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danmaku said:
Players usually instigate the QTEs in GoW - that's the big difference. I don't love the simon-says boss battle QTEs in those games , but things like the fleece parry QTE with the gorgons' stare was genuinely awesome. Even the cyclops eye-gouge bits worked fairly well. And they're always a reasonable gamble: failure isn't punished that hard. Screwing a QTE midway through combat isn't far away from fluffing an elaborate combo and taking your lumps. And there are no QTEs outside of combat. The cut scenes are QTE free.
Bayonetta's worst QTEs - those in the cut scenes - aren't player instigated, and they're almost always lethal. This isn't usually a big deal after the first run, but it kills the flow of the action sequence when you're not expecting it, and adds nothing positive in terms of player interactivity when you get it right. The boss fight mashing is fine most of the time, but my hands really had to be warmed up to nail the Jeanne 500 Gigaton x2 QTEs on Hard and above. Some have no problems here, but it's obviously designed to be a good deal more challenging, and speed-mashing is not a gaming skill I personally care to cultivate.
It's a minor flaw in an otherwise outstanding game, but I won't let my love for everything else in Bayonetta gloss over that one major criticism. I hate winning a battle or verse, sitting back to enjoy the fireworks as we transition to the next area, and then seeing everything go to hell when my superpowered ninja-witch screwed a simple jump/shot/dodge; all because I failed to hit X the one time the game decided she couldn't do it without me.
As far as I can remember there are only 5 one hit kill QTEs and I can't image how people can fall into them again after one playthrough.zoukka said:
You don't have to trigger the fist/kick QTE during Jeanne battle (don't press Y+B when the QTE icon pops up). You can just beat her to death with normal methods.Aske said:
_Xenon_ said:
Oh so here comes the "you play it wrong!" card. Well excuse me if I expect professional developers to make a game that's enjoyable without dedicating my life in learning every nuance of the gameplay.
Can you fanboys admit any flaws at all about this game :lol
No shit sherlock. It just wasn't good enough to inspire a second playthrough for me.
zoukka said:
It is not a flaw, but rather it is a feature that limits the potential userbase to those who are dedicated to master this game.
It is like you are hating on go or chess and cry, while pointing out to "fanboys" who advise you to lose your first one hundred game to grasp the concept behind the games.
V_Arnold said:
I could understand you if random one hit kill QTE's were in fact anything that you'd expect to find in a game like this. Or would reflect the philosophy of this genre in any way.
Can you try and read my posts please? My beef with this game are all the out of place sections. Not the core game. I am in fact a fan of this genre and played the shit out of DMC games, Ninja Gaidens and God Hand.
i read it. you said it wasnt good enough for you to play through a second time. not rocket science here pal. no im not going through your post history to find out all of your nitpicks. dont give a shit really. i was reacting to your blanket statements that the game itself was not good enough. its a stupid remark.
kind of hard to take comments like that seriously, because obviously it is good enough for many folks here (including myself) to play through multiple times.
kind of hard to take comments like that seriously, because obviously it is good enough for many folks here (including myself) to play through multiple times.
Daigoro said:
Well so what? It only tells a tale about your personal situations. I only replay games if they REALLY awestruck me. I don't want to mess around with one game when there's hundreds of other great experiences out there that I have yet to play.
I don't understand why you don't take people seriously if they disagree with the general consensus :S
zoukka said:
it was just the comment. maybe it was just badly worded. not that i wasnt taking you seriously. i was just saying the comment wouldnt help people take you seriously.
you explained it much better in the post i just quoted here.
the game is not for everyone, not everyone is going to love it. that's cool. i do love it and have played through like 5 times now.
buts its ok for you to dislike or even hate the game. i just cant agree that the game is bad.
zoukka said:
That's because GoW's QTEs are much harder than Bayonetta's, so if you screw up you aren't punished by death. Besides, when you die in GoW you go back to the last savepoint, and it can be quite distant from the point you're at. In Bayonetta there are so many checkpoints that you'll never have to replay long parts of the levels to retry the QTE.
I'm not saying that it isn't a flaw, it IS a flaw and the game would've been better without QTE, but it's not a big deal. IMHO you are blowing the problem out of proportion.
Monocle
Member
Whether or not the motorcycle and missile sections were a good idea is debatable. Hell, I'll grant you that they weren't. But boss recycling? Get real. Every boss reappearance occurs in a completely different context than the original battle, and during these encounters their life bars are minuscule. Jeanne is the one exception, but seeing as she's the Vergil to Bayonetta's Dante, you'd need to have pretty damn shoddy taste in action games to complain.zoukka said:
I mention Bayonetta's unusual quality and volume of content and the best you can muster to contradict my point are those nitpicks? The vehicle portions occur in 5 verses (the last of which is fairly brief) out of a grand total of 124. The QTEs cease to be a problem after the first playthrough, but judging by your recent posts I guess you wouldn't know anything about that. As for the story, you do realize those cutscenes are skippable, right?
It's fine if Bayonetta isn't your cup of tea, but the reasons you've presented to back up your view are too flimsy to justify the severity of your criticism.
radiantdreamer
Member
zoukka said:
lol zoukka, this always seems to happen to you. This is what I'm talking about. Seems to happen time and time again.
You come into a discussion expressing your opinion (which is fine), but in such a way that for some reason, it offends people and a flame sparks.
People start chewing you out, then you go on saying "what's wrong with you people? fanboyz!?".
More people start chewing you out until you say "okay okay, shit, I wasn't THAT strongly against this game/subject matter." and drop the topic.
I love you too, buddy.
Captain_Spanky
Member
zoukka said:
So there shouldn't be, say, films that take repeated viewings to absorb and understand, books that don't require literary analysis or albums that reward musical analysis and in-depth listening? Developers are just as entitled to make a game that needs attention to fully enjoy as they are to make one that you can grasp in 30 seconds. Like a director making a Michael Bay movie or a David Lynch one.
Ultimo hombre
Banned
wow this thread took a turn for the stupid eh?
SecretBonusPoint
Banned
Ninja Gaiden's future is completely open since the next one will be an all new team, all new game, IF we ever see one again. Maybe we'll see something from Itagaki + Tokyo Vikings in the same realm, who knows. DMC though is definitely fucked. Bayonetta took everything the series has become and did it better and more importantly allowed itself to not even take itself vaguely seriously.
Everyone of course always forgets GodHand more than belongs in the 'God Tier' of action game perfection, and I don't see anyone tackling that style of play adequately again unless Mikami or Kamiya want to.
Everyone of course always forgets GodHand more than belongs in the 'God Tier' of action game perfection, and I don't see anyone tackling that style of play adequately again unless Mikami or Kamiya want to.
radiantdreamer said:
No. I posted many positive messages about Bayonetta here. And I finished the game which is something I never do, if I dislike a game. I hated these particular areas in Bayonetta, but luckily they weren't the majority of the game. But they were enough for me to move on and leave it to that one playthrough.
I guess I expected something more than just a DMC clone of this game. And no, new nuances in the gameplay system do not make this a new subgenre or differentiate it from the DMC series that much, even though some people make it sound like that.
NG is NG, GoW is GoW and Bayonetta is DMC with ass and tits on the main character. Get over it.
Not really. It's just annoying to see that empty bar in the score menuHawkian said:
And I want that special accessory you get on very easy. Sucks to be a completionist sometimes. Already have my 1000 gamerscore in this so now I can just relax with it Chamber said:
How fitting
TheThunder
Member
Ok so I finished the game yesterday and I didn't want to write my impression after it because of the bad last boss fight so I've slept on it.
Bayonetta is a good action game, in fact it's the best action game so far this gen and a good game in general, but it's not without it's flaws of course.
I bought the PS3 version and instilled on my HDD. At first I was really disappointed to hear how the port turned up because I was really looking forward to the game since it's made by the guy who did the only DMC game I liked. I was gonna wait for a price drop at first but then I figured "it couldn't be worse the shitty performance of Heavenly Sword" so I picked it up.
The game does a lot of things right:
-Bayonetta controls really nice and smooth and can cancel any move with a dodge.
- Some of the platforming was really well done.
-Boss fights in which you go against some one of your own size was the best thing in the game
- I really loved the difference between the weapons you can use whether it was the dual guns or the Katana.
As for the things I didn't like:
-Vehicle sections felt two third to long as in the first third of them introduces everything their is about them and the last two third are nothing but repeats(The rocket one was especially bad) and the execution of those section was poor in general I would have been fine if they were removed all together and replaced with a boss or some more fighting.
-I found the combat pretty much winds up of going something like this:
Get near the enemy
wait for them to attack
Dodge and activate witch time
beat the hell out of them
repeat
Although Grace and Glory but up a good fight and they were really challenging.
- QTE, Holy shit how did this thing turn so wrong I don't know. I feel like Aske post summed up everything I wanted to say about this issues.
- Bosses and I'm hear talking about the big "epic" scale boss or any big enemy in genral. The game just did them all wrong they don't translate well with Bayonetta combat techniques, They are both fast and crushing and when you hit them you feel like you are hitting a punching bag. If we had more boss fights with the baker it would've been awesome.
- Art and backround. The first two chapters looked really good and were nice to go through but then either the art team at the time took a vacation or were fired. Pretty much almost the rest of the games backrounds and location ranged from meh to out right garbage IMO and it's a shame giving how good the first two looked.
That's pretty much how I feel about the game. It's just my opinion and not a fact I'm trying to force down somebody's throat. I'm really looking forward to a sequel that fixes some of the problems in this game.
Bayonetta is a good action game, in fact it's the best action game so far this gen and a good game in general, but it's not without it's flaws of course.
I bought the PS3 version and instilled on my HDD. At first I was really disappointed to hear how the port turned up because I was really looking forward to the game since it's made by the guy who did the only DMC game I liked. I was gonna wait for a price drop at first but then I figured "it couldn't be worse the shitty performance of Heavenly Sword" so I picked it up.
The game does a lot of things right:
-Bayonetta controls really nice and smooth and can cancel any move with a dodge.
- Some of the platforming was really well done.
-Boss fights in which you go against some one of your own size was the best thing in the game
(the baker chick boss fight above the building in the island was the highlight of the game)
As for the things I didn't like:
-Vehicle sections felt two third to long as in the first third of them introduces everything their is about them and the last two third are nothing but repeats(The rocket one was especially bad) and the execution of those section was poor in general I would have been fine if they were removed all together and replaced with a boss or some more fighting.
-I found the combat pretty much winds up of going something like this:
Get near the enemy
wait for them to attack
Dodge and activate witch time
beat the hell out of them
repeat
Although Grace and Glory but up a good fight and they were really challenging.
- QTE, Holy shit how did this thing turn so wrong I don't know. I feel like Aske post summed up everything I wanted to say about this issues.
- Bosses and I'm hear talking about the big "epic" scale boss or any big enemy in genral. The game just did them all wrong they don't translate well with Bayonetta combat techniques, They are both fast and crushing and when you hit them you feel like you are hitting a punching bag. If we had more boss fights with the baker it would've been awesome.
- Art and backround. The first two chapters looked really good and were nice to go through but then either the art team at the time took a vacation or were fired. Pretty much almost the rest of the games backrounds and location ranged from meh to out right garbage IMO and it's a shame giving how good the first two looked.
That's pretty much how I feel about the game. It's just my opinion and not a fact I'm trying to force down somebody's throat. I'm really looking forward to a sequel that fixes some of the problems in this game.
User 10639
Member
Yes, yes I do! Well, I don't hate GOW, but I do hate QTE's and how fucking common they've become, and that aspect of GOW is probably the part of that series that I hate the most.danmaku said:
I feel like DMC is the one game in the series that remembered to design a good game around the combat. Everything about DMC3 (except for the combat) is so drab and dull that it's hard to repeatedly play for me. DMC4 was a little better in that respect, as I wasn't bothered by all of the non-combat stuff, but it was also totally unmemorable.zoukka said:
I liked Nero's half, but the Dante stuff was just, snooze, DMC3 all over again.Chamber said:
They had the guts to introduce a new character, and they made him fun to play, and then they chickened out halfway through and threw all that out so we could play the previous game and main character in the series again, but with new levels. Bleh.
Yes, except with enemies that are fun to fight. DMC3 gives you this fantastic combat engine and then makes you fight enemies who go intangible when you face them, enemies who need to be hit with bullets before you melee them and chess pieces....icarus-daedelus said:
Chess pieces.....
The interactions with various enemy types is very important in games like this and it's something I think Bayonetta really excels at.
I still occasionally turn on DMC4 and play Bloody Palace.Hawkian said:
radiantdreamer
Member
I have to admit, I can literally SEE the good in this game while playing it. It's unfortunate that I can't access it because of my lack of skill. I'd turn down the difficulty, but then I'd feel like I'm cheating halfway (near the end) of the game.
I'll probably suck it up, and then replay all the chapters on an easier difficulty, and if I still can't get into it, then I will have to give up and say that this game sucks because of me.
I'll probably suck it up, and then replay all the chapters on an easier difficulty, and if I still can't get into it, then I will have to give up and say that this game sucks because of me.