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Batman vs Superman: World's Finest Three-Year Wait
- Thread starter Marion Cobretti
- Start date
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Well, they could. But I don't think that would achieve anywhere near the success of the Avengers.
Marvel did a great job with building out their individual characters, making them independently popular, and then bringing them together in a very structured way. Doing it that way meant viewers carried quite a lot into Avengers in terms of information and emotional attachment, enabling them to cut corners in terms of characterization and backstory, allowing that film to concentrate on the dynamics of the new relationships and the action. The film actually doesn't hold up very well if you take it in isolation.
A Justice League movie out of nowhere would struggle by comparison given you'd be introducing so many key characters at once, some of whom the audience has a completely different understanding of e.g. regarding Batman, Joe Average has the Nolan interpretation top of mind. Even if the action, effects, acting and story was on par with Avengers, it would feel much flatter by comparison.
That being said, Warner shortcutting their way to the Justice League movie by riding on the coattails of Superman and not setting up the other League members separately isn't exactly going to be as effective as Marvel's approach of giving the individual heroes breathing space. For example, Batman in this film is going to be in part defined in his relationship with Superman, which may not provide as much insight and interest as building out his character in isolation first.
In summary, I don't think Warner can achieve what Marvel has in only half the time.
I would argue that just getting the JLA movie out the door is more important at this point than trying to catch the Avengers.
The Justice League, as a property, has more cultural awareness than the Avengers did prior to the release of their individual movies. Superman and Batman are the most popular superheroes ever, Wonder Woman is the most popular heroine, Aquaman, GL, and Flash all enjoy their own level of awareness. The biggest reason for doing the shared universe thing, beyond the fact that it's a damn good marketing scheme, is that Marvel's characters didn't have the kind of cache to make the Avengers the kind of success Marvel wanted. No doubt, the movie still could have been big; just not "third highest grossing movie of all time" big. The JLA already has some cache, and even if Supes and Bats (and to a lesser extent, Wonder Woman) have to carry the lion's share of the marketing to get people in the seats (which, let's face it, they'd do regardless), people wouldn't come into a JLA movie with no attachment to the characters.
There's a certain shortsightedness, I think, in assuming that just because Marvel did the superhero team up movie one way that that is literally the only way it can ever be done. Not taking anything away from what Marvel did because it is impressive, but that's giving them way too much credit and not giving nearly enough credit to any of the talented actors and writers who worked on the Avengers and who could potentially be working on JLA. What's really ironic is that this line of thinking - "Marvel did this so everyone has to do this!" - is exactly how executives think and why MoS2 is now introducing WW and Bats and starting the "DDCU" instead of just being a Superman sequel like it really ought to be. And now everyone is bitching about. lol
I also don't think we give audiences enough credit with this stuff. Hollywood has been releasing superhero movies since 1978, with the bulk coming out in the last 10+ years. I think they know how this goes by now that we no longer need to assume not explaining every detail of these characters will send people into some kind spasm in theaters lol. Joe Average, as you put it, managed to accept the Burton Batman after the Adam West era had been a pop culture institution for over 20 years. Audiences managed to deal with Keaton, Kilmer, and Clooney all being Batman in very short time of each other. People know Batman. You can introduce a new actor and people will deal. Unless he or the movie sucks, of course. lol
Which is really the deciding factor. The Avengers wasn't a success just because of the shared universe. That helped, but it was mainly because it was a damn fun movie and one of the most enjoyable theater experiences around.
It's possible to achieve that. Hard, but possible. I refuse to believe there is no narrative whatsoever that could bring together the JLA without setting them all up in seven (remember the JLA is a might bigger in terms of "main" than the Avengers) individual movies first. It's an ensemble piece; the story is about the team. Play up the characters interactions with each other in the story, create a threat that allows them all to show off their individual skills. Get a group of actors with good chemistry and presence. Tell a good story. Film some great action. Make a good film.
Hell, the first League script that was going to get made before the writer's strike started with the League already formed. That would be a fine place to start, in my opinion. We'd lose out on some backstory, but again, the main goal is telling the story of the team. Just as important, the goal is getting the characters out there. Because right now, WB is doing fuck all with 98% of DC's superhero IP.
Would it "beat" the Avengers? Maybe, maybe not. Probably not; the Avengers was lightning in a bottle. Can a JLA movie come out and be enjoyable and do $800 million worldwide (or however much is necessary to justify a sequel and some solo movies for the characters)? I think it could.
It's all ultimately moot since WB has set the course to ape Marvel's efforts. But still
As a piece of cinema, I didn't even like Avengers. However, I respect and admire how Marvel has built out and monetized their film IPs over the last decade from a business standpoint including how Avengers brought it altogether (and then became another launching point itself).
I would argue Avengers would not be as much of a "damn fun movie" for a lot of people without the movies that led up to it. You could take that as not giving the audience enough credit, but at the same time I think giving depth to the characters rather than just creating "spectacles" is the opposite of that.
That being said, I'm not saying Warner has to copy Marvel, and they clearly aren't given their roadmap. I just consider Marvel's approach superior, and consider that Warner would be wise themselves to make long term plans and investments rather than whisk their own Avengers up in a hurry.
Warner may pull it off swinging for the fences without first establishing a solid foundation but I think it could easily go the other way and leave a lot of people disappointed (including Warner execs themselves).
Their current approach gets them halfway there, but I think they are leaving themselves vulnerable as the success of a Justice League movie is going to be very dependent on the success of this (Man of Steel 2) film, and they are still going to have a lot of work to do even then.
I have to wonder which mega successful Marvel movies are always referenced when people talk about how there needs to be several movies building individual characters before the big team up event. No one gave a shit about most of the Marvel movies except for Iron Man and even that only did about $600 million with the sequel. Avengers came along and did $1.5 billion. Most of the people who watched that movie weren't watching all those movies leading up to it; they likely didn't even give a crap about them. And even beyond Avengers, it's clear that Iron Man is the one who benefitted most. He's basically become Marvel's Batman in live action.
Batman/Superman will comfortably gross over a billion because it'll be an event movie. The important part here really is that they don't screw up Batman somehow in the movie. That's the only thing they really need to worry about as it'll ruin the subsequent solo entries for the character. Personally, I think this could work well. They'll tease Batman through this new movie most likely and leave people wanting more out of his solo outing. That's probably the idea so extra interest is generated for his own movie, not that it will be needed really. Mixing the characters like this earlier allows them to jump into Justice League quicker too, and it'll be fine with a decent script. We don't need an individual movie for every member just to get there. You'd think these people really suck at their jobs. A lot can be done in 2-3 hour movie. If they can't manage it, then they deserve to fail.
Batman/Superman will comfortably gross over a billion because it'll be an event movie. The important part here really is that they don't screw up Batman somehow in the movie. That's the only thing they really need to worry about as it'll ruin the subsequent solo entries for the character. Personally, I think this could work well. They'll tease Batman through this new movie most likely and leave people wanting more out of his solo outing. That's probably the idea so extra interest is generated for his own movie, not that it will be needed really. Mixing the characters like this earlier allows them to jump into Justice League quicker too, and it'll be fine with a decent script. We don't need an individual movie for every member just to get there. You'd think these people really suck at their jobs. A lot can be done in 2-3 hour movie. If they can't manage it, then they deserve to fail.
Rastafarian42
Member
Joaquin would be sooo fucking dope but let me not get my hopes up.
Razgriz-Specter
Member
could be good.
I like that idea a lot.
Warner Bros. is bringing Argo writer Chris Terrio into the Batman-Superman universe.
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/batman-superman-chris-terrio-write-666735
Yes! Does this mean that there is hope for this movie now Goyer has been kicked out?
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/batman-superman-chris-terrio-write-666735
Yes! Does this mean that there is hope for this movie now Goyer has been kicked out?
This movie is going to send both the Superman and Batman movie franchises into a coma.
The fuck are you doing, DC?
b&jy77VjiKn$#F
Member
I wish.
Not really. They're still using his screenplay, but Chris Terrio is being brought in to do a new draft of the script. I'm guessing Goyer is moving more toward a producer role with DC in general.
They just got a writer from a Best Picture winning film to write a new draft of the script.
What about that elicits this response? I mean, did you not like Argo? lol
Yeah, Joaquin is one of the few choices that would make me less salty about that Cranston rumor being bullshit though I honestly can't see him agreeing to this. His doesn't work for just anyone these days, and I doubt he'd be interested in taking directions from someone like Zack Snyder.
I interpreted that as Terrio working with Goyer to write another draft of the script, either way this is fantastic news.
I was getting worried there, Goyer seems to only ever be good when he works with someone else.
Rastafarian42
Member
Damn I'm glad another credible writer is rewriting the draft.
Best news from this movie so far. I may let myself get hyped for it now.
b&jy77VjiKn$#F
Member
Affleck must be a GAF reader.
Yeah, we're the only ones talking about this movie on the internet.
b&jy77VjiKn$#F
Member
I just had a dream where they already released the trailer for it.
From what I could recall, it had a christopher reeves superman feel to it. Oliver Queen and Captain Marvel were in it as well as superman batman wonder woman and robin. Denzel Washington was playing luthor. There was a scene where batman, robin, and superman saved a monorail from hitting a kitten. A scene with lois and superman having a romantic evening on the moon.
They changed the movie title to "what's so funny about truth justice and the american way?"
From what I could recall, it had a christopher reeves superman feel to it. Oliver Queen and Captain Marvel were in it as well as superman batman wonder woman and robin. Denzel Washington was playing luthor. There was a scene where batman, robin, and superman saved a monorail from hitting a kitten. A scene with lois and superman having a romantic evening on the moon.
They changed the movie title to "what's so funny about truth justice and the american way?"
Meus Renaissance
Member
Agreed
Doesn't help that the Superman before him was George Reeves :lol
20 years younger Denzel, I would be fine with this, Now? Nope.
Every one knows Hal is the one true Green Lantern.
Messypandas
Member
The previous Supermen got the current one a Christmas gift.
Routh sitting in the corner where he belongs
Weapxn
Mikkelsexual
He'd be back with Amy Adams again though. I could see him possibly saying yes to this. Doubtful, but possible.
Fixed for you.
I think Routh Superman is busy stalking his half alien son.
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