BIONIC-ARRRMMM!!
Member
I have 52/52 cards in tag climax and still never faced Rodin. Am I missing something or is this shit really that random?
I want to unlock him already ;_;
I want to unlock him already ;_;
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Bayonetta 2 |OT| The time has come, and so have Wii!
- Thread starter Nemesis_
- Start date
Muchi Muchi Pink
Member
3 Star Rodin? Let's taunt him and see what happens. uuuuuuuuuuuuugh.
I know some gafers are german so here is a new competition for Bayonetta 2. Prices are 2x First Print Edition, 5x Poster Bayonetta 2 metallic Look (Limited to 300 copies) and 10 x Blu-Ray Bayonetta: Bloody Fate. http://www.nintendo.de/News/2014/November/Gewinnspiel-Die-Hexe-ist-zuruck--935576.html
You need to be a resident of Germany to participate though. Sorry everyone else.
Out_Of_Ammo
Member
Rodin is the 53th card. He gets added when you beat him if he shows up.
BIONIC-ARRRMMM!!
Member
SanguineShark
Member
I would honestly love some DLC revolving around Masked Lumen
. Something akin to Jetstream Sam or Wolf from MGR.
Sadly, don't see this game getting a lot of support.
Balder
Sadly, don't see this game getting a lot of support.
Consistency is always appreciated in a game that sells itself on deep combat mechanics. It's not fun when you're enjoying the combat and suddenly you're forced to play a completely different game for an extended period of time.
And yes, those sections are fundamentally broken. The motorcycle and missile sections are badly designed and not fun. They go on for too long, the camera is godawful, and the physics in the motorcycle part are terrible. I don't see what's so revisionist about disliking these aspects, because I don't remember anybody really liking them. This is not a recent thing, so don't blame this on the attitude of "today's gamer".
Astral Dog
Member
Bayonetta 2 wasnt even 10 on NPD 
Neff
Member
I honestly don't see why, but hey.
No, I think I will. This sort of thing was much more palatable to players twenty or even ten years ago, and the first Bayonetta up until recently enjoyed a reverent reputation among its fans, which isn't something you hear a lot of post-Bayo 2. I'll certainly agree that Route 666 is too long and I think anyone would, but to call the camera 'godawful' or the physics 'terrible' wouldn't be the best or most convincing argument against them I've heard (Personally, I had no problem with the camera, and I like Super Hang-On with guns). My idea of broken would be a glitch or oversight that stops a game performing its intended and stated function. Bayonetta's minigames and QTEs are entirely fair, logical and possible if you're paying attention.
I can respect that people don't like these sections, but it's striking to me that many tend to single them out with vague criticisms, usually relating to deficiencies in performance which ends up robbing them of a shiny little icon.
I haven't been able to tag climax with ANYBODY in this game since launch. I have to wait 180 seconds for someone to respond and they NEVER do. WTF. Why is this so hard? Does anyone else have this issue?
How does this mode work anyway? Even when I bet and win card scenarios, I lose my halos. What's the point of playing a mode that just drains my halos? Maybe I'm just missing something.
How does this mode work anyway? Even when I bet and win card scenarios, I lose my halos. What's the point of playing a mode that just drains my halos? Maybe I'm just missing something.
Tyrant Rave
Banned
If you win the verse card you will always make more than you bet...
Do you ever get player requests while playing with the CPU? I usually just wait for those and then accept them straight away. It's less boring than waiting for people to respond.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
and they're even better in the second game. The motorcycle equivalent is now half as long and has a better camera angle to more easily see upcoming obstacles, and the airplane section is also half as long with a camera that doesn't do an obnoxious spin every time you barrel roll. They fulfill their role as Kamiya-esque breaks from the typical action, without ever wearing out their welcome and having a more accommodating camera system for the player.
They even went a step further with the Mech suit, marrying your typical controls to a unique spectacle filled level, all at once adding variety to the game design but without completely doing away with the core competencies the player has learned through the game.
So I have to turn your argument around, in that I have yet to see you articulate a convincing complaint against Bayonetta 2's slicker combat, improved visuals and image quality, framerate that never tanks to City on Fire/fighting on back of trucks/Bayo 1 prologue/various areas in the Tower depths, or streamlined minigames that goes beyond "Kamiya something something"
justjustin
Member
Unfortunately, it's most practical to play with a CPU if you want to earn a lot of halos in that mode-- you have more control over the outcomes that way. I've played with a handful of people purely for fun, but I'm also guilty of pretending no one is inviting me.
The reason you're losing halos is because you need to have a higher score than your partner at the end of the stage to win the bet. You're working together but also competing to do the most damage for the bonus bet halos.
I think the mode could be better organized to encourage playing with others. If I'm playing with a CPU I don't really want to be interrupted mid-fight or lose progress when I accept an invitation. Plus, you can't know how skilled your partner is so it takes some trial and error-- and some bad bets and continues-- to figure out what you can accomplish without wasting each others' time.
The reason you're losing halos is because you need to have a higher score than your partner at the end of the stage to win the bet. You're working together but also competing to do the most damage for the bonus bet halos.
I think the mode could be better organized to encourage playing with others. If I'm playing with a CPU I don't really want to be interrupted mid-fight or lose progress when I accept an invitation. Plus, you can't know how skilled your partner is so it takes some trial and error-- and some bad bets and continues-- to figure out what you can accomplish without wasting each others' time.
It's not hard to understand. If you're sitting down to play a certain kind of game, you probably don't want it to suddenly turn into a completely different game, especially if that completely different game is half-assed.
The sequel does not have the things people disliked about the original, so the first game looks worse by comparison. Simple as that. And again, I don't recall anybody praising the minigames, so nothing has really changed.
There are times in both sequences where your own character model blocks your view. And when you go over what looks like a ramp, I'm pretty sure you're not supposed to instantly snap back onto the ground when you leave the edge. This happens a lot when the highway starts breaking up.
I am absolutely baffled that anybody would ever think this. There is nothing even remotely fair about the random insta-kill QTE's. How the hell is it logical to have to suddenly press the shoot button in order to safely land away from some lava after having jumped off a building?
There is nothing vague about the criticisms, you're just completely ignoring them and sticking to your own narrow point of view. The only reason people care about the rankings so much is because the game itself puts a ton of emphasis on them, and if a game is going to judge you on your performance, it should judge you on how good you are at the gameplay you've been getting better at over the course of several hours. Suddenly turning into a different game renders all of your accumulated skills completely useless, which makes people feel cheated.
Neff
Member
Actually framerate would be one of my more significant complaints against the game, and it seems to have come at the cost of the game's pretty visuals. Unless I have a broke-ass Wii U and your version flows like buttered tits.
I didn't feel that the combat was particularly slicker in B2. Dodge Offset feels the same, combos feel the same except for some input windows being a little larger, in fact I think the combat suffers a lot due to damage dealt being so low (and of course due to the framerate), and I never feel overwhelmed by enemy count in B2 unless it's a bunch of flying guys which you can win for free once you have the whip.
If you never played Space Harrier, After Burner, Out Run or Hang-On as a kid, I guess that stuff is lost on you, and you have my sympathies.
Actually the mech section was one of the lamest (if awesome-looking) sections of the game for me. If there were more techniques available to me during it than the two braindead 3-hit mashy combos I used throughout because they were so damn effective, I never found or needed them.
I'll stress that I'm not interested in tearing down B2 in case anyone thinks I am, It's a damn good game, but I think the sudden criticism of the first game in light of the sequel is unfair and misplaced,
especially since the first game is much better because blah blah Kamiya
Again, I have absolutely no idea why anyone should think this, especially in something as self-aware and frivolous as Bayonetta. Did people ever freak out at the biplane section in DMC or the jetski section in RE4? It would be news to me if they did.
Again, I never had a problem with it. It looks like shit, yeah, but from my perspective it plays fine, and is actually very easy to get a PP on anyway should you so desire.
Actually you were very vague in your last post, so there wasn't much for me to ignore or acknowledge either way, but you explained yourself in this one, even if I don't agree.
Never got requests. I don't get it.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
If you can find a Bayonetta 2 section with framerate as bad as the Wii U Bayo 1 fire levels or the back half of the tower of chapter 15, point them out to me. Show your work. Aint neither one of these games 60fps, but not a single one of Bayonetta 2 encounters look like this shit.
And if we're comparing references, Bayonetta 2 has Star Fox 64 complete with original sound effects and visual design. Sorry overlong Yu Suzuki references, that aint a fight you gonna win.
Astral Dog
Member
I prefer Bayonetta 1 too, but some of the things you say about the sequel seem a little off to me.
Didnt you said once Bayonetta 2 had a worse framerate than W101, and that it had worse textures and models than Bayonetta?
decoyplatypus
Member
I bought Bayonetta 2 last weekend and finished it tonight. I was surprised how easy it was to pick up and play. I guess I'd figured based on my cheesy technique in Legend of Korra and my incompetence at TW101 that the inputs would be too complicated for me to have much fun at all. But the game made it simple to execute flashy attacks (actually execute them, not just QTE them) and string together combos. Within minutes combat felt natural (it helped that the controls were as silky as advertised). And the game did a good job of nudging me toward sharper techniques without punishing me for being slow on the uptake. I am glad the positive word of mouth on GAF convinced me to ignore my distaste for the game's aesthetics. To be sure, the characters, the crotch shots, and the writing were every bit as annoying as I'd feared, but the game mechanics were so much better than I'd hoped that I didn't mind as much about the stupidity surrounding them.* I'm looking forward to stepping my game up on 3rd Climax.
*Not to bring up a sensitive topic, but I imagine that if you told the creators that some people found the game sexist, it would go something like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3Qn1uHlRIY
*Not to bring up a sensitive topic, but I imagine that if you told the creators that some people found the game sexist, it would go something like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3Qn1uHlRIY
meitantei_conan
Member
Just finished the game. The only complaint I have
Aside from the that I loved everything else. They improved a lot from the first and packed a ton of content. Overall I'm happy and I cant wait to platinum it!
is that the ending was really lame. No epic boss fight like in the first. I was expecting the game to pull the same gag they pulled in W101. Then the ending cut scene with boulder made me think there was going more or at least one more epic fight....Then nothing.
Now all Nintendo has to do is fund a Bayonetta 3 for the wiiu2....;-;
Bayonetta 1 on Wii U looks great, same goes for the sequel.
I agree that in Bayonetta 2 those "kamiya-sections" or rather, mini-game/shmup sections and whatever you usually see in his games, are less annoying and more polished.
the horse in Inferno seemed like he was sliding and he was pretty fucking awful to watch but I found the whole section much more enjoyable than the motorcycle one in the first game. same goes for the shmup-esque part, the one in Bayonetta 1 where you are on that fucking rocket is just too damn long.
not implying that these sections shouldn't have been in the game, variety is good. (if only games like *cough* Vanquish had some of this stuff) I'm just agreeing that Bayonetta 2 did better in that regard.
with that being said, I strongly think that this sequel isn't better in everything in comparisong to the first game, not at all, as my earlier post suggested.
I agree that in Bayonetta 2 those "kamiya-sections" or rather, mini-game/shmup sections and whatever you usually see in his games, are less annoying and more polished.
the horse in Inferno seemed like he was sliding and he was pretty fucking awful to watch but I found the whole section much more enjoyable than the motorcycle one in the first game. same goes for the shmup-esque part, the one in Bayonetta 1 where you are on that fucking rocket is just too damn long.
not implying that these sections shouldn't have been in the game, variety is good. (if only games like *cough* Vanquish had some of this stuff) I'm just agreeing that Bayonetta 2 did better in that regard.
with that being said, I strongly think that this sequel isn't better in everything in comparisong to the first game, not at all, as my earlier post suggested.
Tyrant Rave
Banned
Honestly the only thing I'd say Bayonetta 1 did better than 2 was unlockables. I feel like there was more to do after finishing the first game but that was also the first game and now I kind of knew what to expect.
2 may not feel as fresh or as epic, and it may be lacking some "charm", but it's a super polished experience that holds up much better on replays. 1 was my favorite game of all time but I really think 2 has dethroned it for me. The bosses are better, I can't think of any levels I dread replaying, and most importantly, the weapons feel much more unique than they ever did in the first. The hammer, bow, whips, chainsaws, etc. all feel much more unique than the handguns, claws, shotguns, bazillions, etc. It feels really fucking strange to see so much discussion over the mini-game segments in 1 vs 2 when the regular combat is, and always will be, the star of these games. Platinum knocked it out of the park with the weapon variety in this one and I haven't seen nearly enough praise for that.
2 may not feel as fresh or as epic, and it may be lacking some "charm", but it's a super polished experience that holds up much better on replays. 1 was my favorite game of all time but I really think 2 has dethroned it for me. The bosses are better, I can't think of any levels I dread replaying, and most importantly, the weapons feel much more unique than they ever did in the first. The hammer, bow, whips, chainsaws, etc. all feel much more unique than the handguns, claws, shotguns, bazillions, etc. It feels really fucking strange to see so much discussion over the mini-game segments in 1 vs 2 when the regular combat is, and always will be, the star of these games. Platinum knocked it out of the park with the weapon variety in this one and I haven't seen nearly enough praise for that.
Just let me use him in the Witch Trials. They don't have any cutscenes to screw up! It's fine, really, I can handle it!
ViewtifulJC
Banned
Good point. Focusing so much on little mini-games in comparison to the main game seems kinda like missing the forest for the trees. I think Bayo2 just straight up has better weapons than Bayo 1. A larger variety of viable options against an even bigger array of enemy types, with a lot of great unique animations and combos instead of Bayo's arsenal of "Scar fair, but now its a shotgun. Scar fair, but now they shoot lasers. Scar fair, but now they're blue claws!". Love the new whips in comparison to the weak-ass utility weapon in the first one, love the hammer compared to the Kilgore, hell I even like Blue is Love more than the Scar Fair. Blue is Love kick chains >>>>> *.
Only thing I really miss is the Sai Fang.
edit: that was just the topic of the discussion in the last few pages, it's not like I (or other people) wrote that those sections are the main focus of the game.
the combat is pretty much the same, you just have new weapons and a new special move.
the new weapons feel more unique during the first run on both games but when you unlock everything in the first game you get a lot more of them. most are just a "different with a new skin" version of other weapons but the variety is surely there.
the combat is pretty much the same, you just have new weapons and a new special move.
the new weapons feel more unique during the first run on both games but when you unlock everything in the first game you get a lot more of them. most are just a "different with a new skin" version of other weapons but the variety is surely there.
nope. :c
Supermanisdead
Member
Ok, I unlocked the Masked Lumen, but is there no way to do practice mode with him?
Muchi Muchi Pink
Member
The best new added stuff is how Tetsuzankou works different with every weapon instead of being the same. And the umbran climax changes how boss fights work, something what JC already pointed out, that you have to earn the damage now instead of getting it for free.
There are so many small adjustments that make the combat in 2 the superior one. And the last boss might lack the "oomph" but is at least fun to play against without a shit camera angle.
So if you ask me who should direct the next Bayonetta (should it _ever_ happen), I'd say Hashimoto and Kuroda. _No_ contest.
There are so many small adjustments that make the combat in 2 the superior one. And the last boss might lack the "oomph" but is at least fun to play against without a shit camera angle.
So if you ask me who should direct the next Bayonetta (should it _ever_ happen), I'd say Hashimoto and Kuroda. _No_ contest.
sixteen-bit
Member
Is there a way to check which witch hearts you're missing? I saw for crows and bonus stages but nothing for hearts / moon pearls.
I'm only missing two heart pieces and I have no idea which ones they are, lol
I'm only missing two heart pieces and I have no idea which ones they are, lol
Muchi Muchi Pink
Member
Sadly no, but If I had to take a guess you probably miss a heart in chapter 1 right at the start in the water. And another one in the "underwater arena" in the gap on the left side.
MisterLuffy
Member
I wish. I'm missing 4 hearts and 2 moon pearls (I think). I know I've missed verses in some of the chapters, one of the verses may have the hearts and moon pearls I'm missing.
lord_of_flood
Member
If you hold down the button on the Undine weapons, they spew fire or ice at the enemy. Ice in particular can freeze enemies. I think the Undines might deal more damage to an enemy of the opposite element as well, though I've never really tested it out as I don't really care for the Undine weapons.
As for the bow, its arrows poison enemies and do a small amount of damage over time while the effect is active. An effective way to deal damage is to poison the enemy, switch to your main weapon and launch the main assault, then switch back to the bow to poison the enemy again once the effect wears off. Rinse and repeat.
Orniletter
Banned
I think Bayonetta 2 is better than the first too....which let´s be honest, should be a standard for sequels in general.
2 is just more polished and less annying in places, but 1 is still spectacular and one of the best games of last gen on it´s own.
I see Bayo 1 and 2 like I see Super Mario Galaxy 1+2: They are both superb games and which one you like more comes down to preference. The second game in both cases got rid of the more obnoxious elements of the first, but lacks the eye-opening "freshness" .
They really are 2 sides of the same coin.
2 is just more polished and less annying in places, but 1 is still spectacular and one of the best games of last gen on it´s own.
I see Bayo 1 and 2 like I see Super Mario Galaxy 1+2: They are both superb games and which one you like more comes down to preference. The second game in both cases got rid of the more obnoxious elements of the first, but lacks the eye-opening "freshness" .
They really are 2 sides of the same coin.
I LOVE Bayo1, but I'm not blinded enough by this love to not acknowledge the flaws it had. And it doesn't have anything to do with "newer players not being accustomed to genre switching", I'm 34 and have been playing since I have memories, I have played a lot of games that switch genres and loved them (Contra IV and Super Star Wars on the SNES come to mind, I loved every single stage of those games), the thing is that they have to be correctly done. Bayo 1s Hang On and Space Harrier stages lacked a lot of things for them to be considered well done (and yes, I played both games back when they were the hottest thing around). Sure they have no glitches, but they weren't fun either most of all in the context they are introduced in the game. For starters, they make use of oversimplified mechanics. You play for ten seconds and you have already reached the limit of what you can do. This, in a game where you are constantly striving to get better and learn new stuff to do based on evolving mechanics feels terribly out of place. They are also very repetitive and you have no sense of progression, which added to the length of both stages ends up making them feel tedious.
And believe it or not, I couldn't care less about ranks, achievements, trophies or any of that stuff.
Bayo1 does somethings better than 2 (no Bloody Palace on 2 is a BIG mistake), but the things it does worse than 2 overweight them in my opinion.
grandwizard
Member
This game makes me really want a Wonderful 101 sequel handed off to Hashimoto. That game could also use the same 'editing' that Bayo 1 needed which has turned Bayo 2 into a superior game overall. Lose or cut down the minigames significantly and focus more on your core gameplay and amazing boss fights and you have a sure win.
I can see people liking the minigames in Bayo1, but I never thought that there are players that don't see them as a somewhat broken mess that goes on for way too long. Which has its charme, but overall drags the game down a few notches for me, especially on replays, since they are still mandatory and even affect score which, in a game that relies on highscores and even ties content to it, is certainly a design decision that can be seen as a negative.
The sudden death QTE are on another level, that shit was just plain stupid and not having them in Bayo2 makes it so much better.
Need some orienational help for post game:
The sudden death QTE are on another level, that shit was just plain stupid and not having them in Bayo2 makes it so much better.
Need some orienational help for post game:
How should I start? Play through Lost Chapters and then go for all Platin on 2nd and 3rd climax? Is there a spoiler-free unlockables guide anywhere that just lists requirements?
Nocturnowl
Member
I'd actually argue that W101 works as well as it does because of its moments of variety, the core combat system is actually pretty simple when you get down to it and dialling the focus down to mainly that in the vein of Bayonetta 2 would not only possibly wear thin a bit too fast without the depth to back it up but also dilutes the whole superhero angle somewhat where each mission throws tons of varied situations at the team for their unite morphs to tackle in different ways.
Not to say that there's no editing to be done, those turret sections lean on being overly long and tedious as turret sections often do and while a lot better the underwater scrolling shooter section sticks around a bit too long as well. Otherwise I find the various pieces of the puzzle from Punch Out like bosses to even the twin stick ship flying destroyer of platinum runs are all things that fit what W101 is going for.
Of course opinions and all, I can see why a sequel with the little minigames and genre switch ups dialled back would be preferred.
Monocle
Member
Actually TW101's combat system is one of the deepest Platinum has ever made. See these videos and this interview.
The game's genre shifts are somewhat better than Bayonetta 1's, mechanically speaking, but by restricting the combat system or completely switching up the mechanics, they have exactly the same jarring effect. The minigames really killed the replay value for me, which is a shame because the combat system clicked right after I beat the game for the first time.
BTW, if people think Bayonetta 1 can be unforgiving, TW101 surpasses it ten times over with its harsh unlock conditions for bonus characters and the punishing nature of its design in general. I mean, preventing players from attacking and dodging and recovering fallen teammates when their battery meter is drained? Not very nice. If you play through Normal mode as a newcomer, the game practically dares you not to have a temper tantrum every five minutes. The learning curve is steep, to put it lightly.
Raptomex
Member
Yeah, the
the dragon fight in the prologue was more epic
Muchi Muchi Pink
Member
The Viewpoint level in tw101 is waaaay better than Space Harrier in Bayo 1, but yeah it's the level that I tried to avoid as much as possible....
sixteen-bit
Member
Thanks, I'll investigate. If it helps I have the Bewitchments for doing all Muspelheim challenges and opening all resting places, so it's not one of the hearts from those.
Me too...
Although I really miss the Lightsaber and a bunch of the other post game unlocks too... Bayo1 just had soooo much to do and master once you had "beat" the game. I ended up beating it on Infinite Endless Climax (highest diff or whatever) to finally unlock everything and there was STILL tons of stuff to learn about all the combo potential and weapon/item variations. That's my main disappointment with the sequel, not enough post-game SP stuff like that to master.Would be cool for a Xmas update for all this stuff plus more (Santa Rodin boss using Plat Ticket) plus Mask Balder hidden end boss secret, Jub can suck it, only playable on highest diff.
....but unfortunately won't happen.Nocturnowl
Member
My genre knowledge weakness has been rumbled, maybe I need to rephrase that whole depth thing, like that the combat system feels more about knowing how to best approach each enemy type and applying your knowledge correctly so you can counter effectively as opposed to the more frantic pace of Bayonetta's more free flowing combat.
The pace of W101's combat possibly leading it to benefit more from breaks in the standard brawling action every now and then, MAYBE I SHOULD JUST STOP.
But no, I do get what you mean about the minigames, I just think it's a slightly different angle to Bayonetta 1 vs 2 where the majority of the first games side outings detracted from the game in a much more noticeable way, I at least find that in W101 they can feel like an extension of the superhero and/or unite morph concepts.
I still don't even have all the standard wonderful ones, let alone the bonus characters, a combination of needing a guide to even find some of the fellas and then the bottlecap criteria to even get one character, not much a fan of how the game chose to hide some things either, much like both Bayonetta games really where backtracking at random points is the name of the game.
I think W101 unloads all its punishing nature early on so it starts off a lot less forgiving than Bayonetta, it's one hell of a difficulty incline when you start up lacking abilities and trying to make heads or tails of its unique angle, fortunately it stabilises a lot when the various systems in play click, on the other hand if it doesn't click then it's a frustrating experience to be sure (knocked it down to easy during my first run, no regrets).
Muchi Muchi Pink
Member
Breaking angel slayer apart in smaller bits is imo a way better approach then starting all over again, if you fuck up on the later enemies.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
I'm Owl's(ugh) side on this one, I actually don't think Wonderful 101's combat system is fun enough/deep enough/interesting enough to be a more streamlined Bayonetta experience with a focus on combat. Yeah we've all seen the Saur videos, I got all Platinums on Hard, I know. Juggles, spin moves, inputing moves and confirming shapes at the same time, I got it. W101 would require a big expansion in kind of combat you can do, the enemy types, core abilities, etc, like a Ninja Gaiden Black to Ninja Gaiden 2 kind of change. Which is something I'm not necessarily in fair of, because fuck Ninja Gaiden 2