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Berserk 2016 Anime |OT| Prelude to the CGI Boat

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Onemic

Member
I sorta wanna watch this show to see that horse.

What do you like about the show Melkezadek? Would you reocmmend it to someone that hasnt read the manga? Need some differing opinions in here.
 
When you say stuff like " I don't get the vitriol at all" and then have the reasons people don't like it explained to you only to follow up with "i don't care about that" and top it off with a "sorry you don't like it!" idk what kind of reaction you expect.

However you are right my post was a bit rude and i apologize for that. It is certainly okay to like the show.

Thank you for the apology. No, still don't get the vitriol. Are they fair criticisms? Absolutely and I share some of them (I'm not a fan of 3D work at all) But I don't understand how people see it as the "worst thing ever!!!111"

That is what I mean by vitriol. I don't think the flaws make it unwatchable.
 
I sorta wanna watch this show to see that horse.

What do you like about the show Melkezadek? Would you reocmmend it to someone that hasnt read the manga? Need some differing opinions in here.
They were just better off pulling the assets for the rape horse directly out of Bloodborne.
 

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
Thank you for the apology. No, still don't get the vitriol. Are they fair criticisms? Absolutely and I share some of them (I'm not a fan of 3D work at all) But I don't understand how people see it as the "worst thing ever!!!111"

That is what I mean by vitriol. I don't think the flaws make it unwatchable.

Its not unwatchable its just not very well made and sorry some people got aggressive with you but you are kind of ignoring the points I and several others have made saying its a pretty poor adaptation and a poor anime at that. You can still enjoy it and many do but compare its 3D artwork to even a show like Knights of Sidonia and you can see they really skimped out in several areas. Its not that its just CG art but its poorly done CG art. Combine that with the other issues people have and it kills the show for many.
 

Onemic

Member
Critics seem to love this series so far:

Writer Cecilia D'Anastasio applauded the opening episode in a review published by Kotaku, going so far as to state that it "already outshines the 90's original." Though, noting the series' sub-par animation quality, D'Anastasio concluded, "Berserk is not for the faint-hearted. But “The Branded Swordsman” proved to me that directors of fighting-heavy anime are making more of an effort to beautify and civilize the genre, doing justice to manga that showcases writing and ingenuity.
 

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
Critics seem to love this series so far:

Good lord don't listen to the Kotaku review. It sounds like the reviewer has never even experienced Berserk or watched an anime before with some of the comments she makes.
 
I sorta wanna watch this show to see that horse.

What do you like about the show Melkezadek? Would you reocmmend it to someone that hasnt read the manga? Need some differing opinions in here.

To be honest, of the interesting parts of the show to me, is the fact that they have rearranged so many parts from the manga. With the series being as old as it is, I wonder if they had gone this route in hopes to trim it up a bit (they're only doing 25ish episodes, no?)

Aside from 3D animation, I do like the actual line work so far. There are plenty of shots that I've seen that I'd like to draw, which hasn't happened in awhile for me.

If one hasn't read the manga, I guess it could be slightly confusing. If you've seen the movie then it shouldn't be too bad, but I always advice reading the manga for better context. I don't even feel the movies captured the weight of everything properly.
 
Its not unwatchable its just not very well made and sorry some people got aggressive with you but you are kind of ignoring the points I and several others have made saying its a pretty poor adaptation and a poor anime at that. You can still enjoy it and many do but compare its 3D artwork to even a show like Knights of Sidonia and you can see they really skimped out in several areas. Its not that its just CG art but its poorly done CG art. Combine that with the other issues people have and it kills the show for many.

I'm not ignoring the point, I just don't agree with them. Stuff like art, music, sound, is all subjective so what is there to address? The points with the story being rearranged could be an issue if it disturbs any of the major plot points, but so far I haven't seen anything yet that does unless I'm just not seeing it? I don't mind adaptations deviating from the source material, so again, that's not really a point to debate or not. I don't watch a ton of anime, so those comparisons don't really mean much to me at all. Personally, I don't like any 3D I've seen in any new anime, including the newer Berserk movies.
 

Onemic

Member
Good lord don't listen to the Kotaku review. It sounds like the reviewer has never even experienced Berserk or watched an anime before with some of the comments she makes.

The IGN review is also extremely positive. They gave it an 8.5 iirc.

I guess I'll find out for myself later today.

To be honest, of the interesting parts of the show to me, is the fact that they have rearranged so many parts from the manga. With the series being as old as it is, I wonder if they had gone this route in hopes to trim it up a bit (they're only doing 25ish episodes, no?)

Aside from 3D animation, I do like the actual line work so far. There are plenty of shots that I've seen that I'd like to draw, which hasn't happened in awhile for me.

If one hasn't read the manga, I guess it could be slightly confusing. If you've seen the movie then it shouldn't be too bad, but I always advice reading the manga for better context. I don't even feel the movies captured the weight of everything properly.

Im gonna try and pick up a copy of the first volume from my local comic shop after work today. Ive watched the 90s anime series though. What is the anime supposed to cover exactly? Just one arc like the 90s version?

I just dont want a situation where watching it ruins the experience of reading the manga.
 

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
I'm not ignoring the point, I just don't agree with them. Stuff like art, music, sound, is all subjective. I don't watch a ton of anime, so those comparisons don't really mean much to me at all. Personally, I don't like any 3D I've seen in any new anime, including the newer Berserk movies.

Well as someone who watches a decent amount of anime this production is about as amateur hour as it gets and that is not subjective. They really cheaped out in a ton of areas and I am by no means exaggerating that claim that many of the backgrounds look like they were yanked out of a PS2 game. They are so blurry and undefined its actually a little embarrassing that they put it out like that.

You can refer to subjective all you want but I'll just state its not subjective that the art comes nowhere close to the manga. Its nowhere subjective that they are really chopping up the story because they cut entire arcs and are putting things together piece meal. Its not subjective that the animation is of poor quality because it is, its got barely enough frames to look as good as somebody using a flip book to animate.
 
All subjective and I'm sorry you feel that way. I'm a Berserk fan and I'm enjoying. I'm allowed to express that without being attacked.

Poor CG and sound effects are definitely not subjective. They're objectively sub-standard.

This thread is going off the rails. People shouldn't be attacked for enjoying the show and on the other hand completely incompetent praise also shouldn't go without rebuttals.

When the sort of stupid drivel that IGN and Kotaku have put out regarding this show is somehow seen as competent and respectable writing by those sites' editors I figure we're hitting an all time low in the quality of mainstream publications' writing about anime. No need to sink as low as them. Having standards is ok.
 

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
Im gonna try and pick up a copy of the first volume from my local comic shop after work today. Ive watched the 90s anime series though. What is the anime supposed to cover exactly? Just one arc like the 90s version?

I just dont want a situation where watching it ruins the experience of reading the manga.

The original anime covers the very first story of the first volume with the Snake Baron and then there is another black swordsman arc that was not adapted that features another apostle known as the Slug Count. The original anime picks up right after that and covers something like the first 12 to 13 volumes. This anime covers volumes 15 to 16 up to maybe the early 20's.
 
Well as someone who watches a decent amount of anime this production is about as amateur hour as it gets and that is not subjective. They really cheaped out in a ton of areas and I am by no means exaggerating that claim that many of the backgrounds look like they were yanked out of a PS2 game. They are so blurry and undefined its actually a little embarrassing that they put it out like that.

You can refer to subjective all you want but I'll just state its not subjective that the art comes nowhere close to the manga. Its nowhere subjective that they are really chopping up the story because they cut entire arcs and are putting things together piece meal. Its not subjective that the animation is of poor quality because it is, its got barely enough frames to look as good as somebody using a flip book to animate.

None of that is bad on its own. Again, you can throw your weight around with your animation expertise, but all art is subjective. Just because it doesn't look like the manga doesn't mean it looks awful. Just because the story is rearranged doesn't mean it's terrible. And I've already stated I don't like the 3D animation.
 

Grudy

Member
The original anime covers the very first story of the first volume with the Snake Baron and then there is another black swordsman arc that was not adapted that features another apostle known as the Slug Count. The original anime picks up right after that and covers something like the first 12 to 13 volumes. This anime covers volumes 15 to 16 up to maybe the early 20's.
I'll miss your eclipse-fun-time-with-Guts avatar HStalion
 
The hand drawn art in the manga is beyond beautiful and detailed. I never expected the anime to come close to it. That being said, I suppose it's easier for me to look past that. I've been enjoying the show. I think they've done a fairly good job considering the budget is fairly low from what I've heard. Just doesn't bother me that much.
 

Siegcram

Member
None of that is bad on its own. Again, you can throw your weight around with your animation expertise, but all art is subjective. Just because it doesn't look like the manga doesn't mean it looks awful. Just because the story is rearranged doesn't mean it's terrible. And I've already stated I don't like the 3D animation.
I just don't understand how you can expect anyone to seriously consider your position when it's so utterly focused on your own perspective.

The intent and impact of art is subjective. The quality of execution can be at least evaluated somewhat objectively. And it's bottom of the barrel in this case.
 

Grudy

Member
I'd say the quality of the drawn art is fine, even some of the 3D models aren't so bad. There are some scenes where they shine through and I noticed some stuff like reflections on shiny armor which are nice touches.

But the animation is downright abhorrent.
 
You can't just use "Everything is subjective" as a way to shut down criticism. If you don't want to see people disliking something you like, it would be better to not look at online discussions about it.

So is the original 97' anime only available on dvd? Its not on Hulu or something? I know its not on Crunchyroll.

There's a very nice looking BD in Japan, but at least in the US it's not licensed for streaming or discs.
 
I just don't understand how you can expect anyone to seriously consider your position when it's so utterly focused on your own perspective.

The intent and impact of art is subjective. The quality of execution can be at least evaluated somewhat objectively. And it's bottom of the barrel in this case.

How can there be any discussion when it's already been decided that it's garbage?

People are telling me that I shouldn't enjoy this work because it's objective bad by some "standard".

I'm sorry, but I just don't buy into that nonsense. It's fine that others no not like it, but I'm not going to agree that it's "bottom of the barrel" if I simply do not agree with that statement.

You can't just use "Everything is subjective" as a way to shut down criticism. If you don't want to see people disliking something you like, it would be better to not look at online discussions about it.



There's a very nice looking BD in Japan, but at least in the US it's not licensed for streaming or discs.

It's not me shutting down criticism. Trying to make it out like the art is "objectively bad" is inherently shutting down any argument for it being good. I don't think it's bad. I'm not going around saying it's objectively good and that others' people opinion is flawed and they have no standards.
 

Siegcram

Member
How can there be any discussion when it's already been decided that it's garbage?

People are telling me that I shouldn't enjoy this work because it's objective bad by some "standard".

I'm sorry, but I just don't buy into that nonsense. It's fine that others no not like it, but I'm not going to agree that it's "bottom of the barrel" if I simply do not agree with that statement.
The budget is tiny for this project. Frame rates are measurable. Textures are comparable.

Those are the standards applied here. You are welcome to cross your arms in the name of the absolute subjectivity of any and all art, but the production values of this show aren't really up for discussion.
 
The budget is tiny for this project. Frame rates are measurable. Textures are comparable.

Those are the standards applied here. You are welcome to cross your arms in the name of the absolute subjectivity of any and all art, but the production values of this show aren't really up for discussion.

I'm sorry but where did I say anywhere that this wasn't a budgeted project? Where did I make any claims on the brilliant animation?

With the same logic, people look rather silly complaining about funky animation and suspects "textures" when the budget is, by your own words, tiny.

Seems strange.
 

Onemic

Member
Remember guys, everyone said Dragonball Supers art and animation looked downright terrible and now people cant stop talking about how good the show is. Maybe the same will apply here.
 

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
I'm sorry but where did I say anywhere that this wasn't a budgeted project? Where did I make any claims on the brilliant animation?

With the same logic, people look rather silly complaining about funky animation and suspects "textures" when the budget is, by your own words, tiny.

Seems strange.

So because the budget is small we can't call out the effects of that tiny budget?

Remember guys, everyone said Dragonball Supers art and animation looked downright terrible and now people cant stop talking about how good the show is. Maybe the same will apply here.

Super is a still a pretty bad show if you ask me. Its better than DBGT but that isn't saying much.
 
So because the budget is small we can't call out the effects of that tiny budget?

I'm not the one who brought the budget into it. He's the one who pointed it out so show points of objectivity on it being "bad". If we're going to use that as a bullet point, then it seems strange the criticize it as harshly as other productions. (note: I don't agree with that being a reason for it being "bad" or find it a reason to dismiss the flaws. I just found it an odd point to make)
 

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
I'm not the one who brought the budget into it. He's the one who pointed it out so show points of objectivity on it being "bad". If we're going to use that as a bullet point, then it seems strange the criticize it as harshly as other productions.

Why is it strange? Small budget usually makes for weak animation, art and so on unless its some labor of love where money isn't the issue. That's it. You seem to be taking an affront to the fact we're pointing this stuff out as reasons why a lot of people aren't satisfied.
 

Siegcram

Member
I'm sorry but where did I say anywhere that this wasn't a budgeted project? Where did I make any claims on the brilliant animation?

With the same logic, people look rather silly complaining about funky animation and suspects "textures" when the budget is, by your own words, tiny.

Seems strange.
I don't know it seems apt to complain about things that are, well, there. Like many people questioned why you would trust this staff with a Berserk adaptation in the first place. So if anything, the criticism has been consistent.

But even when considering the small budget, you can do a lot to hide it. But that requires effort in direction,framing and audio-visual design. And this show is severly lacking in those areas as well, especially sound. The sounds the dragonslayer makes are completely divorced from physics and reality.

And again, this doesn't even cover the narrative problems the pacing and odd storyboarding present.
 
Why is it strange? Small budget makes for weak animation, art and so on. That's it. You seem to be taking an affront to the fact we're pointing this stuff out as reasons why a lot of people aren't satisfied.

Not really. If you're going to suggest that the animation is limited because of tiny budget, that's a fair thing to say. That has fuck all to do with the art, which I think is fine. The animation, I don't think is fine. I've said this many, many times.

You keep seem to be trying to turn my argument into an argument where I can't appreciate others not liking it. I haven't criticized anyone's taste or told them they were blind and that their opinion and standards were low.

The flaws which I feel are damned obvious (like the 3D animation) are definitely off putting. Again, I just don't think it's worthy of the vitriol its receiving. That's it.

EDIT: No, I'm not wasting my time arguing with people over an anime. Not happening. Out.
 

convo

Member
From reddit threads to crunchy roll comments and gamefaqs topics, it seems the general consensus seem to be that of a positive one.

Ideally this should be because Berserk is so good that it even makes a good impression when viewed through this adaptation. The other more realistic answer is that high standards are an illusion and people can enjoy whatever. Or it can be both and people could enjoy Berserk even if it were a series of paintings done by monkeys on a zoo wall.
 

SolVanderlyn

Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Who is attacking you? Sounds like you're getting defensive because I'm trying to explain to you the seemingly hard to get idea that a lot of people are disappointed by what they see as a poor adaptation. Yes you like it but too many the rather glaring issues are too much to take and I can't blame them. If it was just one thing like poor art or lack luster animation but everything else was solid I don't think people would care as much but right now there are severe issues for many on just about every level.
You and others are being very severe in your opinions. I get that you feel strongly about it but you are very much parading your opinion over his. Not attacking per say, but close to it.
 

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
You and others are being very severe in your opinions. I get that you feel strongly about it but you are very much parading your opinion over his. Not attacking per say, but close to it.

Yeah and? Its a forum for discussion. I wasn't calling him names or anything else. I stated my point in a straight forward fashion and he didn't seem to care for me doing that. That's on him as nothing I said was a stretch, a lie or anything of the sort. I even said it was cool if he and others liked it but I was still going to call out its rather obvious issues. Not sure what else I should be talking about in a thread about the Berserk anime...
 

Moonkid

Member
Still haven't gotten around to watching the second episode, I give up lol. Maybe I'll binge watch it when it's over with some mates.
 
EDIT: No, I'm not wasting my time arguing with people over an anime. Not happening. Out.
On the whole, anime fans are awful and not worth swallowing the salt.

The ratking of western otaku will herald the second coming with something like Attack on Titan or Sword Art Online, while immediately spouting dismissive memes towards 'When Marnie Was There' or even 'Erased' - over something as bizarre as an unsightly spring/autumn ship not coming to fruition by the end.

The order of insufferable fandoms go, from most generally tolerant to most prone to obnoxiously steam roll anyone who dares has lived a different life to produce a different point of view:


  • Gamers (excluding twitch or the obvious boogiemen)
  • Film fans who follow are obcessed with box office performance as a metric of quality
  • Music snobs
  • Literal pearls rolled in front of some indignant swine
  • Anime fans
  • Steven Universe fans (who only get the bottom slot because the fandom literally tried to kill a human being)
The very premise of sharing your opinion on a message board is based upon respectful disagreement, but jesus christ that's some gamefaq-caliber ad-hominem attacks last page.

That said, I love how divisive this series has been. Even if the series was 2D, that horse would be a pretty wild introduction to the world for someone who is experiencing the world for the first time.
 

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
On the whole, anime fans are awful and not worth swallowing the salt.

The ratking of western otaku will herald the second coming with something like Attack on Titan or Sword Art Online, while immediately spouting dismissive memes towards 'When Marnie Was There' or even 'Erased' - over something as bizarre as an unsightly spring/autumn ship not coming to fruition by the end.

The order of insufferable fandoms go, from most generally tolerant to most prone to obnoxiously steam roll anyone who dares has lived a different life to produce a different point of view:


  • Gamers (excluding twitch or the obvious boogiemen)
  • Film fans who follow are obcessed with box office performance as a metric of quality
  • Music snobs
  • Literal pearls rolled in front of some indignant swine
  • Anime fans
  • Steven Universe fans (who only get the bottom slot because the fandom literally tried to kill a human being)
The very premise of sharing your opinion on a message board is based upon respectful disagreement, but jesus christ that's some gamefaq-caliber ad-hominem attacks last page.

That said, I love how divisive this series has been. Even if the series was 2D, that horse would be a pretty wild introduction to the world for someone who is experiencing the world for the first time.

Perhaps you should add yourself to that list as the person who comes into a thread to make a broad generalization about a group of people that has been made a million times before and act like you said something profound and insightful when you're just parroting the same tired meme's about fan groups. That sound about right?
 
Well the direction was a huge improvement in this episode. I thought ep 1 & 2 were a fucking mess but this one is much easier to follow. I'm glad too that they didn't shy away from showing Farnese's masochistic side, I was kind of expecting them to cut that. Apart from the CG still being god awful, the show is definitely getting better I think.
 
Perhaps you should add yourself to that list as the person who comes into a thread to make a broad generalization about a group of people that has been made a million times before and act like you said something profound and insightful when you're just parroting the same tired meme's about fan groups. That sound about right?
I do have a full awareness that I'm inherently calling the kettle black, yes. Despite the broad strokes in that post, I feel reticent to specifically shoot down a specific persons opinion and personal sense of taste with the same silencing fervor that this thread has taken.
 

Grudy

Member
I do have a full awareness that I'm inherently calling the kettle black, yes. Despite the broad strokes in that post, I feel reticent to specifically shoot down a specific persons opinion and personal sense of taste with the same silencing fervor that this thread has taken.

Having Gamers at the top of your list tells me you haven't seen Final Fantasy fans on some other sites arguing over which number was the best :p
 
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