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Batman vs Superman: World's Finest Three-Year Wait
- Thread starter Marion Cobretti
- Start date
- Status
Simple. Jor-El says he designed it and we're told the reason the age of exploration ceased, an era pre-dating Jor-El, because "We exhausted our natural resources." So it's construction was utilitarian.
Except that was more or less complete before Zod makes landfall. So you found one task that doesn't even prevent that crew member from being freed up once they've assessed humanity. Congratulations?
Obviously, I disagree. I don't know how you'd show it otherwise. Zod killed a high council member just for questioning him. He's had 33 years to break them. His one and only concern in this respect is that they'd be disloyal once granted god-like powers. He can't share that thought with crew and it's hardly a thought to share with his enemies, so the film plays out exactly as it should.
Demonstrating stations that can be manned doesn't satisfy your burden to prove that all crew must be occupied. Particularly given Lois's playmates.
Actually, the armed security team is probably the best evidence of a risk of disloyalty because: Why does a 100% loyal ship need six plus armed guards (better for the away mission) for one incarcerated human and one powerless Kryptonian strapped to a table? Answer: The ship isn't 100% loyal, except because of the guards. The guards represent enforcement of Zod's will on the ship and why powerless Kryptonians would and do fall in line.
evil solrac v3.0
Member
Doomsday is strong, he can survive in space. he would eventually find a way to come back.
I liked it better when he was all mysterious and not a Russian Superman. meh.
but, he did save everyone. Zod promised him he would kill everyone, he was starting with that family but Superman saw that he was serious. what is so hard to get? there's nothing contrived about it. it's straightforward.
I'm old enough. you however get backed into a corner by your own weak arguments (if you can even call them that) and then want to take the ball and go home.
if you don't want to talk about the movie then don't, nobody is forcing you. if you want to talk about why Superman should have or should not have killed Zod then go ahead. but if all you want to do is argue that Superman should never kill and that it makes it a bad movie or scene then it's a pretty fruitless conversation don't you think?
Ninja Scooter
Member
or why Iron Man and Hulk didn't show up to help Captain America in Winter Soldier.
evil solrac v3.0
Member
if your argument is Superman shouldn't have killed Zod you need to say how. your argument can't boil down to "Superman is a hero and he shouldn't kill" or "the scene is contrived"
tell me what exactly would lead you to believe that Zod is going to pull up stakes and not follow through on his threats? Superman COULD have done many things to stop him without killing him.
but he didn't because he is young and inexperienced in this movie and in that moment his equal (or nearly equal) in power is trying to kill a family.
a different script might have Superman twist Zod's head away from the family but that's kind of hokey. and then we are back to the same problem: fighting Zod and trying to protect people.
what to do then? and if any of you notice, the fight started in an empty area and Zod was going into populated areas as Superman was trying to draw him away (he tossed him into space) but didn't succeed.
tell me what exactly would lead you to believe that Zod is going to pull up stakes and not follow through on his threats? Superman COULD have done many things to stop him without killing him.
but he didn't because he is young and inexperienced in this movie and in that moment his equal (or nearly equal) in power is trying to kill a family.
a different script might have Superman twist Zod's head away from the family but that's kind of hokey. and then we are back to the same problem: fighting Zod and trying to protect people.
what to do then? and if any of you notice, the fight started in an empty area and Zod was going into populated areas as Superman was trying to draw him away (he tossed him into space) but didn't succeed.
DonasaurusRex
Online Ho Champ
couldnt he have just put his hands over his eyes....i mean they re entered our atmosphere and didnt burn up I dont think it would've hurt him, then he could've let the family move out of the way.
The issue is that, yes, he could've saved that family in that exact moment without killing Zod. BUT there's nothing stopping Zod from targeting civilians again immediately after since he has now discovered Supes' Achilles Heel. Sure, Clark could stop him a few times, maybe many times, but they can't go on forever and continue to put people in danger. Supes realized this in that moment. He realized that, just like Zod said, there's only two possible endings to this fight. So he skipped to the conclusion.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Nope. He takes his hands off to reposition, Zod fries the family.
More_Badass
Member
There was no kryptonian atmosphere this time. No kryptonite. No phantom zone portal. No weakenesses. That fight was going to go on forever. How many more people would have died if Clark hadn't made that desperate decisive choice? Ok, he covered Zod's eyes then what? They keep pummel each other until Metropolis and every surrounding city was leveled? There was only one way that fight was ever going to end
BadAss2961
Member
So we're back to talking about the Zod kill? You'd think Superman is a cold-blooded murderer now.
The movie kinda goes out of it's way to show that Supes killing someone was a big deal that probably won't happen very often or ever again.
The movie kinda goes out of it's way to show that Supes killing someone was a big deal that probably won't happen very often or ever again.
kunonabi
Member
So what, there will magically be a solution for him subdue foes even more powerful than Zod like Darkseid and Doomsday? Stakes get raised, not lowered.
Sibersk Esto
Banned
How does it do that? The problem got solved. Everyone seemed pretty ok with it
Poodlestrike
Banned
The thing about Zod is that he deliberately forced the issue. Doomsday is (probably) just going to be an unthinking monster, and Darkseid frankly couldn't care less about trying to put Supes into a moral conundrum. The power levels rise, but the circumstances don't remain fixed.
Boombloxer
Member
Pretty much. I lurk this thread all the time, and when this came up again this morning, I bailed. Be back in Feb.
Marion Cobretti
Member
Yeah seriously, this needs to stop already.
Zod/Destruction people should make their own thread. There seems to be enough of you guys.
Zod/Destruction people should make their own thread. There seems to be enough of you guys.
unholyrevenger72
Banned
As i said earlier, Superman will reach his final form, God, and will be able to subdue enemies using deus ex machina
BadAss2961
Member
I doubt Darkseid will ever be killed. If it happens, it'll be by committee sometime far down the line.
Supes can 'kill' Doomsday. It's Doomsday's trait to just come back stronger anyway. If Death of Superman happens, they'll die together in battle.
Where most protagonists would end it with some sort of quip or confirmation of justice being done, Superman wept
Sibersk Esto
Banned
Why did he do that? He seemed pretty determined to stop Zod
BadAss2961
Member
Because he felt bad about doing it.
An easy character growth moment for this Superman would be to put him in that same situation again, and have him find another way. This is why we have sequels.
Wiktor
Member
I never understood the insistence on no kill rule. Superman has killed plenty of times and acting like this makes him any less of a hero is just plain stupid.Do those people think that a cop who kills a criminal holding hostages isn't a hero then?
Let's be honest..the only reason why any comics try to enforce the no kill rule is because they're endlessly running in place and can't afford to permanently off any good villain when he can be used at a later date. There's no other reason.
Let's be honest..the only reason why any comics try to enforce the no kill rule is because they're endlessly running in place and can't afford to permanently off any good villain when he can be used at a later date. There's no other reason.
unholyrevenger72
Banned
Seriously the Chituari Invasion is strait up Genocide, think of the all the Chitauri orphans. They didn't need to blow up the mothership, the portal was closing and the communications link would be severed disabling all of the Chitauri on Earth. Tony could have disabled the nuke with handy dandy hacking gizmo like the one he used on the Helicarrier
A better example is 'why does Cap not show up when the fucking President is kidnapped in Iron Man 3?' But eh, Marvel expects us to handwave this stuff.
I'm not against the Zod killing but I think Tony's were unintentional.
It's especially weird because we're meant to see Starlord as a rogue at first, but he does nothing that the superheroes haven't already done.
Lionel Mandrake
Member
unholyrevenger72
Banned
Yeah, what a klutz.
They're just sleeping...
Yeah, what a klutz.
I was thinking about the Stane and Vanko deaths. I think the real reason people don't critisize Tony is because people put Supes on a higher moral pedestal. Tony was a selfish war profitier so the moment in that gif is a moral improvement for him.
Which could be fine when dealing with a fully established Superman with years of experience. Man of Steel was purposefully showing him at the very beginning of his career. It's a film where he had the suit for what seem liked a day at the least and less then a week at max at depending how long he took to get home to Smallville. This is something some critics refuse to acknowledge or even allow for the idea that Superman wouldn't (really shouldn't be else he has no room to grow) be perfect in is early days when that's been a story thread that's been used before in other media.
Sibersk Esto
Banned
Honestly making it look like he felt bad about it was probably the wrong move. I'm not saying they should have given him a bond one liner or made it look like it felt good but having him doesn't make much sense. Nothing about his character made it seem like he had an explicit problem with killing. He already lasered the kryptonian baby pod things, he initiated a plan that more or less killed the other kryptonians, and he already told Zod he was gonna stop him after the whole skull mountain (dumb) hallucination. Why did he feel bad? What connection did he have to Zod? He knew he was a bad guy like way before Zod came to earth.
"Now that's what I call a twist ending."
MoS had a half-baked script, that's all there is to it.
E the Shaggy
Junior Member
Tony Stark isn't Superman.
Your question is literally, why should one man feel bad about killing another man.
Yeah, what a klutz.
Tony doesn't give a fuck about killing terrorists. He's rational like that.
Sibersk Esto
Banned
Why should he after he just spent the last 10 minutes saying stuff like "You're a monster, I'm gonna stop you," and scraping his face all over the walls
or (preemptively) discuss where Spiderman was during all of this.
"I'm going to stop you" isn't "I'm going to kill you." And even if it is, I have to assume there's a very significant difference between saying you're going to kill somebody and then actually breaking their neck.
Dirtyshubb
Member
Because Clark spent his life wanting to help and save people, add in all the lessons his dad taught him about rising above bullies and I think its a pretty fair portrayal.
You also have to remember that not everyone agrees with killing in any scenario, just because people like us can sit back and watch a film and think If I was there, I would just kill that fool, doesnt mean most people (or even us) could do it if we were ACTUALLY in that situation with the real fear of death/danger/potential loss of loved ones.
Hey guys...
This should've been posted PAGES ago, Lol.
hammertomb
Banned
I bet wonder woman is going to break up the fight.
Why didn't she break up the fight between Zod and Supes? And where was Aquaman when Superman was fighting the world machine?
kunonabi
Member
considering his dad wanted him to let a bunch of a children die and committed suicide in front of him I don't think his lessons are really that helpful in making a Superman with any real adversion to killing his enemies. Nothing about the MoS Jonathan puts Clark on the path to being the Superman that some of us were hoping for.
hammertomb
Banned
I could probably see a scenario where the people of Themyscira send her as a diplomat to offer help after they see what zod did to metropolis or maybe zeus resurects her from clay in the middle of the movie. Man i hope this movie turns out good.
The rumored timeline goes like this:
- Wonder Woman arrives in WWII
- WW saves people on WWII and becomes a myth
- WW dissapears
- Batman appears in the 90's but is never photographed. Probably not an urban myth as rumored, he's just never seen in person (just as we didn't see a single leaked Batman image in 8 months of filming)
- Zod arrives. MoS happens.
- Bruce Wayne is in Metropolis during the fight, he becames fearsome of Superman.
- Lex Luthor rebuilds Metropolis along with BW.
- Wonder woman reappears and Lex recognizes her from WWII photographs. Starts investigating metahumans.
- Aquaman.. well, there are two versions: Aquaman becomes pissed off at the surface because the world engine damages the ocean OR Aquaman is created during the world engine.
So WW probably returns to Temschyra at the end of her solo movie.
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