we have a great one right now.
Bernie can win in 2016
- Thread starter Dark_AnNiaLatOr
- Start date
- Status
we have a great one right now.
Let's see the receipts. They are legitimate. They are independent, and leftist. But not a joke. It's just an online news show that commentates on real news. They aren't journalists. Though, I have seen them do some great interviews, so maybe they are a bit of that too.
I agree, Obama has done well under the circumstances. And hopefully Obama supporters realize that he has campaigned for Bernie before.
Not new information... but I think it really helps paint the picture.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
Dude, just yesterday they claimed Cruz is not a citizen or some such bullshit and half the thread called them out on their joker status.
theignoramus
Member
But he can also help resolve the long enduring tensions between white working class and African Americans. Bernies proposals help average Americans of every stripe and he addresses alot of the same economic anxieties of working class whites as Trump, while acknowledging issues that bedevil the black community.
This why the Atlantic felt compelled to run an article a few weeks back about conservatives,alienated by Republican extremism, becoming Sanders supporters.
Yeah apart from the mass spying and sucking up to the banks and corporations and disastrous policy over Syria and Libya.
At least he's good on the most important issues, like gun control and gay marriage!
it is important to know your history.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
Didn't Sanders say Obama should be primaried in 2012?
Fried Food
Banned
hopefully he does. He is pro legal weed. All that matters.
Oh, they 'claimed' it. Right. You didn't watch the video. So, no receipts? Okay. I thought so. Anyway, not here to defend TYT.
I just think their format is entertaining, and there aren't a lot of news shows that will talk in depth about Bernie, which is why I shared one of their videos. That's kind of the point. He's not being taken seriously in the mainstream media. But hopefully he will be shortly.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
My receipt is half the thread calling them out. Are we all wrong and you're right or something?
Seems to be what Obama fans believed as well. Regardless, anyone is a better choice than Hillary, she's scum.
He talks favorably about him in some recent discussion about Obama. Here he calls him a friend and goes over some policies he disagrees with.
And here's Obama talking about Sanders a couple months ago. He's being careful not to make it sound like an endorsement though. Not that I know if he'd endorse Sanders, he probably owes a lot to the Clintons too.
It doesn't seem like there is any bad blood between them, though.
eBay Huckster
Member
Yeah, I wouldn't vote for Hilary Duff either.
teruterubozu
Member
Hilary Duff is scum? Harsh man.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
I'm not sure if you are talking about healthcare or the superior education bubble, but it doesn't matter; that's precisely my point.
Solutions don't have to be simple; they have to be better. An an NHS equivalent is much better than the half assed system America currently has, just like proper reform of highed education would be fundamentally better than keep throwing cash at the same broken system.
My concern with establishment Democrats is their penchant for "compromise" instead of airming for greatness when it comes to dealing with the biggest social issues that America has to face these days. Meanwhile, the GOP is unashamedly regressive and unruly, making negotiations extremely difficult and allowing conservatives to turn missteps into small victories.
As long as the GOP remains as it is, Democrats need to go in while finding a way to alienate the Republicans into a minoritary option if they really aim to restore the huge loses experienced by the working class over the past few decades. It is time to embrace radical measures.
Aim for greatness. Go big or go home. Any other option is perpetuating the status quo.
Even if Bernie never managed to materialize some of his more ambicious ideas due to Republicans and chickenshit Democrats, America would benefit immensely from a president that stopped being massively pro-corporate and dared to put an end to the current state of perpetual war. Something that won't happen under Clinton.
That alone would mean significant empowering of the democratic process by reducing the influence of corporate actors and billions of dollars being freed for useful things that can't be properly funded right now and would make a difference for the American people.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
Your sentiments are dangerous. How can Democrats afford to go big or go home when the Presidency is literally all they have right now? If they lose that, it's over. I don't know how I can stress this to people enough. A Supreme Court with two or more nominations by Trump or Cruz does more damage to your cause than any problem you have with Democrats.
55 Senate seats. 230+ House Seats. The Presidency. 31+ Governorships. A stronger Supreme Court majority. That's what this election could give Republicans. Think about that for a second. This forum is in denial when it comes to what's going on in this country. Republicans aren't going away or falling apart, they're one election away from having it all.
teruterubozu
Member
Feeling the Bern lately. Go Bern!
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
First things being first, I'd argue that the Democratic party would have to come to their senses and push for Bernie with all its strenght if he were nominated (big if). Sensible governance would need to be put in play after that while the party makes sure to alienate the GOP into a minoritary option that can't stump progress while mobilising the electorate during midterms. Then (and only then) would come the time for the big talk. I think Bernie is smart enough to realise this.
I'm not saying that Bernie should go Attila from day one, but radical (not significant; radical) change should be the aim down the road. Clinton, being the stablishment's candidate, won't be interested in making the kind of decisions I'd expect from Bernie at any point of her administration.
Could the Democratic party break the current stalemate? Nobody knows. Worst case scenario in the rare event of a Bernie administration, America would get four more years of similar governance on social issues with less warmonging and overt corporatism. Which would be a significant win in my book. That's how I see it anyway.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
Mobilizing the electorate in the midterms sounds easy but how can it be done? Alienating the GOP into a minority option sounds easy but it's a two party system and people swing over to the other option as soon as they are discontent with one side.
You've severely misjudged the American electorate. Democrats haven't even proven they can do well without Obama on the ballot. Who knows if Virginia, North Carolina, and other states will be competitive without high turnout among minorities that only Obama could provide. People have been fooled into thinking Democrats are just going to win easily in 2016 and that's not the case at all.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
At the end of the day, we are facing nothing but doubts. It's not like the GOP is not going to throw everything and the kitchen sink at Hillary; Obama made them lose their minds, but their hate towards the Clintons knows no bounds. I expect them to go outright feral if she wins the nom.
I think a Bernie administration would have to face huge challenges, but it's not like Clinton has it much better in my opinion. So with that in mind, I'd chose a non stablishment candidate capable of really shaking things up under the right circumstances. But maybe my personal circumstances are shaping my mind.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
This isn't even about who nominee is. People need to get a reality check about what's going on in this country. I've never seen such disconnects with Democrats thinking the Republicans are getting crushed while they're winning elections everywhere. Now they're sure that they won't win nationally in a Presidential but I'm not so sure.
Shake Appeal
Member
Calm down. It is the case. In its current incarnation, the GOP will struggle to win a national election in our lifetimes.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Now now, I would never reject that reality.
I just happen to believe that both Hillary and Bernie would face very similar hurdles. I don't really see either clearly outperforming the other nor (sadly) having a decisive effect in the midterms, making Bernie not only a more morally palatable pick in my personal opinion but also a valid strategic one.
Some people seem to believe that only a Hillary candidacy and administration could work. That's ok, but I politely disagree.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
Are you fucking kidding me? IN OUR LIFETIMES?
We haven't even seen 3 consecutive terms, which is rare itself, and you're talking about lifetimes? This is the denial and disconnect I'm talking about.
Giant Panda
Member
Bernie supporters are quickly becoming the tea party for the Democrats. They are more focused on ideological purity than getting things done.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Sanders supporters have raised $74mil with only 1.2% coming from maxed out donators, and made over four million calls so far this primary, with a hundred-thousand hours canvassing. Clinton supporters have apparently done jack shit, judging by the way their candidate is trending. I know which one of these looks like the base focused on getting things done.
UltimaPooh
Member
I'm all for getting things done... Like a better and cheaper healthcare system, creating a living wage, regulating the financial system, etc.
Don't think Hilary has any desire to do any of those things.
Why is Chelsea clinton trying to stump for her mother? Doesn't she know that being a hedge fund manager herself is absolutely the worst message she could send out? She's a hedge funder, her husband is a hedge funder, her mother is a follower of supply side corporatism and her father largely went with alan greenspan to deregulate the banks at the end of his term.
Why the eff would they think putting her out there is a good idea for optics!?
Why the eff would they think putting her out there is a good idea for optics!?
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
Well, in their current state I'm inclined to agree.
It's thinking like this that will lead the GOP straight to the White House. If not in 2016, then another year. People who think Bernie can easily beat somebody like Rubio are delusional.
And if you continue to pass on this statement, you eventually reach a point where many won't even bother to vote because lolGOP, which in turn, puts them right in the White House.
People in the Tea Party believe they're getting things done as well and truly believe that what they're doing is the right thing so just because you believe something to be the right option doesn't mean it'll actually get done. The problem is, none of those things you listed will actually happen soon, at least in the way you expect, because of this Congress.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Never mind that, I'm puzzled as to why Clinton thinks attacking Sanders over singlepayer plans in Democratic primary is going to go well; singleplayer is overwhelmingly supported by Democrats. Given her historical stance, it also makes her look more of a flip-flopper at the same time, too. Clinton's campaign people don't seem to know what they're doing.
My guess is that they were expecting Sanders to just wither away. When he was still going strong recently, and even taking huge gains in NH they probably thought that it's time to bite. All Hillary did thouh, was biting herself. She would've fared way better if she would've laid low on Bernie and let her fanbase do the biting.
Why do people think Sanders will be "torn apart" by Trump any more than Clinton will be?
Clinton will be slaughtered. And she will fumble defending herself.
At least Sanders actually believes what he says and can back it up. In my mind he's actually going to be quite capable of going toe-to-toe with Trump, point for point dismissing any of his criticism. Sanders will also seem quite sane, reasonable and electable compared to Trump, and that seems to be Sanders' biggest criticism, no? That he will seem like a cranky loon in the GE?
I'm sorry, but I don't buy it.
Clinton will be slaughtered. And she will fumble defending herself.
At least Sanders actually believes what he says and can back it up. In my mind he's actually going to be quite capable of going toe-to-toe with Trump, point for point dismissing any of his criticism. Sanders will also seem quite sane, reasonable and electable compared to Trump, and that seems to be Sanders' biggest criticism, no? That he will seem like a cranky loon in the GE?
I'm sorry, but I don't buy it.
eBay Huckster
Member
so am I still in the universe where the Democrats are the party that haven't won 3 elections in a row in nearly 70 years, or...?
They have. 1992, 1996 and 2000.
eBay Huckster
Member
I sure am glad Al Gore got primaried by John Kerry after inexplicably starting a war in Iraq, just in time for another one-term Bush.
(Yeah, "Florida's irregularities in 2000 were not what you'd expect from the Paragon of Democracy" is understating it, but that's a nonissue if Gore's campaign isn't full of myopic idiots who let the Bush campaign win New Hampshire four years after Clinton won by 10%. He lost.)
Well she has to make it seem bad so she can get people along with the thought process that its impossible for America and not a good thing when she gets into the Presidency, even though she's claimed the opposite in the past.
It seems like she is torn between her true self of saying whatever her donors tell her, and trying to balance her image as a "pragmatic but fair" democrat.
onadesertedisland
Member
At the national level the Democrats act as though the GOP is still controlled by rational members. It is most definitely not. The GOP has been overtaken by the Freedom Caucus. Even GOP members outside of this relatively small group are fearful of going against this populist movement. At this stage, compromise from the Democrats will be met not with equal movement from the right, but in the opposite direction. That small, tea-party friendly group, believes that compromise is a sign of weakness, not strength. They very much are willing to burn the house down as they believe it to be better to rebuild from dirt than give even an inch.
exactly. None of us on this board have seen a Democrat do this in our LIFETIME. Gotta go back to the 40's.
thelatestmodel
Junior, please.
Yup. Every single one of them comes across as a complete nutjob that could seriously harm the country.
Interfectum
Member
Yeah that's not true at all.
onadesertedisland
Member
But the tea party does punch above their weight class and gets quite a few things done by not compromising. Sure they have the benefit of having the right letter next to their name, but they get things done by threatening to have populist candidates take seats from incumbents. The Democrats should look at this model. Instead, the national Democratic party is gun shy, self defeatist, and believes that compromise is still a valid strategy. The Democrats need to court left single issue voters (marijuana, national healthcare, student loan relief, etc.) and support candidates at the local and state level that are anti-establishment and willing to cause waves because they aren't protecting a cushy incumbency. But, they won't. The Democrat party will push out candidates that appeal to center-right voters because the right squawks like a broken wheel and alienate the left.
gutter_trash
Banned
People need to realize that Sanders isn't a Democract but an Independent using the Democratic Primary to proppel himself.
The difference between Trump doing the same on the Republican side is that the Democratic Establishment have a clear party loyalist to select while the Republicans don't
Sanders has a life history of bashing the Democrats. The party doesn't forget
onadesertedisland
Member
After seeing the political landscape since 2010, I'd rather the Democrats model their behavior after a working strategy. The difference being the motive. The tea party is a astroturfed movement created by billionaire capitalists hell bent on buying politics. At least the left version might be able to fix some things about this country.
I don't think it's hyperbole to worry about this country's future when a racist billionaire is a front runner for one of the two viable political parties.
Days like these...
Have a Blessed Day
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1659220077700969&id=1560396217583356
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-how-bernie-sanders-can-beat-hillary-clinton/
Sanders support in California has jumped to 35% among latinos aka young liberal white diet racists.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-how-bernie-sanders-can-beat-hillary-clinton/
Sanders support in California has jumped to 35% among latinos aka young liberal white diet racists.
onadesertedisland
Member
And the national Democratic party has a recent history of getting their asses handed to them and tucking their tails between their legs and telling the far right "we're sorry" for campaigning at all.
Hohoho, what. He surely disagreed with democrats more tha once, but please, show me Bernie Sanders "bashing" the democratic party. Mind you, him as an independend worked pretty well with the democrats in his state who yielded to him as far as I understood.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked