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[Confounding Factor]

About the only thing is nuking the filibuster. And up until 2016/2017, it was used mostly responsibly. GOP forced the issue with their unprecedented obstruction. Dems did get rid of it, btw, for court nominations. So to say they didn't take drastic measures to force even a basic level of movement is false.

Even the GOP hasn't touched it yet for legislation. But sure, moving forward, I don't think it has a place anymore. Not with how the GOP operates. But for it to even work how we want it to, Dems would need the House, Senate, and Executive.

But even then, it just means the next time they get power, they can easily overturn laws previously passed. Grinding progress to a halt.

The era of bipartisanship is over. Good riddance, what a naive idea anyway.

If Democrats can retake control, they better stack the SC with a few more Justices from Garland's stolen seat. I won't hold my breath though. I want the youngest most liberal Justice on the bench.

 

[Poor GRIMES]

Yeah Obamacare is so bad that Trump voters somehow convinced a Republican controlled House and Senate to delay it's repeal as much as it has been... 🙄

 

[Clipjoint]

So to be clear your strategy to make it HARDER for Republicans to dismantle his health care is to change a Senate rule which by definition would have made it infinitely easier to dismantle the second the Republicans gained a majority?

Holy shit lol

Yeah you're right, by not passing single payer with 50 votes he kept the Republicans from turning around and dismantling his plan with 50 votes as soon as they were in office. He sure did play those guys like a fiddle!

 

[Wall]

After reading this it seems like its a take down action, since it is rooted from a Trumpeter.

Based on everything I read, the stuff against Bernie Sanders himself is bullshit from the Trump operative (who also was involved in the Benghazi smear campaign).

At the very least Jane Sanders appears to have been a poor college administrator; although, from what I know of "alternative colleges", her task of being a "turnaround administrator" may have been doomed from the start and bound to generate ill will in any case.

In any event, as the article I linked to pointed out, being bad at your job, an asshole, and/or making mistakes on a loan document are not crimes. To prove fraud, prosecutors need to prove that Jane Sanders knowingly defrauded the lenders, which is hard.

 

[Amir0x]

Yeah you're right, by not passing single payer with 50 votes he kept the Republicans from turning around and dismantling his plan with 50 votes as soon as they were in office. He sure did play those guys like a fiddle!

The argument has nothing to do with some grand plan. He said Obama was feckless because look how easy it has been for Republicans to dismantle Obamacare.

One, Obama cannot change Senate rules and it was clear from day one that option was off the table. Second, removing the rule would by definition had made it easier to repeal not harder. So his entire premise was false. He wasn't mad at Obama because of the ease of dismantling a Obamacare since his solution was to make it even easier to dismantle.

Similarly Republicans are having a tough time of it, even if it inevitably is removed. This was not an easy hill to climb, and because of the rules we have in place the bill - as horrendous as it now is - could be even worse. So removing the filibuster sounds nice, but it is absurdly short term thinking. Especially since power switches regularly in waves in this country.
,

 

[nocturnalis]

Based on everything I read, the stuff against Bernie Sanders himself is bullshit from the Trump operative (who also was involved in the Benghazi smear campaign).

At the very least Jane Sanders appears to have been a poor college administrator; although, from what I know of "alternative colleges", her task of being a "turnaround administrator" may have been doomed from the start and bound to generate ill will in any case.

In any event, as the article I linked to pointed out, being bad at your job, an asshole, and/or making mistakes on a loan document are not crimes. To prove fraud, prosecutors need to prove that Jane Sanders knowingly defrauded the lenders, which is hard.

This has been an issue before the Trump administration took over. Even if it's fud, disregarding it won't make it go away.

And on the Obamacare thing, people tend to ignore how much racism is a factor. Even when they acknowledge it being a factor, it is even a bigger factor than you would think. People like 90% of the stuff in it, but when it is being championed by a Black man, it is somehow worse than Lucifer himself.

 

[plagiarize]

Do we know when this investigation officially began? Because if it was before HA Goodman started railing against Clinton and saying things like 'We have to support the candidate who isn't under FBI investigation' it would make me happy.

Sounds like it might have begun before the election... but does anyone actually know?

 

[Wall]

This has been an issue before the Trump administration took over. Even if it's fud, disregarding it won't make it go away

It's a specific set of charges brought to the attention of the FBI by a conservative operative with a record of going after Democrats with similar allegations. This individual also is canidate for the very office that will prosecute the case.

The issue may not go away, but I am not going to ignore these facts.

edit: The details of when the investigation began are in the article I linked. I think it started around the beginning of the primaries.

 

[Clipjoint]

The argument has nothing to do with some grand plan. He said Obama was feckless because look how easy it has been for Republicans to dismantle Obamacare.

One, Obama cannot change Senate rules and it was clear from day one that option was off the table. Second, removing the rule would by definition had made it easier to pass not harder. So his entire premise was false. He wasn't mad at Obama because of the ease of dismantling a Obamacare since his solution was to make it even easier to dismantle.

Similarly Republicans are having a tough time of it, even if it inevitably is removed. This was not an easy hill to climb, and because of the rules we have in place the bill - as horrendous as it now is - could be even worse. So removing the filibuster sounds nice, but it is absurdly short term thinking. Especially since power switches regularly in waves in this country.
,

Obama's decision not to dismantle the filibuster (to give healthcare to millions of people and transform our economy) did not stop the Republicans from deciding to dismantle the filibuster (to give rich people tax cuts, at the cost of millions of lives).

His obsession with being bipartisan made him an awful politician who got played over and over again (see: Garland) and he ended up pushing through an extremely flawed healthcare plan that is going to be easily dismantled in a few days.

If he had pushed through single payer, he would have been a hero and a historic figure. We have to live with the consequences of his feckless leadership for decades to come.

 

[The Technomancer]

Obama's decision not to dismantle the filibuster (to give healthcare to millions of people and transform our economy) did not stop the Republicans from deciding to dismantle the filibuster (to give rich people tax cuts, at the cost of millions of lives).

His obsession with being bipartisan made him an awful politician who got played over and over again (see: Garland) and he ended up pushing through an extremely flawed healthcare plan that is going to be easily dismantled in a few days.

If he had pushed through single payer, he would have been a hero and a historic figure. We have to live with the consequences of his feckless leadership for decades to come.

Why are you so sure the repubicans would not have repealed his single payer plan just the same? The AHCA already has something like 17% approval, they clearly do not care about popularity

Unless you think the Tea Party backlash was because Obamacare wasn't progressive enough in which case...that's a whole different level we're going to have to engage on

 

[Smellycat]

So you are telling me that the 3 most prominent 2016 presidential candidates are/were under FBI investigation in the last year? What a farce

 

[Ziltoidia 9]

Based on everything I read, the stuff against Bernie Sanders himself is bullshit from the Trump operative (who also was involved in the Benghazi smear campaign).

At the very least Jane Sanders appears to have been a poor college administrator; although, from what I know of "alternative colleges", her task of being a "turnaround administrator" may have been doomed from the start and bound to generate ill will in any case.

In any event, as the article I linked to pointed out, being bad at your job, an asshole, and/or making mistakes on a loan document are not crimes. To prove fraud, prosecutors need to prove that Jane Sanders knowingly defrauded the lenders, which is hard.

If they did break the law the should face the consequences, but it seems like it was just a bad use of money and she failed. And since this never really cought any legs until now (surprise, guess who is leading the DOJ) seems like a political hatchet job. I honostly wouldn't put it past Trump and his crew to try and re-open something on Hillary. That was my first thought when the framed firing Comey around a bad job in Clinton investigation.

 

[Dan]

Based on everything I read, the stuff against Bernie Sanders himself is bullshit from the Trump operative (who also was involved in the Benghazi smear campaign).

At the very least Jane Sanders appears to have been a poor college administrator; although, from what I know of "alternative colleges", her task of being a "turnaround administrator" may have been doomed from the start and bound to generate ill will in any case.

In any event, as the article I linked to pointed out, being bad at your job, an asshole, and/or making mistakes on a loan document are not crimes. To prove fraud, prosecutors need to prove that Jane Sanders knowingly defrauded the lenders, which is hard.

She sure made a helluva mistake.

 

[Nasbin]

I can't believe people are still buying into this idea that Obamacare was a failure. The Republicans already admitted defeat when they switched gears to repeal-and-replace. The senate AHCA bill as-it-stands is essentially Obamacare without a mandate, which is stupid and unsustainable but it illustrates the point: the public's expectation for the affordable healthcare entitlement is here to stay.

Of course leave it to leftists who are blind to anything short of fully automated heteronormative space communism to lose sight of the nuances of public policy.

 

[SolarPowered]

Based on everything I read, the stuff against Bernie Sanders himself is bullshit from the Trump operative (who also was involved in the Benghazi smear campaign).

At the very least Jane Sanders appears to have been a poor college administrator; although, from what I know of "alternative colleges", her task of being a "turnaround administrator" may have been doomed from the start and bound to generate ill will in any case.

In any event, as the article I linked to pointed out, being bad at your job, an asshole, and/or making mistakes on a loan document are not crimes. To prove fraud, prosecutors need to prove that Jane Sanders knowingly defrauded the lenders, which is hard.

Yeah, definitely gonna keep an open mind now after the Republicans used the FBI to smear Hillary to great effect.

 

[davepoobond]

this would have been bernie's impeachment w/a republican congress

 

[Amir0x]

Obama's decision not to dismantle the filibuster (to give healthcare to millions of people and transform our economy) did not stop the Republicans from deciding to dismantle the filibuster (to give rich people tax cuts, at the cost of millions of lives).

No it didn't. The point is this is a trick trap conundrum. There was nothing he could have done that would have prevented the repeal. The only thing removing the filibuster would have done is made it even easier to repeal so that when the Republicans won they would have passed legislation that was even worse. Which, once again, contradicts his argument that he is mad about how easy Obama care is to repeal. That is the logic problem we are having. Can't have it both ways.

This is simply grandstanding with no thought to the consequences.

His obsession with being bipartisan made him an awful politician who got played over and over again (see: Garland) and he ended up pushing through an extremely flawed healthcare plan that is going to be easily dismantled in a few days.

Again nothing that occurred was due to any bipartisanship obsession. In fact he worked with Pelosi to think up a strategy that would allow a health care bill to be passed with zero Republican votes, which is exactly what happened. Stop rewriting history because it is inconvenient for your bullshit narrative.

Similarly, what would you have had him done to get Garland through? How was this connected to his "bipartisanship problem" and how did he get played exactly?

Learn how our government works for god's sake.

If he had pushed through single payer, he would have been a hero and a historic figure.

It is nice to dream up fairytale scenarios with no basis in reality. But worthless.

 

[ZOONAMI]

Fuck this is gonna take all the media heat off Trump for a bit.

Edit: thankfully it doesn't seem to be.

 

[Koomaster]

This 100% started coming up during the primaries and everyone brushed it aside. But I said at the time that if he won the primary, the GOP was ready to destroy him with this. Absolute silence.

Hope he's buried with this; maybe he and Trump can share a jail cell one day? xD

At the very least hopefully this explodes large enough so we don't have to hear about how 'Bernie would've won' from his cult anymore. *prayemoji*

 

[Crimson_Gold]

Fuck this is gonna take all the media heat off Trump for a bit.

Edit: thankfully it doesn't seem to be.

It won't. Sanders isn't gonna be able to do that. Fortunately he isn't the spearhead of the impeachment and Russia stuff. If he was, then this be a bigger issue

 

[Wall]

If they did break the law the should face the consequences, but it seems like it was just a bad use of money and she failed. And since this never really cought any legs until now (surprise, guess who is leading the DOJ) seems like a political hatchet job. I honostly wouldn't put it past Trump and his crew to try and re-open something on Hillary. That was my first thought when the framed firing Comey around a bad job in Clinton investigation.

Agreed. I think part of the reason the Sanders family is "lawyering up" right now is now is because they know that they have politically motivated people coming after them. They'd be fools not to.

 

[Toxi]

Fuck this is gonna take all the media heat off Trump for a bit.

Edit: thankfully it doesn't seem to be.

The amount this blows up is dependent on the left's ability to make a fuss about it because "optics".

See: The whole Obama paid speech nonsense.

 

[Ether_Snake]

This will just be another chapter in attacking the Democrat party from the "left", watch it.

 

[JesseEwiak]

Obama's decision not to dismantle the filibuster (to give healthcare to millions of people and transform our economy) did not stop the Republicans from deciding to dismantle the filibuster (to give rich people tax cuts, at the cost of millions of lives).

His obsession with being bipartisan made him an awful politician who got played over and over again (see: Garland) and he ended up pushing through an extremely flawed healthcare plan that is going to be easily dismantled in a few days.

If he had pushed through single payer, he would have been a hero and a historic figure. We have to live with the consequences of his feckless leadership for decades to come.

'President Obama and Senator X want to take away the health care you've worked for and replace it with government care that will make you wait in line behind illegal immigrants and criminal thugs with your children, all while raising middle class taxes to pay for it!"
,
The vast majority of people in this country have insurance provided by employers in this country that they like. And before you say, "but it'll be cheaper," most people don't see the true cost of their insurance plan. So, all of the sudden their taxes go up by thousands of dollars when they were only paying a hundred or two hundred dollars a month for insurance.

 

[O Canada Our Home and Native Land]

Bernie voter here. Go ahead FBI finish your investigation. I don't think they're going to find out anything other than that Jane Sanders was a poor administrator and she received a nice a parachute.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

Bernie voter here.

Lies. Canadians don't vote in the US election.

 

[R10Neymarfan]

The era of bipartisanship is over. Good riddance, what a naive idea anyway.

If Democrats can retake control, they better stack the SC with a few more Justices from Garland's stolen seat. I won't hold my breath though. I want the youngest most liberal Justice on the bench.

I say play dirty and "pack the court"

 

[Wall]

She sure made a helluva mistake.

I don't think anyone here is in a position to say one way or another. It sounds like J. Sanders hoped that the new campus would increase enrollment and donations. Obviously that didn't happen. The politico article only mentioned three specific donations that were overstated or had mistated terms in terms of when the money would come in.

Is there enough there to prove intentional fraud? I don't see how anyone here can know.

It definitely looks shady as all hell though and stupidly overambitious at the least.

From my experience with failed "alternative" colleges and other instituitions of higher education, it's not an uncommon failure arc, though. When those things go south, the culprit usually is overexpansion, and there is usually a lot of finger pointing and stories of shady behavior in the aftermath.

 

[water_wendi]

Well its a good thing nobody goes to prison for banking crimes. Oh wait, thats only if you are the bank. Anyway im not really concerned about this on just about every level. Will be interesting to see how things play out.

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

The argument has nothing to do with some grand plan. He said Obama was feckless because look how easy it has been for Republicans to dismantle Obamacare.

One, Obama cannot change Senate rules and it was clear from day one that option was off the table. Second, removing the rule would by definition had made it easier to repeal not harder. So his entire premise was false. He wasn't mad at Obama because of the ease of dismantling a Obamacare since his solution was to make it even easier to dismantle.

Similarly Republicans are having a tough time of it, even if it inevitably is removed. This was not an easy hill to climb, and because of the rules we have in place the bill - as horrendous as it now is - could be even worse. So removing the filibuster sounds nice, but it is absurdly short term thinking. Especially since power switches regularly in waves in this country.
,

I'm for removing the filibuster because, ultimately, the absurd rapid swings in policy will enhance the movement toward enacting real electoral reform that could encourage a multi-party system off the ground. Looking at France's recent election, Le Pen was undercut by the fact that conservatives had a real, conservative option in the first round of voting and so did not feel obligated to jump on board with a nationalistic crazy simply because she was the ONLY option to get conservative policy through. America has no such systems in place, and given our current president, it's pretty clear that abolishing the two-party system needs to be a top priority.

 

[Laiza]

At the very least hopefully this explodes large enough so we don't have to hear about how 'Bernie would've won' from his cult anymore.

Classy.

Nice to see folks are so hung up over election stunts that they're more willing to play for teams than they are to see actual progress being made.

Would be nice if folks could show more concern about making things better for all of us instead of fishing for "I told you so"s and being dickweeds about potential foibles. (Btw, I supported Hillary in the election after Sanders failed to get the nom and I avoided all the toxic bullshit rhetoric surrounding that primary, so seeing it repeated here is doubly irritating.)

Oh yeah, key word: potential. Because, as we all know, being under investigation is not a surefire sign that something actionable will be found. Not that people actually care about that. It's all about the GOTCHAs in this day and age. No time for nuance or research or proper verification. Gotta go with your gut feeling, right? No point in waiting for all the evidence.

Sigh.

 

[Clipjoint]

'President Obama and Senator X want to take away the health care you've worked for and replace it with government care that will make you wait in line behind illegal immigrants and criminal thugs with your children, all while raising middle class taxes to pay for it!"
,
The vast majority of people in this country have insurance provided by employers in this country that they like. And before you say, "but it'll be cheaper," most people don't see the true cost of their insurance plan. So, all of the sudden their taxes go up by thousands of dollars when they were only paying a hundred or two hundred dollars a month for insurance.

Messaging. "We're going to give Medicare for all!" is a pretty strong message when Medicare is so popular. The AHCA is a complete gutting of Medicaid in order to give tax cuts to the wealthy, it's extremely unpopular, and it's going to pass because Republicans understand how to legislate better than Democrats do. They know that tribalism will win out above all. While Obama allowed Lieberman to dictate every element of the bill, McConnell and Ryan have twisted arms back room with the threat of a Trump tweet against any member who doesn't fall in line.

The Republicans are playing chess while the Dems play checkers.

 

[Seventy70]

Classy.

Nice to see folks are so hung up over election stunts that they're more willing to play for teams than they are to see actual progress being made.

Would be nice if folks could show more concern about making things better for all of us instead of fishing for "I told you so"s and being dickweeds about potential foibles. (Btw, I supported Hillary in the election after Sanders failed to get the nom and I avoided all the toxic bullshit rhetoric surrounding that primary, so seeing it repeated here is doubly irritating.)

Oh yeah, key word: potential. Because, as we all know, being under investigation is not a surefire sign that something actionable will be found. Not that people actually care about that. It's all about the GOTCHAs in this day and age. No time for nuance or research or proper verification. Gotta go with your gut feeling, right? No point in waiting for all the evidence.

Sigh.

It's kind of funny seeing some people say we need to leave the election behind, but then they want to keep taking shots at Sanders. Also, I wonder if these people would actually let this go if Sanders was cleared or whether they would stick with "But it was still shady..."

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

Yeah, definitely gonna keep an open mind now after the Republicans used the FBI to smear Hillary to great effect.

The Republicans?

It wasn't just Republicans.

 

[boiled goose]

If Sanders used his position in a corrupt way that should be criticized.


Instead...

In this forum we see people using it as an excuse for corruption by others. :/


Uninformed knew jerk reaction.

Given the corruption exposed in places like flint with little action taken.... This seems like a bit of a hit piece

 

[nelsonroyale]

Ill advised if true, criminal even, but small fry on the political scale of corruption. I mean I think, if the allegations are true there absolutely should be a trial. On the other hand, the allegations, given the source seem politically motivated.

 

[vonStirlitz]

Wait until you see it with the Xbox Hugs and Kisses.

Is Bernie one of those Big Unnanounced Xbox Games?

 

[TarNaru33]

I'm not hating tho

Bernie was a great chance for gateway drugging America into civilization but even European social liberals (center/center right) agreed and supported the guy.

That's why the purity test thing didn't make sense to me. He ain't passing any socialist (worldwide left) purity test lmao gtfo with that shit.

If he and Jane broke the law and did what he is accused of doing then the law needs to do it's work obviously. Progress has never been dependent on individuals.

U.S politics is not "worldwide politics", you should easily know that. U.S liberal is also not European liberal. For U.S a person speaking of free public university, no minimum sentencing, single payer healthcare, more police liability, higher progressive taxes, and changing drug addiction to a health issue over a law issue are very much on the liberal spectrum of U.S politics. To try claiming he isn't liberal because European centrist support him is very ignorant to the state of U.S politics and government.

Too many of you were too focused on getting back at extreme Bernie supporters. We can not afford the Democrats going into a rift.

 

[jakonovski]

What the poop is going on? Are the Dems going to go to a meltdown now?

 

[dramatis]

U.S politics is not "worldwide politics", you should easily know that. U.S liberal is also not European liberal. For U.S a person speaking of free public university, no minimum sentencing, single payer healthcare, more police liability, higher progressive taxes, and changing drug addiction to a health issue over a law issue are very much on the liberal spectrum of U.S politics. To try claiming he isn't liberal because European centrist support him is very ignorant to the state of U.S politics and government.

Too many of you were too focused on getting back at extreme Bernie supporters. We can not afford the Democrats going into a rift.

Condom was a Sanders supporter, it's just that he's European so he also likes to portray Europe more favorably than the US. In the end it is about how little understanding there is of actual positions lol



I am not Sanders supporter, but I think the Sanders link is tenuous at best. However, Jane Sanders is definitely shady. Aside from the loan thing, the funneling of the college's money into her own daughter's woodworking school is just plain greed and self-interest.

 

[Condom]

U.S politics is not "worldwide politics", you should easily know that. U.S liberal is also not European liberal. For U.S a person speaking of free public university, no minimum sentencing, single payer healthcare, more police liability, higher progressive taxes, and changing drug addiction to a health issue over a law issue are very much on the liberal spectrum of U.S politics. To try claiming he isn't liberal because European centrist support him is very ignorant to the state of U.S politics and government.

Where did I claim he isn't liberal? My criticism is on those thinking having Sanders as a standard for a politician is 'purity testing' and unfair.

 

[Protein]

Yay Ben ghazi is back!

Bankghazi

 

[Whompa02]

What the poop is going on? Are the Dems going to go to a meltdown now?

No, but the current headlines certainly paint a picture to make you think that way.

 

[Koomaster]

Classy.

Nice to see folks are so hung up over election stunts that they're more willing to play for teams than they are to see actual progress being made.

Would be nice if folks could show more concern about making things better for all of us instead of fishing for "I told you so"s and being dickweeds about potential foibles. (Btw, I supported Hillary in the election after Sanders failed to get the nom and I avoided all the toxic bullshit rhetoric surrounding that primary, so seeing it repeated here is doubly irritating.)

Oh yeah, key word: potential. Because, as we all know, being under investigation is not a surefire sign that something actionable will be found. Not that people actually care about that. It's all about the GOTCHAs in this day and age. No time for nuance or research or proper verification. Gotta go with your gut feeling, right? No point in waiting for all the evidence.

Sigh.

I want things better for everyone, but Bernie was NOT the one to ever make that happen. He was always a detriment and distraction. The sooner people realize how horrible he is and he fades from the spotlight the better. And I never said he was 100% guilty here, but that potential is what I'm looking at and hope he is guilty and charged.

 

[hollomat]

Hopefully she gets charged. She completely screwed over all the students at the school and made out like a bandit. The only reason she got the loan was because Bernie used his senate seat.

 

[Resident_UA]

Emails!!!!!

 

[TurnipFritters]

What the poop is going on? Are the Dems going to go to a meltdown now?

That would be the intent, yes. Sanders, or a Sanders-anointed, is the front runner for 2020, and they're going to beat this drum from now until then. It's also not a coincidence this is gaining traction while there's a conversation about Democratic leadership and how Sanders should take the wheel.

It's up to the people to decide if they're gonna take the bait though. They probably will because this is America and exercising your right to legal counsel is considered an admission of guilt.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

You know who was clean? Jeb(!).

 

[The Technomancer]

That would be the intent, yes. Sanders, or a Sanders-anointed, is the front runner for 2020, and they're going to beat this drum from now until then. It's also not a coincidence this is gaining traction while there's a conversation about Democratic leadership and how Sanders should take the wheel.

It's up to the people to decide if they're gonna take the bait though.

Man it would be terrible, just terrible, if people allowed a bunch of GOP opposition and smears to convince them of the need to oust a prominent left wing politician from a leadership position

 

[SporeCrawler]

Hilldawg 2020