Sibersk Esto
Banned
I always found that aspect of movie Thor to be unnecessary. It adds nothing to the character that wouldn't have been there if he was just a Norse God.
Also making her specifically Kryptonian would be a big mistake.
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Batman vs Superman: World's Finest Three-Year Wait
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Also making her specifically Kryptonian would be a big mistake.
Unspeakable Evil
Member
BadAss2961
Member
Exactly what I wanted from this movie.
Just let her be Wonder Woman right out of the gate, then go from there.
m_shortpants
Member
I can see Momoa as Aquaman now. Just not sure how they'll handle his origins.
Ninja Scooter
Member
He's a mild mannered aquarium maintenance man who falls in love with a dolphin and when they have sex that grants him his powers.
Father_Brain
Banned
While that could be the approach they're taking to the character (and I hope it is, give what seems to be the size of the role,) I don't see how the bolded confirms it. Especially if, as the same rumor has it, most of her screen time is in the Diana Prince identity.
That Aquaman costume is too busy. They should keep it sleek and simple, something like his Emperor Aquaman look from Flashpoint.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I don't think it really matters all that much one way or the other. It's an easy way to "ground" it and then essentially ignore it later, just like they did with Thor. And she wouldn't be specifically Kryptonian in that case. She'd be descended from half Kryptonian/half humans. She would have been born here, to parents who are from here. Essentially - Supergirl would be the mother of the Amazonians
Which yeah - whatever. Superhero bullshit. I also like the idea that they're going to use Shazam to introduce the idea of magic and supernatural elements, and then they're going to go full blast with Amazons (in the classic sense) existing and then there you go. I'd prefer that, honestly. But either of those two options are fine, with me. Shit is going to get changed, regardless. The only superhero film I can think of that made the leap to the big screen relatively intact is Watchmen, and even then - there were some significant changes.
edit: random nitpicky bullshit - I hate the term "manips." Has always bugged me.
RedBaron17
Member
Oh man, I had no idea Khal Drogo was in this movie. I really hope this movie delivers.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Also, as per Jeff Parker - a Trident with 5 tines is no longer a TRIdent. It's a Quintadent or whatever.
Father_Brain
Banned
Er, so where do the Greek gods and other mythological beings fit in? Were they created by Kryptonian technology? Do you see them as just extraneous detail?
I don't think it really matters all that much one way or the other. It's an easy way to "ground" it and then essentially ignore it later, just like they did with Thor. And she wouldn't be specifically Kryptonian in that case. She'd be descended from half Kryptonian/half humans. She would have been born here, to parents who are from here. Essentially - Supergirl would be the mother of the Amazonians
First, I'm not sure what the bolded is referring to.
Secondly, and admittedly speaking anecdotally, I don't really know anyone who's thrilled with how hard Marvel has pushed the "they're highly advanced aliens, not supernatural beings" angle with the Asgardians. It's not something I'd encourage WB to emulate.
Thirdly, while I'm not a huge fan of it, the MCU Thor approach does nothing in itself to radically change any of the Asgard-associated characters or place them off-limits. It's quite different than what you're suggesting, which is a frankly awful square-peg-in-round-hole approach that I hope WB is smarter than to attempt.
DonasaurusRex
Online Ho Champ
I think most everyone is ignoring that bullshit with Thor, sometimes its a cool idea but they cut out a huge amt of classic aspects of Journey Into Mystery doing it that way.
Father_Brain
Banned
If anything, I'd say the MCU hasn't ignored it enough. Turning Malekith and the Dark Elves into futuristic aliens with spacecraft and laser guns was stupid, but that didn't inherently follow from making the Asgardians extraterrestrials.
Cav-El
Unspeakable Evil
Member
Also works
Bobby Roberts
Banned
They don't? It's not like any of this shit is real. If the Greek Gods present a problem, just excise them, or treat them like Man of Steel treated Clark's christianity. He prays to Jesus, she talks to Zeus. Either way - they're just a proud warrior race of superwomen. Done. Again - superhero movie bullshit. There's ways around it.
Neither would this. Any "square-peg/round-hole" shit can be easily handwaved away, and once it's established (more for the sake of the scared executives than for any audience member, I assure you) it can be safely ignored or shoved to the back as the storytelling moves forward, as Marvel's essentially done with Thor.
Again, I'm not ADVOCATING it. I already said in the post you quoted that I'd prefer just allowing all the crazy shit in there. But so far as a workaround goes - making Amazonians descendents of some kryptonian from 10,000 years ago isn't that bad. Especially since it would exists solely to give a quick explanation as to why she can throw down next to Superman and then wouldn't be touched on further.
It's funny in that a lot of people are constantly advocating that WB needs to be smarter, and to be smarter, they need to look to Marvel, but the one instance in which WB almost directly copying from Marvel's playbook would be easy and actually WOULD apply to their cinematic universe, is also the one instance that fans are like "Whoa, wait, what, fuck that."
Why does every Cyborg and Aquaman fanart look like complete shit? Especially the Cyborg ones, they are just so adamant about forcing that comic/cartoon look into a live action setting and it looks fucking ridiculous.
Just_myles
Member
Father_Brain said:
Well you know, the comics have toiled with this back and forth for decades, are Asgardians aliens or are they supernatural beings. I honestly felt they were the former as this makes the most sense to me and there is nothing wrong with them being 'super beings'. I never liked the supernatural origins because I feel that is the only reason why Thor's power rating is so high because we can't quantify that or, at least make sense out of it because at any time he can do a god blast or use the 'odin force', or rather tap some hidden power within the odin force(so glad MCU is not mentioning this).
MCU Thor could use a power boost, but I rather have him this way. Plus a lot of Kirby's designs of asgard would point to a 'super' science civilization anyway.
In regards to BvS, I am all for them using previous kryptonian refugees as Amazonians/Atlanteans. Doesn't that fall in line with their 'ground in reality' edict they have been using?
Well to be fair, Cyborg is just not a well designed character
Only version really dug was the Teen Titans design
And that was really simple
Father_Brain
Banned
Excising the Greek mythological elements destroys the most distinctive aspects of the character. It would be only a slight exaggeration to say WB might as well have made Superman the result of a genetic experiment on Earth or had Bruce Wayne raised by his parents. Yes, there were certainly long periods in WW's history where the mythological elements were downplayed in favor of making her essentially a female Superman, but who really praises those stories today?
Note that this does not mean that Olympus or whatnot needs to appear onscreen in BvS. Just that that angle shouldn't be ignored, assuming her origin is actually addressed to any degree.
Again, what about Marvel's initial approach to Thor has been ignored or shoved to the back? The ending of Thor 1? If anything, they've strayed too far for my taste from casting the Asgardians et al. as out-and-out fantasy characters.
It's funny in that a lot of people are constantly advocating that WB needs to be smarter, and to be smarter, they need to look to Marvel, but the one instance in which WB almost directly copying from Marvel's playbook would be easy and actually WOULD apply to their cinematic universe, is also the one instance that fans are like "Whoa, wait, what, fuck that."
Well, your problem is that you're arguing with a straw man. That I am considerably more sold on the MCU than I am on what I've seen/know of WB's approach to a shared DC film universe doesn't mean that I think everything Marvel has done is laudable and worthy of emulation.
...and again, making the Amazons a lost tribe of Kryptonians wouldn't be "directly copying from Marvel's playbook," because it's a much more drastic and fundamental change than anything they've done with Thor.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
If I wasn't talking about you with that last paragraph then why even respond to it with your personal feelings on a "straw man" whose clothes don't fit you?
The thing with Wonder Woman is that nobody really praises ANY of her stories. Even the good ones. She's a complete blank slate for 95% of the people who will be watching her in Batman v Superman and Justice League. Adhering to her Greek Roots (which I would very much like) isn't anywhere near as important as adhering to Batman or Superman's origins, mostly because the confusion caused by changing those origins is quantifiable, thanks to the 75 years worth of time in the public spotlight to a degree Wonder Woman has never enjoyed, unfortunately. Unfair as shit, yes, but you can do whatever you want with Wonder Woman's origin right now and it won't fuckin matter to the vast majority of the people who see her in the film.
So they can either change the Greek Gods to basically be half-human/half-kryptonian hybrids in the ancient past whom regular folks turned into "gods" and told myths about, or they can keep them as mythological, magical deities.
It doesn't really matter either way, honestly, unless the Wonder Woman movie, when it comes about, is going to be some heady, way-out-there Clash of the Titans like action/adventure, and I don't see that as likely. So if they're not going to address her origin, the only real question they need to answer is "why is she superpowered," which can be answered either way. Hell, I hope they just don't even ask the question. It's long past time for these filmmakers to understand audiences are good with taking for granted the idea that Superheroes exist. You don't NEED to fuckin' explain it so much anymore.
krypt0nian
Banned
I can't see them ditching the whole concept. Especially with Snyder doing justice to comic concepts.
She's an Amazon and that has a meaning that's not some shitting alien idea.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
And yeah, there's this: I don't see Snyder ditching the greek shit, either. He LIKES that stuff, obviously. And now he's got a character in this universe that gives him an in to tap the sort of stuff he did in 300, and bring it into the DC movies.
But if he HAD to - the kryptonian descendent workaround isn't all that bad, is all I'm saying (shrug)
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I think so, yeah.
Father_Brain
Banned
...all of which is true, and is exactly why I'm so concerned about how WW is going to be adapted, precisely because WB can get away with turning her into a generic superpowered costumed woman with an origin ripped off from another, more popular male character, with little to no impact on BvS' or Justice League's overall word of mouth. I'm not arguing from a box office perspective here.
"Modern-day mythological adventure" is honestly the only type of WW solo film I see as worth making. If she's a Kryptonian and has little to no real mythology (in multiple senses of the word) of her own, doesn't her film run dangerously close to becoming a Superman movie with a protagonist audiences give less of a damn about?
DonasaurusRex
Online Ho Champ
Asgard is a place, planet and kingdom, they are extraterrestials/another dimension in a sense. But they are also linked to the worlds tree as its guardian, long as it exists they are in the Ragnarok cycle. Its not like Thor doesn't have a lineage all the way back to the eldest of what would become the asgardians through Ymir. It was his mother and the concept of the elder gods that made thor really OP.
The asgardian side and his god hood thru Odin is really well developed, many of the characters in JiM are copy and paste from Norse Mythology, and so are the other kingdoms , especially the Frost Giants, Trolls , Vanir, Queen of Norn, and his half brothers Tyre and Balder. They could literally do another LoTR type saga with Thor, and i think the cast they've assembled can pull it off. Besides the MCU is chock full of super science , Asgard is like at most steam punk. Super science is the Elders of the Universe like The Collector, The Eternals (Thanos) Inhumans , Celestials, Kang The Conqueror, Kree, Spartax, Xandarians. So on and so forth no need to shoe horn the asgardians in there with the room full of options.
hope it's true
It's so hot I can feel it.
Messypandas
Member
BadAss2961
Member
Diana getting most of the screen time is fine, all I want is for her to be experienced and battle ready from the start without a huge origin explanation. The "Wonder Woman" moniker can come at any point in the movie.
It's the Injustice costume. Looks alright in the game.
I want a bearded, long-haired/New 52 hybrid Aquaman, especially with Momoa on board. These fanarts aren't bad.
Just_myles
Member
Donasaurus Rex said:
These are understood, but this falls in line to what I was saying, these are things that we can't really quantify and we get a Thor that has a power rating that goes up and way up and way down(writer pending). I feel the MCU origin keeps it at a specific level.
Donasaurus Rex said:
I agree, they could have done this, but is that really marketable for the MCU? If it were a stand a lone non-MCU Thor movie, I'm in. I just don't like the Odin force or any super natural element being used as a sort of deus ex machina. I mean in the comics Thor could travel between dimensions with his hammer... I just don't want to see stuff like this.
BadAss2961 said:
Yeah and I hated it there too. All the random spikes and protrusions look ridiculous and make the design way too busy. I think the best bet is to keep it sleek and simple, especially since the rumor is he's only going to have like 5 minutes of screen time. Keep it memorable for the right reasons, not because of a bad video game influenced costume.
hope it's true
when is SDCC?
BadAss2961
Member
Starts July 24th.
DonasaurusRex
Online Ho Champ
They aren't exactly all powerful , and they aren't supernatural , they're a corporeal humanoid race of beings , yes it would work fine in the MCU or DCU , wonder woman is a mortal amazon depending on the version they use her powers vary. They're just different context for story telling. I dont mind streamlining it because its vast due to decades of stories. Asgardians, Vanir, Amazons, all physical within the universe/omni/multiverse beings, they aren't some supernatural entity or transcendent race of concepts.
That looks hella boring. Looks he belongs on the enterprise.
brandonh83
Banned
This is coming out in 2016, but they're showing clips this summer already?
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Probably just the one clip. I bet it's the scene they were shooting when Snyder took that snapshot or whatever.
Superman's doing something and Batman drives up, interrupts him, gets out of the car, and says something badass, smash-cut to black, logo comes up, and the panel continues. Something like that, probably.
Ninja Scooter
Member
I like Alex Ross' design of aquaman from Kingdom Come best. Make him look like a proper warrior King, with the scale armor basically serving as chainmail.
It will be interesting
Because need to.. grow and sustain hype for over 2 years.
Thought were going further with the Batman reveal but ended up being only thing we got in May
hope it's true
I'm looking forward to the bootlegs.
Father_Brain
Banned
Also, is fear of audience confusion really the only reason why we likely (IMO, could be wrong, of course) won't see Wonder Woman show up and Superman/Batman go "oh, hmm, a super-strong flying woman in an ostentatious armored costume, I see that sorta shit every day, nice to meet you and how are you doing?"
Schweinehund
Member
I hope not. Need Demigod origins as well. The less similar she is to superman the better. I don't see any reason to make her half kryptonian other then to push a love triange between her, Clark and Lois. If Shazam is linked to the JLA movies then they can't hide the magic aspect.
DonasaurusRex
Online Ho Champ
Ya never know, they might make Shazam some alien from kryptons solar system what are those other dudes? Draxamites or something. Bang slightly different effects of earths sun....lol i would not be shocked.
Schweinehund
Member
A New Genesis scientist sends a bolt of lightning to earth (which activates nanobots) whenever Billy says Shazam to his motherbox.
Kill me
If nothing else, hopefully WB will use Comic-Con as an opportunity to pull the veil off the film a bit more and give us some clear shots of Batfleck, Cavill, and Gadot in costume.
Mac the KNife
Member
I hear his stunt guy is getting more face-time.
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