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BAYONETTA An Action Game by Hideki Kamiya |OT|

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RockmanWhore said:
The dodge is too permissive. You have a huge invisible frame, and it cancels every imaginable move. It would be nice if the enemies were a lot more aggressive to counter balance that, but it's the opposite. And I think the combat is poor because your just doing combo and dodging. In Ninja Gaiden you can use the walls, you can grab the enemies, you can charge orbs to make powerful attacks, you can block, you can parry, etc... In Bayonneta you just hit them and dodge whenever someone bothers attacking you. If you're not into the whole combo thing, it's a very poor action game. The is an invincible frame in NG too when you're rolling, but if you roll into the wrong direction, you'll get hit, in Bayonetta you just press R and call it a day, the same applies for God of War. I don't know, for me when I play an action game, I want to feel threatened, I want to respect my enemy. I don't want to own every body after 5 minutes. Bosses are supposed to kick my ass and seem impossible to kill at first, and then I slowly understand how to survive, then I understand how to damage him, then I own him. In Bayonetta I just mash the button and dodge once in a while.

You can do all the bold things, but those abilities are grafted on to specific weapons which you need to find or accessories.

I don't remember the direction of a dodge in GOW being that important at all(hell I'm pretty sure you could roll through attacks), nor do I remember any truly difficult enemies.

At the same time, I would say Bayonetta has less variety in level design than GOW but certainly more than NG(or at least NG2).

Then again I haven't played the first NG in a while. :/

If you're not into the combo system, yeah I can see not liking Bayonetta for that reason. But you failed to make that very apparent in that initial post of yours and you called out Bayonetta for having to memorize button combos right? square, square, triangle. :|

Bayonetta is middling between those two games in terms of difficulty(NG is harder), and level design(GOW's is better). But never bad at any of the two.
 

Shito

Member
RockmanWhore said:
In Ninja Gaiden you can use the walls, you can grab the enemies, you can charge orbs to make powerful attacks, you can block, you can parry, etc... In Bayonneta you just hit them and dodge whenever someone bothers attacking you.
See, we're back to square #1: you didn't play the game enough to judge its combat system, as you fail to realize that a lot of those things *are* in Bayonetta. For example, the accessory that lets you parry.
You also clearly didn't touch the harder difficulties, nor the survival mode, so all of your "enemies are not aggressive enough" points are moot.
Do yourself a favor: play the game a bit (lot) more, or just stop trying to sound like you know what you're talking about - maybe then you'll realize that what seems to be the biggest offender in your eyes (the dodge mechanics) are merely safety wheels, there to teach you the game before you start with the real thing, the last difficulty mode that forbids you to use it.
 

MMaRsu

Member
LiK said:
Goddamn you guys, just have fun with it. If not, toss it into the garbage. *pouts*

Either have fun with it or throw it away!

Some of you guys can't take criticism too well :p. Anyway started the game again last night and got up to the third chapter or something, somewhere in Vigrid. Pretty cool so far, but nothing REALLY special. I don't see the OMG BEST ACTION GAME EVER stuff yet. Hopefully it will come ^^.

Combat system is fun, but a little mashy sometimes. Maybe I just need to find the right combo's. I do enjoy some of the combo's I'm able to pull off consistently though. Graphics are amazing, cutscenes are pretty cool but make no sense whatsoever.
 
ultim8p00 said:
I love the combat and the gameplay in this game and HATE EVERYTHING ELSE.

Stupid cutscenes
Stupid dialogue
Bayonetta is stupid as a character
All the blatant ass/vagina shots are just really fucking stupid and vulgar.

The game is great, but my god I hate all that shit.

Flachmatuch said:
Bayonetta's getting naked while charging up the hair stuff ffs :) Anyway, there's nothing wrong with this stuff, it's not very tasteful and subtle, but wtf do you expect from videogames..


http://www.gamepro.com/article/features/213466/bayonetta-empowering-or-exploitative/

From the article Bayonetta: empowering or exploitative?...
...Kamiya's thematic choice for Bayonetta is an undercurrent that unifies the entire game, thus giving her sexuality context -- and context is the most important consideration in judging whether an element is appropriate or not.

As gamers, we don't always pick up a controller and immediately expect that the character on screen will be a representation of ourselves -- if we did, then it's possible that the overblown macho male characters we see in games with impossible strength and unbelievable musculature would offend male gamers. We must not assume that female players are so fragile that they view a stylized female body as a personal affront.

To prohibit a character like Bayonetta, and rush to cover her up in disapproval, is a rejection of her particular brand of femininity. Why do that? Because she makes men uncomfortable? If men feel uncomfortable with Bayonetta, maybe that means she succeeds...
 

LiK

Member
MMaRsu said:
Either have fun with it or throw it away!

Some of you guys can't take criticism too well :p. Anyway started the game again last night and got up to the third chapter or something, somewhere in Vigrid. Pretty cool so far, but nothing REALLY special. I don't see the OMG BEST ACTION GAME EVER stuff yet. Hopefully it will come ^^.

Combat system is fun, but a little mashy sometimes. Maybe I just need to find the right combo's. I do enjoy some of the combo's I'm able to pull off consistently though. Graphics are amazing, cutscenes are pretty cool but make no sense whatsoever.
I just think people are overanalyzing the game to death. :lol

and the third chapter is nothing. Just wait until you get to the later sections. I'll expect you to change your mind!
 

Anso

Member
Climax Edition FINALLY arrived from Play.com today. Guess they don't like shipping to Sweden. Way to be slow, asswipes.

And now I'm away from home during the weekend so I can't play it D:<
 

roxya

Member
Shito said:
You also clearly didn't touch the harder difficulties, nor the survival mode, so all of your "enemies are not aggressive enough" points are moot.

It would be moot if hard was unlocked from the start.
 

LiK

Member
roxya said:
It would be moot if hard was unlocked from the start.
Actually, that would ruin the introduction of the enemies in Normal since tougher enemies appear earlier in Hard. the introduction of Joy cannot be compared :)
 

Minamu

Member
Alright, I "finally" beat Hard an hour ago or so. Climax achievement left :D I was really lucky & beat it with a time of 2:56 :lol Overall pretty easy even if I got stones on half of the chapters because I wasn't careful enough since I was just going for achievements & time...

Verse 2 of the Vestibule was pathetic on Climax if you just had brains enough to finish verse 1 with a full orb bar so you had enough to do 3 tortures within a minute :)
 
RockmanWhore said:
Like you I love GoW and NG but hate DMC. And boy, how I hate Bayonetta.
You know, this actually makes me even more excited to play this game when it drops price and/or I come by a source of disposable income. :D
 
RockmanWhore said:
The dodge is too permissive. You have a huge invisible frame, and it cancels every imaginable move. It would be nice if the enemies were a lot more aggressive to counter balance that, but it's the opposite. And I think the combat is poor because your just doing combo and dodging. In Ninja Gaiden you can use the walls, you can grab the enemies, you can charge orbs to make powerful attacks, you can block, you can parry, etc... In Bayonneta you just hit them and dodge whenever someone bothers attacking you. If you're not into the whole combo thing, it's a very poor action game. The is an invincible frame in NG too when you're rolling, but if you roll into the wrong direction, you'll get hit, in Bayonetta you just press R and call it a day, the same applies for God of War. I don't know, for me when I play an action game, I want to feel threatened, I want to respect my enemy. I don't want to own every body after 5 minutes. Bosses are supposed to kick my ass and seem impossible to kill at first, and then I slowly understand how to survive, then I understand how to damage him, then I own him. In Bayonetta I just mash the button and dodge once in a while.

Have you played infinite climax? At that level dodging require you complement it with the Moon accessory which essentially adds a block/counter mechanic to the game that is actually harder to pull off than NGB's defensive moves. The enemies are also ridiculously more agressive and do way more damage. At first, each fight will feel like a struggle to win.
 

ultim8p00

Banned
FlashbladeGAF said:

That's just BS and nonsense. The article is just trying to be deep when there really is nothing to be deep about. "OMG Bayonetta is a testament to Women's rights she's so out there in the men's faces and displeasing them blah blah blah." Have you watched some japanese anime? It's the same shit. Stupid unnecessary panty shots. Stupid ass shots. Stupid vagina shots. Same vulgar shit. There's nothing deep about Bayonetta. There's nothing deep about the story in Bayonetta.


Alyx Vance is a deep character.
 

XenoRaven

Member
ultim8p00 said:
That's just BS and nonsense. The article is just trying to be deep when there really is nothing to be deep about. "OMG Bayonetta is a testament to Women's rights she's so out there in the men's faces and displeasing them blah blah blah." Have you watched some japanese anime? It's the same shit. Stupid unnecessary panty shots. Stupid ass shots. Stupid vagina shots. Same vulgar shit. There's nothing deep about Bayonetta. There's nothing deep about the story in Bayonetta.


Alyx Vance is a deep character.
Uhh...

Is there some side story to Half-Life 2 that I don't know about or something? A character can be interesting and likable without being deep. Alyx is interesting and likable. Not really deep.

The Boss is a deep character.

As for the question of Bayonetta's sexuality, I'm torn. I'm pretty sure this discussion has already happened plenty in this thread. Either way, I'm not sure the portrayal of Bayonetta's sexuality has any meaning behind it, but I'm not convinced it's purely indulgent either. There is something different to me about Bayonetta than say...Kasumi from DOA. It's a part of her personality and what makes her who she is. One point I agree with in the article is that I don't think we should immediately cry "objectification" just because a woman is portrayed in a sexual way. Perverts implementing boob physics on scantily clad female game characters for self-gratification or to help the game's sales shouldn't ruin the aspects of female sexuality and attempts at their portrayal in games. I'm not sure which side Bayonetta falls on, but I don't think it's as easy to pick a side as some people believe.
 
ultim8p00 said:
That's just BS and nonsense. The article is just trying to be deep when there really is nothing to be deep about. "OMG Bayonetta is a testament to Women's rights she's so out there in the men's faces and displeasing them blah blah blah." Have you watched some japanese anime? It's the same shit. Stupid unnecessary panty shots. Stupid ass shots. Stupid vagina shots. Same vulgar shit. There's nothing deep about Bayonetta. There's nothing deep about the story in Bayonetta.


Alyx Vance is a deep character.

lol...Vulgar. I'm glad I don't think like you. Bayonetta is such a fun character. Alyx Vance is great, but there is enough space for everybody. I really don't see what the big deal is here.

Over the top game is over the top. OMG surprise.
 
There is a scantily clad witch who pole dances and undresses to perform demonic strikes. I'm baffled that there are complaints about this, let alone a dorkwad article trying to add a deeper purpose to the most righteous almost-nuditude. WTF is going on?

Also, the idea that scantily clad men and women, with jiggly boobs or flexy pecs and such is somehow perverted seems, well, perverted to me.
 

ultim8p00

Banned
XenoRaven said:
Uhh...

Is there some side story to Half-Life 2 that I don't know about or something? A character can be interesting and likable without being deep. Alyx is interesting and likable. Not really deep.

The Boss is a deep character.

As for the question of Bayonetta's sexuality, I'm torn. I'm pretty sure this discussion has already happened plenty in this thread. Either way, I'm not sure the portrayal of Bayonetta's sexuality has any meaning behind it, but I'm not convinced it's purely indulgent either. There is something different to me about Bayonetta than say...Kasumi from DOA. It's a part of her personality and what makes her who she is. One point I agree with in the article is that I don't think we should immediately cry "objectification" just because a woman is portrayed in a sexual way. Perverts implementing boob physics on scantily clad female game characters for self-gratification or to help the game's sales shouldn't ruin the aspects of female sexuality and attempts at their portrayal in games. I'm not sure which side Bayonetta falls on, but I don't think it's as easy to pick a side as some people believe.

Mind you, I don't actually think Bayonetta is being objectified. I don't have a problem with Bayonetta being cool and sexy as she is, I just have a problem with the unnecessary ass shots, crotch shots etc. Like why? Why do I need that? I can see her. I can see the way she moves in the game and how she twist her hips; I already know she's sexy. When I play Gears of War or Uncharted or whatever, the guys in there are badasses and they are well built. I don't need the camera constantly zooming into their chests and muscles, to know that they are powerful. I can tell they are powerful because of what they do and the way they do things.

Take Duke Nukem for example. He's a fucking badass because of what he's doing. Can you imagine how LAME Duke Nukem would be if he was constantly telling you "I'm such a badass. Look at my muscles. Look at how I'm shooting this gun with one hand. I'm so cool. I had sex with this babe. My dick is like 10 inches dude" and the camera kept zooming in on his abs and chest? That shit would be so annoying.
 
ultim8p00 said:
Mind you, I don't actually think Bayonetta is being objectified. I don't have a problem with Bayonetta being cool and sexy as she is, I just have a problem with the unnecessary ass shots, crotch shots etc. Like why? Why do I need that?

It's part of the show, the presentation. Labeling it unnecessary seems... weird. You may not like the show, but that's what it is. Everything is over the top and exaggerated, and that includes the ass shots and whatnot.
 

Mrbob

Member
Bayonetta is self aware she is a sex symbol so she flaunts it. I think this is actually a pretty creative twist from the norm we see in gaming.
 
ultim8p00 said:
Take Duke Nukem for example. He's a fucking badass because of what he's doing. Can you imagine how LAME Duke Nukem would be if he was constantly telling you "I'm such a badass. Look at my muscles. Look at how I'm shooting this gun with one hand. I'm so cool. I had sex with this babe. My dick is like 10 inches dude" and the camera kept zooming in on his abs and chest? That shit would be so annoying.


Your comparing the wrong thing. Compare their personalities and how extreme they are.

Bayonetta is sexy as Duke Nukem is crude.

Both are over the top, totally unrealistic and they both do whatever they want, when they want to, and arent afraid to be themselves in any situation.

But, where your able to think of Duke Nukem as a badass because of how vulgar he is, your unable to see Bayonetta for her charm. Maybe you dont like those types of women, or maybe you feel a woman should not behave that way. But I think its unfair to call Bayonetta's personality awful trash, when you like the over the top personality of the opposite sex.

Step back and try to see it the same way you see Duke Nukem (unapologetic fun)
 

Aske

Member
ultim8p00 said:
Take Duke Nukem for example. He's a fucking badass because of what he's doing. Can you imagine how LAME Duke Nukem would be if he was constantly telling you "I'm such a badass. Look at my muscles. Look at how I'm shooting this gun with one hand. I'm so cool. I had sex with this babe. My dick is like 10 inches dude" and the camera kept zooming in on his abs and chest? That shit would be so annoying.

Bayonetta's sense of humour is often firmly entrenched in blatant self-parody, and almost all of it is satirical. If Duke Nukem had the same sense of humour, of course the camera would zoom in on his biceps, pecs and quads as he performed various manly feats of hairy-chested bravado. And, just like Bayonetta, it would be hilarious.
 

ultim8p00

Banned
FlashbladeGAF said:
Your comparing the wrong thing. Compare their personalities and how extreme they are.

Bayonetta is sexy as Duke Nukem is crude.

Both are over the top, totally unrealistic and they both do whatever they want, when they want to, and arent afraid to be themselves in any situation.

But, where your able to think of Duke Nukem as a badass because of how vulgar he is, your unable to see Bayonetta for her charm. Maybe you dont like those types of women, or maybe you feel a woman should not behave that way. But I think its unfair to call Bayonetta's personality awful trash, when you like the over the top personality of the opposite sex.

Step back and try to see it the same way you see Duke Nukem (unapologetic fun),


I guess this kinda makes sense. I've just come to the conclusion that it's just not my thing. I can take the stuff in some anime games, maybe because I have come to identify them like that, but I cannot stand the stuff in Bayonetta. I want to think all the ass/crotch shots are satire, but it just doesn't seem like it. It just feels like the standard anime treatment, except that this isn't anime.
 

Mrbob

Member
Granted, I don't watch a lot of anime (haven't in years), but from what I remember most hot chicks in anime try to act cute and innocent. I would compare an anime style woman to someone like Rachel in NG. A woman who tries to act like an angel, but flaunts a huge massive rack in tight leather outfit.

Bayonetta acts like a sex symbol at times, but she can be crude and rude too. She doesn't play the innocent act.
 

LiK

Member
Mrbob said:
Granted, I don't watch a lot of anime (haven't in years), but from what I remember most hot chicks in anime try to act cute and innocent. I would compare an anime style woman to someone like Rachel in NG. A woman who tries to act like an angel, but flaunts a huge massive rack in tight leather outfit.

Bayonetta acts like a sex symbol at times, but she can be crude and rude too. She doesn't play the innocent act.
Played the MGS series? Best anime in game form ;D
 
ultim8p00 said:
I guess this kinda makes sense. I've just come to the conclusion that it's just not my thing. I can take the stuff in some anime games, maybe because I have come to identify them like that, but I cannot stand the stuff in Bayonetta. I want to think all the ass/crotch shots are satire, but it just doesn't seem like it. It just feels like the standard anime treatment, except that this isn't anime.

I'd say that you're over-thinking it, but that's what this forum is for. As a dude, I don't particularly feel the need to analyze why there are crotch shots, or jiggly boobs. And it does irk me a bit when even exaggerated sexuality or raunchiness is described as being "perverse." Seems like it is better to save that for the genuinely troubling shit, like simmering pedo or rape undercurrents, but then both of those terms are commonplace humorous words to use on the god damned interwebs these days.
 
Mrbob said:
Granted, I don't watch a lot of anime (haven't in years), but from what I remember most hot chicks in anime try to act cute and innocent. I would compare an anime style woman to someone like Rachel in NG. A woman who tries to act like an angel, but flaunts a huge massive rack in tight leather outfit.

Bayonetta acts like a sex symbol at times, but she can be crude and rude too. She doesn't play the innocent act.

10230_161137581201_614166201_3498101_6510903_n.jpg
 
ultim8p00 said:
I want to think all the ass/crotch shots are satire, but it just doesn't seem like it. It just feels like the standard anime treatment, except that this isn't anime.



It isn't. Its all good fun.

But why the anime comparison. Fan service has been in games for awhile now, yet when a game like Dante's Inferno, GTA or God of War has full on nudity, its artistic and fitting for the type of game it is but when a game is both camp and fun and has some suggestive situations(that are done just as purposefully), it becomes that anime like crap.
 

Zeliard

Member
ultim8p00 said:
That's just BS and nonsense. The article is just trying to be deep when there really is nothing to be deep about. "OMG Bayonetta is a testament to Women's rights she's so out there in the men's faces and displeasing them blah blah blah." Have you watched some japanese anime? It's the same shit. Stupid unnecessary panty shots. Stupid ass shots. Stupid vagina shots. Same vulgar shit. There's nothing deep about Bayonetta. There's nothing deep about the story in Bayonetta.

Brilliant analysis and retort. You made some extremely good points here.
 

Korey

Member
FlashbladeGAF said:
It isn't. Its all good fun.

But why the anime comparison. Fan service has been in games for awhile now, yet when a game like Dante's Inferno, GTA or God of War has full on nudity, its artistic and fitting for the type of game it is but when a game is both camp and fun and has some suggestive situations(that are done just as purposefully), it becomes that anime like crap.
I don't understand why people don't get this. It should be painfully obvious through all the fourth wall breaking references to viewtiful joe, okami, resident evil, madworld, sonic, halo, devil may cry, classic sega games, etc. It's all in fun and tongue in cheek. No More Heroes is another game that does this.
 
Speaking of the purposefully bad writing.

Did anybody else laugh when
Father Balder chuckled at his own bad pun? "It looks like my plan has gone right out the window. teehee"
 

XenoRaven

Member
Fimbulvetr said:
Speaking of the purposefully bad writing.

Did anybody else laugh when
Father Balder chuckled at his own bad pun? "It looks like my plan has gone right out the window. teehee"
I laughed in a "What the hell am I watching?" kind of way. This happened a lot of times playing this game.
 
Fimbulvetr said:
Speaking of the purposefully bad writing.

Did anybody else laugh when
Father Balder chuckled at his own bad pun? "It looks like my plan has gone right out the window. teehee"
I did, but I was mostly laughing that entire scene because I was just imagining him as David Bowie.
 

Darkman M

Member
AltogetherAndrews said:
There is a scantily clad witch who pole dances and undresses to perform demonic strikes. I'm baffled that there are complaints about this, let alone a dorkwad article trying to add a deeper purpose to the most righteous almost-nuditude. WTF is going on?

Also, the idea that scantily clad men and women, with jiggly boobs or flexy pecs and such is somehow perverted seems, well, perverted to me.

Agree with all of this, it's a Mature rated video game doesn't compare to anything you'll see in a PG13 movie. Why are some of you people so anal about sexuality and nudity? I find this ridiculous people can be ok with someone getting shot in the face but cringes at the sight of partially nude woman.:lol
 

Aske

Member
Fimbulvetr said:
Speaking of the purposefully bad writing.

Did anybody else laugh when
Father Balder chuckled at his own bad pun? "It looks like my plan has gone right out the window. teehee"

I did, but more due to the absurdity of the idea in question being worthy of the title 'plan':
"My plan to have four angels tear that journalist's limbs off - just as I had four angels tear his father's limbs off - has gone right out the window. Tee hee."

The comment was one of Balder's high points. The other was, of course, his dead peacock. I hope that thing is a weapon in the next game.
 

XenoRaven

Member
Darkman M said:
Agree with all of this, it's a Mature rated video game doesn't compare to anything you'll see in a PG13 movie. Why are some of you people so anal about sexuality and nudity? I find this ridiculous people can be ok with someone getting shot in the face but cringes at the sight of partially nude woman.:lol
I think some people are almost programmed to think that way after all of the blatant objectivism that happens in games. I think others feel like they're supposed to be offended.

That's not to say everyone that doesn't like Bayonetta falls under those two categories. But I'm willing to bet there are a lot that do.
 

Risette

A Good Citizen
I'm probably not the first/only to say this, but Bayonetta (the character) seems like a parody
or is it satire? not sure
of the way some anime/games portray females. All the game references and general lack of seriousness that make me think this.

She manages to fight in high heels and an outfit that seems like tight leather but it's her magical hair that she also uses during combat, so she gets less clothed as she fights. She's also tall, has a big butt and boobs, and wears glasses.

Maybe I'm wrong and just reaching, but whatever Bayonetta's character was meant to be is definitely not a serious one.
 

Aske

Member
Just beat the Alfheim and got the crow. I got home and planned on an extended session, and managed to triumph on the first try. With four seconds left on the clock. Sweet relief.
 

TP

Member
There's still a chance to score a free Bayonetta t-shirt from Penny Arcade

The awesome shirts have been ordered, and I want to make sure that as many people get them as possible!
Here are the details yet again:
- Open Only To Those In The Continental US
- Defeat Bayonetta On Hard, Earning The "Umbra Elder" Achievement/Trophy
- Entries Must be Sent To bayonettacontest@gmail.com
- Entry Must Include Your Gamertag/PSN ID, Photo Of Final Credits, And A Current Address
- First Five Hundred Valid Entries Will Win A Rad Shirt
- The Shirt Is Size Large
(CW)TB



Most of you should have beat hard by now so send in those pics!

http://www.penny-arcade.com/

34is07k.jpg
 

PARANO1A

Member
Hrmm, what difficultly are people playing on their first play-through? I ended up going "easy" after doing the first four chapters on Normal. I just kept dying and thought maybe it was not designed for a normal run at first without people needing a masochistic streak :/
 

Mrbob

Member
I'm doing a normal run right now first and foremost, but i wouldn't feel bad about playing on easy if normal is giving you a rough time. Better to get the mechanics of the game down and have fun than having the game be an exercise in frustration.
 
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