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BAYONETTA An Action Game by Hideki Kamiya |OT|

  • Thread starter Deleted member 30609
  • Start date
Otrebor Nightmarecoat said:
Just finished Non stop infinite climax and my 1000pts gamerscore. So few single player games are this replayable .

Fucking played Vestibule/Prologue on hard. No way I'm putting up with that bullshit. I had to kill, like 5 Grace and glories without witch time just to get 1 fucking torture attack. I don't have to subject myself to that cheese. Sticking with normal.
 

Bernbaum

Member
Started re-playing the first few chapters following my completion of the game. Obviously it's a lot easier with the extra unlocks, but I'm clearing whole chapters with little to no health lost. It's a real treat to get to a stage where enemies can be read easily and attacks anticipated. Now I can see why all you action buffs love this game to bits.
 

Duress

Member
I just finished the game and I'm confused with the plot.
Specifically how the child kid fits into the whole entire plot.

The torture attacks make me wish there was another Godhand game.

Definitely some intense moments. Overall very good game.
 
palpabl_purpura said:
Fucking played Vestibule/Prologue on hard. No way I'm putting up with that bullshit. I had to kill, like 5 Grace and glories without witch time just to get 1 fucking torture attack. I don't have to subject myself to that cheese. Sticking with normal.

If you were doing it right you wouldnt have had to kill any of them. Dodging fills your magic bar, as does Taunting.
 
D

Deleted member 30609

Unconfirmed Member
I've said this a million times, but using dual-Scarborough Fair after every punch or kick sends your magic metre into over-drive super-quick.
 

Bernbaum

Member
So I'm looking to mix things up on my second play-through. Played almost entirely with Durga and Shuraba on my first playthrough, and I have access to the whip and shotguns. Any must-have weapons that are recommended I unlock before I dive into my second play?
 

remz

Member
Bernbaum said:
So I'm looking to mix things up on my second play-through. Played almost entirely with Durga and Shuraba on my first playthrough, and I have access to the whip and shotguns. Any must-have weapons that are recommended I unlock before I dive into my second play?
Get em all. Kilgore moreso then the whip but the whip is pretty sick once you get used to it.

palpabl_purpura said:
Fucking played Vestibule/Prologue on hard. No way I'm putting up with that bullshit. I had to kill, like 5 Grace and glories without witch time just to get 1 fucking torture attack. I don't have to subject myself to that cheese. Sticking with normal.
That's probably the worst part of hard TBH, I did it last.
 

Bernbaum

Member
remz said:
Get em all. Kilgore moreso then the whip but the whip is pretty sick once you get used to it.
What's a good combination to have though? I'll probably keep Durga/Shubara as one set, and am considering focusing on shotgun/whip as my main setup.
 

Korey

Member
Just finished all of the alfheims today. For people having problems with em, depending on which alfheim it is I find that you can cheese several of them using the whip + gaze of despair.

The whip gives you range, and you can quickly whip/panther out whenever you need to, and it completely negates enemies that are on fire. And it pretty much auto aims, so you can just run around spamming it from a safe distance.

I'm not sure if the gaze actually makes you hit harder, but it seems that way for some reason. Either way, it lets you build magic up much faster, which was really useful for the torture attack ones.
 

Oyashiro

Member
Finally beat Hard Mode, yay~ And now I've got 47/50 achievements. All I need is to find all the final resting places, find all of the written reports, and beat the game in NSIC. Dunno if I'll be able to do that last one though... Hard was a complete bitch.

PS: For whoever was asking for a good weapon combination, I'd say go with Pillow Talk (or Shuraba) and Killgore. There's this one kickass combo with the Killgore... I think it's PPPK(keep pressing K after the initial Ps) or PPPPK(same thing). Can't remember, but all I know is that it has Bayo doing these kicks with the Killgore and it not only does a lot of damage, but also makes explosions which are really nice if you're getting gangbanged.
 
palpabl_purpura said:
Fucking played Vestibule/Prologue on hard. No way I'm putting up with that bullshit. I had to kill, like 5 Grace and glories without witch time just to get 1 fucking torture attack. I don't have to subject myself to that cheese. Sticking with normal.

Gaze of Despair and dodge will fill up your magic gauge very very quickly. I was able to make it through the torture attack segment in about 1min even though I took some damage. If you have practiced dodge cancelling then you can get a few wicked weave attacks in while primarily focusing on dodging.
 

Snuggles

erotic butter maelstrom
Rez said:
I've said this a million times, but using dual-Scarborough Fair after every punch or kick sends your magic metre into over-drive super-quick.

Hmm, would that make it easier for me to do that 3x tortue attacks part in the prologue on hard? Might have to try that.

I still have a lot of unlocking to do, but I love the Katana/Kilgore combo. I use the Whip/skates as my alt, I've been getting the hang of pulling them into the air with the whip then switch to Katana and doing a mid-air combo on them. It's pretty awesome, the whip is also very handy for those flying manta ray guys.

QUESTION: What exactly do I need to do for the Ice Queen achievement? I've been trying to ?????? while wearing ?????? but it's not working. Oh, and how do I kill any enemy by jumping on them? I'm working on getting all the points but some aren't too clear.
 
palpabl_purpura said:
Fucking played Vestibule/Prologue on hard. No way I'm putting up with that bullshit. I had to kill, like 5 Grace and glories without witch time just to get 1 fucking torture attack. I don't have to subject myself to that cheese. Sticking with normal.

:lol so funny cause I just got done spending an hour fucking with this same shit then I was like "FUCK!!!" and decided to take a break. got online and looked at this thread and I see this.

dude I feel your pain. that part is the biggest bullshit ever. EVER.
 
Snuggler said:
Hmm, would that make it easier for me to do that 3x tortue attacks part in the prologue on hard? Might have to try that.

I still have a lot of unlocking to do, but I love the Katana/Kilgore combo. I use the Whip/skates as my alt, I've been getting the hang of pulling them into the air with the whip then switch to Katana and doing a mid-air combo on them. It's pretty awesome, the whip is also very handy for those flying manta ray guys.

QUESTION: What exactly do I need to do for the Ice Queen achievement? I've been trying to ?????? while wearing ?????? but it's not working. Oh, and how do I kill any enemy by jumping on them? I'm working on getting all the points but some aren't too clear.
You can also get magic by taunting.

As for the achievements

You need to freeze 20 separate enemies with the Ice Skates. So even if you freeze the same one twice, it only counts as one. The easiest way to kill an enemy by jumping on them is to go on in to one of the Alfheim portals which asks you to stay in the air for thirty seconds or a minute, take out the whip, hold Y and jump on the enemy (you don't even need to move) when they get to you. Keep doing this and eventually someone will die.
 
I like the game but there are too many exploits/cheap ways to negate the games challenge, but still get rewarded for it.

kilgore exploit = combo leaderboards are worthless
spamming magic items + bangle of time = time leaderboards are worthless
'phone' cheat codes and 'halo farming'
you can clear hard/non stop climax w/ the climax bracelet and still get the achievement
pillow talk+kilgore exploit = why even bother dodging?
 
mjemirzian said:
I like the game but there are too many exploits/cheap ways to negate the games challenge, but still get rewarded for it.

kilgore exploit = combo leaderboards are worthless
spamming magic items + bangle of time = time leaderboards are worthless
'phone' cheat codes and 'halo farming'
you can clear hard/non stop climax w/ the climax bracelet and still get the achievement
pillow talk+kilgore exploit = why even bother dodging?

You could just play it your way and have fun. It's not like everyone in your neighborhood yells out the window and tells you how you should be watching television.
 
mjemirzian said:
I like the game but there are too many exploits/cheap ways to negate the games challenge, but still get rewarded for it.

kilgore exploit = combo leaderboards are worthless
spamming magic items + bangle of time = time leaderboards are worthless
'phone' cheat codes and 'halo farming'
you can clear hard/non stop climax w/ the climax bracelet and still get the achievement
pillow talk+kilgore exploit = why even bother dodging?

what is the kilgore exploit?

and honestly...leaderboards arent a big deal to me.

But I am so glad they put in the "phone cheat codes" cause I know no matter how much time I put in to this game, I will never unlock jeanne without being able to have that option.

sorry...I just am not THAT good.
 

Aske

Member
Snuggler said:
QUESTION: What exactly do I need to do for the Ice Queen achievement? I've been trying to ?????? while wearing ?????? but it's not working. Oh, and how do I kill any enemy by jumping on them? I'm working on getting all the points but some aren't too clear.

Ice Queen achievement - just attack enemies using the skates. Not sure if it has to be a regular KKKK chain or not, but eventually you'll have skated them enough to
turn them into blocks of ice
at which point they can be thrown if you feel like it. Do it ten times and you'll get the achievement.

Killing an enemy by jumping on them works like this: the longer you fall, the bigger the impact Bayonetta makes on the ground. Landing on an enemy is an attack. I think every jump at any height does a bit of damage to an enemy if you land on them. Whittle down an enemy's health and land on it. I just picked it up during the course of the game, which is why I don't think the fall has to be from any great height. Sections with a lot of platforms should be good for this though, and others have said that equipping the shotguns to the feet seems to help.
 

LiK

Member
Sohter.Nura said:
I got a question, is there anyway to replay the levels on a single playthrough?

I wanted to go back just to practice but I'm not sure how.

R1 or RB in the Chapter Menu.
 
Sohter.Nura said:
I got a question, is there anyway to replay the levels on a single playthrough?

I wanted to go back just to practice but I'm not sure how.
Hit RB (or whatever the PS3 equivalent if you're playing that) at the chapter menu, where "Gates of Hell" "Start" and "Save" options are. There should be a chapter selection option.
 

Draft

Member
I think dual Scarborough Fair is the best weapon set to learn Dodge Offset. The "hold" attack is very straight forward and easy to use, and getting used to holding buttons instead of tapping them is the key to enabling Dodge Offset.

Having put about 22 hours into Bayonetta so far, I feel ready to finally offer a final opinion.

Bayonetta is awesome. Just awesome. In a generation that's been iffy with action games, Bayonetta clearly stands tall above the competition. But, when you compare it to previous generations? Then it's not so clear.

The core of Bayonetta is pretty flawless. There's a lot to like about the combat system. It has that Blizzard style easy to learn, hard to master thing going on. No phone book of dial-a-combos, and no need to juggle weapons/stances like a gangster clown. Obviously doesn't allow button mashing, but at the same time doesn't require printing out a FAQ or watching Youtubes to be effective.

Art is hot, music is hot. They're both kind of all over the place thematically, but the quality is uniformly high even without much cohesion.

Tons of enemy variety, every boss is fun, and a few are pretty memorable. All of the bosses are meant to be epic, but honestly, the game itself is so insane that free falling churches and doing battle under the sea kind of lose their grandeur.

Also, huge props for the shear amount of crap in this game. In the age of DLC, getting a game for $60 that has like 2 dozen costumes, a dozen weapons, a dozen items, three characters and who knows how many changes from normal mode -> hard mode. Bayonetta is bursting with content, and not just for an HD gen game. Maybe one of the most packed games ever.

So just a great, great game. But a classic? The closer a game gets to classic status, the more scrutiny it should endure. Great games are rare, but classics might only come along once or twice a generation, and a game has to earn that shit. There can be no rationalization - it's either genius, or it's not.

Bayonetta... may or may not be.

For a game that gets SO MUCH right, it gets enough wrong to keep it out of the top tier. The Outrun/Space Harrier levels are awful and long. So loooong. It's almost unbelievable how many minutes are spent on these janky, frustrating sequences. And what really grinds the knife is that they're required. They're scored segments. Either learn the awfulness, or accept a marred score.

Speaking of wretched bullshit hosing scores, quick time fucking events. Thank God that they seem to disappear after the first third of the game. But that's not good enough. What in the world are some broken, ugly, childish mechanics like QTEs doing in a game that so clearly nurtures and rewards player skill. Having a PP run torpedoed by a botched QTE is a sin against action gaming.

Platforming. Fuck that shit.

Shooting the turret. First Dead Space, now Bayonetta. What is the game developer boner for terrible turret sequences?

Technically, Bayonetta is not that great. 60 FPS is a noble goal, but it doesn't excuse the amount of screen tearing going on (which, btw, DOES appear to be worse if you install.) There's also quite a bit of slowdown, and mysterious slowdown at that. Seemingly quiet, simple sequences will flutter in the high 30s, while most combat situations hold a solid 60.

Finally, the Alfheims. At first, the idea of secret challenges being part of the level score seemed... off. But in effect, it works well. The challenges aren't as goofball as the ones in DMC and seem like things that could be in the level proper. What doesn't is the weird, abstract way they appear. One is hidden until a certain trash can is destroyed. Many of them don't appear until some random task is performed, but get this: they appear WAY BACK IN THE BEGINNING OF THE MAP. The hell. Is this something Japanese people expect? Just like totally random, weird secrets that offer no clues or hints?

So, there it is. I have to put some serious time into hard mode still, not to mention lost chapter and getting the last unlockables. Maybe some additional time with the core game will help offset the bad taste of the shitty parts. Maybe additional times will just make the shitty parts shittier. What's certain is that they're are some REALLY shitty parts, and they tarnish what's otherwise a flawless game.

Hopefully this doesn't come across as too harsh. I'm in love with Bayonetta, but that love just makes the ass parts all that more jarring. Still action game of the generation. Probably deserves a spot on the top tier. Definitely a must buy for anyone who values skill over mashing.
 

Aske

Member
mjemirzian said:
I like the game but there are too many exploits/cheap ways to negate the games challenge, but still get rewarded for it.

kilgore exploit = combo leaderboards are worthless
spamming magic items + bangle of time = time leaderboards are worthless
'phone' cheat codes and 'halo farming'
you can clear hard/non stop climax w/ the climax bracelet and still get the achievement
pillow talk+kilgore exploit = why even bother dodging?

I see your point about the time leaderboards and climax bracelet, but I don't think anything else is particularly cheap.

The Kilgore exploit still has to be done well in order to get a high combo score, and while overpowered, it's still just another combo. People use the best combos available to get a great combo score, and the can compete on a level playing field using the Kilgore move. It's just a mid-combo weapon switch.

The phone cheats give all players access to the extra content, and given how huge the unlockables are I think this is reasonable. You have to farm halos for the cheats to work, so there's still a trade. If a player isn't good enough to get the reward through skill, he can get it for putting in time. It's like Soul Calibur - letting people unlock items by playing for X number of hours even if they haven't met the requirements - but without automatically taking the challenge away from people who want to go the skill route over a long period of time. The fact that the unlockables are too game-changing to be restricted to the elite players says a lot about their quality. Two of Bayonetta's greatest strengths are the amount of content it contains and the game's accessibility to all players.
 

Volcynika

Member
Draft said:
Hopefully this doesn't come across as too harsh. I'm in love with Bayonetta, but that love just makes the ass parts all that more jarring. Still action game of the generation. Probably deserves a spot on the top tier. Definitely a must buy for anyone who values skill over mashing.

Bayonetta herself made you come up with that description!
 

Zeliard

Member
I mostly agree with everything Draft wrote, though I don't think the shitty parts will ever be quite enough to overwhelm the majesty of the rest of the game, if they aren't right now (and they certainly are not to me).

As you play more, stuff like the horribly unnecessary QTEs matter less, and the Sega throwbacks are ignored more easily (even as you're actually going through them).

Would absolutely love a PC version of this game though for some technical perfection to go along with the top-tier gameplay.
 

TheCardPlayer

Likes to have "friends" around to "play cards" with
Draft said:
Hopefully this doesn't come across as too harsh. I'm in love with Bayonetta, but that love just makes the ass parts all that more jarring. Still action game of the generation. Probably deserves a spot on the top tier. Definitely a must buy for anyone who values skill over mashing.

I agree with 50% of what you wrote and disagree with the rest. I think that not only that the game deserves a top in the top tier, it needs a tier by itself. It's bursting with content and the combat is as technical as it'll probably get.

It's not like DMC or NG, were free of bullshit either. I agree with IGN UK. We shouldn't compare this game with DMC but with Super Mario Galaxy. It's the same kind of twisted, mad genius. I think that I can overlook the rough parts when I think about all the sheer insanity of the rest of the game. I didn't especially mind the Outrun level but the Space Harrier part, is one of the most overlong and infuriating, in a game in quite a while. But then again, I just look at the boss fight and it saves the right of the level for me.

And remember that the game was made by a small studio. The fact that the game has a presentation this good, should offset the rough corners, we all run into from time to time.
 

Papercuts

fired zero bullets in the orphanage.
Draft said:
One is hidden until a certain trash can is destroyed.

:lol

It's not as important to hide items in goofball ways, but the game does that in spades too. How many people could seriously get the very first broken moon piece in the game without a guide? You need to double jump + wall jump off the train at the start, on top of a higher balcony. Then you circle all the way around it breaking every single bench and the train moves revealing it. It's insane.

But I agree with your post pretty much entirely. I don't even get chapter 8 in general yet. I'm not understanding how it's even possible to not get hit at the motorcycle part, it all feels so random. I like 14 a lot more, but it does go on for too long.

And the QTEs grate at me like none other, which I especially noticed on my speedrun for <3 hours. I skipped around levels and skipped cutscenes, which revealed just how many times you get attacked out of EVERY cutscene, I basically mash(only time I'll do that here) dodge while I skip a cutscene because I have no idea what the timing I need to remember was, if there even is an enemy there. I had some shockingly good runs but the medals don't show it, since I forgot about random QTE. One at the end of the motorcycle scene caught me off guard, then I replayed chapter 3 and remembered the QTE that happened during the tower falling. But I didn't remember the exact button, so when I hit A(since you JUMP off the tower), it ended up being X and I died. Terrific. I know it never actually changes the button, but they could have atleast made it universally A for jumping stuff, not make it something that can mess up a run because you forgot the exact button.

Everything else is bursting through the seems with awesome, though.
 

Aske

Member
Zeliard said:
I mostly agree with everything Draft wrote, though I don't think the shitty parts will ever be quite enough to overwhelm the majesty of the rest of the game, if they aren't right now (and they certainly are not to me).

As you play more, stuff like the horribly unnecessary QTEs matter less, and the Sega throwbacks are ignored more easily (even as you're actually going through them).

My thoughts exactly. The QTEs are enough of a buzz-kill the first time you play - the one time you really care about getting it right because failure kills some of the most epic moments - that they're still my biggest criticism of the game; but they don't bug me near as much on my second run. I've seen everything already so they don't break the epic flow, and I've done them enough not to fluff them and screw up my score. As for the bike and missile levels; having done them twice now, the bike is still awesome. Overlong, sure, but I know I won't mind the gimmick on repeat plays. The missile level is pretty lousy, but the magic-refilling bracelet makes it much less painful. The problem will be Platinuming it on Normal to unlock Jeanne, but it doesn't get in the way of the overwhelming quality that constitutes the rest of the experience.

As an NG2 fan, I'm the last person to talk to about technical issues in action games; but in Bayonetta they don't impact the combat at all on the 360. I'm playing with the game installed, and it only hitches in the first couple of chapters during exploration. The combat is butter-smooth. I'm not going to dock points for technical issues that don't impact the core gameplay.

So while I mostly agree with Draft about the pros and cons, I reach a different conclusion. The fun factor tilts me away from the pessimism. As far as I'm concerned, Bayonetta is already a classic game, and it'll be a sore loss if it doesn't follow DMC and NG to become a classic franchise.
 

Draft

Member
Papercuts said:
:lol

It's not as important to hide items in goofball ways, but the game does that in spades too. How many people could seriously get the very first broken moon piece in the game without a guide? You need to double jump + wall jump off the train at the start, on top of a higher balcony. Then you circle all the way around it breaking every single bench and the train moves revealing it. It's insane.

But I agree with your post pretty much entirely. I don't even get chapter 8 in general yet. I'm not understanding how it's even possible to not get hit at the motorcycle part, it all feels so random. I like 14 a lot more, but it does go on for too long.

And the QTEs grate at me like none other, which I especially noticed on my speedrun for <3 hours. I skipped around levels and skipped cutscenes, which revealed just how many times you get attacked out of EVERY cutscene, I basically mash(only time I'll do that here) dodge while I skip a cutscene because I have no idea what the timing I need to remember was, if there even is an enemy there. I had some shockingly good runs but the medals don't show it, since I forgot about random QTE. One at the end of the motorcycle scene caught me off guard, then I replayed chapter 3 and remembered the QTE that happened during the tower falling. But I didn't remember the exact button, so when I hit A(since you JUMP off the tower), it ended up being X and I died. Terrific. I know it never actually changes the button, but they could have atleast made it universally A for jumping stuff, not make it something that can mess up a run because you forgot the exact button.

Everything else is bursting through the seems with awesome, though.
Good call on that attack out of cutscene bullshit. I'd forgotten, but you're right, it happens over and over again.
 

TheCardPlayer

Likes to have "friends" around to "play cards" with
ShockingAlberto said:
Fuck!

Missing one heart

and I have no idea where

I don't want to go through the entire game with a FAQ just to find whichever one I might be missing

Eh, I'm pretty sure it's the one at the very start of Chapter II. Worst fucking hiding spot ever. :lol
 

Darkman M

Member
ShockingAlberto said:
Fuck!

Missing one heart

and I have no idea where

I don't want to go through the entire game with a FAQ just to find whichever one I might be missing


I was missing one heart as well, ended up watching a youtube heart guide and came across the one i was missing, it was a pain, but i put to much work in to not get the last heart.
 
Aske said:
The Kilgore exploit still has to be done well in order to get a high combo score, and while overpowered, it's still just another combo. People use the best combos available to get a great combo score, and the can compete on a level playing field using the Kilgore move. It's just a mid-combo weapon switch.

Highly disagree on the Kilgore exploit. It's very easy to max out the combo counter at 999999 per verse or 9999999 per chapter. Look at the top combo leaderboards which are all maxed out. The exploit completely breaks the combo score because it can easily cap the counter, and does far far more damage than even the OP pillow talk charge, or anything else you can think of. Just look at the vids on youtube. It also makes pure platinums trivial to get on any difficulty. You're very much underrating the severity of this glitch.

The most embarrassing thing though is that they did not bother to fix it despite delaying the finished game for months to avoid Modern Warfare 2's release date. Based on the low combo cap and the ease with which you can reach it using the exploit, it's pretty obvious the developers never intended the player to have access to anything nearly as powerful.

Halo farming is dumb (I hate any form of brainless/skill less grinding) but it's far from the worst problem with the games skill/score systems.
 
Darkman M said:
I was missing one heart as well, ended up watching a youtube heart guide and came across the one i was missing, it was a pain, but i put to much work in to not get the last heart.
Do you have a link to that video?
 

Roto13

Member
I don't get all the grief over the Prologue on hard mode. I got a Platinum award my first time. :p There's harder shit to do on Normal.
 

Aske

Member
mjemirzian said:
Highly disagree on the Kilgore exploit. It's very easy to max out the combo counter at 999999 per verse or 9999999 per chapter. Look at the top combo leaderboards which are all maxed out. The exploit completely breaks the combo score because it can easily cap the counter, and does far far more damage than even the OP pillow talk charge, or anything else you can think of. Just look at the vids on youtube. It also makes pure platinums trivial to get on any difficulty. You're very much underrating the severity of this glitch.

The most embarrassing thing though is that they did not bother to fix it despite delaying the finished game for months to avoid Modern Warfare 2's release date. Based on the low combo cap and the ease with which you can reach it using the exploit, it's pretty obvious the developers never intended the player to have access to anything nearly as powerful.

Point well made - I completely forgot about the cap. If there had been a higher cap there would be no problem, but you're right, it's definitely a mistake.
 
Finished up through Chapter IX...This game is simply amazing. I even really enjoyed the "too long" sequence. This is just crazy. Every single encounter is memorable as hell as well.
 
Just figured out I can actually change my weapons /swt

Had been using my kicks and punches up until now. I was like "man, this boss fight is REALLY REALLY hard!"

So I played with the menu and I figured out I could switch weapons and the game got a lot, lot easier.

I just passed the
second sister fight, I think
, and the game is starting to get a looooot better right now. I can picture myself playing it many times :p
 
The Kilgore exploit is hardly a major problem. It's expected given the sheer breadth and depth of the combat system that one or two combos will be overpowered, but all this really means is that the online leaderboards are useless. We will instead have to rely on youtube challenge videos as we have for action games in the past. Not a huge problem in my eyes
 
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