I think less than a billion would be underperforming especially in Warner's eyes
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Batman vs Superman: World's Finest Three-Year Wait
- Thread starter Marion Cobretti
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I think less than a billion would be underperforming especially in Warner's eyes
Father_Brain
Banned
The IP involved and what will no doubt be a gargantuan marketing budget should guarantee a pretty massive box office; I'd say $750M worldwide at bare minimum.
A billion, though? That's not a foregone conclusion based on those two factors, not by any means.
...and yeah, even "only' $950M would probably disappoint WB, though presumably not enough to change their DCCU plans.
A billion, though? That's not a foregone conclusion based on those two factors, not by any means.
...and yeah, even "only' $950M would probably disappoint WB, though presumably not enough to change their DCCU plans.
Commercially? I doubt it.
Critically? Oh yeah, it could very easily.
As long as it sells well, WB will move forward with their plans, how good/bad it is won't hinder them too much.
It's not so much the critic score but the cinema score I think they need to worry about. In the short time it's going to hugely successful because it's the first live action film with Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman together and the first time WW is ever in film. If word of mouth from the average movie goer is very positive they'll be okay in the long term. That was the case with Man of Steel I believe. A number of critics crapped on the film, many couldn't let go of Christopher Reeves, but vast majority of the audience really enjoyed it to loved it.
What's going to be interesting though is if critics continue to cling to the Reeves era as to what Superman is suppose to be. To many reviews kept going back to that when it came to what they expected and wanted. Added to that will critics cling to the Nolan films when looking at Batman and refuse to accept this is a different version and take.
I'm not saying it will, but they want their billion dollar franchise without Batman and Harry Potter
SJRB
Gold Member
I agree, box office numbers show that nobody gives a fuck about either Superman or Batman movies.
Given they have an Oscar winner writting the script I kinda doubt it.
DonasaurusRex
Online Ho Champ
I think if they pull off this film well enough it will end up top 5 all time. Avengers 2 if done on the same level of Cap 2 execution... fuck who knows still behind avatar but more than part 1. The top 5 may get shaken up over the next two years. A good Starwars VII? thats top 5 imho, Hunger Games, maybe but perhaps the middle movie is the biggest, Avengers 2, and Batman Vs Superman....they could all end up in the top 5 , almost guaranteed to be in the top 10.
As much as Man of Steel didn't work for me, I'm very glad DC is hiring people who don't throw stupid quips in to undercut any tension. I want entertaining superhero films, but let's leave the 'OMG IT SHOULD HAVE SILLY QUIPS' stuff to Marvel. That's their thing, I guess.
Killing_Joke
Member
I doubt it will flop but anything under a billion would be disappointing. They dodged a massive competition bullet going to 2016 but not sure if that would help. Batman/Superman has enough appeal to make mega cash. But the Affleck casting was a total buzzkill with the media. If they brought back Bale we wouldn't even be having this conversation.
Succinct Verbosity
Member
The bigger concern was Goyer, so having Afleck was a blessing in disguise given who he has brought with him.
Alright I got my first piece today for the daily Batman V. Superman Bingo. Next I think someone will say something about Goyer writing the movie.
Nightengale
Member
I thought I am the only person in the world who's kinda torn on it, because practically all movies do that 'quips' thing.
I mean, I don't mind it, but I sometimes feel that there's no reason for someone to cut the tension with a joke-knife.
As much as Man of Steel didn't work for me, I'm very glad DC is hiring people who don't throw stupid quips in to undercut any tension. I want entertaining superhero films, but let's leave the 'OMG IT SHOULD HAVE SILLY QUIPS' stuff to Marvel. That's their thing, I guess.
Man that Whedon quote...sums up all MCU films starting with Avengers.And that's also a problem, I believe. It's forcing something in that isn't needed. Sure the humor works sometimes but sometimes it doesn't and you can't just jam it in.
You really can't make these kind of sweeping statements because if you do and you hold onto them you're forcing yourself into a strict corridor path of expectations.
For example, The Dark Knight trilogy would never work with the narrative structure that Whedon is proposing there. And in fact it showed that you didn't have to follow up all the moments with jokes. You pick a style to suit the movie, not force a movie into your style.
Just_myles
Member
No way, that's MCU, totally keep that in there. It's part of the lightheartedness that these movies I feel require. Maybe not for the Batman obviously, it is the Batman. But, for Superman to not have a lighthearted moment when he maybe tells a joke or gets a legitimate laugh is not out of the question. I'm not surprised that some may not like that in their comic movies however. From a film stand point I can see your argument for most action films.
The problem is people always look at "light and fun" and "dark and grits" as some either/or, all or nothing thing. There's a way to be serious without being humorless, and there's a way to have fun without undercutting moments of dramatic tension or removing any sense of "weight" from scenes. I don't think either Marvel Studios or WB/DC recent output understands this all that well.
I thought Nolan's trilogy did some of it well.
Most of them humor was done well (drunk Bruce, Alfred's dry wit, etc) and never really undercut the tension of the plot
My point is not that Superman should be gritty.
It's that Superman should have the tone of Captain America: TWS. Where it's not quips as such, it's just a fantastically fun and exciting film with a lead who doesn't have to mope because he's got to be a hero gosh darn it.
Whereas Joss would have Superman quipping constantly, like Thor's 'he's adopted', which yeah - Gods have different morality, but really makes him look like an asshole.
BRUCE: Why'd you kill my parents, in five words or less?
JOE CHILL: Went for a walk... bitch!
"Parent's die. Don't need to be a pussy over it."
broncobuster
Banned
Recently X-Men Days of Future Past handled it well.
I feel like I would love Whedon's Lois Lane and be supremely annoyed by all his other characters in any Superman film he helmed.
I was just thinking the X-Men series is pretty good about it. Of course, there are those that say even those films are too serious, so eh. Like I said, it's all or nothing with some.
I was just thinking the X-Men series is pretty good about it. Of course, there are those that say even those films are too serious, so eh. Like I said, it's all or nothing with some.
Halcyon
Member
Man Of Steel is preparing...
I'm going to be doing a variation of this tonight with a smith machine. Why don't I look like Superman.
Man Of Steel is preparing...
Warner/DC Comics should release a series of workout videos with their characters
evil solrac v3.0
Member
yes but that Captian was already an established hero who wasn't trying to find his place in the world. and also ahd the love of millions. Superman in MoS did not have that advantage.
you're using a smith machine. also, you're not Kryptonian.
Yes. Except in his first film he was also delightfully goofy.
Superman's one of my favourite superheroes. And I don't hate MOS. But it has giant flaws, and I hope Snyder and co iron those out. I want Superman in Gotham to stick out like a sore thumb, not blend in. Just be baffled that random muggers are shooting him.
Halcyon
Member
Inverted Rows are possibly one of the only useful things about a smith machine
Yeah that's not going to happen with this Superman. This Supes knows that there are dicks in the world, he was basically brought up fearing humanity. In fact that's his trait, that despite humanity showing its worse face to him, despite his dad telling him the world would hate him simple because he exists he chooses to always save the people and even is willing to give himself up to Zod.
It's a different take than the one you're expecting, because you're looking at Reeves superman which was A) one director's take on the character B) in a different era completely C) working with a vastly different source material.
Don't go into a movie expecting what a character should be like, but look at what he is established as. You can have a horribly written source-accurate character and also an amazing character that isn't close to the source material at all. Just look at Arrow's potrayal of Green Arrow.
unholyrevenger72
Banned
Camera cut's to dying Thomas Wayne's POV. Joe Chill stands over Thomas' face and crouches repeatedly.
(there used to be a reverse gif here, link expired)
THOMAS WAYNE: Don't be afraid, Bruce. Alfred's got a brisket waiting...
TheRealTalker
Banned
Scooter155
Member
That's... basically what Bobby Roberts has been trying to get me to see this whole time but in a way I can take... I guess he is making a fairly courageous choice in the face of how awful he's seen humanity be in his time here...
Spiking that guy's truck on the electrical pole though, that was screwed up. And before you mention it - I also hated the fact that Reeves in Superman 2 went all the way back up to Alaska just to beat up that trucker who gave him grief while he was de-powered. Really, Superman?
DonasaurusRex
Online Ho Champ
I think he did that more to bring that guy down a notch since he was terrorizing the other customers and even the owner.
See I can totally get the complaints like that despite liking the movie. I thought the narative structure worked and so did Zod but I can see why you might find them lacking.
I think the electrical pole is more to do with the fact he's still learning and it's the beginning of his journey. Similar to the bullying scene, it's about Superman being human I guess? Though i don't really want to look too deep into it and read something that isn't there.
Also I think that was Goyer's attempt at humor.
Scooter155
Member
It was funny, but when you think about it for more than 1/10 of a second you realize how horrifying a world where someone like Superman exists and does stuff just to screw with people over petty squabbles. You know? With Great Power comes... something, I'm sure...
On the other hand, it is a "younger" Superman, who hasn't really decided who he is yet. It's kind of like MoS's version of 70s Superman outrunning a train or booting the hell out of a football to vent frustration.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I absolutely agree with Scoot in that the scene of Superman completely fucking up that truck was pretty bullshit, just as bullshit as Superman getting his powers back and basically putting a redneck in the hospital while cracking a grin.
They're both big whiffs not just on the generally accepted personality of Superman in pop-culture, but the Superman IN THE MOVIE we're dealing with.
Although, then again, Superman fucking up someone's truck for a joke does, in some way, set up Superman spiking a satellite in front of a US General. But somehow, Superman telling an intrusive government to fuck off while still promising to help them as much as possible plays better than Superman ruining a dude's livelihood and wrecking some companies' equipment over an altercation in a redneck juke joint.
But I doubt Goyer thought that much about it beyond "Wouldn't it be funny if Superman was a dick right here?" Because that's how Goyer's sense of humor works. Look at his filmography - almost all of his comedy is mean-spirited in nature, and at the expense of someone else.
They're both big whiffs not just on the generally accepted personality of Superman in pop-culture, but the Superman IN THE MOVIE we're dealing with.
Although, then again, Superman fucking up someone's truck for a joke does, in some way, set up Superman spiking a satellite in front of a US General. But somehow, Superman telling an intrusive government to fuck off while still promising to help them as much as possible plays better than Superman ruining a dude's livelihood and wrecking some companies' equipment over an altercation in a redneck juke joint.
But I doubt Goyer thought that much about it beyond "Wouldn't it be funny if Superman was a dick right here?" Because that's how Goyer's sense of humor works. Look at his filmography - almost all of his comedy is mean-spirited in nature, and at the expense of someone else.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
Messypandas
Member
Yuuup. Thats what happens when you fuck a stranger in the ass.
What sweeping statement? He's not saying you need to cram every second of the movie with jokes, just that levity is important (a lack of which was a major problem for Man of Steel). You don't just "pick a style" and stick with it for the whole movie, you crib a little from column A and column B when appropriate.
And as it is, Nolan's trilogy did have its share of quips and levity too.
That's a really naive Superman template. I don't know that I want Superman to be a country bumpkin... I have no problem with the idea that a man that can freely travel anywhere in the world might know a thing or two about it. Since the the film takes place 2 years after Superman's debut, hopefully the world also isn't so cartoonish as to pointlessly fire upon an alien known to be invulnerable.
The most common complaint about Superman as a concept? That he's too perfect, too powerful, and unrelateable. I haven't heard those tired arguments after Man of Steel and it is in part to scenes like that which show he's not perfect and struggles with the same impulses towards vengeance as we all do.
The expression of that vengeance was PRIOR to becoming Superman. It was before all his pent up questions, aimlessness, and frustrations were resolved by meeting Jor-El and donning his heritage and bearing the crest of Hope on his chest. That was Clark, doing his best to still follow Pa Kent's bidding and trust in his father's instructions, but have no real reason to do so besides faith... under those conditions, I completely understand letting off steam on a truck. Clark was in hiding purely on faith in a larger purpose, which he had never seen proof or evidence of... until Kent was proven right when he met Jor-El.
Thereafter, Superman being so petty is a little less acceptable, except to say, he's STILL human. Revelations about your past can be a Road to Damascus moment, but that doesn't mean you aren't going to still bring your baggage along... he's still going to have inclinations (to bang hot human women, to wreak vengeance, etc) but now he as a more concrete reason not to give in inappropriately.
tl:dr; I had no problem with the scene taken in the full context of the movie.
EdibleExplosives
Member
Motherfucker deserved to have his truck wrecked.
Sibersk Esto
Banned
Question: If Superman did this at some point in the movie, you think it would piss people off?
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Nope.
In fact, I wish that scene (along with large chunks of Birthright) would get adapted.
In fact, I wish that scene (along with large chunks of Birthright) would get adapted.
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