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Battlefield 4 |OT| Prepare to Leave Beta... Nevermind
- Thread starter Overdoziz
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The_Darkest_Red
Member
I'm super late to this but I finally started playing some BF4 online a few days ago (PS4). I played a ton of BC2 and BF3 but it was all on PS3 and almost entirely the Rush gametype. I realize that this was a mode created specifically for a console setting but that's part of why I enjoyed it so much, and I felt that it was particularly well implemented in BC2 because the maps were all designed around it so well.
So far my experience with Rush in BF4 is not very good. 32 players just seems like far too many for a gametype that funnels all of the players to 1 or 2 specific spots on the map, and I'm just not sure I'll be able to get over that. To be honest Rush feels like more of an afterthought in this game (even moreso than in BF3) and I'm not sure how much longer it'll be able to hold my interest. 24 players seems ideal for this mode but even then the maps need to be designed around it, and in BF4 that just doesn't seem to be the case to me.
Like I said, I know I'm super late to this so I have no idea how much this has been discussed. Is this a pretty commonly held view among the BF4 community?
So far my experience with Rush in BF4 is not very good. 32 players just seems like far too many for a gametype that funnels all of the players to 1 or 2 specific spots on the map, and I'm just not sure I'll be able to get over that. To be honest Rush feels like more of an afterthought in this game (even moreso than in BF3) and I'm not sure how much longer it'll be able to hold my interest. 24 players seems ideal for this mode but even then the maps need to be designed around it, and in BF4 that just doesn't seem to be the case to me.
Like I said, I know I'm super late to this so I have no idea how much this has been discussed. Is this a pretty commonly held view among the BF4 community?
Unknown One
Member
Basically yeah. It can't be fixed due to map designs either.
I'm in a festive mood, quote to reveal a Gold Battlepack (PC Only):
quote to see
I redeemed it! I got two paints and a suppressor from it so thanks for being so festive :]
The_Darkest_Red
Member
At least BF3 on consoles only had 24 players in Rush. That alone made it enjoyable enough to me, although I will admit it was a noticeable step backwards from BC2.BF3 Rush was unplayable, BF4 Rush is bearable.
All BFBC2 maps were designed as Rush maps, in BF4 Obliteration and Conquest seem to be the lead Game Modes.
The weird thing in BF4 is a lot of times each area of the map you can access is fairly large and wide but it doesn't matter, all activity ends up being funneled towards the objectives (naturally). It's like they thought bigger areas would make 32 players tolerable but they completely missed the point.
Man, I miss BC2.
i fucking laugh at the concept of competitive play in this game. Not with it's netcode and constant rebalancing of things that might annoy people mildly.
It's less the rebalancing and more that they don't design for competitive in mind. Or they do and completely miss the mark.
Why TheSeks hates me is something i will never understand. ;__;
TheSeks pls
Who said I hated you? You just rush to the aid of DICE as their Ocelot self-esteem team.
At least BF3 on consoles only had 24 players in Rush. That alone made it enjoyable enough to me, although I will admit it was a noticeable step backwards from BC2.
The weird thing in BF4 is a lot of times each area of the map you can access is fairly large and wide but it doesn't matter, all activity ends up being funneled towards the objectives (naturally). It's like they thought bigger areas would make 32 players tolerable but they completely missed the point.
Man, I miss BC2.
I dunno. I like BF3's (for better or worse) than BF4's. Probably because the maps play better for Rush, despite 64-player Rush on PC in BF3 being a complete and total clusterfuck (people blocking doors, too many people in too small an area) and even on PS3 it was alright, despite being STRONGLY defensive focused/biased.
BF4's is a mixed bag. There's good ideas here, but like Haian first set, they just aren't realized. Why the hell is there NO cover but open sea on that first set? It's like DICE WANTED everyone to go engineer and bombard the sea with rockets.
But hey, they play like gentlemen at DICE... so obviously they didn't see this rocket abuse in the map on development time.
If BC2 toned down the destruction slightly, removed the mortar and crate harm it'd be fine despite the helicopters being fucking stupid. But go back to that and see how clunky (Scogoth's words here) it is. I love the game, but going back to it is very hard after some of the changes BF3 and 4 brought.
In BF3, post-nerf; it was still deadly. I honestly forget what DICE did (lowered the damage, made more recoil?) but it was still a good controlling gun. Does the AEK have a faster TTK? Sure. But the F2000 has a faster ADS for like... Metro's ticket-counter to the exit/A flag close-mid range engagement. Use it like a PDW and you'd be rolling in dead bodies with a faster mobility than the AEK or the other assault rifles
There are still too many times where you want a precision shot on Metro and the F2000 just can't do it reliably like the AEK. Honestly the only place where I feel it's better than the AEK is on Canals TDM w/ a laser+FG. That's really limited. Canals and Metro are awful anyway lol.
i fucking laugh at the concept of competitive play in this game. Not with it's netcode and constant rebalancing of things that might annoy people mildly.
Yep. The crappy netcode makes shit too random for any sort of competitive gameplay environment.
There's definitely something wrong after this patch. I don't know what they did to the netcode, but almost every death for me is a headshot now. This last round I counted 10 headshot deaths out of 12 total. Making me not want to play the game until the next patch.
Edit: This is exactly the kinda shit I'm experiencing since the patch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkQDtOYim6M
They added the headshot graphic to killcam now, but I'm going to guess it is bugged just like the 0% health thing. So it is either showing the graphic when it shouldn't be, or it is registering headshots when it shouldn't be.
They added the headshot graphic to killcam now, but I'm going to guess it is bugged just like the 0% health thing. So it is either showing the graphic when it shouldn't be, or it is registering headshots when it shouldn't be.
Yeah im still getting 0% health kills, and some of the Headshots ive gotten... dunno seem a bit fishy.
A really weird glitch(?) i got was a Haitan Resort Domination match with over 20+ dudes spawning all on top of each other in the same spawn point.
All the kills were friendly kills and the game counter didnt worked.
Weird stuff.
Posting on their forums... get out. Someone needs to ask about the ACE and Proxy Mines not working like BC2.
They added the headshot graphic to killcam now, but I'm going to guess it is bugged just like the 0% health thing. So it is either showing the graphic when it shouldn't be, or it is registering headshots when it shouldn't be.
Still instant death, so whether it was a headshot or not is just semantics.
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
I laughed hysterically at this one: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=734574659888207
NEOPARADIGM
Banned
I laughed hysterically at this one: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=734574659888207
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=359X_ns-vMU
i fucking laugh at the concept of competitive play in this game. Not with it's netcode and constant rebalancing of things that might annoy people mildly.
We dont experience net code issues as often as you would in pubs as most engagements are close-medium and automatic.
Even use exclusively 93r to counteract any form of bullshit possible.
Thats by a good margin, not the issue with why this game doesn't work competitively.
I have played many other titles at a decent level that have trash ass netcode as well.
As of now, BF4 is built from the ground up to be a casual title, no matter how much time you put into it and no matter what you partake in this game.
There needs to further advancements in this area with future titles, and there will be. However mimicking COD wont get them far, something i hope they have noticed in terms of competitive play.
There need to be a good balance. In any shooter most people play to win, this, in turn, brings on competitive play as people get better or want to improve so they can advance to the next level so to speak. This is a touchy subject for this franchise as its not built from the ground up to be a twitch-small map shooter.
They need to create a mode (hey tried and it didn't work out with domination) or variation of a mode that is exclusive to competitive play, or has its own separate queue in quick match.
I suggested 16 man conquest as it stays true to battlefields identity in a sense, as well as getting rid of the overall COD mimicking they attempted with domination in terms of high level play.
A ranked 16 man conquest queue, sounds great.
However the gameplay in general would need a few tweaks to accompany such play as well, such as clunky movement at time, to getting stuck on small rocks etc. stopping you to a halt, as well as collision issues, which pours over into the rocks etc.
The game as a whole would be better with the tweaks anyway, not only for high level, consistent play.
Also some damn variety would be nice, as well as some serious balancing.. I mean every week take a look at your weapon set and see if things are leaning more to one specific weapon etc. figure out why and yeah.
I understand this is their first real attempt at advertising their ideas for epsorts, but it flopped, so lets see what refinements the next installment brings with it.
Of they truly want to beat COD in player count, 2 things imo,
Release when the game is ready, regardless of when COD drops, you will retain your current userbase, as opposed to making many of them rage quit the series due to the issues releasing the game early cause.
Refine your high level play as well as support your own large esports events that people will actually want to watch on twitch/in person etc.
Whilst staying appealing to the casual player, yet this is still possible due to the fact that refined high level play, benefits the casual player as well, in terms of tighter controls and gunplay/variety. People will want to get better and queue for ranked once they do, just like league of legends and halo before it.
Edit: damn, i just saw that faebook vids work for me again lol, heres a video i recorded a long ass time ago when i was still getting used to the controller and domination in general.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=1393622714214457
I knife by accident a ton in this video, am issue i had until i got used to the controller, i also have a pretty huge fail in the middle regarding an rpg lol.
Like 3-4 month old vid.
Rabbitweed
Member
Happened to had my first game where the enemy team had one pretty good Little Bird pilot and can't believe how fucking difficult it is to shoot it down in a map like Flood Zone. I didn't see his end score but he was at 31-0 at point even though I spent literally the whole match trying to shoot him down. If you spend anytime in the open trying to spot it you get sniped instantly and even if you happen to get one shot in it just flies somewhere safe behind the buildings and comes back in full health in a little while. No way you can follow it in a map like that. Not gonna even bother trying to shoot it down in the future cos it's just a waste of time.
Will link for new page,
Damn, i just saw that faebook vids work for me again lol, heres a video i recorded a long ass time ago when i was still getting used to the controller and domination in general.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=1393622714214457
I knife by accident a ton in this video, am issue i had until i got used to the controller, i also have a pretty huge fail in the middle regarding an rpg lol.
Like 3-4 month old vid.
Damn, i just saw that faebook vids work for me again lol, heres a video i recorded a long ass time ago when i was still getting used to the controller and domination in general.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=1393622714214457
I knife by accident a ton in this video, am issue i had until i got used to the controller, i also have a pretty huge fail in the middle regarding an rpg lol.
Like 3-4 month old vid.
Milennia: I dont think Obliteration is BF4 competitive (#esports) mode. Thats Defuse i belive.
Short matches between single squads.
I havent tried it yet since i love BF due its 'sandbox' nature in Conquest.
Totally understand the need for smaller game modes though.
Short matches between single squads.
I havent tried it yet since i love BF due its 'sandbox' nature in Conquest.
Totally understand the need for smaller game modes though.
Anyone hate the skyscraper campers on Shanghai CQ?
I got about 10 of those suckers in a little over a minute.
I got about 10 of those suckers in a little over a minute.
Milennia: I dont think Obliteration is BF4 competitive (#esports) mode. Thats Defuse i belive.
Short matches between single squads.
I havent tried it yet since i love BF due its 'sandbox' nature in Conquest.
Totally understand the need for smaller game modes though.
Domination is battlefield 4s competitive mode, thats what it was designed for and meant to do from the start as well as what they push their esports on, as well as what ESL and gb play on.
It doesn't work.
Flopped beyond belief, what i mentioned previously about the 16m conquest via ranked queues could work imo as opposed to 100% going for the COD mimic.
The_Darkest_Red
Member
Haha, very nice. I love the pistol kills.Anyone hate the skyscraper campers on Shanghai CQ?
I got about 10 of those suckers in a little over a minute.
They chose Domination? =/Domination is battlefield 4s competitive mode, thats what it was designed for and meant to do from the start as well as what they push their esports on, as well as what ESL and gb play on.
It doesn't work.
Flopped beyond belief, what i mentioned previously about the 16m conquest via ranked queues could work imo as opposed to 100% going for the COD mimic.
They chose Domination? =/
Yep, it was their downfall not sticking to their roots.
Hahaha. What the fuck.
Unknown One
Member
They completely missed it. Rush needs a lot of cover area for attacks. Lots of hiding destructable areas is a must. Compared to bc2 bf4 is barren. Rush is all about sneaking and fast, hence the name Rush.At least BF3 on consoles only had 24 players in Rush. That alone made it enjoyable enough to me, although I will admit it was a noticeable step backwards from BC2.
The weird thing in BF4 is a lot of times each area of the map you can access is fairly large and wide but it doesn't matter, all activity ends up being funneled towards the objectives (naturally). It's like they thought bigger areas would make 32 players tolerable but they completely missed the point.
Man, I miss BC2.
Destruction does have a counter. I did it all the time in bc2, it's called smoke. The most useful grenade in the game.
Destruction does have a counter. I did it all the time in bc2, it's called smoke. The most useful grenade in the game.
Not really. You must forget the times where I crumbled buildings
thank god DICE changed that in BF3 on
You can kinda do the same in Zavod right now. Maybe not in Rush per-say, but the map(s) in general can be just as barren and it shows the issues with too much destruction when long-sight lines are totally gained by snipers with no cover/ability to hide.
As far as smoke goes: Smoke lasts too little in BF4 and the smoke is still bugged to where people can spot through it. It wasn't fixed in BC2, it wasn't fixed in BF3, it wasn't fixed in BF4. Sure it's "tactical" but when I can just hammer Q/select on your cloud... what's the point?
BC1's more open design works. And they attempted that in BF4 on Golmund Highway, but the issue is the defense has constant high-ground there with no "low ground can't see" flank routes.
Again: I feel BF4 almost got the idea of too much/too little right, just... the map design is terrible for some of the sets because DICE didn't think class balance at the same time.
Milennia said:I understand this is their first real attempt at advertising their ideas for epsorts, but it flopped, so lets see what refinements the next installment brings with it.
Huh? BF3 was a quick attempt at advertising their ideas for #yoesports, but that didn't work because no one used those tournament organizing things in-game.
Not really. You must forget the times where I crumbled buildingsto take crates, C4/AT mine/etc. shenanigans to harm the crates and when on defense blowing entire cover/trees away to easily see people.thank god DICE changed that in BF3 on
You can kinda do the same in Zavod right now. Maybe not in Rush per-say, but the map(s) in general can be just as barren and it shows the issues with too much destruction when long-sight lines are totally gained by snipers with no cover/ability to hide.
Again: I feel BF4 almost got the idea of too much/too little right, just... the map design is terrible for some of the sets because DICE didn't think class balance at the same time.
Huh? BF3 was a quick attempt at advertising their ideas for #yoesports, but that didn't work because no one used those tournament organizing things in-game.
By which i mean, advertising esports.
Meaning non player organized tournaments that are sanctioned officially.
Something they most certainly did not advertise in Bf3 in the slightest, but did pre launch for Bf4.
And they did so hard.
We got 3 sanctioned tournaments and that was it, they dropped it and left it all to ESL.
Ah, got you. I thought you meant their first attempt at "competitive" when they tried that with BF3 itself and like BF3, just not built for it.
Yeah, its just another example of how they pushed something and didn't expand on it in further iterations.
Which they do with a ton of mechanics and game modes.
Such as rush after BC2.
By which i mean the fact it feels like an afterthought since and has just gone with the flow as they balance mechanics around conquest in the mainline titles now.
Unknown One
Member
Thankfully not all Mcoms were in destructable buildings and besides a team that takes those out early is rather foolish. If the opposing team is competent, they would flood the last mcom. Double arm tactics is the best, using the destructable mcom as bait for the other.
Destructability wasn't the huge problem anyways. mcom bashing was for most of the game's lifespan. I use to snipe the attacker's tanks that was sniping our mcoms in arica harbor while fighting the other tanks.
Destruction by defenders I single handily countered for gaf with smoke grenade spam back then since I always had it on attack. It's useful for arming and defusing as well. I use it in this game with a health pack.
There were only a few maps where you could abuse it. Only Nelson bay you could really have a huge advantage. I was the one who started using the scorch and burn tactic for ps3 bc2 gaf afterall. Faceless helped out on nelson bay to make it faster. Most of us hated that map. The tactic originally started to give attackers no hiding spot near the mcoms. I got bored and destroyed everything in sight.
But yeah we overcame it with smoke grenades back then. Damn I miss ammo packs for assaults.
Smoking has a psychlogical facter. Most people are afraid of walking through it. They stay still a lot. Even in bf4. It didn't last long thats why I needed to spam it.
Destructability wasn't the huge problem anyways. mcom bashing was for most of the game's lifespan. I use to snipe the attacker's tanks that was sniping our mcoms in arica harbor while fighting the other tanks.
Destruction by defenders I single handily countered for gaf with smoke grenade spam back then since I always had it on attack. It's useful for arming and defusing as well. I use it in this game with a health pack.
There were only a few maps where you could abuse it. Only Nelson bay you could really have a huge advantage. I was the one who started using the scorch and burn tactic for ps3 bc2 gaf afterall. Faceless helped out on nelson bay to make it faster. Most of us hated that map. The tactic originally started to give attackers no hiding spot near the mcoms. I got bored and destroyed everything in sight.
But yeah we overcame it with smoke grenades back then. Damn I miss ammo packs for assaults.
Smoking has a psychlogical facter. Most people are afraid of walking through it. They stay still a lot. Even in bf4. It didn't last long thats why I needed to spam it.
Unknown One
Member
In bf4 it has a counter sadly. It can't do much in bf4 due to designs as well. The open areas with no covers is the weakness. Works best in bottlenecks and arming.
Right, but you're missing my point. Destruction can tip the balance toward one side or another. BF3 knee-jerked too hard on the destruction to where in Rush defense was STRONGLY favored. They've tried to rebalance that in BF4 and I feel they hit the "you can destroy things but there is still some cover to let the attackers attack instead of just spawning to their doom (Nelson Bay defense of us C4ing the trees)" but the problem is they didn't design the maps for the mode in mind to where some things (like the continuing hill/mountain climb in Golmund) just doesn't work because there isn't enough cover from the defense for the attackers to reach it.
I'm waiting for the rest of the DLC before I give a final verdict on their destruction balance for the mode so far, but I'd blame most of the map design on Rush's faults more than the "lack" of destruction.
I'm waiting for the rest of the DLC before I give a final verdict on their destruction balance for the mode so far, but I'd blame most of the map design on Rush's faults more than the "lack" of destruction.
endlessflood
Member
I've gone back and played a bit of BFBC2 Rush on PS3 recently. Contrary to what Seks said, I don't find it clunky at all, I still find it superior to BF3 and BF4. The only major things I wish were different are quick-scoping, front knifing, and chopper circle-strafing/AA options.They completely missed it. Rush needs a lot of cover area for attacks. Lots of hiding destructable areas is a must. Compared to bc2 bf4 is barren. Rush is all about sneaking and fast, hence the name Rush.
Destruction does have a counter. I did it all the time in bc2, it's called smoke. The most useful grenade in the game.
Also smoke in BFBC2 was pathetic in comparison to BF3 and BF4. That's about it. I haven't even had any issues with 'gardening' being a problem. I do miss teamchat from BF3, but BF4 doesn't have it anyway, and with chat rooms on PS3 you actually have better comms options in BFBC2 than you do in BF4 on PS4 anyway.
I would love to see the PC version of BFBC2 ported to PS4. I'd happily pay full price for that.
Unknown One
Member
I would rebuy it a heartbeat. Rush design for bf4 is terrible indeed. The maps weren't design to give attackers much hiding areas or sneaking routes. There were a lot of sneaking routes in bc2. I use to steal vehicles like the chopper for jm all the time.
Vehicle balance was better too. Maps were designed with certain vehicles in mind. Vehicle placement in bf4 rush was sloppy.
Another con is freaking commander. It's probably only added in game to sell the game to tablet users. Quite unneeded and I'd rather delete it.
Vehicle balance was better too. Maps were designed with certain vehicles in mind. Vehicle placement in bf4 rush was sloppy.
Another con is freaking commander. It's probably only added in game to sell the game to tablet users. Quite unneeded and I'd rather delete it.
Can we just agree that while BC1 was more clunky than BC2 (BC2 fixed some major issues for consoles to get BF) it had a better Rush design simply because it was a lot more open? If they made the crates not able to be objective harmed and had a few trees and cover around the crates not able to be destroyed so people can sneak in, it'd probably be perfect for 24-players. I dunno if they could bump that design up to 64-players but BC1's open map design for Rush was good. BC2 focused it too much to where there was choke-points and "lanes" and not letting one or two people able to sneak in and cause havoc if the defense wasn't paranoid about keeping around their base to catch those people.
(Yes, yes, there's "out of bounds" antics. But that isn't a replacement for BC1's IN-BOUNDS sneaking)
It's the one major thing I'm missing from BC2 on: The ability to sneak around a team if they aren't watching all sides and taking a wide-berth to their base to reach the objectives.
Nope. PC BF2 players wanted it. And it's half assed compared to BF2's. Just horrible all-around and I wish Commander would be off most servers because it kinda breaks the game in having people be spotted despite silencers and perks for the mini-map in non-Commander gameplay.
(Yes, yes, there's "out of bounds" antics. But that isn't a replacement for BC1's IN-BOUNDS sneaking)
It's the one major thing I'm missing from BC2 on: The ability to sneak around a team if they aren't watching all sides and taking a wide-berth to their base to reach the objectives.
Another con is freaking commander. It's probably only added in game to sell the game to tablet users. Quite unneeded and I'd rather delete it.
Nope. PC BF2 players wanted it. And it's half assed compared to BF2's. Just horrible all-around and I wish Commander would be off most servers because it kinda breaks the game in having people be spotted despite silencers and perks for the mini-map in non-Commander gameplay.
The_Darkest_Red
Member
I'd pay $100 for that.I would love to see the PC version of BFBC2 ported to PS4. I'd happily pay full price for that.
Didn't play enough of BFBC2 to have much of an opinion, but I'd pay for an 'HD' version or whatever they want to call it. Hell, after playing BF3 last weekend for an extended period, it was hard to go back to BF4. There are things that I enjoy about both, but BF3 doesn't feel like I need to empty a clip, burst fire or otherwise, into someone to get them to go down.
Are you sure your card supports it? Do you have the latest drivers? Thats all i know about PC Gaming.spent some time on the mantle api and im getting consistent frame drops. im talking like down into the teens. wtf is this? anyone else having issues with mantle?
Also: I just read a post asking for "Noshahr Canals" in BF4.
I mean how can people be so wrong?
There is definitely something wrong with the headshot indicator, as in it's completely buggy. I've gotten it multiple times when I wasn't shot, but rather killed in action, twice while in a crashing helicopter. I even got it once when jumping over terrain, which is another fun bug. Even when being shot it feels like it's occurring to often.There's definitely something wrong after this patch. I don't know what they did to the netcode, but almost every death for me is a headshot now. This last round I counted 10 headshot deaths out of 12 total. Making me not want to play the game until the next patch.
Edit: This is exactly the kinda shit I'm experiencing since the patch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkQDtOYim6M
I've been getting KIA with headshot indicators.I think that the Random Killed In Action thing is a desync.
So if the servers sees something funky BAM! KIA
Ive been KIA just walking around with no near enemies or vehicles.
eeeehhhh
Liquidsnake
Banned
Here's the carbines. Sadly no MTAR accuracy points.
So what does this mean?
Ace 52 is beast?
Unknown One
Member
So what does this mean?
Ace 52 is beast?
It is a beast. If you can put ACE 52 in the assault category, it'll be among the top weapons in that category. The only con is the muzzle velocity.
I think that the Random Killed In Action thing is a desync.
So if the servers sees something funky BAM! KIA
Ive been KIA just walking around with no near enemies or vehicles.
I wondered about that...I went prone over the weekend to heal, stood up and bam KIA. I've only had it happen once so I wasn't too worried about it.
On another note, slam mines make for some entertaining mind games. I had a lot of fun baiting tanks and lavs around corners with rpg fire and watching them fall for it every time.
Can the slams be made into makeshift c4?
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