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[twenty1]

It also helped that a Clover/Platinum game of worth was advertised properly as well. Loads of TV ads with the La Roux track had the correct effect. What a surprise!

Agreed!!

 

[British Monsoon]

the thing is you really can't say that say you've learned the combat untill you master dodging, it's the very core of the system. visually the game gets little bit too busy at times but it's hardly unfair/cheap if ever. try to concentrate on the audio/visual clues the game gives you before the enemies attack. once you nail down dodging properly you will be able to see your way through any situation with ease & style. alafheims are great places to study enemy attack patterns.

I think that right there is my biggest problem, there's always a ton of stuff going on, either in terms of the number of enemies on screen or the sheer scale of the enemy your faced with, it's very difficult to notice those little clues as to when you should dodge.

 

[SecretBonusPoint]

Theres a great big obvious sharp ringing sound the game tells you when to prepare for one. And purchasing the move Bat Within later on in the game even further extends your dodge timing window.

Really dodging should have become like second nature not far into the game. They couldn't have telegraphed enemy attacks any more than they did.

 

[Canova]

Just bought this on the cheap on the PS3 and i'm really enjoying the graphics, the art design, the characters and the atmosphere of the game, but the combat? Not so much. First let me preface this by saying I suck at 3rd person action games, I completed Ninja Gaiden: Black after a lot of swearing and broken controllers, but every other example of the genre has left me wanting. Bayonetta seems little different in that respect - while Ninja Gaiden compelled me to see it through to completion, it was largely thanks to the fantastic combat engine. Once mastered I always felt like it was possible to see my way through any situation, but if I failed I intrinsically knew it to be my fault alone and not the fault of the engine, the camera or any cheap sections of gameplay. In Bayonetta I feel like i've come to grips with the combat, but no matter the effort I put in I just can't master the dodging. There's always too much going on screen at once and the game seems so damn unforgiving with health drops in short supply and enemies doing large amounts of damage with every attack I fail to dodge, it's making progress incredibly hard for me. I'm hoping I can get by without too much frustration, but unless the combat suddenly clicks with me I can't see myself completing the game in the face of such stiff opposition. So yeah, fantastic premise and execution, but clearly this is a game geared entirely towards the elitist end of the 3rd person action scale.

Don't try to compare any action game to NG. Doing that will leave you disappointed.

NG combat system is without equal. Some may imitate DMC combat system, some may imitate GOW, but no one can imitate NG. NG is as close to real sword-combat as an action game can get.

If you're an action game fan, be open minded to a relatively new system, which what Bayonetta offers. Once you're able to pull off perfect-timed dodge, the game gets more fun.

The combo, though glorious, actually is not the theme of the game, it's just one aspect of it. Perfectly-timed dodge is the theme of the game, and you'll see that throughout.

 

[Llyranor]

I think the trick to not getting hit when you're not used to perfectly-timed dodges is to dodge more than you think you need to.

I absolutely love the NG/2 combat mechanics (how is this similar to real sword combat at all???), but I actually prefer Bayonetta's (though they are dissimilar, yes). Dodge Offset is just so awesome.

The combo, though glorious, actually is not the theme of the game, it's just one aspect of it. Perfectly-timed dodge is the theme of the game, and you'll see that throughout.

Those two go together hand-in-hand, though. With dodge offset, your offensive and defensive play is all intermeshed into a single mix where you're doing both at the same time without compromising efficiency of either.

 

[HunkyDory]

It doesn't have a bizarre ART style.

I know you meant something else

I don't know, the recurring cherub motif was pretty damn bizarre.

I can see where you are coming from with your dodging complaints Boootay; it can be especially frustrating in smaller areas where the camera has a tendency to go all wonky on you.

Like most things though, practice makes perfect. It does get easier to make sense of what's going on and to anticipate attacks as you plug more time into the game and come to know the enemies' animations better.

Of course, if you're finding it too frustrating then you might not have any interest to persevere with it, but it's worth it if you're inclined to stick at it.

There are some awful QTE in there though. Even playing through it again, I still dislike how they are used.

 

[Canova]

I think the trick to not getting hit when you're not used to perfectly-timed dodges is to dodge more than you think you need to.

I absolutely love the NG/2 combat mechanics (how is this similar to real sword combat at all???), but I actually prefer Bayonetta's (though they are dissimilar, yes). Dodge Offset is just so awesome.

Those two go together hand-in-hand, though. With dodge offset, your offensive and defensive play is all intermeshed into a single mix where you're doing both at the same time without compromising efficiency of either.

ok I need to be more specific, as close to real sword combat as a good action game can get.

Dodge offset is still at the very core is just perfectly-timed dodge, you have to master dodging before you can pull off this technique.

 

[Scythesurge]

I don't know, the recurring cherub motif was pretty damn bizarre.

I can see where you are coming from with your dodging complaints Boootay; it can be especially frustrating in smaller areas where the camera has a tendency to go all wonky on you.

Like most things though, practice makes perfect. It does get easier to make sense of what's going on and to anticipate attacks as you plug more time into the game and come to know the enemies' animations better.

Of course, if you're finding it too frustrating then you might not have any interest to persevere with it, but it's worth it if you're inclined to stick at it.

There are some awful QTE in there though. Even playing through it again, I still dislike how they are used.

The qte's are awful, but there are so few that they are easy to ignore. Nice avatar, btw.

 

[RoryDropkick]

it's not a story fight, it's an optional bonus mission, of sorts. it isn't really a spoiler, so don't get too upset.

Oh ok, that's cool then. Although for the record I wouldn't have exploded and cried and gotten angry if it actually was a spoiler :lol

 

[British Monsoon]

Ugh, I think i'm getting the hang of blocking now, but it's still very hit and miss - I still struggle to see or hear the visual and auditory clues that tell of an impending attack, or I find myself dodging too early to gain Witch Time. After failing a dozen or so times to beat

Spoiler

Fortitudo

in level 4, I finally managed it fairly easily and thought I was finally getting to grips with the game, then level 5 starts and I get my ass handed to me by

Spoiler

Grace & Glory

:/ I eventually beat them the first time (after realising there's a really quick chance for a QTE after the initial cutscene), but facing them again later in the level didn't go quite as well. Any tips? I find it difficult to keep both on the screen at the same time and if I concentrate too much on one of them i'm bound to get hit from behind. Also, the move where they knock you into the air and mid-air combo you fucking sucks and ruins your health.

 

[radiantdreamer]

the thing is you really can't say that say you've learned the combat untill you master dodging, it's the very core of the system. visually the game gets little bit too busy at times but it's hardly unfair/cheap if ever. try to concentrate on the audio/visual clues the game gives you before the enemies attack. once you nail down dodging properly you will be able to see your way through any situation with ease & style. alafheims are great places to study enemy attack patterns.

I was having difficulty with this game until I learned to dodge more. The visual and audio cues are definitely there. You just have to pay attention. In addition, usually only one enemy attacks at a time, unless they're enraged. Also, projectile throwing enemies will not throw projectiles at you if they are off camera.

Grace and Glory still give me pain though. But they are definitely fun and intense to fight!

On another note - Bullet Witch could have been this good. So much potential, lost to generic gameplay, lousy design, and terrible AI...

 

[Fimbulvetr]

Ugh, I think i'm getting the hang of blocking now, but it's still very hit and miss - I still struggle to see or hear the visual and auditory clues that tell of an impending attack, or I find myself dodging too early to gain Witch Time. After failing a dozen or so times to beat

Spoiler

Fortitudo

in level 4, I finally managed it fairly easily and thought I was finally getting to grips with the game, then level 5 starts and I get my ass handed to me by

Spoiler

Grace & Glory

:/ I eventually beat them the first time (after realising there's a really quick chance for a QTE after the initial cutscene), but facing them again later in the level didn't go quite as well. Any tips? I find it difficult to keep both on the screen at the same time and if I concentrate too much on one of them i'm bound to get hit from behind. Also, the move where they knock you into the air and mid-air combo you fucking sucks and ruins your health.

Kill the red one first, make sure to use a torture attack so he drops his weapon when he dies.

Then use his weapon's secondary attack to kill the blue one(it's a very close ranged attack btw).

The secondary attack is used by pressing B(360 version)/square(PS3 version).

 

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

Grace and Glory are actually pretty slow. They move around quickly, but their attacks are clearly telegraphed and give you a lot of time to dodge them. Don't be intimidated by them.

 

[goldenpp72]

yeah, grace and glory move fast but you learn later that they still attack with a slow pattern.

The best way to learn the enemies is in the lost chapter, i'd say I have every enemy memorized by now.

 

[Beezy]

How do you get the lost chapter?

 

[Alx]

How do you get the lost chapter?

Finish all Alfheims.

 

[joesmokey]

So I think the main things I didn't like about this game are some of the QTEs and only a couple of the chapters. Doing the QTEs for the torture attacks and climaxes was fine, but when they were going through a cinematic or explaining the story and all of a sudden wanted you to pick up the controller and do something, it got pretty annoying.

I also hated the motorbike highway chapter. So many times I fell in between/through the highways because I couldn't see where I was supposed to go, but at least these sections were easily replayable. I also hated the chapter where you were flying to the island. My fingers hurt from spamming so much and I got tired of all the rotation from the evade move.

Needless to say though I actually want to go through and play the chapters where I didn't receive a high award for, and I don't remember the last game where I've wanted to do this.

 

[HYDE]

The best game of January 2009!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now, back to unlocking the gunchucks nunchuck fuck!

 

[SapientWolf]

The best game of January 2009!!!!!!!!!!!!

Game design wasn't challenging enough. Platinum Games have also mastered time travel.

 

[ConcealedBlaze]

With a month behind us, I can safely say that Bayonetta ranks up there with Bioshock, Portal, and Half-life 2: Ep 2 as one of the few classics this generation.

Really stays with you.

 

[HYDE]

Game design wasn't challenging enough. Platinum Games have also mastered time travel.

:lol I was like what the hell is Sapient talking about, finally got it 2010.

 

[Augemitbutter]

The best game of Oct/Nov. 2009!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now, back to unlocking the gunchucks nunchuck fuck!

fixed.

 

[LiK]

finally installed the patch for the PS3 ver. and installed the game. colors are still drab compared to the 360 ver and framerate issues still persist. textures don't look improved either. but the loading has been definitely fixed. no more shitty loading msgs during item pick-ups and chapters load just as quickly as the 360 most of the time. and no more lag for the weapon/item menu. much better now.

 

[Dreavus]

Infinite Climax is kicking my ass. I had to try the x3 ardor fight in chapter 3 several times before getting past it, and I'm now essentially stuck in chapter 5. By the time I get to the first 3 Joys (after "falling" across the canyon) I usually have very little health and get killed shortly after. I could just used some items or eat the death, but I want to try and get through on one life if possible.

On a related note does anyone have any general strategies for Fearless and Fairness? These guys give me so much trouble, especially on ∞ Climax mode. They are very difficult to combo because they seem to always parry your 2nd or 3rd hit if they still have their armor on, and their lunge seems to be a fraction of a second too fast for me to properly react to. Their parries wreck combo chains too, meaning I can't even dodge offset my way up to a wicked weave (unless it's PKP from range or something like that). Without witch time when exactly am I supposed to attack them? :lol

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

Finally finished Infinite Climax mode. This game is amazing. After playing this, I do not particularly care to play any other action games for a while. To anyone having trouble with Infinite Climax mode, the Moon of Mahaa-Kalaa and Evil Harvest Rosary helped me out tremendously. Try to counter by holding towards the enemies before they attack with the Moon of Mahaa-Kalaa equipment for a counter and an opening for an attack. You can even spam it on most enemies. With the Evil Harvest Rosary, you have no witch time, but you will leave a little surprise behind when you dodge at the correct moment.

 

[Tricky I Shadow]

Man....

Spoiler

Father Rodin

is soooo brutally hard (and that's coming from someone who thought both Hard mode and Infinite Climax mode were both pretty easy).

I've got a question, does

Spoiler

Father Rodin

have a leader board? Because if he does I won't be using the Climax Bracelet, but if he doesn't then I will be using it.

 

[Monocle]

Don't try to compare any action game to Devil May Cry 3. Doing that will leave you disappointed. [snip]

Fixed.

 

[JEKKI]

I finally beat it on xbox today. Got all platinums for the stages and unlocked Jeanne, but I do not have all platinum verses.

wanna go back and perfect it but uggggghhh I am so burnt out on this game now!!!

anyway, if I would jus go back and beat the extra difficulties I would have a 1000 achievement score!!

but nahhh... gotta take a break!!

 

[Dreavus]

I was playing Okami a little bit today for the first time in a while, and I noticed that the "Infinity Judge" (The blue disc weapon) behaves an awfully lot like those hourglasses you can find in Bayonetta. They both spin and "come apart" and go back together in the exact same way. Perhaps it's another reference?

 

[viewtiful_dru]

Got back to this finally today (after being distracted by No More Heroes 2 and TvC).

Finished my Platinum chapter run on normal.

Got Jeanne, but damn did I make a mistake choosing her on Hard, I still don't have her bat within type timing down, and they were throwing Joys at me first thing. Madness.

 

[Hawkian]

edit: hadn't refreshed

Honestly, I was digging the challenge of Normal mode- then I played a day long session of Demon's Souls. Now this game feels like easy mode :lol

Can't wait to unlock the higher difficulties and extras

 

[Tricky I Shadow]

Man....

Spoiler

Father Rodin

is soooo brutally hard (and that's coming from someone who thought both Hard mode and Infinite Climax mode were both pretty easy).

I've got a question, does

Spoiler

Father Rodin

have a leader board? Because if he does I won't be using the Climax Bracelet, but if he doesn't then I will be using it.

I really wished someone would have answered my question earlier. After like 4 hours and a sore thumb I finally defeated

Spoiler

Father Rodin

without the Climax Bracelet.

I was pretty damn disappointed to see that it has no leader board....so I have nothing to show for all my hard work and should have just used the Climax Bracelet!

 

[zoukka]

Finished this finally. Overall Bayonetta is a game of extreme contrasts. The fighting is good, fluid and relatively varied. However the story is a real drag with long cut-scenes that often do absolutely nothing informative. The main guy is 10x more annoying than Dante in DMC3 and that's a fucking lot. Bayonetta looks great, but in the end falls to the cliched hero cathegory. How could you Kamiya... the cut-scene where you see Balder for the first time is one of the worst I've seen in my life.

Some of the bosses were great and most of them were giant punching bags with glowing weakspots. Jeanne encounters were straight rips from DMC series. End boss phase 1 was great and phase 2 was your usual giant punching bag... what a surprise. At least the end QTE was entertaining.


A good DMC clone. Nothing more.

 

[Monocle]

Finished this finally. Overall Bayonetta is a game of extreme contrasts. The fighting is good, fluid and relatively varied. However the story is a real drag with long cut-scenes that often do absolutely nothing informative. The main guy is 10x more annoying than Dante in DMC3 and that's a fucking lot. Bayonetta looks great, but in the end falls to the cliched hero cathegory. How could you Kamiya... the cut-scene where you see Balder for the first time is one of the worst I've seen in my life.

Some of the bosses were great and most of them were giant punching bags with glowing weakspots. Jeanne encounters were straight rips from DMC series. End boss phase 1 was great and phase 2 was your usual giant punching bag... what a surprise. At least the end QTE was entertaining.


A good DMC clone. Nothing more.

Barring its gameplay, everything in Bayonetta is there to be experienced, not necessarily understood. If you were expecting "informative" cutscenes, you have the wrong title.

Bayonetta invites us to play in a world like few others (No More Heroes and God Hand being the closest analogues), where hyper-stylized characters revel in the absurdity of their own existence, with caricatures of and tributes to countless games—Sega's colorful catalog in particular—forming the backdrop. Bayonetta is a pastiche but also a formal critique, and its subject is the action genre as a whole. Concealed as it is in an enamel of eccentric excess, the nourishing core can be easy to miss. It's there, though, evident in the little touches that place Kamiya games a cut above the rest: the enemy files, the combo guide, the exhaustive text descriptions, the motifs and subtle nods incorporated into the environmental and enemy art.

Bayonetta's combat system, though based on the skeletal frame of DMC's genre-defining design, proves to be remarkably original upon closer inspection. Attack charging, dodge offset, Witch Time, an aerial move list as robust as the grounded one, and fluid animal transformations are just a fraction of its numerous innovations.

I'd say Bayonetta brings far too much fresh fare to the table to be dismissed as "a good DMC clone."

 

[D2M15]

Got Jeanne, but damn did I make a mistake choosing her on Hard, I still don't have her bat within type timing down, and they were throwing Joys at me first thing. Madness.

Yeah, I dialed back down to Normal and it's still exhausting, but if things get to me I just let her default taunt rip and EVERYTHING IN THE WORLD IS OK. God, I love posh bird swearing.

She desperately needs her own spin-off. Jeannetta?

 

[Sub_Level]

That n472a guy/gal just posted a new combo video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6brRsC9NX4&feature=sub

Short but sweet.

 

[zoukka]

Monocle: what the hell?

You might've loved the SEGA/Clover references, but it didn't hide the fact that many aspects in this game were totally half assed. Motorcycle and missile gameplay was a chore and lasted way too long. Boss recycling went really overboard too.

I loved the shittiness of the original NMH, because that was a title that really felt like it "meant" all of it. Bayonetta just is a wrong game to implement crappy shit just to please a few fetishists. From the accurate skill based core gameplay you are transported to clunky vehicle sections, trial/error QTE's and overly long story exposition. And I did not expect anything good from the story... are you silly?

But I didn't expect jargon as strong as this that's for sure.

 

[NonexistentK]

That n472a guy/gal just posted a new combo video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6brRsC9NX4&feature=sub

so this is just a dmc3 clone and nothing more...:lol .

 

[TheThunder]

Just wanted to come real quick and say FUCK the guy who designed the QTE in this game and FUCK the guy who designed those battle ships with the rockets, most broken crap in the game.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

Just wanted to come real quick and say FUCK the guy who designed the QTE in this game and FUCK the guy who designed those battle ships with the rockets, most broken crap in the game.

Kinships are easy to fight, they're pretty much pussies once you get on top of them(save for that one claw attack).

 

[CadetMahoney]

so this is just a dmc3 clone and nothing more...:lol .

Personally I can see myself playing Bayonetta more than something more simple and cinematic such as god of war, I don't replay games for story and cinematics.

 

[Fugu]

Just wanted to come real quick and say FUCK the guy who designed the QTE in this game and FUCK the guy who designed those battle ships with the rockets, most broken crap in the game.

Really?
Everything they do is hugely telegraphed. Just pan the camera so you can see all of them.

 

[Canova]

yup

FUCK QTE in action game

Srsly, Kamiya better get his ass in this thread and see how fucking hated QTE is

QTE and Bike & Missile riding have to be fucking gone in the sequel

 

[Alx]

Honestly, how many (potentially) annoying QTEs were there in the game ? 3 or 4...
As for the bike/rocket levels, I think they're ok for diversity, but they should be completely separate chapters. So that if you want to play the fighting sequences before or after them, you don't have to play them if you don't want to. (I find it annoying that one of the best fights in the game is just after the rocket part...)

 

[Chamber]

Grace and Glory are actually pretty slow. They move around quickly, but their attacks are clearly telegraphed and give you a lot of time to dodge them. Don't be intimidated by them.

Yeah, Grace and Glory are nothing. Now, Gracious and Glorious? Fuck those mother fuckers.

Honestly, how many (potentially) annoying QTEs were there in the game ? 3 or 4...

All of them.

 

[Alx]

But that's all of them... by "potentially annoying" QTEs, I meant those that cause immediate death if you fail them. And from the top of my memory I can only remember

Spoiler

- the finish move against the dragons - I must have failed it once or two
- the "jump now !" action from the falling clock tower - easy
- the "jump now !" action from the falling bridge in the burning level - another easy one
- the "jump now !" action in the motorcycle level - maybe the most annoying

All the others are more "push this button as fast as you can", or optional QTEs during a fight, that give you an advantage but only make you lose time (and maybe health) if you fail them.

Sure it would still be better without the few bad examples, but they're small details lost in the game.

 

[Darkmakaimura]

But that's all of them... by "potentially annoying" QTEs, I meant those that cause immediate death if you fail them. And from the top of my memory I can only remember

Spoiler

- the finish move against the dragons - I must have failed it once or two
- the "jump now !" action from the falling clock tower - easy
- the "jump now !" action from the falling bridge in the burning level - another easy one
- the "jump now !" action in the motorcycle level - maybe the most annoying

All the others are more "push this button as fast as you can", or optional QTEs during a fight, that give you an advantage but only make you lose time (and maybe health) if you fail them.

Sure it would still be better without the few bad examples, but they're small details lost in the game.

Spoiler

The finishing movie against the dragons when you're in the "flying room" was probably the most annoying. It took me about a half dozen tries to get it. The others came fairly easy for me. In fact, the jump QTE in the motorcycle level I got the first time.

 

[radiantdreamer]

I'd say Bayonetta brings far too much fresh fare to the table to be dismissed as "a good DMC clone."

I agree with this statement. Well written opinion.

Monocle: what the hell?

You might've loved the SEGA/Clover references, but it didn't hide the fact that many aspects in this game were totally half assed. Motorcycle and missile gameplay was a chore and lasted way too long. Boss recycling went really overboard too.

I loved the shittiness of the original NMH, because that was a title that really felt like it "meant" all of it. Bayonetta just is a wrong game to implement crappy shit just to please a few fetishists. From the accurate skill based core gameplay you are transported to clunky vehicle sections, trial/error QTE's and overly long story exposition. And I did not expect anything good from the story... are you silly?

But I didn't expect jargon as strong as this that's for sure.

You're entitled to your own opinion, just like Monocle is entitled to his. But most of the time, Zoukka, you seem to act like a prick/troll. Why all the hate? Neogaf isn't like that anymore.

 

[palpabl_purpura]

Really?
Everything they do is hugely telegraphed. Just pan the camera so you can see all of them.

Try fighting 3 kinships on NIC, and see if you change your tone.

 

[LowParry]

You're entitled to your own opinion, just like Monocle is entitled to his. But most of the time, Zoukka, you seem to act like a prick/troll. Why all the hate? Neogaf isn't like that anymore.

Because most times he's usually right. And I agree with everything he posted about this game. I still don't get the hype. Other than the combat, the rest is shit.