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Batman vs Superman: World's Finest Three-Year Wait

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B

BLACKLAC

Member
Sibersk Esto said:
Question: If Superman did this at some point in the movie, you think it would puss people off?
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/65567/2866227-superman_0125.jpg[img][/QUOTE]

Depends on if they set it up. If they poorly set it up like his scream at the end of MoS than no.
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B

Bobby Roberts

Banned
Sibersk Esto said:
I know it's selfish, but I would've loved for Man of Steel to just be a Birthright adaptation. It's perfect to me as an origin.
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That's not selfish at all. It would have been a fucking great call.

BLACKLAC said:
Depends on if they set it up. If they poorly set it up like his scream at the end of MoS than no.
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This doesn't make any sense. How could they NOT set the above scene up? Hell, even ON THAT PAGE, they're telling you why Superman is grabbing a gun. Unless you're suggesting Superman would have just randomly popped a shot at a redneck for the fuck of it.

And how was his scream at the end of Man of Steel NOT "set up" either?

Superman being a dick works when he's turning it around on someone who was being a dick first - which means that Truck scene SHOULD have worked. But look at Birthright there. Firing a gun at a person SHOULD be worse than wrecking his truck - but Superman is firing the gun as a means to teach the redneck how horrible it is for him to point a gun at ANYONE, especially a little girl. And so the scene plays better.

Superman is using his powers to show that person just how wrong they went in as vivid a manner as possible. That's what he should be doing. Crook uses a gun - he uses a gun, and then uses his powers to catch the bullet. So Superman, instead of wrecking the dude's truck, should have probably figured out a way to dump a ton of water (or snow) on it instead, as a means to show this dickhead that pouring a whole pitcher over a person's head is a real dick move.
 
S

Scooter155

Member
DaveH said:
That's a really naive Superman template. I don't know that I want Superman to be a country bumpkin... I have no problem with the idea that a man that can freely travel anywhere in the world might know a thing or two about it. Since the the film takes place 2 years after Superman's debut, hopefully the world also isn't so cartoonish as to pointlessly fire upon an alien known to be invulnerable.

The most common complaint about Superman as a concept? That he's too perfect, too powerful, and unrelateable. I haven't heard those tired arguments after Man of Steel and it is in part to scenes like that which show he's not perfect and struggles with the same impulses towards vengeance as we all do.

The expression of that vengeance was PRIOR to becoming Superman. It was before all his pent up questions, aimlessness, and frustrations were resolved by meeting Jor-El and donning his heritage and bearing the crest of Hope on his chest. That was Clark, doing his best to still follow Pa Kent's bidding and trust in his father's instructions, but have no real reason to do so besides faith... under those conditions, I completely understand letting off steam on a truck. Clark was in hiding purely on faith in a larger purpose, which he had never seen proof or evidence of... until Kent was proven right when he met Jor-El.

Thereafter, Superman being so petty is a little less acceptable, except to say, he's STILL human. Revelations about your past can be a Road to Damascus moment, but that doesn't mean you aren't going to still bring your baggage along... he's still going to have inclinations (to bang hot human women, to wreak vengeance, etc) but now he as a more concrete reason not to give in inappropriately.

tl:dr; I had no problem with the scene taken in the full context of the movie.
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I understand it's just a simple difference of opinion and I respect that you don't have a problem with it. When people complain about Superman being un-relatable though, I just don't see it.

Spiderman invented wrist mounted web shooters and a synthetic material with the proportional strength and adhesive properties of a spiderweb while he was in highschool. He maybe murdered Gwen Stacy on accident and then is back to cracking jokes a few days later.

Batman is a billionaire/ninja/detective/expert at literally everything who can magically recover from having his spine broken or being sent back in time to the stone age because Batman.

Anyone sounds un-relatable if you explain them that way. Superman is an orphan. An outsider. He lost a home and a family he never even knew, he's got this immense power and purpose that he never asked for and can't reject. He's tempted to give up, to give in, to quit, to take control, and he could do any or all of those things, but he doesn't.

Superheroes aren't supposed to be relatable, or at least, not completely. They're aspirational, they're inspirational, they're the best possible versions of ourselves, the people we should try to be in our every day lives.

Spiderman is about a geek owning who he is and finally learning to be comfortable in his own skin, the power that can come from that, and about the responsibility of those with power (you all know the line).

Batman is about turning tragic loss into a motivating force for good instead of self-pity and emotional withdrawal.

Superman always does what's right. Superman never slips up, never lets the bad guy win, and he saves everyone, even when it seemed impossible. Again, there are exceptions to all of those all throughout his history, but as a character, that's what Superman is, he's the boyscout, the pinnacle of goodness and virtue, but that doesn't make him boring. Boring authors/stories make him boring. Yeah, humans slip up in reality, but wouldn't life be better if we didn't? If we all controlled our tempers and took care of each other, instead of lashing out?

Superman's real strength isn't his actual strength, the fact that he just happens to be able to punch harder than most of the bad guys. It's his moral fiber, the fact that he'll take the high road even when it's not convenient.

Superman is sincere.

Sometimes Superman is cheesy as all get up, and that's OK.

tnRWHhv.jpg
 
S

Scooter155

Member
BobbyRoberts said:
That's not selfish at all. It would have been a fucking great call.



This doesn't make any sense. How could they NOT set the above scene up? Hell, even ON THAT PAGE, they're telling you why Superman is grabbing a gun. Unless you're suggesting Superman would have just randomly popped a shot at a redneck for the fuck of it.

And how was his scream at the end of Man of Steel NOT "set up" either?

Superman being a dick works when he's turning it around on someone who was being a dick first - which means that Truck scene SHOULD have worked. But look at Birthright there. Firing a gun at a person SHOULD be worse than wrecking his truck - but Superman is firing the gun as a means to teach the redneck how horrible it is for him to point a gun at ANYONE, especially a little girl. And so the scene plays better.

Superman is using his powers to show that person just how wrong they went in as vivid a manner as possible. That's what he should be doing. Crook uses a gun - he uses a gun, and then uses his powers to catch the bullet. So Superman, instead of wrecking the dude's truck, should have probably figured out a way to dump a ton of water (or snow) on it instead, as a means to show this dickhead that pouring a whole pitcher over a person's head is a real dick move.
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Yeah the problems in that scene are the details, it's hard to believe that Clark wasn't doing that just for personal reasons, and the fact that he used an electrical pole made it a dangerous scene for anyone to clean up and potentially effected the entire town negatively, maybe even killing people. Just makes it seem like he puts little to no thought into the safety of people around him. Just like a lot of the fight scenes later on :|
 
E

Effect

Member
So any word if there is going to be a Batman vs Superman panel or if it's simply not going to be talked about? They would say if they weren't going to talk about right?
 
I

IconGrist

Member
Effect said:
So any word if there is going to be a Batman vs Superman panel or if it's simply not going to be talked about? They would say if they weren't going to talk about right?
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I honestly wouldn't mind too much if BvS isn't talked about. What I'm personally hoping for is that they talk about their plan with the DCCU movies after BvS. BvS is coming, they are filming it and Justice League movie will be made afterwards. Beyond JL we know nothing so that's what I'd like for them to talk about.
 
F

Father_Brain

Banned
Sibersk Esto said:
Unfortunately, no.
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If rumor (read: Rich Johnston) is to be believed, Waid almost got the chance when James Robinson briefly quit the multiple Superman books he was writing in late 2008. After Robinson and DC editorial patched things up, the offer was rescinded, and supposedly Waid was left feeling that his longtime desire to write a Superman ongoing had been exploited to get Robinson back on board, which contributed to his definitive exit from DC in early 2009.
 
B

Bobby Roberts

Banned
The Icon said:
I honestly wouldn't mind too much if BvS isn't talked about. What I'm personally hoping for is that they talk about their plan with the DCCU movies after BvS. BvS is coming, they are filming it and Justice League movie will be made afterwards. Beyond JL we know nothing so that's what I'd like for them to talk about.
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There's going to be a panel, and they're going to show SOMETHING. No way that they don't.

Last year they didn't have ANYTHING but a fucking logo and it stopped the whole damn con. :)
 
G

GringoSuave89

Banned
BobbyRoberts said:
There's going to be a panel, and they're going to show SOMETHING. No way that they don't.

Last year they didn't have ANYTHING but a fucking logo and it stopped the whole damn con. :)
Click to expand...

Yeah they got to have something. Even if it's just like The Dark Knight teaser where it was just a bunch of dialogue audio with a flashy logo, it'd make the place go crazy. They wouldn't turn up empty handed.
 
G

G-Fex

Member
Future Foundation said:
So this was his only solo Superman work? Shit, that sucks.



The idea of Superman pointing and shooting a gun (and catch the bullet before impact) might put some people off, but fuck it that part was amazing.
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He did in like the first episode of Lois and Clark. Except he did it to Lex.
 
L

Loxley

Member
Shamrock7r said:
Birthright was a perfect "Made for movie" storyboard origin. I liked Man of Steel. Birthright would have been so much better.
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For the longest time, I thought Snyder basically was going to adapt Birthright, given his adaptions of 300 and Watchmen were nearly panel-for-panel recreations of the comics off of which they were based. And since Birthright is a fantastic contemporary retelling of Superman's origin - it seemed like a no-brainer. I'm going to be slightly bitter about getting what we got in MOS instead of something close to Birthright for a while :/
 
B

Bobby Roberts

Banned
Loxley said:
For the longest time, I thought Snyder basically was going to adapt Birthright, given his adaptions of 300 and Watchmen were nearly panel-for-panel recreations of the comics off of which they were based. And since Birthright is a fantastic contemporary retelling of Superman's origin - it seemed like a no-brainer. I'm going to be slightly bitter about getting what we got in MOS instead of something close to Birthright for a while :/
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I think if the genesis of the project hadn't been Goyer/Nolan, but Snyder instead, you might have gotten that.

Meaning, I think if WB was like "Hey, Zack Snyder. We would like you to make a Superman movie," I think the odds of Snyder settling on a specific story from the comics are WAY higher than the weirdly-toned pastiche of Superman stories that Goyer synthesized into a script for Snyder.

I could see Snyder saying "Sure," and then Snyder looking at Birthright and saying "Yeah. Lets do that one."
 
D

Dead

well not really...yet
Shamrock7r said:
Birthright was a perfect "Made for movie" storyboard origin. I liked Man of Steel. Birthright would have been so much better.
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Birthright really did feel like it was written for the screen

Probably my favorite superman comic origin.
 
A

Anung

Un Rama
Sibersk Esto said:
Question: If Superman did this at some point in the movie, you think it would piss people off?
2866227-superman_0125.jpg
Click to expand...

I'd be cool with it. It's a cool scene and I know Supes is supposed to be above it but I imagine with some of the shit he sees it'd be hard not to strike out. Plus since in MoS he's supposed to be a bit more flawed I could see it working.
 
MisterHero

MisterHero

Super Member
Between Ackwaman, Ambassador Diana Prince, Green Lantern, Flash, Cyborg, and Doomsday the entire movie will be the after-credits teaser.

"The Justice League will return in Justice League"

Father_Brain said:
I'm pretty skeptical for the first reason, but if it's true, is Luthor going to transfer his mind into Doomsday's or something? A mindless monster isn't a very interesting antagonist.
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There is a precedence for this in the comics; except with Brainiac and not Luthor.
 
F

Father_Brain

Banned
Penguin said:
I'm of two-minds of this

1)Not in the mood to trust any rumors after the faked script business... and that also featured Doomsday

2)At the same time, we're due a second villain because I like Lex, but he isn't a match for Superman/Batman/WW on his own
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I'm pretty skeptical for the first reason, but if it's true, is Luthor going to transfer his mind into Doomsday's or something? A mindless monster isn't a very interesting antagonist.
 
S

Schweinehund

Member
richiek said:
Supposedly, Doomsday is going to appear in the film.
Click to expand...

I hope its just a cameo and he shows up in the next Superman Solo film. I like it when superman is physically challenged but the character is so much more than that (Zod just did this in the last film). He needs to be intellectually challenged by Lex, putting him in situations that seem impossible. Maybe he can make 2 villains work like Nolan did, now that half of the movie won't be flashbacks.

Hoping to see a DC explosion of Information at SDCC for all their upcoming films. I would think if Sandman and Shazam are targeted for 2016 they would have some casting, so maybe they'll reveal Rock's role finally.
 
P

Penguin

Member
Ninjimbo said:
I can't believe I still have to wait two years for this movie. Why was this delayed anyway? Did WB give a reason?
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I think was like a combination of pushing back production and want to say minor injury.

Not sure why would delay a year.

The supposed reason is to film BvS/JL back-to-back and not have a big gap between their movies.

Also probably to avoid The Avengers (and what was at the time a pretty packed summer 2015)
 
M

Messypandas

Member
3 years is pretty typical of DC's interims. Man of Steel was 2013, BVS is 2016. The TDK franchise went 2005, 2008 and then to 2012. They probably didn't feel comfortable putting it out in 2 quite simply.
 
D

DeathyBoy

Banned
Father_Brain said:
If rumor (read: Rich Johnston) is to be believed, Waid almost got the chance when James Robinson briefly quit the multiple Superman books he was writing in late 2008. After Robinson and DC editorial patched things up, the offer was rescinded, and supposedly Waid was left feeling that his longtime desire to write a Superman ongoing had been exploited to get Robinson back on board, which contributed to his definitive exit from DC in early 2009.
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Eh, given Waid's bad attitude re: Man of Steel and his hatred of Didio he'd never have lasted on Superman. Superman either has writers like Robinson/Lobdell who'll play ball, or people like Johns who are high ups. Waid isn't really either.

As for Doomsday, I'm betting the reports mean Bizarro. Wouldn't be surprised if Lex doesn't 'borrow' Zod's body and do some experimentarton.
 
P

PhoncipleBone

Banned
Sibersk Esto said:
No one likes Doomsday

No joke, both this and the marvel Encyclopedia are great buys. They're both outdated, but it's fun to see how much crazy shit the big two have come up with over the years.
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There was a new Marvel Encyclopedia this spring. No new DC one on the horizon, but there is a DC Villains book due in the fall I believe.
 
F

Father_Brain

Banned
DeathyBoy said:
Eh, given Waid's bad attitude re: Man of Steel and his hatred of Didio he'd never have lasted on Superman. Superman either has writers like Robinson/Lobdell who'll play ball, or people like Johns who are high ups. Waid isn't really either.
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Criticizing a film you didn't like is a bad attitude? And "hatred of DiDio?" It's not like this was for personal, petty reasons. Waid explained this pretty thoroughly when he burned his bridges with the company five years back in an AICN interview; in short, he was screwed over by editorial repeatedly in his time there; it wasn't just the rumored Superman offer being pulled.

And Robinson did eventually quit DC over a dispute with editorial. It just took him a while longer.
 
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