We know Flash's physique is lither than the rest. It's not the typical comic book thing with all characters drawn as body builders.
Except Ezra and, y'know, Gal.
MegaManTrigger
Banned
Questioning WW's intentions is weird considering she came back to fight against Doomsday. Themyscira may have ditched Earth, but that doesn't mean she was unwilling to come save Earth in their time of need (which has been a point of conflict in the comics). Aquaman may be a more cynical character, but it remains to be seen. Flash in terms of pure power has the most potential in terms of doing a lot offensively as well as defensively, so he's definitely a good candidate to take on Superman-tier threats. Cyborg remains to be seen.
Also, the moral center argument would be much stronger if the movie demonstrated how Superman actually had his own morals, instead of being told what's right by other characters.
Precisely.
I don't understand why he thinks heroes only have one role. Heroes aren't really one-dimensional, so it's easier to play around with what they may do in a JL setting.
The damaged tatoo is the bane of my existance. But the rest is great and comic accurate.
The SS designs are a bit harder to get into, but then you realize they are criminals, they should not be glamorous at all. Katana is a hero and has a great costume, the squad guys are dirty.
Well, we haven't seen how detailed the body designs are in Ezra's suit yet. Keep in mind, it's not just the hugeness of the muscles, but the emphasis on them to the point where, in comics, it barely looks like the heroes are wearing clothes at all that I don't like. I don't care of the character is huge, but if they're gonna wear a suit, they should wear a suit. I don't like how Spiderman looks if his suit is so skintight that it looks like he just paints himself either, despite always being drawn with a lank body.
As far as Gal goes, yeah, she's an exception, but there were many differences with her suit, so...
Edit: regarding spider-man.
I go for this, not this. If I can count your individual oblique muscles and make out your navel, you need a bigger shirt.
WW suit is pretty damn good and they have used that suit as the basis of the new WW in DC Rebirth.
The red color on the suit that most people have an issue with is actually brighter than it appears in the movie (like most things in BvS).
I have quite a few reservations about the DCU but their visual look is not one of them. Far superior to something like what Fox is doing with the X Men for example.
The red color on the suit that most people have an issue with is actually brighter than it appears in the movie (like most things in BvS).
I have quite a few reservations about the DCU but their visual look is not one of them. Far superior to something like what Fox is doing with the X Men for example.
True. I am a fan of Joker's attire outside of the 'Damaged', and to a lesser degree the rest of his tattoos.
The rest of the Suicide Squad ... eh. Deathstroke's mask is a dud, for instance.
The JL suit is confirmed to have a bright crimson.