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[DeathyBoy]

I would have preferred superman not to kill, it only becomes an issue for me if they ignore the consequences of it and don't address it in BvS or if they just have him keep killing. Superman shouldn't be ok with killing (he obviously wasn't at the end of MoS), but when the situation absolutely calls for it he should be able to make that choice. Leave the unrealistic ultimate Kantianism to Batman. I'm curious to see what WW will be like, she's usually less adverse to killing (but still doesn't revel in it).

I always saw it as:

Batman doesn't kill because at heart he's still a child who believes in right and wrong.
Superman will kill as a last resort (see Doomsday) but will otherwise look for another solution.
Wonder Woman will kill anyone who can't be reasoned with.

 

[Gleethor]

I always saw it as:

Batman doesn't kill because at heart he's still a child who believes in right and wrong.
Superman will kill as a last resort (see Doomsday) but will otherwise look for another solution.
Wonder Woman will kill anyone who can't be reasoned with.

Yup, If the movies follow this they'll be fine.

 

[Sibersk Esto]

I thought Batman didn't kill because he's worried he'll turn into a psycho who won't stop

That's what he tells everyone anyway

 

[DeathyBoy]

I thought Batman didn't kill because he's worried he'll turn into a psycho who won't stop

That's what he tells everyone anyway

Yes, but that's a childish way of looking at the world. Which fits with Bruce's character. I mean he's friends with multiple people who kill and didn't turn into Mr F.

 

[Schweinehund]

I thought Batman didn't kill because he's worried he'll turn into a psycho who won't stop

That's what he tells everyone anyway

You probably already know this but there's a handful of reasons he says he doesn't, the latest was kind of absurd.

I think it was in Death of a family, he says he's afraid to kill joker because someone else even crazier/more powerful will replace him. He has used the slippery slope argument, the "it's what seperates good guys from bad guys" and some people claim he's psychologically incapable of killing (which seems to be false, he almost dipped a dude in acid recently (think it was a 2011-2012 B&R issue) because he came close to killing Damian). I do think Batman does take a certain amount of joy inflicting pain in people (criminals) though.

Anyway, I guess there is a point where Batman will kill. He definitely shot Darkseid with intent to kill.

 

[unholyrevenger72]

Batman doesn't kill because at heart he believes the system does work in one capacity, that it's society's decision to decide who's guilty and what punishment is handed down.

Superman will kill when villains of equal or greater power force the matter (see Doomsday, Zod) but will otherwise look for another solution, because he views the killing of lesser beings even those that would do him harm as an abuse of his godlike power.

Wonder Woman will kill anyone who can't be reasoned with, and those who contend with her on the battlefield.

Amended for my view

 

[Penguin]

Oh Yahoo!

I was checking my Fantasy football team, and then quickly saw Batman v Superman Trailer leaked... like how is that possible and the interwebs isn't ablaze

http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/5765...man-dawn-justice-trailer-plot.htm#.VJYL9V4AOA

This is the article which says there's no actual evidence of it being online just a description.

 

[Lionel Mandrake]

I think it's bullshit. Apparently it's all sourced back to some random guy on 4chan.

 

[Penguin]

I think it's bullshit. Apparently it's all sourced back to some random guy on 4chan.

Oh, it is completely BS

Funny that it is on Yahoo was my point

 

[Sibersk Esto]

yeah sounds like bullshit

 

[ReiGun]

I always saw it as:

Batman doesn't kill because he believes there is hope within the system and doesn't want to contribute to the cycle of violence that took his parents from him. He has a black/white view of morality and killing is wrong no matter what.
Superman will kill as an absolute last resort (see Doomsday) but will always look for another solution because deep down, he's just a cornfed farmboy who values the sanctity of life and would hate to have someone else's blood on his hands.
Wonder Woman will kill anyone who can't be reasoned with because she was rised to be a warrior and a pragmatist. However, she despises violence outside enjoying fighting for sport, and will always search for peaceful resolution even with her enemies.

Edited for...well basically what you said, but elaborated on a bit.

 

[strafer]

if there's one trailer that will not be leaked it's this one.

I bet they keep that fucker locked in Fort Knox.

 

[Lokimaru]

That superman can't help but turn evil when faced with the loss of a loved one paints him as an incredibly weak minded character. It's something countless heroes have had to face and get over without turning to world domination.

But that's just it, Joker said he wanted to go up against Superman cause it'd be like easy mode after facing Batman all those years, but he played easy mode with a Maxed Out character. The stuff he did to Supes was beyond anything he ever did to Batman's people, and it ultimately got him killed.

Now on the flip side we have Batman who's really just as crazy as the Joker but for Justice. Superman kept taking every thing that made his life meaningful away. He killed the Joker, locked the Arkham inmates in a more secure facility and ended all conflict around the world. Of course Batman would fixate on bringing Superman down, What else does he have to do with his day?

 

[Ahasverus]

if there's one trailer that will not be leaked it's this one.

I bet they keep that fucker locked in Fort Knox.

The secrecity about this movie is incredible. Truly commendable. By this time of TDKR we already had the plot and the secret villain.

 

[More_Badass]

But that's just it, Joker said he wanted to go up against Superman cause it'd be like easy mode after facing Batman all those years, but he played easy mode with a Maxed Out character. The stuff he did to Supes was beyond anything he ever did to Batman's people, and it ultimately got him killed.

Now on the flip side we have Batman who's really just as crazy as the Joker but for Justice. Superman kept taking every thing that made his life meaningful away. He killed the Joker, locked the Arkham inmates in a more secure facility and ended all conflict around the world. Of course Batman would fixate on bringing Superman down, What else does he have to do with his day?

What story was this?

 

[Game4life]

What story was this?

Injustice Gods Among us Year One

 

[Lokimaru]

What story was this?

Beaten

 

[Poodlestrike]

What story was this?

Injustice.

 

[Compbros]

I like the way that Superman/Joker was handled in Adventures of Superman #40, I think it's a much better look at both characters than Injustice. Regardless, the Superman in Injustice is from an alternate universe, one where Wonder Woman openly supports him reigning over mankind which is very against the core of WoWo. On top of that it wasn't just "the loss of Lois" as he lost Lois, his unborn child, and the city of Metropolis and he caused it all so it's more understandable than....what was that story where Lois "died" and Supes went crazy? Can't remember. Anyway, I don't think Lois dying would be enough for the mainline Supes' to go nuts or depressed forever.

 

[NeonZ]

If they ever wanted to turn Superman into a dangerous dictator I dont know how it could happen without Superman feeling some kind of immense personal loss. They chose Lois and the child as a possible driver. Otherwise the writers could have chosen the Kent family I suppose. Whatever it was it had to be triggered by personal loss.

Technically, in Injustice it was both. Don't forget that right after those deaths you had the

Spoiler

American government teaming up with super villains to kidnap the Kents in order to keep Superman under control before he even had done anything unusual aside from killing the Joker and disappearing for a few days.

I like the way that Superman/Joker was handled in Adventures of Superman #40, I think it's a much better look at both characters than Injustice.

You mean the story that ends with Joker going away but promising to come back with something bigger and better than ever? Really, I thought that story read almost like it were part of the Injustice universe. Give them the Injustice designs and you've got an Injustice prequel without changing anything else. It's not really what I'd consider a good take on either character.

 

[Game4life]

Technically, in Injustice it was both. Don't forget that right after those deaths you had the

Spoiler

American government teaming up with super villains to kidnap the Kents in order to keep Superman under control before he even had done anything unusual aside from killing the Joker and disappearing for a few days.

Yeah this is a good point. Superman was most certainly not an outright villain in year one.

 

[Schweinehund]

What story was this?

Like others have said, injustice, but I think he said something similar in Superman TAS about him being easier to manipulate.

I like the way that Superman/Joker was handled in Adventures of Superman #40, I think it's a much better look at both characters than Injustice. Regardless, the Superman in Injustice is from an alternate universe, one where Wonder Woman openly supports him reigning over mankind which is very against the core of WoWo. On top of that it wasn't just "the loss of Lois" as he lost Lois, his unborn child, and the city of Metropolis and he caused it all so it's more understandable than....what was that story where Lois "died" and Supes went crazy? Can't remember. Anyway, I don't think Lois dying would be enough for the mainline Supes' to go nuts or depressed forever.

He didn't really go crazy immediately, he just instantly killed the joker. His totalitarian thing spiraled out of control pretty quick, it's not very convincing but it is entertaining (until he killed Billy ). Other two occasions where Lois died, Kal-L was manipulated during Infinite Crisis into almost sacrificing an entire universe and Kingdom Come superman retired (not because of Lois though, because people wanted a hero that killed aka Magog). I don't think it would break him but he would be sad for awhile.

 

[Compbros]

You mean the story that ends with Joker going away but promising to come back with something bigger and better than ever? Really, I thought that story read almost like it were part of the Injustice universe. Give them the Injustice designs and you've got an Injustice prequel without changing anything else. It's not really what I'd consider a good take on either character.

Joker can say what he likes, the scope of a Joker plan isn't really something that Supes can't handle for the most part (Emperor Joker was something completely different lol). It was basically them breaking each other down, showing why Joker isn't as big of a threat to Superman as others, and he, believes and how Supes would handle Joker. For Injustice you had this grandiose Joker plan that involved a nuke, kryponite laced fear gas, and all this other nonsense. Injustice showed a Joker plan that will rarely ever be matched in anything else and a single-minded and incompetent Superman.

 

[The One and Done™]

I thought MoS was an awesome movie and I'm totally ok with him killing Zod unlike those crazy Superman Birthers.

 

[Compbros]

Like others have said, injustice, but I think he said something similar in Superman TAS about him being easier to manipulate.



He didn't really go crazy immediately, he just instantly killed the joker. His totalitarian thing spiraled out of control pretty quick, it's not very convincing but it is entertaining (until he killed Billy ). Other two occasions where Lois died, Kal-L was manipulated during Infinite Crisis into almost sacrificing an entire universe and Kingdom Come superman retired (not because of Lois though, because people wanted a hero that killed aka Magog). I don't think it would break him but he would be sad for awhile.

The road to hell, Supes lost it the moment he killed Joker, he sat around for X amount of time watching the World while still having Joker's blood on him. Eventually he did just go batshit insane but he snapped long before he

Spoiler

killed Ollie

.


Edit: Wasn't there a comic where someone tricks Supes into thinking Lois is dead? An hallucination or something?

 

[unholyrevenger72]

if there's one trailer that will not be leaked it's this one.

I bet they keep that fucker locked in Fort Knox.

It's on USB stick, in the Batcave Vault next Bats' Kryptonite Collection

 

[NeonZ]

Joker can say what he likes, the scope of a Joker plan isn't really something that Supes can't handle for the most part (Emperor Joker was something completely different lol). It was basically them breaking each other down, showing why Joker isn't as big of a threat to Superman as others, and he, believes and how Supes would handle Joker.

It also shows a Superman that provoked the Joker in spite of acknowledging him as dangerous, a Batman worried about Superman compromising himself, and a Superman that promised to kill the Joker if he appeared in Metropolis again. Also, during the comic, you basically get Superman explaining his abilities to the Joker too. Obviously seeing it as a prequel to Injustice goes against the author's intentions of showing how the Joker wasn't a threat to Superman, but the Superman he built there seems to have all the flaws that could lead to an Injustice scenario.

 

[Rastafarian42]

I like the way that Superman/Joker was handled in Adventures of Superman #40, I think it's a much better look at both characters than Injustice. Regardless, the Superman in Injustice is from an alternate universe, one where Wonder Woman openly supports him reigning over mankind which is very against the core of WoWo. On top of that it wasn't just "the loss of Lois" as he lost Lois, his unborn child, and the city of Metropolis and he caused it all so it's more understandable than....what was that story where Lois "died" and Supes went crazy? Can't remember. Anyway, I don't think Lois dying would be enough for the mainline Supes' to go nuts or depressed forever.

Yeah Max Landis wrote that particular story I enjoyed it as well really loved the character interaction between the two. Landis has a really good take on Superman surprised he didn't try to write the script for BvS.

 

[Schweinehund]

Yeah Max Landis wrote that particular story I enjoyed it as well really loved the character interaction between the two. Landis has a really good take on Superman surprised he didn't try to write the script for BvS.

They really need to get an online comic subscription service going. So many series to read, it's pretty much a hopeless and costly endeavor to get backissues of pre 2000 comics.

 

[DonasaurusRex]

Batman could. Flash too. Point is, they don't turn evil

I know batman has a plan for the heavy hitters of the justice league so maybe he could make some noise, but what is he gonna do now that no one is there to stop black adam? Or what will he do with Icon, Slade would have a contract for him as well if he made that play.

We at least know for sure that Darkseid would die in the opening panels along with all this sectors GL's. Wonder Woman keeps getting more and more powerful as well as time goes by, i think she's beat up some of the gods (coughCaptainMarvelripoffcough)

 

[IconGrist]

Yea, I'd whoop his ass. >_>

 

[Fezan]

Actually the best super man story wad in animated series where he was a pav keeper but not outright dictator.

 

[Blader]

The secrecity about this movie is incredible. Truly commendable. By this time of TDKR we already had the plot and the secret villain.

eh, I we know a good amount of what'll be in this movie already. I think there were fewer leaks on TDKR, but a lot more educated guesses that turned out to be right (e.g. Cotillard being Talia).

 

[Ahasverus]

eh, I we know a good amount of what'll be in this movie already. I think there were fewer leaks on TDKR, but a lot more educated guesses that turned out to be right (e.g. Cotillard being Talia).

Educated guesses you say?

 

[Schweinehund]

Shazam confirmed same universe finally, but not directly. Hopefully we get a casting soon and the inevitable Shazam vs Superman fight in Justice League 2 .

http://www.dccomics.com/blog/2014/1...ros-announces-its-dc-entertainment-film-slate

That changed on October 15, 2014, when Warner Bros. revealed a full slate of ten DC Entertainment feature films all set within the same universe.

The movie is 4 years away. It'll be two years before we see a cast announcement and Billy will be cast as close to filming as possible.

The main reason I feel the casting will be sooner is because they scooped up The Rock pretty quick, Black Adam probably won't be in any films until Shazam (though I wouldn't mind a JL cameo). I have no idea who they would cast for Billy/Shazam but I'd imagine they'd want to get it locked down quickly before anyone else picks them up.

 

[unholyrevenger72]

Hopefully we get a casting soon

The movie is 4 years away. It'll be two years before we see a cast announcement and Billy will be cast as close to filming as possible.

 

[DaveH]

I think you may be reading too much into Tim Beedle's sloppy article writing. He works for DC, but doesn't really have an inside track on whether or not Shazam is in-universe or not... he's merely commenting on the slate, but not considering the import of claiming they're all in the same universe.

 

[Poodlestrike]

Wait, was Shazam being in the same universe in question?

 

[DaveH]

Wait, was Shazam being in the same universe in question?

Yes, for a number of reasons.

First, it is the only film in the slate being produced by New Line (a WB subsidiary) as opposed to Warner Brothers.

Second, New Line president Toby Emmerich made some comments to EW stating, “It feels to me like Shazam will have a tone unto itself. It’s a DC comic, but it’s not a Justice League character, and it’s not a Marvel comic. The tone and the feeling of the movie will be different from the other range of comic book movies.” which tended to imply he's outside the continuity.

Third, just the general story and mythos considerations of Shazam probably working better alone and what adding two flying super-bricks to the DCCU would mean to Superman and the League.

 

[Schweinehund]

Meh, he directly mentioned it being a new line film a paragraph before, then restated the 10 movies being in universe. New 52 shazam is a bit more different from supes power wise, he's more about lightning and magic then his previous incarnations have been. Couple this with them pushing the exact same JL lineup in the live action films as there are in the animation and comics and I think it's good enough to rule out any doubt that he's in universe.

We're trying to attach a "style" to dc films when we've only seen just Man of Steel. If it's anything like flash and arrow, they'll have their own unique tone for each character and they'll work just fine in a connected universe.

 

[DaveH]

Meh, he directly mentioned it being a new line film a paragraph before, then restated the 10 movies being in universe.

Which is why I said sloppy article writing. The article he's linking to and citing doesn't say anything about them all being in the same universe. I just think you're attaching too much weight to his use of "all" when he doesn't have a source or authority to back that up.

Couple this with them pushing the exact same JL lineup in the live action films as there are in the animation and comics and I think it's good enough to rule out any doubt that he's in universe.

I think that's off. If was the animation then Aquaman would be off the team and Shazam would be guaranteed. I think you're missing the more obvious initial New 52 line-up where Aquaman is plainly on the team and Shazam was a back-up feature in the book, but not a team member yet.

We're trying to attach a "style" to dc films when we've only seen just Man of Steel.

It's not me, it's the president of the guy in charge of developing Shazam! He says, "It feels to me like Shazam will have a tone unto itself . . . . but it’s not a Justice League character..." So the guy who has authority over Shazam, who has an inside track on what it will be like, and likely has an inside track on what Justice League will be like, says that "Shazam [is] not a Justice League character" on the record to Entertainment Weekly.

I think that's cause for more than a little doubt.

 

[Schweinehund]

Which is why I said sloppy article writing. The article he's linking to and citing doesn't say anything about them all being in the same universe. I just think you're attaching too much weight to his use of "all" when he doesn't have a source or authority to back that up.

Does he really need a source if he's a long time writer for the offical DC comics webpage? This isn't a fan, it's a person employed at DC.

I think that's off. If was the animation then Aquaman would be off the team and Shazam would be guaranteed. I think you're missing the more obvious initial New 52 line-up where Aquaman is plainly on the team and Shazam was a back-up feature in the book, but not a team member yet.

Aquaman is definitely on the team in their animated adaptions.

Shazam being a backup to the Justice League only lends to the idea that he is a part of the the justice league. They could easily have slotted him in action comics or the superman solo if they wanted to, but Johns put him as a Justice League backup because he wanted him to be a core member of the Justice League in this iteration.

It's not me, it's the president of the guy in charge of developing Shazam! He says, "It feels to me like Shazam will have a tone unto itself . . . . but it’s not a Justice League character..." So the guy who has authority over Shazam, who has an inside track on what it will be like, and likely has an inside track on what Justice League will be like, says that "Shazam [is] not a Justice League character" on the record to Entertainment Weekly.

I think that's cause for more than a little doubt.

He also mentions he's not a marvel character. The whole quote is in relation to the tone of the character, not his relation to other heroes in terms of canon.

It would just seem odd to me to announce a slate of hero movies, have one of them not be related to the others, and not announce that is a separate project like they are with justice league dark and sandman.

 

[Sibersk Esto]

But sandman is still separate right?

 

[DaveH]

It would just seem odd to me to announce a slate of hero movies, have one of them not be related to the others, and not announce that is a separate project like they are with justice league dark and sandman.

We can go back and forth on supposition, but for now we just don't know. I'm not rooting against your hopes, I'm just saying I don't think we have anything dispositive yet.

I don't consider the announcement odd at all, because I don't consider the slate announcement to be- necessarily- a declaration of a universe- but simply DC Branded films that have greenlit... to the extent that they're willing to make an official announcement. Despite knowing Dark Universe and Sandman are in development, the WB hasn't made a commitment in the form of an official announcement yet.

Shazam was simply grouped with the rest because it's a convenient and logical place to make the announcement along with all the other media that was coming out.

For example, I don't think that Ninjago is necessarily going to be in the same universe as LEGO Movie 2 and we don't know if The LEGO Batman Movie is in the same universe necessarily, but nonetheless they're all announced together because they fall under the LEGO brand umbrella.

Or, when they talk about TV or Animation, they talk about all the announced projects together, simply because they fit under the same topical umbrella... not because they share a universe. They simply share a medium.

So Shazam shares a medium and a brand, which is more than enough reason to group it, and would make it weird to separate it out into its own announcement, even if it's coming from a different studio, which they also go out of their way to mention.

 

[Schweinehund]

But sandman is still separate right?

Still seems to be the case.

Regardless of Shazam being in universe, I'll be surprised if it even gets made at this point. Think they've been fooling around with the idea since before even the dark knight. If JL doesn't perform as expected it'll probably be killed off.

 

[a916]

I think that's off. If was the animation then Aquaman would be off the team and Shazam would be guaranteed. I think you're missing the more obvious initial New 52 line-up where Aquaman is plainly on the team and Shazam was a back-up feature in the book, but not a team member yet.

I think that's cause for more than a little doubt.

I was under the strong impression that Shazam was a stand-in for Green Lantern. (considering an actor hasn't been announced and Green Lantern kind of goes MIA in the JL new 52 and Green Lantern still has a some very bad vibes).

It would also be stupid AF if they keep Dwayne Johnson locked out of the JL universe.

 

[strafer]

Pretty cool take

 

[Miles Quaritch]

So when can we expect a teaser/trailer to hit cinemas?

There wasn't one in front of Hobbit, doesn't appear to be one in front of Exodus. Maybe in front of Mockingjay part 2?

 

[Schweinehund]

Some kingdom come vibes, hope he switches to red/yellow in his next solo film. Black just doesn't feel right still.

So when can we expect a teaser/trailer to hit cinemas?

There wasn't one in front of Hobbit, doesn't appear to be one in front of Exodus. Maybe in front of Mockingjay part 2?

Popular rumor is Jupiter Ascending. This seems appropriate anyway, about a year before BvS releases to start the hype train.

 

[Poodlestrike]

Pretty cool take

Eh... I think I prefer the original. No trunks > trunks, and the black symbol is offputting.