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Batman vs Superman: World's Finest Three-Year Wait

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Effect

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Hmm, I think it's a good thing that they try to address the issues of MoS, but I hope they don't make things look silly while doing so.

I still feel and believe those weren't "issues". Events that should be addressed as they should impact other things or set certain things in motion yes but not something that should be apologized for, etc. MoS was the only superhero film that accurately depicted what a fight between near god-like beings would be like. Showed in live action what we've been seeing in the cartoons and comics for year. I hope they don't lose that in this film if there is someone that an challenge Superman like that again just to make a vocal minority here happy. Some of who can't let go of the Reeves Superman or claim they're "big" fans of Superman but don't really know much about him outside of those films.

I actually think some of those people are hypocrites as well. People focus on Superman seemingly killing Zod in Superman 2 at the very end in the fortress. They seem to easily forget the fight between Zod, Ursa, and Non in downtown Metropolis during what looked like night time rush hour. It's perhaps the big action set piece of Superman 2. That was limited by technology at the time though. It's really not that different from what happens in Man of Steel other then scale and special effects. Even that had debris falling on people. Superman and Zod fighting on the streets with people around them. Etc. It's the same fight in Man of Steel except that Superman fights Faora and what seems to be a Non parallel in Smallville instead of Metropolis where he just fights Zod. Deal with the fallout of that fight but not shy away from it or doing it again if the story calls for it.

Now some dialogue decisions, perhaps story pacing, color choices, etc those are issues I wouldn't mind them addressing and going in a different direction on. Not events that took place and took place for a reason.
 

Alienous

Member
I still feel and believe those weren't "issues". Events that should be addressed as they should impact other things or set certain things in motion yes but not something that should be apologized for, etc. MoS was the only superhero film that accurately depicted what a fight between near god-like beings would be like. Showed in live action what we've been seeing in the cartoons and comics for year. I hope they don't lose that in this film if there is someone that an challenge Superman like that again just to make a vocal minority here happy. Some of who can't let go of the Reeves Superman or claim they're "big" fans of Superman but don't really know much about him outside of those films.

I actually think some of those people are hypocrites as well. People focus on Superman seemingly killing Zod in Superman 2 at the very end in the fortress. They seem to easily forget the fight between Zod, Ursa, and Non in downtown Metropolis during what looked like night time rush hour. It's perhaps the big action set piece of Superman 2. That was limited by technology at the time though. It's really not that different from what happens in Man of Steel other then scale and special effects. Even that had debris falling on people. Superman and Zod fighting on the streets with people around them. Etc. It's the same fight in Man of Steel except that Superman fights Faora and what seems to be a Non parallel in Smallville instead of Metropolis where he just fights Zod. Deal with the fallout of that fight but not shy away from it or doing it again if the story calls for it.

Now some dialogue decisions, perhaps story pacing, color choices, etc those are issues I wouldn't mind them addressing and going in a different direction on. Not events that took place and took place for a reason.

When does Superman stop debris for falling on a baby in Man of Steel? "I've discovered his weakness. He actually cares for these 'Earth-people'". They actually stop the fight to establish that.

People aren't pulling the complaints out of their arse regarding MoS. It's not even comparable to Superman 2, even ignoring the budget and CG limitations.
 

KalBalboa

Banned
There have certainly been some pulled-out-of-ass complaints for Man of Steel that I've seen. The movie does get a lot of unjust criticisms from people who seem to want to either love everything or hate everything. It's not a perfect movie but there are some baffling volumes of negativity people try to pour on that movie to this day.

I also take issue with calling artistic, subjective decisions "flaws." A plot hole, unrealistic special effect, or conflicting motivations are more in line with what I would consider a genuine "flaw."

I actually prefer Man of Steel to Superman 2 when I take both movies in, even when I consider the Donner cut of 2. Superman 2 has some great moments but the more I watch it the more I see the studio politics behind it causing a mess of a final cut in a lot of ways.
 
I still feel and believe those weren't "issues". Events that should be addressed as they should impact other things or set certain things in motion yes but not something that should be apologized for, etc. MoS was the only superhero film that accurately depicted what a fight between near god-like beings would be like. Showed in live action what we've been seeing in the cartoons and comics for year. I hope they don't lose that in this film if there is someone that an challenge Superman like that again just to make a vocal minority here happy. Some of who can't let go of the Reeves Superman or claim they're "big" fans of Superman but don't really know much about him outside of those films.

I actually think some of those people are hypocrites as well. People focus on Superman seemingly killing Zod in Superman 2 at the very end in the fortress. They seem to easily forget the fight between Zod, Ursa, and Non in downtown Metropolis during what looked like night time rush hour. It's perhaps the big action set piece of Superman 2. That was limited by technology at the time though. It's really not that different from what happens in Man of Steel other then scale and special effects. Even that had debris falling on people. Superman and Zod fighting on the streets with people around them. Etc. It's the same fight in Man of Steel except that Superman fights Faora and what seems to be a Non parallel in Smallville instead of Metropolis where he just fights Zod. Deal with the fallout of that fight but not shy away from it or doing it again if the story calls for it.

Now some dialogue decisions, perhaps story pacing, color choices, etc those are issues I wouldn't mind them addressing and going in a different direction on. Not events that took place and took place for a reason.

Even if Snyder himself used it, that's kind of a straw man.

There are plenty of people who have no particular affection for the Reeve films and still hate Goyer's conception of the character. Myself included.
 
I3iIIOl.gif
 
I hope supes is the main focus. Bataman has been in the DC spotlight far too long, shows like Arrow and Flash show that audiences are receptive to other heroes ("DC only has batman" has been such bullshit for a long time).

Was really hoping for a teaser during The Hobbit guess that fell through :(.
 

Fuu

Formerly Alaluef (not Aladuf)
"I won't snap your neck, I'm going to take you to prison,"

Swanwick tells the military that Superman will move the battle away from populated areas because he's a hero, and that's what heroes do.

FSwaNLR.png


I refuse to believe those lines are in the movie.

People bitch and moan about Goyer for THAT NONSENSE!?!?!
Seriously, those are pretty lol-worthy. If those are in hopefully they're done like well-timed self-referential jokes or something.
 
When does Superman stop debris for falling on a baby in Man of Steel? "I've discovered his weakness. He actually cares for these 'Earth-people'". They actually stop the fight to establish that.

Which makes no sense, when one them can engage Supes directly to occupy him, while the other two go about murdering Metropolis. Ultimately in MoS Supes engaging Zod prevented more loss of life than trying to save people and not engaging Zod.
 
How is Supes the asshole?

Oh sorry mate, I was being sarcastic. I was kinda spoofing the anti-Man of Steel gripes about the movie ala "Because how dare Clark stop Zod from killing everyone on earth, Supes is an emo douche, This movie will be a train wreck, Snyder sucks waaaaaah." etc.

I actually appreciate the movie following up about the events that happens in MoS but I just hope they don't over do it. Like, if every villain or criminal that Supes catches is like "DON"T SNAP MY NECK" that would really bum me out.
 
Oh sorry mate, I was being sarcastic. I was kinda spoofing the anti-Man of Steel gripes about the movie ala "Because how dare Clark stop Zod from killing everyone on earth, Supes is an emo douche, This movie will be a train wreck, Snyder sucks waaaaaah." etc.

I actually appreciate the movie following up about the events that happens in MoS but I just hope they don't over do it. Like, if every villain or criminal that Supes catches is like "DON"T SNAP MY NECK" that would really bum me out.

I think Superman vs Luthor will go like this.

Supes, pick Lex up by the throat

Lex "Go ahead kill me, just like Zod, show the world who you really are"

Supes drops Lex to ground and begins laughing hysterically

Lex "What are you doing? What's so funny? Stop Laughing at me!"

Supes "Sorry, it's just that you honestly believe you're as dangerous as Zod, and that i'd have to stoop to killing you in order to save humanity. That's just too funny".

Supes continues to laugh hystrically. Enraged, Lex punches Supes, shattering his hand and succeeds in making Supes laugh harder.
 
When does Superman stop debris for falling on a baby in Man of Steel? "I've discovered his weakness. He actually cares for these 'Earth-people'". They actually stop the fight to establish that.

People aren't pulling the complaints out of their arse regarding MoS. It's not even comparable to Superman 2, even ignoring the budget and CG limitations.

they most certainly where doing plenty of ass-pull (lol) in regards to criticism. such as trying to pin the blame of ALL destruction on Superman.

Oh sorry mate, I was being sarcastic. I was kinda spoofing the anti-Man of Steel gripes about the movie ala "Because how dare Clark stop Zod from killing everyone on earth, Supes is an emo douche, This movie will be a train wreck, Snyder sucks waaaaaah." etc.

I actually appreciate the movie following up about the events that happens in MoS but I just hope they don't over do it. Like, if every villain or criminal that Supes catches is like "DON"T SNAP MY NECK" that would really bum me out.

although it would be cool to see criminals/villains be scared of Superman when he catches them. "please Mr. Superman, Sir! don't kill me! I won't do it again I promise!"
 
According to Joe Quesada, this means he was the hero of the movie.

Never mind how he intended to achieve the goal.

Why did they just terraform Mars? was there an explanation for that?
It's not like they needed a planet the size of Earth for all 6 of the Kryptonians that were left.
was it the existing atmosphere that made Earth perfect?
 

DaveH

Member
Why did[n't] they just terraform Mars? was there an explanation for that?
It's not like they needed a planet the size of Earth for all 6 of the Kryptonians that were left.
was it the existing atmosphere that made Earth perfect?

You can deduce it. We'll get to that, but...

Incidentally, you'd still need a planet about Earth-sized because you'd need that amount of gravity to hold an atmosphere and because the elements in nature which tend to make up planetary bodies are only so dense... and if you drive them towards being more dense to make up for the gravity, then you get unstable planets which will tend to blow-up (since you're compressing super-dense Uranium-like elements together) or collapse under or be torn apart by their own gravity.

If I weren't at work I could probably find them, but there are at least three YouTube videos on this... one on how Super Mario Galaxy's planetoids could never work, one that is a professor doing the math on Krypton's characteristics (based on the faulty assumption that Superman being able to leap over a skyscraper in 1938 shows their relative gravities, but not a big deal since his main point was to show math and science across multiple disciplines, not debunk Superman), and a recent Minute Physics or Minute Earth (maybe?) talking about what's required to successfully terraform and / or live on Mars or the Moon... Josh & Chuck from "Stuff You Should Know" also cover it in a recent podcast.

That's real-world science, but from the film you can deduce it from its internal logic.

When confronting any science fiction technology, remember it's technology and not magic. So it's bounded by rules. It's also fiction so we don't know what those rules are necessarily. It is an assumption that Mars is an eligible candidate for terraforming which may well be out of the bounds of those rules. If we use deduction, we can figure out the rules which would preclude Mars as a candidate.

Is terraforming easy?

If yes, the age of expansion wouldn't have failed, Krypton could have fled to a sister planet or living colonies.

If no, then we would expect to find dead colonies requiring full environmental suits to traverse, which is what we see.

Does Zod have unlimited tries?

If yes, then Krypton could have stopped mining its core and it wouldn't have died, if Phantom Drive technology provides unlimited energy. So it is a finite source. If he had unlimited jumps and attempts at using the World Engine, Zod could have restarted the colonies to use as headquarters to work from.

If no, we would expect Zod to use the World Engine sparingly... he would be confined to wandering on his ship for 33 years, which is what we see. He also couldn't pass up an opportunity like Earth.

Was Zod always going to terraform Earth?

If no, Jor-El couldn't convey a reliable plan to Lois, because his plan wouldn't work unless the Kryptonains spun-up the Phantom Drive... something they'd only do to power the World Engine (or to leave the solar system, in which case it is a non-issue). Lastly, Jor-El could have implored Zod towards segregation rather than, "Our people can co-exist."

If yes, it explains how Jor-El could predict Zod's actions, why Jor-El talks about co-existence, why Zod drops the pretense of treaty when interrogating Kal-El, and Earth's suitability explains why the Scout Ship was on Earth.

Why didn't Zod terraform Mars?

He can't.
 

DaveH

Member
I guess the whole Hobbit teaser thing didn't pan out?

Disney CEO Bob Iger to Variety said:
Disney nearly didn’t release a trailer, Iger admitted. Abrams is known for wanting to keep footage of his films under wraps. But the rabid “Star Wars” fanbase prompted Disney to come up with the brief introduction of what the new film would look like.

Source

Disney was doubting whether to do it for a film a year away and we're talking about a film that a year and a quarter away.
 

DonasaurusRex

Online Ho Champ
Why did they just terraform Mars? was there an explanation for that?
It's not like they needed a planet the size of Earth for all 6 of the Kryptonians that were left.
was it the existing atmosphere that made Earth perfect?

...what I really dont understand is how kryptonians died of anything when they got to earth...but I think I saw some dead bodies in the arctic ship that colonists used across the galaxy...

Ultimately they never reasonably explained why Zod knowing how fragile the codex was and the state of the future of krypton was....ignored that he was nigh unstoppable on earth as is...along with all his fellow kryptonians...many of which were warrior class. He then immediately begins weakening himself and fighting Kal El.

Why? Is he going some where? Does he have back up? No he's out numbered , out gunned and nothing on earth can stop the 20 or so kryptonians that are powered by our suns radiation. Though at one point of the move Jor El says his body will drink up our suns radiation, then in another part Zod says the atmosphere is harsher and blocks those effects. Either way if you had a goal, and find out wait...i CANNOT FAIL if things stay the way they are...why risk changing that before finding killing and obtaining the codex from Superman? THEN terra form after a campaign of destroying all other reasonable opposition. They dont have any issues a normal military force would have at that point, they dont get tired, sick, hungry, hurt, have no fear, are beyond reason in effectiveness. Why am i risking all that when I can do the codex and rebirth after i've subjected the planet??
 

Blader

Member
http://badassdigest.com/2014/12/15/find-out-supermans-situation-in-batman-v-superman/

New info Devin Faraci.

WARNING: MAJOR SPOILERS

Batman's origin will take place in the beginning of the film.

The script also seems to address the flaws of Man of Steel
neck snap.

lol, he's not kidding when he says the script will directly address MoS criticisms. Can't get any more direct than
a character outright saying "Superman doesn't do [thing he did last time]. Because he's Superman."
 
http://badassdigest.com/2014/12/15/find-out-supermans-situation-in-batman-v-superman/

New info Devin Faraci.

WARNING: MAJOR SPOILERS

Batman's origin will take place in the beginning of the film.

The script also seems to address the flaws of Man of Steel
neck snap.

This sounds awful

The movie should be about superman winning the people's trust, not some time skip and everything is normal, like some reset button. Not to mention that dialog. I find this hard to believe.
 
Why did they just terraform Mars? was there an explanation for that?

No, they leave it up to the viewer to be informed on how advanced malevolent aliens would treat humans. And for those not informed the relationship between Humans and an Advanced Malevolent alien race is the same as the relationship between a Human and Cockroach. Why would we not build our house in this particular spot,? Bugs you say? Exterminate them and build the house here anyway.
 

Platy

Member
Why did they just terraform Mars? was there an explanation for that?
It's not like they needed a planet the size of Earth for all 6 of the Kryptonians that were left.
was it the existing atmosphere that made Earth perfect?

As a speaker of a latin based language, I always find weird that they said "terraform" and not "kryptonform" earth
 

kunonabi

Member
Wait are people seriously mad at MoS because he killed Zod at the end?

yeah, although i found letting his dead die and passing judgement on an entire civilization to be much more egregious issues. I probably wouldn't be so irritated by it all if they hadn't gone on and on about him leading us into the light and and aspiring to be greater then solving the conflict in the same violent, selfish manner that we've been doing for centuries anyway.
 
yeah, although i found letting his dead die and passing judgement on an entire civilization to be much more egregious issues. I probably wouldn't be so irritated by it all if they hadn't gone on and on about him leading us into the light and and aspiring to be greater then solving the conflict in the same violent, selfish manner that we've been doing for centuries anyway.

And what were Supes' options for dealing with Zod?
 
yeah, although i found letting his dead die and passing judgement on an entire civilization to be much more egregious issues. I probably wouldn't be so irritated by it all if they hadn't gone on and on about him leading us into the light and and aspiring to be greater then solving the conflict in the same violent, selfish manner that we've been doing for centuries anyway.

I mean I know he was having this problem killing Zod.. But he wasn't heart broken for the thousands in the city because of him?

And another thing.. Why are people so mad about this? Superman fucking killed Zod in Superman 2. Why is it a problem now?
 
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