True Savior
Member
One of my favorite fanart is Zodd kneeling to Griffith
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Berserk |OT| - Big men, bigger swords, OFF THE BOAT - Berserk #344 24/6/2016
- Thread starter EvilKatarn
- Start date
JadedWriter
Member
That was probably the first scene where I was like "Something is not right here" when it came to Griffith 2.0 then it just got weirder and weirder every time he showed up on screen. Of course the artist made damn sure that Griffith's ass was perfect.One of my favorite fanart is Zodd kneeling to Griffith
The best thing about new griffith is that he honestly does seem like a savior figure. Internal Apostle cage fights aside, it is basically a paradise that keeps monsters away, the people prosperous, and the apostles on peaceful terms with the citizenry they've otherwise used as cattle up until now. Griffith is even handling resistance to him with grace, letting the fact that Rickert slapped him in view of his knights and wife go (since I'm pretty sure Lucas sent Rakshas after Rickert)
It's like if Hitler came back to life and he became leader for world peace and human rights, and actually made significant measurable strides in bettering the world. It would be so creepy to actually see undisputable acts of good from one of our culture's personifications of evil. And that's what Griffith has been, so him just setting up the kingdom he always wanted to be an actual utopia is more creepy than if he were secretly eating babies or whatever. It's possible that he's setting something horrible up, but it's also possible he's not. Being the best fucking king Midland has ever seen has always been his goal and....well, there it is. His dream made manifest. What would he possibly throw it away for?
It's like if Hitler came back to life and he became leader for world peace and human rights, and actually made significant measurable strides in bettering the world. It would be so creepy to actually see undisputable acts of good from one of our culture's personifications of evil. And that's what Griffith has been, so him just setting up the kingdom he always wanted to be an actual utopia is more creepy than if he were secretly eating babies or whatever. It's possible that he's setting something horrible up, but it's also possible he's not. Being the best fucking king Midland has ever seen has always been his goal and....well, there it is. His dream made manifest. What would he possibly throw it away for?
JadedWriter
Member
Yeah Griffith isn't exactly an evil entity, he commands a horde of war demons and has them fight to the death in arena fights, but if they didn't do that they'd just be running amok eating people. I mean Guts can think of him as the "bad guy" all the fuck he wants, yes he has legitimate reasons for this view, but Griffith is impacting the world in a lot more meaningful ways than Guts is. Guts is pretty much just trekking across the globe level grinding like it's disc 3 in Final Fantasy VII. Griffith is getting shit done and the world is benefitting from it. He slaughtered a demon god, brought magic back to the world on a grand scale...which has brought back numerous ungodly monsters, but I guess that's what Guts and crew is for. They're the garbagemen.
True Savior
Member
He is evil. When a sacrifice is made they are "imbued with evil". He is a demonic creature whom will help to bring the age of darkness. That now, Falconia has been a (false) beacon of hope for some people, it is merely another accessory in the objective of the Idea.
JadedWriter
Member
Would it be safe to assume Griffith is nothing more than "Pretty Lex Luthor" or would that be too broad a stroke for the guy?
RadioHeadAche
Member
Speaking of weird, Neo Griffith eating cake just seemed bizarre to me because I pictured Femto eating cake. That's just weird.
True Savior
Member
How would you define Lex Luthor?
JadedWriter
Member
I consider Lex to be a power mad individual. Hates Superman and wants as much power as possible granted you never see Griffith trying to rob banks and stuff like that since it's pretty much below Griffith. I'm fully expecting Veelk to pop in here and correct me with a massive Veelk.
I still find it funny that Charlotte made damn sure Griffith ate, it was quite hard for me to believe Griffith 2.0 gets hungry.
Nah, those are the most common interpretations of his characters, but those characteristics take different forms through different authors.
Again, I wonder if Griffith is thinking "Oh my god, this bitch is getting eaten by my crystal dragon first chance I get" or if he genuinely appreciates her on some level, like the fact that she is the ideal princess he always wanted with his ideal kingdom. It's impossible to tell as he's eating her goddamn cake.
JadedWriter
Member
I know he rescued her to get the people behind him cause well yeah he needed a damn princess. Charlotte's the broad he was originally tortured over that began the events of the Eclipse. I'm pretty sure he's used to manipulating her, but does Griffith really need to manipulate Charlotte? I really don't think so. Charlotte is Griffiths Tumblr fan girl, she embroidered fan art of the dude for years while she was imprisoned in a castle. I actually think Charlotte is the only person Griffith doesn't have to manipulate, she does it willingly cause she cares for the guy/thing so I think on that front Griffith has some form of appreciation for her or at the very least I'd like to think so. I think if something ever did happen to Griffith Charlotte would be the person to throw herself in front of a sword to protect him like Shishio's GF from Kenshin.
Yumi was in an honest relationship with Shishio, where he didn't hide his ideals from her and she understood him as he is. Charlotte clearly doesn't know the things Griffith has done over the eclipse and that he is a sociopath. She is literally exposed to nothing but the good side of his personality. But as much as a tumblr fangirl she is, she has shown a measure of integrity and courage through the manga, so I find it atleast likely if she ever found out about the skeletons in his closet, she'd cut her ties at the first realistic opportunity to do so.
JadedWriter
Member
But hasn't she shown those acts of courage while shouting "save me Griffith" in the process though? I distinctly remember her doing that while she was fighting off her crazy ass dad. Is she supposed to shout "save me Griffith" while fighting off Griffith as well? Also where would she even go if she did break away from Griffith? You think she's going to track down Rickert? I honestly think if it ever came to that he'd have his crystal dragon step on her and fire off some kind of PR message to Falconia about her disappearance. The woman idolizes Griffith granted her Griffith and actual Griffith are two very very very different versions of Griffith. Her Griffith is a fantastical fairy tale, which became obvious when you saw how she drew the dude. Griffith is her angel, him rescuing her from the clutches of her rapist dad that trapped her in a castle probably put the fairy tale vibe into over drive. I honestly think if she did find out she'd think it was a fabrication and just keep her thoughts on Griffith the fantasy.
That she uses Griffith as a source for her integrity doesn't diminish that she is still doing these things of her own volition. Hell, when Griffith was being tortured, she's the one who insisted on coming an contributed to his rescue even though she didn't have the typical skills that would be requisite to storm the jail. Girls got guts, and I can respect that. Her finding out the truth would be painful, but nothing suggests that she would self delude herself for her own convenience. She just hasn't come across as being that dumb.
And while she idolizes Griffith because she's ignorant of his darker nature, it's hard to put that on her when everyone in Midgard but Guts and Rickert do the same.
And while she idolizes Griffith because she's ignorant of his darker nature, it's hard to put that on her when everyone in Midgard but Guts and Rickert do the same.
JadedWriter
Member
You are definitely right about the last part. Nobody knows how fucked up Griffith is, dude's just the hawk of light to everybody else. It's like if Obama was Ted Bundy when he's not in the Oval Office. We'll never find that shit out, just like the everyday citizen of Midgard wouldn't. Charlotte being instrumental to Griffith's escape is one change in the manga and movies I didn't enjoy at all. They pretty much took away one of her crowning moments for no reason at all. I know the woman isn't stupid, but she's always painted as some weak thing, which she isn't.
Honestly, it'd be nice if we see her actually do something as the princess of this new kingdom. Like, she starts a movement to give women more rights in this city, so that they don't risk suffering the kind of mistreatment her father tried to enforce on her. He only got away with that because he's the king and therefore the rightful owner of her by laws of medieval society. "Griffith, honey, I love that you're happy doing you're kingly thing, but there are some things that should be changed. I'm gonna go do that, okay?" And I don't imagine the plights, or lack thereof, of random women are of any concern to him so long as they continue to worship him, so I doubt he'd care or even be disappointed that Charlotte is taking an active role in his city.
JadedWriter
Member
Oh god Griffith probably has posters plastered around Falconia saying "Worship me or I'll rape you. I'm a god, I can track you down. Don't test me." So far it just seems like he's just doing his best to keep everybody in check, but it wouldn't surprise me if women still weren't to respected in that place and yeah her having initiative on that front would make some sense.
In these kinds of settings, it's difficult to find a place anywhere where women aren't second class citizens, but it's happened. There were exclusive colleges for women in the...16th century, iirc, though I can't remember what it was. Hell, you could say that women were actually more respected in the 14th and 15th centuries before the luxuries of aristocratic british society got started, because before then women had a working function whereas afterwards they had servants to do everything for them and were prohibited from taking their own practices.
But historical precedence doesn't matter. It's fiction. Charlotte is a courageous and compassionate woman, and if not intelligent, then certainly not dumb, and now in one of the biggest seats of power in the entirety of Midgard. If she wants to enact some kind of change, she should be able to, and writing her as willing to costs Miura nothing and estasblishes yet another reason why Griffith putting on this masquerade is so tragic, since whatever he's actually doing, he's going to fuck over actual progress.
Edit: and in fairness to Miura, he's not really failing to repressent women. In our opening scenes of Falconia, we see women working the fields along with men, buying and selling in the market with men, Luca is running her own business (Luca herself is an anomaly in Berserk. She's a capable, compassionate, and upbeat leader that actually does shit. She's a minor character, but I'm glad she's out there, working her magic). The only real segregation that I see is that any military enforcement seems exclusive to men, but on the other hand, he seems to have elected Sonia as the head priestess of his church, so women are in clear positions of political power.
But historical precedence doesn't matter. It's fiction. Charlotte is a courageous and compassionate woman, and if not intelligent, then certainly not dumb, and now in one of the biggest seats of power in the entirety of Midgard. If she wants to enact some kind of change, she should be able to, and writing her as willing to costs Miura nothing and estasblishes yet another reason why Griffith putting on this masquerade is so tragic, since whatever he's actually doing, he's going to fuck over actual progress.
Edit: and in fairness to Miura, he's not really failing to repressent women. In our opening scenes of Falconia, we see women working the fields along with men, buying and selling in the market with men, Luca is running her own business (Luca herself is an anomaly in Berserk. She's a capable, compassionate, and upbeat leader that actually does shit. She's a minor character, but I'm glad she's out there, working her magic). The only real segregation that I see is that any military enforcement seems exclusive to men, but on the other hand, he seems to have elected Sonia as the head priestess of his church, so women are in clear positions of political power.
JadedWriter
Member
Knowing this thing Charlotte will enact some type of change and then Griffith will just enact his master plan and set the place on fire or something, or just sacrifice her to achieve his final final form or something.
Probably. It's just that no one fucking knows what that could be. He has his kingdom. There is no established higher goal, this WAS the goal. It'd be easy to believe Griffith would burn it to the ground to get what he wants....but he already has it. So...what? Is this real? Is he actually just intending to sit there and be a good king? And if he is, do we just pardon him for his horrific crimes before this?
JadedWriter
Member
His only true crimes are raping Caska and then sacrificing a bunch of ragamuffin mercenaries. This is pretty much just micro evil for macro good. It's only really evil cause for starters it's rape, you kind of don't cross that line and still be a good guy and it permanently effected Guts the protagonist of the story. Is there really even a "good" guy in Berserk? It's only really Guts cause of the framing of the story and Guts hasn't really done that many deplorable acts outside of being a lovable death machine with a heart of...bronze?
Well, he was also a merc who slaughtered hundreds (which wouldn't NOT lead to collateral and evidence of this is when Guts killed that kid on the mission he sent him on). He himself admitted in his dream sequence that he feels responsible for the deaths of everyone who dies on his campaign, yet still chooses to do it. And you got it backwards, he sacrificed his band and THEN raped Caska.
The point isn't to pass moral judgement on him necessary, but consider the fact that ever evil action we've seen him do was for the purpose of achieving his kingdom. How that he has that, what would be his reason to be evil?
The point isn't to pass moral judgement on him necessary, but consider the fact that ever evil action we've seen him do was for the purpose of achieving his kingdom. How that he has that, what would be his reason to be evil?
JadedWriter
Member
That is a good question though. His end goal was getting his kingdom, which he now has, but what's he going to do that would keep his mind busy? Griffith is clearly a high aspirations type so I can't see him being pleased with sitting up in Falconia and eating Charlotte's cake for too much longer.
But what else could he possibly achieve? He's reality warping powers. The only thing that stronger than him is the idea of evil itself, and maybe some of the other gods that Sheirke mentions. What could he possibly want that he can't achieve with a snap of his fingers?
JadedWriter
Member
That's for Miura to figure out. Maybe he sets out to win back Rickert's respect, but what the fuck would he even need that shit for now that I think about it. Unless Griffith's story is now complete for the time being and we just see him legislating.
And arranging the assassination of the Queen and several high ranking government officials.
JadedWriter
Member
In self defense.
Tricky I Shadow
Banned
LOL, guilty! I need my Berserk fix and that place is a great source for that. It's surprisingly active!
Serpico was told that
Farnese is his half-sister,
JadedWriter
Member
Ok well that makes her getting all naked and hugging the guy slightly less creepy, but she's still pretty creepy, though less so now given the fact that she's not a closeted religious nut job that pleasures herself to bags on fire.
Isn't he kind of responsible for the huge increase of all kinds of demons & monsters in the world? He might be a lovable king after he creates Falconia but all the demons wrecking shit post-Eclipse is still mostly on him.
And again, I have to emphasize this, the whole "rampaging mercenary across Midland" thing might have been perfectly legal, but that didn't make it moral. And that's not just me talking from an outside cultural perspective, it's something that Griffith admits that he's horrified by this actions as a mercenary commander. Griffith knows he's doing wrong long before the whole eclipse thing has happened.
Edit: and that kind of moral insight almost makes it worse. Guts doesn't care about the hundreds of lives he's destroyed because he doesn't concern himself with anyone that is outside his group. He's a simple guy whose entire life was based on fighting to survive, so he sees nothing wrong with killing that many people. Neither does Caska. Griffith is the only one who actually felt the weight of the murder's he's committed, but he presses on anyway for selfish reasons.
Edit: and that kind of moral insight almost makes it worse. Guts doesn't care about the hundreds of lives he's destroyed because he doesn't concern himself with anyone that is outside his group. He's a simple guy whose entire life was based on fighting to survive, so he sees nothing wrong with killing that many people. Neither does Caska. Griffith is the only one who actually felt the weight of the murder's he's committed, but he presses on anyway for selfish reasons.
JadedWriter
Member
Isn't Guts' kill count probably like a thousand or so people by now? I will admit that only Griffith seemed to want an end to some of these wars, Guts on the other hand only knew how to live by slaughtering folks. He didn't seek any kind of end to that. I will admit I don't think he likes having people, mostly the innocent and defenseless hurt around him, but I don't think most people are too high up on his priority list. He loves Caska and respected the lives of the people that he served with, but I think outside of that he didn't care. Griffith cared about all people, even the ones he didn't even know the names of...as long as they didn't rape him of course.
That's what Guts and crew are for, they take out the supernatural garbage. I mean that stuff was there before Griffith took power, he just happened to cause more of it, which gets killed off by Guts and Co any way.
This is the kind of stuff I was talked about when I spoke about Ozai in the Avatar thread. It's not about passing judgement on Guts morally, but he doesn't consider the weight of the thousands of lives he's shattered because he had nothing better to do than swing a sword at stuff. Granted, he's rarely gone out seeking a fight than having one brought to him, but him living the life he's lead has resulted in him having an apathy to the deaths of anyone who isn't in his tribe that has lead to him having killed hundreds of people. And he doesn't seem to acknowledge it except for that one time he killed a kid.
Gut's is one of the most successful killers of all time, having spent the first half of his life slaughtering people for cash. I understand why he is like this, and I don't have any desire for him to moral up. He's protrayed as a three dimensional character, someone who has empathy to people who are decent to him. But he is a heinous motherfucker all the same.
Yeah, that doesn't really excuse it. What about all the other people across thousands of miles of Midland that don't have a superhumanly strong megaswordsman to defend them? And it's not like he did it with the thought of "oh, it's fine, Guts will take care of them". He just did it because, like everything else, it furthered his agenda.
JadedWriter
Member
Would "Dude this is Berserk people die regardless of their situation" be a fucked up response? I mean Guts was even trying to protect some dude and woman early in Berserk and they still became victims regardless. In Midland you either, rape and pillage the land, get raped or become the dinner of something else. Don't get me wrong there are survivors is that world, but those people are actually highly determined for their survival. Rickert could've just been killed by Rakshas, but instead he stayed the inventive motherfucker that he was and survived. Regarding the earlier statement, Guts has no brakes...not even a clutch depending on the situation, just all accelerator at times. Man just did what he wanted without care or consequence until he eventually got tired of Caska punching him in the face. I don't think he was a mindless sociopath or anything, just had the social graces of a main battle tank. He regrets a few actions and you can instantly tell when he does, which is very appreciated actually cause in the beginning I just thought he was a heartless death monster. Dude has heart, but it takes a lot to get it out of him.
JadedWriter
Member
Does he rape his best friends girl after getting that suit?
Werewolf Jones
Member
So Batman > Femto > Captain America ??
JadedWriter
Member
After a time skip while Guts is in Elfhelm he'll come back to discover Rickert has turned into Batman.
RadioHeadAche
Member
Femto+Dead Space
Ok
Ok
Tricky I Shadow
Banned
LOL, pretty much my thoughts exactly. I had to do some research and find out if that cover was actually real or not. It is indeed real, and I like it as a homage to Femto. I mean why not? Femto is a seriously amazing looking character, and I have no idea how involved he was with the cover, but apparently Stan Lee is a Berserk fan.
JadedWriter
Member
In volume 40 Guts fights a Griffith controlled Moon.
Oh so we have something to read this year, nice.
Tricky I Shadow
Banned
So I guess I should mention that last week I finally caught up and read all the chapters that are currently out. What a journey! I took a big break after volume 30 since around that part of the story the chapters weren't quite as captivating as the rest were (volume 29 is easily the weakest volume). When I got back into it, I powered through volume 31 all the way to the very latest chapter within days, which I never did before, I always took my time with each volume. So I'm going to re-read those volumes again soon so I can fully soak in all the details.
By the way, hearing all the talk of the whole boat section being 'a dip in quality' and that 'it drags on' turned out to be nonsense. I was expecting something a lot worse, but it was actually great. The quality of the art and the plentiful double-paged spreads alone made the whole boat section good reading. It didn't feel like filler too. Other than that, what more can really be said? Berserk is an absolute masterpiece. I know it. You know it. Everyone who has read it knows it.
By the way, hearing all the talk of the whole boat section being 'a dip in quality' and that 'it drags on' turned out to be nonsense. I was expecting something a lot worse, but it was actually great. The quality of the art and the plentiful double-paged spreads alone made the whole boat section good reading. It didn't feel like filler too. Other than that, what more can really be said? Berserk is an absolute masterpiece. I know it. You know it. Everyone who has read it knows it.
Tizoc
Member
Stan lee has nothing to do with that issue though @.@
RadioHeadAche
Member
Yeah volume 29 after Sonia meeting Schierke was a drag. Things picked with the brawl at the ball, though.
JadedWriter
Member
I blazed through so much of this, but after that volume was that huge ass demon beat down between Griffith and the demon king right? I remember Volumes 30 and 31 being epic.
I quite liked the "On the Boat" stuff. The pirates were cliche, but funny, the battle with the Sea God was great and Isma is cool, plus Farnese did some magic, I couldn't be mad at that at all. I like how even Roderick pulls his weight because initially you think he's just a pretty boy though. Now Farnese's brother though can swallow a hammer. Dude stays a level 1 noob. He's like that guy in Xcom that panics at the first sight of an alien and gets vaporized.
Tricky I Shadow
Banned
Indeed. It wasn't bad (nothing in Berserk is bad) but it just wasn't all that interesting. I mean it was necessary since you kinda knew it was coming that Farnese was going to be reunited with her family in Vritannis and it showed how she truly belonged with Guts and his crew, but at the same time it just felt like the story came to a screeching halt. I mean people complain about the boat section lacking story progress, but I thought that part was worse.
I will admit the pirates were pretty annoying, specifically Captain Bonebeard. I just wanted him to die every time he would come back. Isma on the other hand is definitely a great new character. I really love seeing her interact with Isidro, it's cute and it brings out the better side of him too. They have great chemistry going on!