-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Fimbulvetr
Member
roxya said:
It only happened that one time. D:
And it's still less annoying than that "a la God of War" thread a few months back.
RockmanWhore said:
I love how all of these impressions of the game being "super boring" and "repetitive" are based on your experience in Normal mode...what'd you expect? The game to throw you into a pit of difficulty that you'd never hope to climb out of on the first level? This isn't 1985, hard games don't need to "make you their bitch" immediately...it's progressive. If you still feel like bashing the game in a thread where people are most likely going to disagree with it, do it after at least finishing Hard/Climax mode. I'm not in Bayonetta defense mode, the game does have it's faults, but you need to take it for what it is: a ridiculous, over the top action game over flowing with satire and goofy fun.
Finished this a few days ago, swapping between playing Hard mode and finishing up some lost Alfheims. Ending was insanely funny and very entertaining. A sequel would be great. I think now that Platinum Games know that they can push the boundary even further, Bayonetta 2 will likely be even more ridiculous.
Fimbulvetr
Member
bluebird said:
It's not even normal mode;
We've discussed actual flaws in this thread and he never even touched on them.
He either gave up after the first chapter, only played the demo, or never actually touched the game at all.
Clear troll(and I fucking hate using that word).
eso76
Member
RockmanWhore said:
yeah, too many long cutscenes, too often. I ended up skipping most of them towards the end, which i never do. But that's because i wanted to get back to the game asap (whereas i would like being able to skip playable sequences and just watch cutscenes in other games
)No, sorry, you're wrong on just about everything.
See, I heard there's a lot more depth to Virtua Fighter than Tekken. But while i am a decent Tekken player, i just can't play VF; that's why my games with VF become random button mashing with no strategy (and no fun) at all while i can put a decent amount of strategy in a Tekken fight, since i know the combos and i more or less know what they do and under what circumstances they can be useful. This is how you end up believing there's more strategy in a game that actually offers less depth; you can master it easily and play with a better understanding of what's going on.
Bayonetta requires some time, generally one playthrough is not enough to fully understand the combat mechanics and appreciate the game.
You might think the game has no depth as long as you go on mashing buttons randomly, and you probably won't have much fun, but that's your fault. No problem with that, but a bigger fault is not realizing you don't know nearly enough about the game to judge it.
Ninja Moomin
Banned
Finished this last night... don't really get it at all.
Didn't find it that engaging, nothing of real excitement to speak. Seeing the same sub bosses over and over again got a bit thin.
I can certainly see why you might love it, but for me it wasn't the epoch in action games people make it out to be.
It's downright ugly in parts too.
Nonsense.
People can only judge games on their own expectations and experience. This is wholly subjective stuff we're talking about and people can expect to interact with the game on different levels and take away different experiences.
What does it really matter if one person didn't get the same out of it you did? Does that make your experience any different? Or vice versa?
There is no rule book to say how you have to interact a game to judge it by your own criteria.
Didn't find it that engaging, nothing of real excitement to speak. Seeing the same sub bosses over and over again got a bit thin.
I can certainly see why you might love it, but for me it wasn't the epoch in action games people make it out to be.
It's downright ugly in parts too.
eso76 said:
Nonsense.
People can only judge games on their own expectations and experience. This is wholly subjective stuff we're talking about and people can expect to interact with the game on different levels and take away different experiences.
What does it really matter if one person didn't get the same out of it you did? Does that make your experience any different? Or vice versa?
There is no rule book to say how you have to interact a game to judge it by your own criteria.
Those are not sub-bosses, those are regular enemies.NinjaFusion said:
There's a difference between saying "I didn't find the combat to be fun" and "there's no depth at all in the combat mechanics of this game". The first one is totally subjective, the second one demands that you *at least* know what you're talking about.NinjaFusion said:
And RockmanWhore clearly doesn't.
SecretBonusPoint
Banned
RockmanWhore said:
eso76
Member
NinjaFusion said:
Of course, but when they claim there's no depth, no strategy, no reason to use one combo over another and all enemies fight the same then they obviously ignore a lot of stuff about the game. This is not subjective stuff, this is just wrong claims.
"I liked it, i didn't like it, i hated it, i prefer DMC/NG/GOW", now that's subjective. "Game has no depth" is stated as fact, and is wrong.
Like i said in my example, i can certainly claim i have no fun playing VF (because) i don't use any strategy (since my knowledge of the game is too limited for me to actually think of any) but if i said VF is a shallow fighter with no depth then people would be right in telling me i should spend a lot more quality time with the game before making such claims.
Rayven_king
Member
RockmanWhore said:
Jack Random
Member
eso76 said:
Totally agree here, Hell, i've 1000/1000ed Bayonetta, and i still feel like there are parts of the combat system that are over my head. If someone says the system has no depth, they are factually incorrect
Dabookerman
Member
LiK said:
I don't think most of us do. We just reply to pass the time.
StuBurns said:
Well you won't get lost. I ain't played much of GoW..
There isn't any back tracking in Bayonetta UNLESS you're going for the hidden secrets.
Your first play through will not need any back tracking at all.
Why are ya'll replying to the troll? :lol
And Bayonetta 2 would be spooge worthy. They just need to fix a few fundamental things:
*Scrap QTEs (or at least have it so failing one doesn't affect your end of stage score)
*Better leaderboard implementation (ala Trials HD or Geometry Wars 2)
*Have the PS3 version be up to par with the 360 version to keep the console warriors at bay.
And Bayonetta 2 would be spooge worthy. They just need to fix a few fundamental things:
*Scrap QTEs (or at least have it so failing one doesn't affect your end of stage score)
*Better leaderboard implementation (ala Trials HD or Geometry Wars 2)
*Have the PS3 version be up to par with the 360 version to keep the console warriors at bay.
Speaking about a sequel, I've just been sent this link: http://gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2010/01/21/news-bayonetta-2-practically-confirmed-almost.aspx
Scythesurge
Member
Me too, literally anything Kamiya and his team does interests me immensely.LiK said:Anything is fine with me
RockmanWhore
Member
StuBurns said:
Of course no, since I'm obviously a troll who have just played the demo. Anyway, I guess I'll try to be more delicate in my hard run, but I just don't see the fun in "dancing games", so if the enemies aren't more aggressive and more interesting to fight I'll just give up half way and re-play some Ninja Gaiden. The normal mode is so empty, there is plenty of room for new enemies, new boss attacks, etc...
They also need to fix the loading, it's fine to have a training mode instead of a "now loading" logo. But for a fast paced action game where you're supposed to get your ass kicked over and over, the minimum would be instant replay. They need to play some God of War and learn how levels in action games should be designed. Those japanese devs should look at occidental games sometimes, they're not that bad.
It does make the loadings faster, but it can also worsen tearing and framerate issues. It doesn't seem to be a 100% case scenario, though, as a friend of mine with a brand new 360 told me that his install didn't have those kind of problems: it might have to do with the level of fragmentation of your HDD.Mejilan said:
In other words: try it for yourself! ^^
RockmanWhore
Member
LiK said:
Xbox version installed on the hard drive, there is like 10-15 seconds of loading everytime you die, it didn't pissed me off yet since I found the game pretty easy so far. But I can see this being annoying in the harder modes or for people who are new to action games.
RockmanWhore said:
And what exactly makes GoW level design any better than Bayonetta? GoW is more cinematic, with a great use of fixed camera angles and music, but when it comes down to gameplay it's still a series of corridors and invisible walls. There are some very simple puzzles, but they're just there to slow down the pace and they can hardly be considered as an important gameplay element.
I have the game installed on my 120 hdd. Loading is pretty fast overall. In one way its a bit of a hindrence. I don't see any true practice mode in the game, so when I practice moves during loading I only have like 4 seconds.
Haven't noticed much tearing.
I haven't finished Bayonetta yet but I don't like the idea of a spinoff game. I want to be able to use Bayonetta in the sequel.
Haven't noticed much tearing.
Augemitbutter said:
I haven't finished Bayonetta yet but I don't like the idea of a spinoff game. I want to be able to use Bayonetta in the sequel.
I'm one of the people who did notice more tearing while playing the game off the hard disk. I also got a "disc unreadable" error despite the game being installed, and this has happened in the past with other games (MW2 and FC2), so I suspect that my 3.5 year old 20gigger is at fault here, and that someone with a new hard disk might not encounter worse performance in terms of frame-rate and tearing or at least not as much.
Ultimo hombre
Banned
Let's get the "lol at rockmanwhore" out of the way first. Having done that, I'm quite happy to see a Bayonetta 2.
I'm almost at 1000/1000 and that's something I never thought I'd go for in an action game. God damn what a game. After I'm done, I'm gonna put the game away for a few month and then do a hard run just to see how I've lost.
I'm almost at 1000/1000 and that's something I never thought I'd go for in an action game. God damn what a game. After I'm done, I'm gonna put the game away for a few month and then do a hard run just to see how I've lost.
RockmanWhore
Member
danmaku said:
And yet they are, slow part are as important as epic set pieces. Also puzzles help to get you in a certain mood, those puzzles, while simple are really well designed. The levels have some interesting layout and make tons of sense, you're not randomly going trough corridor, you always have a clear goal. They really improve the pacing. Bayonetta attempts to bring some variety too, but it does it with boring and overly long bike and shooting sequence. There are some puzzles here and there, but they're not very clever. The cut scenes are way too long too, especially in the beginning of the game.
The invisible walls can be annoying though, I can give you that. But as far as level design goes in beat em all, there isn't much better than the God of War series.
gutter_trash
Banned
I need some advice on weapon combination for effectiveness
I am currently playing Hard mode and I am getting my ass kicked so bad.
I am currently playing Hard mode and I am getting my ass kicked so bad.
Fimbulvetr
Member
RockmanWhore said:
I just find it strange that you talk about difficulty and combat depth, then talk about GOW.
Also listing responsive dodging as a flaw. Because the game giving you a fair chance is just so lame.
Jack Random
Member
Ultimo hombre said:
Funny thing, I got my 1000/1000 and was jonezing for some more action, so i popped in DMC4, which at the time i remember enjoying. Post-Bayonetta, it's borderline unplayable
RockmanWhore said:
You're right, but it's strange that in the same post you praise Ninja Gaiden, which is by far the worst offender in this department. Bayonetta is pretty much like NG, it doesn't need an elaborate level design because it's all about combat. You can feel your progression through combat, as you learn the ropes of the fighting system, and imho it's much better because it allows more replayability. Vehicle stages are lame, no doubts about that.
Maybe you are disappointed because Bayonetta hides its complexity in the scoring system, if you expect aggressive enemies NG-style you won't find them (even if Hard mode is quite challenging if you want to complete chapters without dying).
Flachmatuch
Member
I love this game. Used to like NG better than DMC because it has a more integrated defense, but the new dodge thing seems to work awesomely well (in fact it's similar to the Impact (iirc?) thing in the Hurricane Pack, just better). Only played a couple of hours, but combat feels super nice actually. It feels the same as the better NG fights, combined with the DMC "stylish" stuff, which I don't really care about usually but I think it adds a bit of variety and more stuff to learn when you're already good with the basics.
quinntendopower
Banned
he doesn't hate the game, he'd rather watch a shirtless hero run around then a badass witch who blows kisses and wears glasses.
no depth? then he said something about 10000 combos?
whassa madda wee yoooooo
no depth? then he said something about 10000 combos?
whassa madda wee yoooooo
RockmanWhore
Member
Fimbulvetr said:
The dodge is too permissive. You have a huge invisible frame, and it cancels every imaginable move. It would be nice if the enemies were a lot more aggressive to counter balance that, but it's the opposite. And I think the combat is poor because your just doing combo and dodging. In Ninja Gaiden you can use the walls, you can grab the enemies, you can charge orbs to make powerful attacks, you can block, you can parry, etc... In Bayonneta you just hit them and dodge whenever someone bothers attacking you. If you're not into the whole combo thing, it's a very poor action game. The is an invincible frame in NG too when you're rolling, but if you roll into the wrong direction, you'll get hit, in Bayonetta you just press R and call it a day, the same applies for God of War. I don't know, for me when I play an action game, I want to feel threatened, I want to respect my enemy. I don't want to own every body after 5 minutes. Bosses are supposed to kick my ass and seem impossible to kill at first, and then I slowly understand how to survive, then I understand how to damage him, then I own him. In Bayonetta I just mash the button and dodge once in a while.
Comparing God of War and Bayonetta is a bit strange. It is almost like comparing Ridge Racer to Gran Turismo. Each game excels at different things even though they are both ultimately racing games.
I would qualify this with NG2. NG1 Xbox had a nice adventure feel to the game. NG2 went almost straight arcade style. If a NG3 is made, I hope Team Ninja falls back towards the level design of the first game.
danmaku said:
I would qualify this with NG2. NG1 Xbox had a nice adventure feel to the game. NG2 went almost straight arcade style. If a NG3 is made, I hope Team Ninja falls back towards the level design of the first game.
Bayonetta looks like it had influences not only from DMC, but also NG and GOW. I can see different forms of it when I was playing the game. comparing them directly isn't quite fair. Of course Kamiya also included some other bits of games from his days at Clover. It's a nice amalgam, imo
Flachmatuch
Member
quinntendopower said:
Having 10000 combos doesn't have much to do with depth, he's absolutely right about that.
RockmanWhore said:
Don't know about that...I loved NG but it felt the same-ish after a few playthroughs, I would have loved to have more moves and stuff. Anyway, iirc the fights in NG where you could actually use all the tools you had at your disposal were few and far between, and also became pretty easy after a while. The parry was often worthless, there were often no walls (and I could never really integrate throws) and so on. But yeah, NG had a really fun defense play and was also super fluid in its best moments, which is the main reason I liked it.
danmaku said:
I disagree with this. Bayonetta's getting naked while charging up the hair stuff ffs
Anyway, there's nothing wrong with this stuff, it's not very tasteful and subtle, but wtf do you expect from videogames.Oh yeah, I agree with this completely. These games should have much less adventure stuff in them (possibly none, or skippable on subsequent playthroughs). Level design should be all about arenas, and maybe looking cool.