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[Smokey_Run]

People years ago "I wish Batman would fight like he does in the Arkham games in future movies!"

People now "Zack is a talentless hack who stole from the Arkham games."

Smfh. DC can't win.

 

[JB1981]

People years ago "I wish Batman would fight like he does in the Arkham games in future movies!"

People now "Zack is a talentless hack who stole from the Arkham games."

Smfh. DC can't win.

Not people. Veelk. I think I'm going to have to use the ignore button soon

 

[Einchy]

Is the

Spoiler

Batman stealing the Kryptonate

action scene as good as the rescue one? Or is it just a few seconds of action?

 

[JB1981]

Is the

Spoiler

Batman stealing the Kryptonate

action scene as good as the rescue one? Or is it just a few seconds of action?

Few seconds of security camera footage

 

[Einchy]

Few seconds of security camera footage

Damn, bummer.

 

[shoreu]

Which would be relevant if this movie was being elected to some kind of position via a vote. I don't mind if others like it. From a pure spectacle perspective, it's not that bad and certainly the best fight scene the film offers.

I just don't personally credit it's creation to Snyder, but Rocksteady. I'm not even the one calling it a rehash, I call it plagiarism.

I don't think you're aware of the full definition of the word then. Did Snyder somewhere claim that Batman's fighting style in BvS was his idea?

Lets nip this in the bud batman has been doing insane combat WAYYYYY BEFORE THE ARKHAM games... Arkham was just the first game to get the shit right.


Just as BvS is the first movie to get it right

 

[brandonh83]

My verdict is beginning to lean more toward boring first hour but good last two hours.

 

[Veelk]

Okay, final post on this because this is not the hill I want to die on in regards to this movie. There are SO many worse problems with it and I don't care that he lifts it from Arkham games. I just can't personally assign him creative credit for it. Which is bizarre that this is what got this thread in a frenzy, because me not personally giving Snyder credit for the scene seems like it'd be a pretty small issue to everyone involved. He won't care, those of you that seem to agree he lifted it from the games care more about that you just got a good fight scene, and I'm not saying it's a bad fight scene, or that it should be removed or anything like that, so....I don't really get it. All I'm saying is that I think Rocksteady is the one who truly deserves the credit for it's creation, because they are nearly identical. That's less a criticism of the movie itself and more me just saying Snyder could have been more creative about it. Which shouldn't be a controversial statement, I think.

Anyway, the main defense seems to be "Yeah, it's really similar to it, but not completely." Well, yeah, most people who copy stuff don't literally completely copy things perfectly. Not to a complete degree, just a significant one. Eragon was not a literal copy of Star Wars, but the general story was similar enough that people did notice it basically was star wars. Avatar isn't literally Ferngully, but the number of parallels you could draw obviously make it derivative.

So with that in mind, I've gone through the fight again to make double sure that I wasn't talking out my ass when I said that the fight could be significantly replicated in the actual games, and I wasn't off. There are differences. In the opening of the fight, Batman uses a gadget that disables like 6 guys by making their guns explode. Batman can only disable, at most, 4 (I think? It's been a while. It's either 2 or 4) guns at a time and it takes the gadget a while to do it, and they use some kind of magnetic wave rather than a bomb, but the function of the weapon is the same and you can create a similar set up, it just takes slightly longer. He uses the batclaw to grab a thug so he flies toward him, then punches him away, with the difference being that in BvS, the batclaw goes through the thug's actual body rather than grabbing and letting go. The most significant difference I think is that Batman uses his enemies weapons against him, including guns, where he otherwise just breaks them.

Watching this scene, going step by step, it's really is mostly replicable in the game. Some of it would be hard to pull off all together, since you can't account for thugs being in different locations, but most of Batman's actions and counters to the enemies? Yeah, mostly. I would say it is to a significant degree. If you disagree and think those differences are significant enough to say Snyder made it his own....you know what, fine, you do you. But you have to be pretty aggressively contrarian to deny the significant similarities here.

 

[Doctor Ironic]

The Wayne Parallel is reaching. If Batman lost faith in humanity, then why would he become Batman and deal with the crime and corruption within Gotham City? The interpretation seems to want to paint Bruce as a nihilist, when he hasn't really reached that point yet. The same with the birth of Superman, it's just both of them screaming...

"In the dream, they carried me into the light. A beautiful lie..."

Bruce believed that becoming Batman would be his salvation, and turned out to only torment him further. (Robin is dead, he couldn't stop crime in Gotham, and Space 9/11 happened.) This is how Snyder uses visual metaphors for characterization.

That is a very weird comparison, it basically just boils down to Clark crying/screaming and that is it.

More importantly, the first few shots are exactly the same, and once you sync those up, baby Supes/adult Supes' cries come in at the exact same time.

Here's something that I think is really important to reading BvS -

Spoiler

Doomsday is directly equated to the False God statue.

http://i.imgur.com/AdzmE9o.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Pv8ZbKk.jpg

The first thing he does is jump to it, there's a shot of him standing next to it as if he's its successor, and then later on, he smashes through it and takes its place. Then he literally bashes a monument of the Metropolis victims' names over Superman's head.

BvS is at times blunt, but never stupid. Doomsday is Superman's fear of being a "false god" made flesh, one that he sacrifices himself simultaneously to save the world but also to prove himself to it, and eliminate it - showing that he's willing to make the final sacrifice to protect a world he loves.

Call THAT grimdark.

 

[Doctor Ironic]

Whoops, that's a double post. Sorry.

 

[roflwaffles]

I don't think this movie is good at all, but lol @ the complaining about the Arkham style fight.

Batman fanboys have been complaining for years that Nolan's trilogy has shitty fights and now that DC has delivered, people are hating on it?

The Batman fight sequence is the one actual good part of this movie.

 

[Boombloxer]

Out of all of the things to shit on the film about, Batman finally fighting like Batman is not one of them.

I read that other Snyder quote and yea, awkward. Batman is some guy if Superman is there.

It's almost like he's never killed Darkseid or repossessed Desaad.

 

[bishopcruz]

Out of all of the things to shit on the film about, Batman finally fighting like Batman is not one of them.

I read that other Snyder quote and yea, awkward. Batman is some guy if Superman is there.

It's almost like he's never killed Darkseid or repossessed Desaad.

To be fair, it wasn't really a fight with Darkseid. He pretty much just walked up and shot him. Now, he was ABLE to do so because he has ridiculous willpower, but outside of his Hellbat, no way he can go toe to toe with Darkseid. He wins in other ways, like he did in the Supergirl arc that Loeb wrote.

 

[IconGrist]

Another thing you're forgetting Veelk (something you cannot replicate fluidly in the games) is that Batman connects from "Predator" to "Combo" in BvS. In the Arkham games it's either or. Can't do both with the same group of enemies. You'll die because the games weren't designed that way. It's almost no-win. Or at the very least you don't feel quite like Batman because you will take plenty of hits. In the Predator mode there's usually enemies placed in specific ways to to take advantage of them in specific ways. It's structured like a puzzle. There's a route to taking them all down without ever being seen or at least found. Even within the game enemy encounters follow this structure in differences to how you engage.

So there are elements of the BvS fight that can be recreated but not in full. Hanging a guy can only be done in a Predator encounter, for instance. The enemy AI is programmed differently for these types of encounters. In the Combo mode everyone sees you and you'll just be shot the hell up. Snyder melded the two styles together to make one encounter. Going from Predator to Combo back to Predator in one fell swoop.

You could technically create a "Combo" style encounter from a Predator encounter but it will not be nearly as hectic as seen in BvS.

 

[Veelk]

Another thing you're forgetting Veelk (something you cannot replicate fluidly in the games) is that Batman connects from "Predator" to "Combo" in BvS. In the Arkham games it's either or. Can't do both with the same group of enemies. You'll die because the games weren't designed that way. It's almost no-win. Or at the very least you don't feel quite like Batman because you will take plenty of hits. In the Predator mode there's usually enemies placed in specific ways to to take advantage of them in specific ways. It's structured like a puzzle. There's a route to taking them all down without ever being seen or at least found. Even within the game enemy encounters follow this structure in differences to how you engage.

Blatantly false. The game has instances designed for both, especially in the open world where you can choose to take on enemies or sneak around them. I've had plenty of fights where I snuck around, then got down in the fight. They even had guns, and I didn't get it.

 

[IconGrist]

Blatantly false. The game has instances designed for both, especially in the open world where you can choose to take on enemies or sneak around them. I've had plenty of fights where I snuck around, then got down in the fight. They even had guns, and I didn't get it.

Batman is not out "in the open world". The warehouse fight takes place in a confined area. A warehouse.

 

[Veelk]

Batman is not out "in the open world". The warehouse fight takes place in a confined area. A warehouse.

Dude, the major post of distinction you're trying to draw here is something as minor as a "takes place inside rather than outside." (There are confined spaces even in the open world, btw)

Which isn't a strong point anyway because there are plenty of enemy group encounters in which the enemy doesn't know Batman is in the room until he gets his 1 free stealth drop on them, which alters them to their presence. The first encounter with Joker's goons inside his factor and the first major battle you have in there is when thugs are unaware you're in the grates below them, allowing you to pop out, get one stealth kill, before you are forced to deal with the rest of them in normal combat. The game isn't divided between pure stealth or pure fights, inside or in the open world.

Bah, Whatever. Just let this die please. Batman would.

 

[IconGrist]

Dude, the major post of distinction you're trying to draw here is something as minor as a "takes place inside rather than outside."

Which isn't a strong point anyway because there are plenty of enemy group encounters in which the enemy doesn't know Batman is in the room until he gets his 1 free stealth drop on them, which alters them to their presence. The first encounter with Joker's goons inside his factor and the first major battle you have in there is when thugs are unaware you're in the grates below them, allowing you to pop out, get one stealth kill, before you are forced to deal with the rest of them in normal combat. The game isn't divided between pure stealth or pure fights, inside or in the open world.

Lol That's not a Predator encounter. A predator encounter is like the Two-Face encounter in City I think it was. I think he might have even had a hostage but I could be wrong. A Predator encounter you can distinguish from the normal Combo encounter because they will place obvious gargoyles or ledges in the corners. Grates everywhere, those little passages, some breakable walls that only your explosive gel can penetrate, etc, etc. Depending on how far you are the enemies will start wearing night vision goggles and shit.

And don't get on me about nitpicking, lol. Your major argument about this whole thing is because Snyder had Batman string a guy up and disable the guns. Everything else was just a bunch of punch and kicks.

 

[MegaManTrigger]

"In the dream, they carried me into the light. A beautiful lie..."

Bruce believed that becoming Batman would be his salvation, and turned out to only torment him further. (Robin is dead, he couldn't stop crime in Gotham, and Space 9/11 happened.) This is how Snyder uses visual metaphors for characterization.

Except the Wayne funerals happened YEARS before Bruce would become Batman, so again, it tries to paint Bruce as a nihilist, when he never reaches that point until 20 years after he becomes Batman. Therefore you can't say the funerals represent a loss of humanity as it pertains to Batman, when the lore uses the death of the Waynes to create Batman. It makes no sense.

 

[Veelk]

Lol That's not a Predator encounter. A predator encounter is like the Two-Face encounter in City I think it was. I think he might have even had a hostage but I could be wrong. A Predator encounter you can distinguish from the normal Combo encounter because they will place obvious gargoyles or ledges in the corners. Grates everywhere, those little passages, some breakable walls that only your explosive gel can penetrate, etc, etc. Depending on how far you are the enemies will start wearing night vision goggles and shit.

I never said it was a predator encounter, I said it was an encounter in which you could stealth kill. Functionally, it's the same as what batman did in the movie. It's literally one of my favorite things to do in the game. Get a few stealth takedowns while no one knew where I am, then beat them down in a crowd.

Edit: The two-face encounter is not a predator encounter. He just had no idea you were in the room, which allowed you to get one stealth takedown, before everyone attacked you. Again, basically the same thing BvS did.

And don't get on me about nitpicking, lol. Your major argument about this whole thing is because Snyder had Batman string a guy up and disable the guns. Everything else was just a bunch of punch and kicks.

And use the batclaw in the same way, and initiated the encounter the same way, and strung up the guy, and threw a body to stun a dude about to throw something, along with manuevering and hitting the same general way as in the games.

Whatever. If the fact that you can do 80-90% of the BvS fight scene in the game doesn't convince you, there's not much more I can offer as evidence, though I consider it sufficient to remove reasonable doubt about it.

 

[Smokey_Run]

I never said it was a predator encounter, I said it was an encounter in which you could stealth kill. Functionally, it's the same as what batman did in the movie. It's literally one of my favorite things to do in the game. Get a few stealth takedowns while no one knew where I am, then beat them down in a crowd.

Edit: The two-face encounter is not a predator encounter. He just had no idea you were in the room, which allowed you to get one stealth takedown, before everyone attacked you. Again, basically the same thing BvS did.



And use the batclaw in the same way, and initiated the encounter the same way, and strung up the guy, and threw a body to stun a dude about to throw something, along with manuevering and hitting the same general way as in the games.

Whatever. If the fact that you can do 80-90% of the BvS fight scene in the game doesn't convince you, there's not much more I can offer as evidence, though I consider it sufficient to remove reasonable doubt about it.

Why do you continue to act like the games created the entire Batman move set like the developers didn't copy stuff they've seen from comics and animated films? Cause I'm sure if you talked to them, they'd point you in about a dozen different directions for inspiration for their combat system. Yet, somehow it's a problem that Snyder emulated it after people were asking for this exact thing for years now.

 

[IconGrist]

I never said it was a predator encounter, I said it was an encounter in which you could stealth kill. Functionally, it's the same as what batman did in the movie. It's literally one of my favorite things to do in the game. Get a few stealth takedowns while no one knew where I am, then beat them down in a crowd.

And use the batclaw in the same way, and initiated the encounter the same way, and strung up the guy, and threw a body to stun a dude about to throw something, along with manuevering and hitting the same general way as in the games.

Whatever. If the fact that you can do 80-90% of the BvS fight scene in the game doesn't convince you, there's not much more I can offer as evidence, though I consider it sufficient to remove reasonable doubt about it.

Veelk, no one would have argued with you if you just acknowledged that the fight scene in the movie was like a celebration. Done with respect to it. Instead you threw out words like plagiarism and laziness or lack of creativity. You chose to be as negative as possible about it for no reason other than to bring attention to yourself. You had no legitimate gripe so you created one.

Leading you down this road of nonsense was just to show you what that feels like to the other posters. It just's a bunch of bullshit and I know you know it.

 

[Veelk]

Veelk, no one would have argued with you if you just acknowledged that the fight scene in the movie was like a celebration. Done with respect to it. Instead you threw out words like plagiarism and laziness or lack of creativity. You chose to be as negative as possible about it for no reason other than to bring attention to yourself. You had no legitimate gripe so you created one.

Leading you down this road of nonsense was just to show you what that feels like to the other posters. It just's a bunch of bullshit and I know you know it.

Because it being done with good intention doesn't stop it from being a replication rather than building on a foundation. It's not creative and it is lazy. That he meant well doesn't change the creative bankruptcy of it.

Anyway, I don't know what you thought you were 'teaching' me, but the way I see it, I've given pretty convincing evidence that you haven't been able to refute. I'm walking away convinced I'm right, which only means I'm doing the same as you, evidently.

 

[Dysun]

Ultimate Cut is a better version of the movie. It flows better, but its still too long.
I never hated the TC, but the movie could have been so much more than average

 

[Ithil]

Just watched it. Was not a big fan of the TC, to say the least.

The UC is an improvement. There's no doubt about that.
But unfortunately it can't save the movie. It's not a terrible film, but it is fundamentally broken at its core, and no amount of footage added can fix that. It raised it from "crummy" to "alright".

The UC flows much better, it fleshes out the conflict between Batman and Superman better, as well as some little extra parts to substantiate the previously choppy feel of the film. There are some good ideas here, and the film is very handsomely shot and scored, with mostly good acting (except for Lex; Eisenberg is wildly miscast and misdirected), and relatively fine, if highly on the nose dialogue. It still has that sense of dourness and a feeling that the film believes it's much deeper than it actually is, but much of the extra time helps the first two acts, primarily the Batman and Superman plots.

But now, the film is too fucking long. The added half hour helps. But there's at least another half hour that needs to get hacked out of the film, now. It's completely crippled by its Justice League connections. Wonder Woman's entire presence kills the pacing whenever she shows up, and she's entirely undeveloped in the time she does take up. The Justice League trailers are still absurd. The Knightmare sequence is now even longer, when it was already too long and nonsensical. The film should have focused only on the central Batman/Superman conflict.

Lex has more screentime but he's still a gibbering cipher. It's nice to try something new, but a traditional Clancy Brown type Lex would ultimately have served the film better. His plan still really makes no sense and what he even wants is still left vague at best. His sudden change to Darkseid fanatic takes place off screen still, once again relegated to hints and set-up for future films, leaving the DCEU with a substandard Lex Luthor in the end.
As for the Batman/Superman conflict, as I said it has some nice ideas and is much better in this version, at least, until it's time for them to fight. Then it takes a wrong left right into Stupidville. The reason for the actual fight is weak, said actual fight is frankly quite short and the "Martha!?" ending is straight up awful, particularly how quickly Batman does a complete 180.
Finally, the entire climax of the film is just an obnoxiously cacophonic explosion fest with nothing engaging about this out of nowhere Doomsday fight. It devolves into loud, dumb nonsense, and that's a real shame. It's so far away from the attempts at depth earlier that it cheapens the whole film.

In short, this film is hamstrung by being a Justice League set-up. It needed to completely excise Wonder Woman and the other Justice League connections, including the nightmares and visions and all that, and totally revamp Lex. There's a good film hiding in here somewhere, deep down.

Apologies for this rambling, I'm very tired, on account of this film being 34 hours long and keeping me up too late to watch it.

 

[GeorgioCostanzaX]

Have to say Batfleck is the first film Batman I've actually thought was interesting I liked Keaton and Bale but they were more Bruce Wayne in a suit and outshone by their villains. Ben Affleck played it like the comics and Kevin Conroy: Bruce Wayne is the mask.

 

[bigboss370]

This ultimate cut made me excited for the Justice League movie again.

 

[Doctor Ironic]

Except the Wayne funerals happened YEARS before Bruce would become Batman, so again, it tries to paint Bruce as a nihilist, when he never reaches that point until 20 years after he becomes Batman. Therefore you can't say the funerals represent a loss of humanity as it pertains to Batman, when the lore uses the death of the Waynes to create Batman. It makes no sense.

Do you think you can't have an idea in your head for more than a year or something?

Bruce is reflecting on a past dream of his. Back then he believed that being Batman would be his salvation, but in the end it wound up ruining him.

 

[- J - D -]

Whoever the person was who thought cutting out the scenes involving the African woman needs to be fired. Bolstering the much more elaborate Africa sequence, her scenes, especially the scene wherein she

Spoiler

confesses to lying about the tragedy in Africa

are integral and its effect on the plot and character beats cascade in waves that make each successive moment feel much more natural than in the original cut. It makes the entire Capitol hearing scene make much more sense, especially Senator Finch's apprehension (and the peach tea thing).

All of the investigative scenes that were added here are actually very substantial. It turns out that showing the characters work proactively to shed light on Lex's scheme to fuck over Superman actually makes Superman a more sympathetic figure. Who knew!? What's more, Lois's investigations actually culminate in a great scene where she (and WE) learn that the

Spoiler

wheelchair bomb was lined with lead.

Why would you cut all that out?! If running time considerations are so important (for a 2 and half hour movie no less), I'm sure many people here can cut out a bunch of bullshit if it meant getting these essential plot-supporting scenes.

Fucking hell.

Anyway, none of it actually saves the movie, ultimately. I still have no trouble saying that it's a bad film. Batman is still a dummy, I still vehemently disagree with the premise upon which Batman and Superman are forced to fight, and the Doomsday shit is still shit.

However, with the original cut I would have actively told people to avoid the film, whereas with the Extended cut I would actually merely tell them to go in with low expectations. So I guess that'd be a sort of half-hearted maybe kinda recommendation with a ton of caveats.

 

[aBarreras]

im halfway through the ultimate cut, and im liking it so much more, hints were here and there on the theatrical cut, but in this cut you can see Lex manipulations so fucking clear that is not even funny, and lex manipulations was something that i enjoyed the most.

it still doesnt save the movie of a neurotic batman and a whiny superman, but i suppose that's the point, to paint Lex as a megalomaniac genius manipulator.

i mean, this batman doesnt even realize he is being used, and even when superman tells him, he doesnt believe him.

superman too, you have lois telling him that someone is pulling the strings and he is all like, "i got daddy issues "

weeeeeeeeeeeeell, im gonna finish watching the second half tomorrow.

im linking it a lot more even if some flaws are still present.

 

[The Cretan]

Notice that Batwing has an inside camera, so Alfred can see Bruce and talk to him. The same idea exists in Batman Beyond. Bruce sees and talks to Terry through an inside camera. I'm not saying that there will be a Batman Beyond movie just because of this, but the idea is there.

 

[Zakalwe]

The fight scene in the warehouse is obviously lifted from the games, to the point you can imagine the exact button prompts you'd need to replicate it, but there's nothing wrong with that at all. It's a fantastic scene, and probably the best fight sequence we've ever had for an onscreen Batman.

You could go through almost every single superhero movie and pull moments and compare them to source materials and call them "lifted", but they're adaptations so there will always be elements that are copied, and sequences that are hugely inspired.

Synder is obviously a huge fan of the source material he uses, but also likes to create something of his own with the material. There's nothing wrong with his approach, even if his creative choices aren't always appreciated by the majority.

---

The UE is a much better movie overall, if this had released in theatres the reception would have been much better. It doesn't change the things that many have issues with, like interpretations of character, etc... but it lends story arcs and plot points much more weight and reason.

 

[The Cretan]

More observations:
Before Diana sees the photograph that Bruce has sent to her, she has opened the CNN site.
On the left side of the site, there are 8 newstitles. I tried to read them.
1) Wallace Keefe: The true story behind the DC bomber
2) Coundil set to *can't read the word* tunnel under Stryker's island
3) Superman *two words follow, can't read them, the second word ends to an -nue* around the world
4) Belle Reeve prison gets new warden
5) Near mass *or miss* above Metropolis
6) Danger obscures underground geothermal aqueduct
7) Gallery: Fifteen * probably dogs* that look like Superman
8) Strange signals from distant planets

I think the important ones are 4, 6 and 8.

 

[morningbus]

Notice that Batwing has an inside camera, so Alfred can see Bruce and talk to him. The same idea exists in Batman Beyond. Bruce sees and talks to Terry through an inside camera. I'm not saying that there will be a Batman Beyond movie just because of this, but the idea is there.

Jesus Christ it's like that hack-fraud Snyder couldn't think of anything original.

 

[Lord Virgin]

Jesus Christ it's like that hack-fraud Snyder couldn't think of anything original.

More than that: A story about a guy in a Batcostume, his parents died in front of him when he was a kid....and then you have this other dude with a giant S on his chest flying around....I mean. At least try to be subtle about it. Hope he gets sued. Can't get away with stuff like this.

 

[Mengy]

I don't think this movie is good at all, but lol @ the complaining about the Arkham style fight.

Batman fanboys have been complaining for years that Nolan's trilogy has shitty fights and now that DC has delivered, people are hating on it?

The Batman fight sequence is the one actual good part of this movie.

Agreed, that fight scene is actually my favorite part of the movie. I wish the Lexcorp infiltration scene had actually been filmed and showed us more of Arkham Batman, instead of just happening off screen.

 

[jelly]

Speaking of fights, do people rate the dream sequence one because that was a bit too close to the atrocious Nolan Dark Knight Rises fights.

 

[ClivePwned]

I watched the Extended cut last night without seen the theatrical version.

Overall, I liked it. I didn't hate it nor did I flat out love it. It at least made DKR seem a better film. Nowhere on the level of disaster of Green Lantern, Shumacher Batman or Fantastic Four (any of them).

It was entertaining enough though I felt it started to fall apart towards the end (i was also tired and starting to fall asleep- which to be honest- happens almost everytime I watch a movie at night and I end up stopping and watching the second half the next day.

I might actually rewatch the last hour this afternoon and see how that goes.

I am also a huge fan of the DCTV stuff and that movie Flash- as seen in BvS- has me in no way interested in that Flash movie.

 

[bob_arctor]

More observations:
Before Diana sees the photograph that Bruce has sent to her, she has opened the CNN site.
On the left side of the site, there are 8 newstitles. I tried to read them.
1) Wallace Keefe: The true story behind the DC bomber
2) Coundil set to *can't read the word* tunnel under Stryker's island
3) Superman *two words follow, can't read them, the second word ends to an -nue* around the world
4) Belle Reeve prison gets new warden
5) Near mass *or miss* above Metropolis
6) Danger obscures underground geothermal aqueduct
7) Gallery: Fifteen * probably dogs* that look like Superman
8) Strange signals from distant planets

I think the important ones are 4, 6 and 8.

Nice find!! For me, BvS does a good job at world-building so these references add to that.

 

[Truant]

Watch this for the first time. Haven't seen the theatrical cut.

I now realize pretty much all comic book movies are terrible. I don't even know why people are arguing about Marvel films versus DC films. They're all trash. This film opened my eyes, so big thanks to Snyder and his wife for that, I guess.

At least it looks like an actual film, as opposed to the Lifetime TV-movie look of MCU stuff.

Unbreakable for life. #whynosequel?

Truant out.

 

[jrush64]

Watch this for the first time. Haven't seen the theatrical cut.

I now realize pretty much all comic book movies are terrible. I don't even know why people are arguing about Marvel films versus DC films. They're all trash. This film opened my eyes, so big thanks to Snyder and his wife for that, I guess.

At least it looks like an actual film, as opposed to the Lifetime TV-movie look of MCU stuff.

Unbreakable for life. #whynosequel?

Truant out.

Damn dude. That's just cold.

 

[guek]

Speaking of fights, do people rate the dream sequence one because that was a bit too close to the atrocious Nolan Dark Knight Rises fights.

It's pretty uncharacteristically bad for Snyder. There was no sense of style or energy to the scene. Maybe Snyder wanted to try his hand at a long take fight scene without any slow mo or over cranking but the choreography was subpar and the rotating camera angle felt incredibly dull.

 

[Succinct Verbosity]

What I want to know is how much of these scenes were put in after the movies release to deal with critiques and how many were cut by the studio in editing against Snyder's wishes.

 

[IconGrist]

What I want to know is how much of these scenes were putting in after the movies release to deal with critiques and how many were cut by the studio in editing against Snyder's wishes.

Hard to say. All but a couple were pretty important plot wise or as character building.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

What I want to know is how much of these scenes were putting in after the movies release to deal with critiques and how many were cut by the studio in editing against Snyder's wishes.

Good question.

Hard to say. All but a couple were pretty important plot wise or as character building.

Which is what I find odd about their removal in the first place. Seriously..what were they thinking?

 

[WrenchNinja]

They were thinking about how many screenings they could reasonably have per theatre

 

[brochiller]

"In the dream, they carried me into the light. A beautiful lie..."

Bruce believed that becoming Batman would be his salvation, and turned out to only torment him further. (Robin is dead, he couldn't stop crime in Gotham, and Space 9/11 happened.) This is how Snyder uses visual metaphors for characterization.



More importantly, the first few shots are exactly the same, and once you sync those up, baby Supes/adult Supes' cries come in at the exact same time.

Here's something that I think is really important to reading BvS -

Spoiler

Doomsday is directly equated to the False God statue.

http://i.imgur.com/AdzmE9o.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Pv8ZbKk.jpg

The first thing he does is jump to it, there's a shot of him standing next to it as if he's its successor, and then later on, he smashes through it and takes its place. Then he literally bashes a monument of the Metropolis victims' names over Superman's head.

BvS is at times blunt, but never stupid. Doomsday is Superman's fear of being a "false god" made flesh, one that he sacrifices himself simultaneously to save the world but also to prove himself to it, and eliminate it - showing that he's willing to make the final sacrifice to protect a world he loves.

Call THAT grimdark.

Damn this is a great post. The Batman part is especially interesting.

 

[Bleepey]

Okay, final post on this because this is not the hill I want to die on in regards to this movie. There are SO many worse problems with it and I don't care that he lifts it from Arkham games. I just can't personally assign him creative credit for it. Which is bizarre that this is what got this thread in a frenzy, because me not personally giving Snyder credit for the scene seems like it'd be a pretty small issue to everyone involved. He won't care, those of you that seem to agree he lifted it from the games care more about that you just got a good fight scene, and I'm not saying it's a bad fight scene, or that it should be removed or anything like that, so....I don't really get it. All I'm saying is that I think Rocksteady is the one who truly deserves the credit for it's creation, because they are nearly identical. That's less a criticism of the movie itself and more me just saying Snyder could have been more creative about it. Which shouldn't be a controversial statement, I think.

Anyway, the main defense seems to be "Yeah, it's really similar to it, but not completely." Well, yeah, most people who copy stuff don't literally completely copy things perfectly. Not to a complete degree, just a significant one. Eragon was not a literal copy of Star Wars, but the general story was similar enough that people did notice it basically was star wars. Avatar isn't literally Ferngully, but the number of parallels you could draw obviously make it derivative.

So with that in mind, I've gone through the fight again to make double sure that I wasn't talking out my ass when I said that the fight could be significantly replicated in the actual games, and I wasn't off. There are differences. In the opening of the fight, Batman uses a gadget that disables like 6 guys by making their guns explode. Batman can only disable, at most, 4 (I think? It's been a while. It's either 2 or 4) guns at a time and it takes the gadget a while to do it, and they use some kind of magnetic wave rather than a bomb, but the function of the weapon is the same and you can create a similar set up, it just takes slightly longer. He uses the batclaw to grab a thug so he flies toward him, then punches him away, with the difference being that in BvS, the batclaw goes through the thug's actual body rather than grabbing and letting go. The most significant difference I think is that Batman uses his enemies weapons against him, including guns, where he otherwise just breaks them.

Watching this scene, going step by step, it's really is mostly replicable in the game. Some of it would be hard to pull off all together, since you can't account for thugs being in different locations, but most of Batman's actions and counters to the enemies? Yeah, mostly. I would say it is to a significant degree. If you disagree and think those differences are significant enough to say Snyder made it his own....you know what, fine, you do you. But you have to be pretty aggressively contrarian to deny the significant similarities here.

If Snyder is such a talentless hack then why is it that the Arkham games though released in 2009 to widespread critical acclaim, did you personal Lord and saviour Christopwr Nolan.not to rip them off. Do I need to have a gif comparison of the fight scenes in Dark Knight/Rises to BVS. The warehouse scene was more hype than anything in Marvel's catalogue and I hate the fact it was ruined in the trailers. I could be a nitpicking asshole and wonder how winter soldier with a rusted steel bar was able to withstand vibranium tipped claws but that's just being picky.

 

[brochiller]

More observations:
Before Diana sees the photograph that Bruce has sent to her, she has opened the CNN site.
On the left side of the site, there are 8 newstitles. I tried to read them.
1) Wallace Keefe: The true story behind the DC bomber
2) Coundil set to *can't read the word* tunnel under Stryker's island
3) Superman *two words follow, can't read them, the second word ends to an -nue* around the world
4) Belle Reeve prison gets new warden
5) Near mass *or miss* above Metropolis
6) Danger obscures underground geothermal aqueduct
7) Gallery: Fifteen * probably dogs* that look like Superman
8) Strange signals from distant planets

I think the important ones are 4, 6 and 8.

I think you can add 2 to that list as well.

 

[D23]

They should've cut down the first hour. It was incredibly boring. The last two hour was good.