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Bayonetta 2 |OT| The time has come, and so have Wii!
- Thread starter Nemesis_
- Start date
Agreed. I think it would've been cool if the Bayo 2 final battle featured
every angel summon and demon summon all at once
Which one?
Chapter 4, man. That was just superb. Like I'm making a movie cutscene of the fight with my own skills lol.
FlashbladeGAF
Member
Chapter 3's
gates of Paradiso looked like I was entering a final level
...and Chapter 4 was a
final boss fight.
...Chapter 4!!!
That was just so hype! It's 3AM here and I'm still feeling that adrenaline rush after that fight. I dunno if I can sleep properly after that lol.
Saint Gregory
Member
The funny thing is when they showed snips of that fight earlier this year some people were like "Aw man, why are they spoiling the final boss???" when everyone who plays Platinum games already knew better
Muchi Muchi Pink
Member
The best is yet to come.
Look forward to the second encounter then.
On a side note, I'm thinking of showing this game to some friends who aren't familiar with the series (or stylish character action games in general). If I were to play three chapters to capture the "essence" of Bayonetta 2, which three do you think I should play?
Muchi Muchi Pink
Member
Look forward to the second encounter then.
On a side note, I'm thinking of showing this game to some friends who aren't familiar with the series (or stylish character action games in general). If I were to play three chapters to capture the "essence" of Bayonetta 2, which three do you think I should play?
Definitely Chapter 12.
I think the best track so far is The Masked Lumen and all of its "segments". The fact that it calls back to an earlier Bayonetta 1 track (can you guess which one?) is what also makes it great too.
The best call-back was Bayonetta's quip at
The best call-back was Bayonetta's quip at
Balder about how "Sanity is a requirement of our kind", of which she's asked "And what kind may I ask that is?". "The kind of witches you don't fuck with."
Is that the
third Lumen Sage fight, in Inferno
on the unicorn
I'm thinking Chapter 4 would be a good one to show, due to the first Lumen Sage fight. I'd also be tempted to show the second fight (though the chapter number eludes me). And maybe Chapter 13,
the witch hunts in Vigrid
Out_Of_Ammo
Member
Anyone wants to play some tag climax?
Astral Dog
Member
Look forward to the second encounter then.
On a side note, I'm thinking of showing this game to some friends who aren't familiar with the series (or stylish character action games in general). If I were to play three chapters to capture the "essence" of Bayonetta 2, which three do you think I should play?
Definetly the prologue, Chapter 4 and
the very first part on the mech.
Neff
Member
Best track (aside from the vocal songs obviously)? The Giants
It's a big disappointment. The worst part is that it's
. Go play Wonderful 101 to get exactly what you're looking for.
NG2 (or in my case Sigma 2 after playing NG1), exactly represents the feel I had when I played Bayonetta 2. Like Sigma 2 it streamlines too much, to the point where combat starts to become less about surprises and more about routine, even being numbing at times. Kamiya understands the benefits of establishing pace by breaking up the action with light exploration, diversions and novelty twists on the combat, meaning that despite being an exercise in action combat purity, it also never got stale, even after playing it several times. After playing through Bayo 2 twice now, I feel that there's little left to discover or learn than I already know.
It's a big disappointment. The worst part is that it's
merely a variation on an underwhelming boss you've already fought, twice
NG2 (or in my case Sigma 2 after playing NG1), exactly represents the feel I had when I played Bayonetta 2. Like Sigma 2 it streamlines too much, to the point where combat starts to become less about surprises and more about routine, even being numbing at times. Kamiya understands the benefits of establishing pace by breaking up the action with light exploration, diversions and novelty twists on the combat, meaning that despite being an exercise in action combat purity, it also never got stale, even after playing it several times. After playing through Bayo 2 twice now, I feel that there's little left to discover or learn than I already know.
FlashbladeGAF
Member
The funny thing is when they showed snips of that fight earlier this year some people were like "Aw man, why are they spoiling the final boss???" when everyone who plays Platinum games already knew better
LOL very true.
Is that the? I'd be afraid to play the first part,third Lumen Sage fight, in Inferno, less than elegantly, haha.on the unicorn
I'm thinking Chapter 4 would be a good one to show, due to the first Lumen Sage fight. I'd also be tempted to show the second fight (though the chapter number eludes me). And maybe Chapter 13,, due to the atmosphere and variety of enemies.the witch hunts in Vigrid
I showed my friend chapter 3-4
Entering the gates in III and the Lumen fight in IV made his Wii-u hating jaw drop.
The only thing "numbing" in the Bayonetta series are the genre shifts, QTEs and exhaustively long chapters in Bayo 1. Bayo 2 fixed all of these issues for the better. There's still plenty of time to breathe in Bayo 2 if one simply takes the time to admire the environments and explore a bit off the beaten path for treasure chests, muspelheim, hidden verses and broken LPs.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
This is actually a big thing over why I still prefer Black to any of the sequels. The platforming was janky and the puzzles/level design weren't exactly zelda, but it had that kind of variation of pacing and ideas the sequels jettison in favor of just wave and wave of dudes. Its monotonous, no matter how complex and fast-paced the combat is.
But like you said, Bayo2 has just as many(if not more with the mecha) vehicle sections, its got an incredible range of unique enemy types and viable weapons, it still breaks up major encounters into verses in-between moving about lookin for heart pieces or filling up the umbran chests, underwater and flying sections, etc. The curve is flatter than Bayo1, but there are less bumps in the road, if this metaphor meets anything. And it still a smooth ride instead of a demolition derby, to stretch this metaphor to the point of absurdity.
edit: and this is TOTALLY off-topic but I really hate how Hayashi and his boys just streamlined the fuck out of the level design for NG. Black you had maps and shit, like RE4 you have paths that were blocked off so you spent a bit of time backtracking and learning the layouts and coming back when you have the right keys or hit the right switch, Japanese action games did that sort of thing a lot. The Aquadcuts was more of a hub like area you played around in, slowly exploring all its various nooks and carrnies and secret compartments.
And Talion was more of a hub world area you returned to, I mean...it wasn't like stage 1, 2, 3, you could go back to old areas, or discover Golden Scarabs or Life of the Gods, secret encounters or blocked off areas opening up. It felt more like an actual place and not like, stages you go through like The Evil Within unfortunately does
By NG3, you aint got no maps, no keys, no puzzles or any of that shit. You got long ass corridors full of dudes, hundreds of dudes, waves of mothafuckas, forever. That's the whole game, in-between QTEs and that kunai climb thing
Well-said, JC.
Ooo, Chapters 3-4 would be good ones to show, for sure.FlashbladeGAF said:
Jimnymebob
Member
If you're still looking for someone to play with then I'll have a go, and if not, if anyone fancies a go of Tag Climax then let me know.
My NNID is Jimnymebob, and I've added it to the Google doc.
Out_Of_Ammo
Member
Yup, my id is Za_Warud0. I'll be there in 5 minutes, just finishing a story chapter.
Neff
Member
Strongly disagree. The QTEs are easy as cake and entertaining, Space Harrier is boss forever, and I'm actually surprised when a B2 chapter ends abruptly, particularly if it's one without anything terribly new or interesting happening in it.
It's a good game, of course, but the original blows it away effortlessly.
Jimnymebob
Member
No problem. Don't hate me if I'm rubbish :lol.
FlashbladeGAF
Member
Someone mentioned it earlier but the gameplay variety with the core gameplay was better in Bayo1 than 2
It reminded me of RE4 versus RE5
RE4 had you doing a variety of objectives with the core gameplay.
Sniping to rescue Ashley, escorting Ashley safely, avoiding/distracting a blind wolverine, Indiana Jones and The Temple of Doom, etc... where RE5 was basically only shoot and run, or light gun/turret sections.
Same with Bayonetta, You had to protect Cereza, avoid drowning in a sunken ship, destroy
Baulder's building statues before it hits the earth
Bayo2 in comparison is all about the combat.
Luckily, unlike RE5, Bayo2's combat is worth the price alone.
Out_Of_Ammo
Member
Aight, I'm ready to go.
We'll have to agree to disagree, since we're basically just inverting each other's opinions, lol.
MiamiWesker
Member
I agree with this post. I am replaying Bayo 1 right now after beating 2 and wow the differences are so noticeable. Bayo 1 feels like a geniune action adventure game with many elements outside just fighting the next wave of enemies. Bayonetta 2 toned that down a ton which for many is probably a positive as it focused on just the best aspect of the game.
I enjoy platforming sections, puzzle elements and variety in my game situations. Even the boss battles in Bayonetta 1 were of the more multi staged kind while in Bayo 2 it was a lot of floating in air battles.
The biggest difference could be seen in the secret portal missions, the ones in Bayonetta 1 were like complex puzzles, the requirements were such where you needed to master a particular aspect of the combat system. In Bayonetta 2 they are almost an afterthought.
Both are fantastic and I can definitely see why someone would prefer either.
Out_Of_Ammo
Member
That last sage fight was close lol.
OrbitalBeard
Member
Chapters VI and VII
FUCK this game is so good
PLEASE tell me it stays this awesome.
FUCK this game is so good
PLEASE tell me it stays this awesome.
The only neg I got on this game is the lack of any real down time and exploration, but it's okay. The game really is the epitomal action gamer's wet dream game. Core focus on non stop combat and boss boss battles with the most comfy and precise controls made in years. Couldnt ask for anything more really.
Definitely on my GOTY list. Game is fucking fantastic. Jumping from this to Shadow of Bore-dor is...well I dont recommend it.
Definitely on my GOTY list. Game is fucking fantastic. Jumping from this to Shadow of Bore-dor is...well I dont recommend it.
Out_Of_Ammo
Member
GGs man! Gtg now though.
WOWOWOWOWOW I love this game, just finished my first playthrough.
Basically, this game... man... soooo much better than Bayo 1 on every level. I can't wait to replay through it on easier difficulties to unlock everything and then better my skill in preparation for infinite climax. This game is MEANT to be played a crap ton with so much stuff to play with. And I haven't even touched co-op yet (I gotta unlock the rest of the cards, I didn't do the Witch Trials 1-4 lol). My goodness... this game...! It's definitely a contender for GOTY for me.
Chapters 14-16 are all pretty awesome, I like the re-fights of the first game's bosses here better than what the first game did when you had to re-fight them leading up to Balder at the top of the tower. The mech is fucking awesome and the jet sequence is infinitely better than the missile riding one in Bayo 1.
However, I can see why people were disappointed by the final boss. To be honest, I found this boss much more fun than Bayo 1's final boss. I don't know, I like big bosses as much as the next person but fighting a guy that's equally the same size as you makes it more engaging and less about memorizing patterns. You're constantly on the move, dodging and parrying, it's just awesome. It is a little bothersome how the second phase re-uses the same attacks as the first phase, or even how the first phase is merely the same fight as when you fought him in front of the Gates of Hell.
I did like how the third phase went into an aerial battle as I immediately switched to the Kafka and played it similarly to what I did when you fight him the first time. The Kafka is really good for aerial battles, as... to be honest it's really awkward to control Bayonetta during these fights as opposed to how much control you have on the ground.
All in all, definitely not as amazing in scale as W101 or even Bayo 1 but still really fun. Also, the ending after the credits... is that really trying to loop back into Bayo 1? Is that like them going back into the past and basically showing how Balder becomes the Balder he is in Bayo 1? I actually found it kind of confusing on what happened to Balder in this game to begin with. First they show him in his weakened state from Bayo 1 near the dead God-monster thing and then next he's masked next to Aesir and he's younger looking and everything. Everything after that is fine but then when you go back into the past with Bayonetta (and Balder goes back as well) it's almost like the Balder you meet in the past and take to the future isn't the same Balder but then all of the sudden during the last fight he remembers Aesir...? I don't really understand, was there a bait and switch at some point with him? Plot hole?
Also, HOLY SHIT AT UNLOCKING THE CHAIN CHOMP AS A WEAPON. WOOOOOW. I didn't expect that at all, they really kept their mouths shut about it as I never heard anything about it pre-release. I tried it out for a bit, really awesome easter egg. I'm also a big fan of how you unlock both Jeanne AND Rosa to play as in the story mode, that... THAT is something I wish Rising had where you could play as Sam in Raiden's story -- would've been awesome.
However, I can see why people were disappointed by the final boss. To be honest, I found this boss much more fun than Bayo 1's final boss. I don't know, I like big bosses as much as the next person but fighting a guy that's equally the same size as you makes it more engaging and less about memorizing patterns. You're constantly on the move, dodging and parrying, it's just awesome. It is a little bothersome how the second phase re-uses the same attacks as the first phase, or even how the first phase is merely the same fight as when you fought him in front of the Gates of Hell.
I did like how the third phase went into an aerial battle as I immediately switched to the Kafka and played it similarly to what I did when you fight him the first time. The Kafka is really good for aerial battles, as... to be honest it's really awkward to control Bayonetta during these fights as opposed to how much control you have on the ground.
All in all, definitely not as amazing in scale as W101 or even Bayo 1 but still really fun. Also, the ending after the credits... is that really trying to loop back into Bayo 1? Is that like them going back into the past and basically showing how Balder becomes the Balder he is in Bayo 1? I actually found it kind of confusing on what happened to Balder in this game to begin with. First they show him in his weakened state from Bayo 1 near the dead God-monster thing and then next he's masked next to Aesir and he's younger looking and everything. Everything after that is fine but then when you go back into the past with Bayonetta (and Balder goes back as well) it's almost like the Balder you meet in the past and take to the future isn't the same Balder but then all of the sudden during the last fight he remembers Aesir...? I don't really understand, was there a bait and switch at some point with him? Plot hole?
Also, HOLY SHIT AT UNLOCKING THE CHAIN CHOMP AS A WEAPON. WOOOOOW. I didn't expect that at all, they really kept their mouths shut about it as I never heard anything about it pre-release. I tried it out for a bit, really awesome easter egg. I'm also a big fan of how you unlock both Jeanne AND Rosa to play as in the story mode, that... THAT is something I wish Rising had where you could play as Sam in Raiden's story -- would've been awesome.
Basically, this game... man... soooo much better than Bayo 1 on every level. I can't wait to replay through it on easier difficulties to unlock everything and then better my skill in preparation for infinite climax. This game is MEANT to be played a crap ton with so much stuff to play with. And I haven't even touched co-op yet (I gotta unlock the rest of the cards, I didn't do the Witch Trials 1-4 lol). My goodness... this game...! It's definitely a contender for GOTY for me.
Out_Of_Ammo
Member
Yaay!
Now on to infinite climax.
Now on to infinite climax.
MiamiWesker
Member
Right this is why I can see those that want to master the game would find Bayo 2 to be so much better. With Bayonetta 2 they removed every thing that could hurt a score outside the combat. In Bayo 1 you had instant death QTEs, gone. Falling down a pit would harm your character, gone. Levels where battles have all sorts of environmental hazards that can ruin your no damage run, gone. And of course the mini games levels that had nothing to do with combat.
Bayonetta 2 is streamlined combat section after combat section, totally pure action.
Jimnymebob
Member
Good games. I don't have that hammer weapon yet; I missed a piece of an LP around the
opening the Gates of Hell
The difficulty on those matches were a hell of a lot tougher than 2nd Climax though. Taking damage while using Bat Within was throwing me off for a second, too.
How come you were getting such a higher Halo count than I was? Do you have an accessory equipped, or am I just that awful?
Out_Of_Ammo
Member
No, I only had moon of chakalakasomething equiped. I don't really know how the scores are calculated. I'm guessing it's damage dealt since your score increases on each hit on an enemy. It was the first time I tried out that hammer, it's pretty great against large slow enemies.
Various Artists
Banned
Yaay!
Now on to infinite climax.
Awesome! Grats.
Jimnymebob
Member
Ah, right. I'll try and find the last piece of the LP for that then. It seemed to be doing some good damage.
I was worried the connection was going to be a bit like NG2S, i.e. terrible, but it was actually pretty damn smooth.
Oh and congrats on the platinums.
Net_Wrecker
Member
I'm split on the Bayo 1 vs. Bayo 2 discussion. I think Bayonetta 2 is absolutely a smoother experience with many improvements to the foundations laid in 2009, but it's been buffed to a focused shine almost to the point of routine. It's very polished and plays extremely well, but it's not as adventurous. You "get" Bayonetta 2 from the 1st chapter and it doesn't throw many curveballs at you after that, sticking to a fairly predictable pace, and encounter + level design throughout.
In 5 years if you ask me to revisit one of the games it'll be Bayonetta 2, so I guess that answers which one I think is better, but taking a step back and looking at the entire experience of both, Bayonetta 1 felt more whole, warts and all. Bayonetta 2 is pretty much the prototypical "great videogame sequel," accentuating the best parts of the previous game, but likely abandoning the parts of it that should've been improved rather than discarded. I find myself feeling this way about a ton of "2s" and "3s" in this industry.
Doesn't stop it from being GOTY, just sayin'.
In 5 years if you ask me to revisit one of the games it'll be Bayonetta 2, so I guess that answers which one I think is better, but taking a step back and looking at the entire experience of both, Bayonetta 1 felt more whole, warts and all. Bayonetta 2 is pretty much the prototypical "great videogame sequel," accentuating the best parts of the previous game, but likely abandoning the parts of it that should've been improved rather than discarded. I find myself feeling this way about a ton of "2s" and "3s" in this industry.
Doesn't stop it from being GOTY, just sayin'.
Yaay!
Now on to infinite climax.
my god.. is there any award or achievement for getting all platinums on 3rd climax? i know you get an accessorry for getting all gold on 2nd climax
The only thing I really miss from Bayo 1 is when you twirl the stick and hit the Kick button to do a handstand and shoot, in Bayo 1 the camera stayed behind Bayonetta as she twirled around to shoot, but in Bayo 2 the camera stays in place and Bayonetta just auto-targets anything flying nearby... which is probably more reliable, but man did it feel cool doing the handstand shooting in Bayo 1.
Out_Of_Ammo
Member
Yeah, I got an accessory. Climax bracelet 2 or something.
What do you get for all gold on second climax? I started on 3th and don't know if I got that by doing 3th climax.
Just realized most (all?) of my GOTY candidates this year are on Nintendo systems. This glut of good games is going to really split the Nintendo vote so that Bayonetta 2 probably won't get the points it deserves. :-\
I still can't get over the value of this package. The fact Bayo 1 is included doesn't affect my evaluation of Bayo 2, but man, when you step back and consider the package as a whole... I feel like I ripped off Nintendo only paying $60.
Also, Bayo 1 WiiU is so, so, SO sweet given the fact it spared me buying a 360 to play Bayo 1 "properly." Couldn't bring myself to play much of the PS3 version. So thanks again to Nintendo for offering such great value here.
I still can't get over the value of this package. The fact Bayo 1 is included doesn't affect my evaluation of Bayo 2, but man, when you step back and consider the package as a whole... I feel like I ripped off Nintendo only paying $60.
Also, Bayo 1 WiiU is so, so, SO sweet given the fact it spared me buying a 360 to play Bayo 1 "properly." Couldn't bring myself to play much of the PS3 version. So thanks again to Nintendo for offering such great value here.
bracelet of time i think
Monocle
Member
Put me in the camp that appreciates Bayonetta 2's streamlined approach. The original game was full of minor and not so minor annoyances that had me skipping a lot of missions during replays. All minigame levels, all large boss battles, Mission 3 for the fiery enemies and lava hazards, Mission 12 for the death pits and platforming and general lack of solid combat verses, etc.
On the other hand, I have no problem playing Bayonetta 2 all the way through. It's wonderful. It's brilliant. It's exactly what I wanted from a Bayonetta sequel. Bayonetta 2 has a tighter focus on the core combat, minus Kamiya's awful genre switches and unforgiving hazards and lame obstacles to fun like the Golem squishing you flat and making shockwaves while you're trying to fight and navigate the level. We get more of the good stuff: Battles big and small against a huge variety of enemies. Tons of rival bosses. Well paced missions of varying lengths that allow for both exploration and a focused race to the finish.
Hashimoto stripped out practically everything that wasn't fun in the first game, and personally I'm happy to see it all gone gone gone, not polished a bit and crowbarred back in (except for the improved vehicle sequences, which actually work now). Good riddance. Hashimoto made the right calls. As the director of Bayonetta 2, he proved himself to be the capable editor Kamiya needed in Bayonetta 1, and especially The Wonderful 101.
On the other hand, I have no problem playing Bayonetta 2 all the way through. It's wonderful. It's brilliant. It's exactly what I wanted from a Bayonetta sequel. Bayonetta 2 has a tighter focus on the core combat, minus Kamiya's awful genre switches and unforgiving hazards and lame obstacles to fun like the Golem squishing you flat and making shockwaves while you're trying to fight and navigate the level. We get more of the good stuff: Battles big and small against a huge variety of enemies. Tons of rival bosses. Well paced missions of varying lengths that allow for both exploration and a focused race to the finish.
Hashimoto stripped out practically everything that wasn't fun in the first game, and personally I'm happy to see it all gone gone gone, not polished a bit and crowbarred back in (except for the improved vehicle sequences, which actually work now). Good riddance. Hashimoto made the right calls. As the director of Bayonetta 2, he proved himself to be the capable editor Kamiya needed in Bayonetta 1, and especially The Wonderful 101.
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
The turret battle is just dodge when the shot is about to hit you and 666 is just hold forward though.
No mastery required. I think people really exaggerate how bad those sections are.
Space Harrier I'll give you is a lot longer than it needs to be and pretty difficult for people that don't play shooters, but can be made a lot easier with the right accessories.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
my main problem with space harrier was it was too fuckin' long and the damn screen did a vomit-inducing barrel roll along with you. And the motorcycle part was also too damn long and had a bad camera angle. Now they're half as long, the screen doesn't move, and the camera position for the motorcyle bit is higher and to the left so you can more clearly see obstacles heading your way. Problem solved, iterative design in effect, game is now better.
Monocle
Member
Nailed it.