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[Daffy Duck]

Loved that episode, thought it was fantastic.

Cringed when Kim called him Howard, oh dear.

Also that voicemail recording I thought he was going to say it for a second then he didn't.

 

[Flo_Evans]

That episode was more like it!

 

[brickarts295]

Excuse my ignorance of the laws and lawyers but wouldn't Kim switching over to other side screw up the San Piper case? This whole thing makes me feel like this is a setup for Kim.

 

[zewone]

Excuse my ignorance of the laws and lawyers but wouldn't Kim switching over to other side screw up the San Piper case? This whole thing makes me feel like this is a setup for Kim.

She mentioned that to her would-be new boss and he said they wouldn't put her on that case for that very reason.

Plus, she already decided she would decline the offer.

 

[Creamium]

Oh boy that was a great episode. I started dreaming about going out in a blaze of glory like that at work.

I actually clicked on episode 8 a few times in the netflix menu. DAMN YOU TIME

 

[Surfinn]

I think Jimmy is really just a square peg, like he mentioned last night. He loves the theatrics of the courtroom and being a showman, one of the first movie quotes from last season was "It's Showtime Folks!' from All That Jazz. He's a flashy guy that doesn't want to walk the line of what he views as professional. Having his wings clipped, for example not even being able to be chummy with the court clerk, was just destroying him. It's not who he is.

Right, I get that's what they're trying to push, but he was great at his job and I think they didn't do a very good job of showing how he hasn't fit in.

I think we needed more examples of it so we can see just how grinding it is for him not to have his own practice or be in charge. We saw the issues Kim had, clearly, and it makes perfect sense why she would want to be in charge of her own business since she was treated so poorly even after coming through for her bosses in a huge way.

 

[SneakersSO]

Excuse my ignorance of the laws and lawyers but wouldn't Kim switching over to other side screw up the San Piper case? This whole thing makes me feel like this is a setup for Kim.

Law offices have more than 1 case. As long as she is not in any way involved in the San Piper case, everything would be ethically sound.

 

[Veelk]

Right, I get that's what they're trying to push, but he was great at his job and I think they didn't do a very good job of showing how he hasn't fit in.

I think we needed more examples of it so we can see just how grinding it is for him not to have his own practice or be in charge. We saw the issues Kim had, clearly, and it makes perfect sense why she would want to be in charge of her own business since she was treated so poorly even after coming through for her bosses in a huge way.

Idk. The issue wasn't that he was ineffective, because he was extremely effective. He just didn't like being stifled. He honestly didn't see (and I wonder if he still doesn't) what he did wrong with the commercial, and the Erin's supervision has been driving him nuts since then. Jimmy is an awesome lawyer and no one questions that, not even Cliff. But the minor issues add up to death of a thousand cuts for him. He doesn't care that he isn't facing the same catastrophic issues like being dead ended into the mail room, his problems are about having to add two spaces after every period on his documents.

 

[Saty]

Was Stacy's new house supposed to be a dead-ringer to Walt's? Was it even in the same neighborhood? That's what it looked to me. Again, way too eager with playing to BB viewers.

 

[Monocle]

This show is fucking stupid good.

Insane how good this fucking show is.

This. That montage had me in tears. The whole show is brilliant.

 

[Surfinn]

Idk. The issue wasn't that he was ineffective, because he was extremely effective. He just didn't like being stifled. He honestly didn't see (and I wonder if he still doesn't) what he did wrong with the commercial, and the Erin's supervision has been driving him nuts since then. Jimmy is an awesome lawyer and no one questions that, not even Cliff. But the minor issues add up to death of a thousand cuts for him. He doesn't care that he isn't facing the same catastrophic issues like being dead ended into the mail room, his problems are about having to add two spaces after every period on his documents.

I have a problem with him "not getting it" though. I get him WANTING to do his own thing and come through in the way he did, but, come on.. he's smart enough to know that just about everyone around him would hate the decision to do so. Even when his boss explained it in clear english he still didn't get it, and I understand they're trying to push that as a character flaw, but it came across as just being really thick, honestly.

I wish they would have spent more time showing us how he didn't fit in instead of forcing him to just be ignorant on the subject of his decision to release the commercial.

They should have just written it differently or given him a more clear motivation to push it through. For example, maybe his boss tells him to make the commercial in the basic, bland format that came before (just words and a speaker, nothing else), and stick strictly to following the format. That way, he would have felt like his talents would shine through in releasing something with more flair and therefore attracted more clients.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

This episode is in the echelon of great single TV episodes with Problem Dog, Here Was A Man, and 20 Hours In America. A masterpiece. The suit montage was on the level of the Raising Arizona cold open.

 

[SneakersSO]

Right, I get that's what they're trying to push, but he was great at his job and I think they didn't do a very good job of showing how he hasn't fit in.

I think we needed more examples of it so we can see just how grinding it is for him not to have his own practice or be in charge. We saw the issues Kim had, clearly, and it makes perfect sense why she would want to be in charge of her own business since she was treated so poorly even after coming through for her bosses in a huge way.

I think they did an excellent job of showing how Jimmy wouldn't fit in at a traditional law office. Jimmy likes the action of being a lawyer, not the minutiae. In season 1, we saw Jimmy dumpster dive when trying to nail San Piper. But when it came time to tape together some shredded documents, he fell asleep, and Chuck picked up the slack for him and got the case rolling. This season, we have seen how the office politics keep biting him & the 1 person he cares about in a big way.

Theres really nothing wrong with the ad he made for Davis & Main. The fact that the partners took it to a vote to fire him shows just how drastically they take even a tiny bit of his normal persona. They had a babysitter follow him around simply because he filmed an ad without express permission & aired it in a single timeslot. Thats pretty drastic of a reaction. Considering what Jimmy has gone through with Chuck, him being this carefully watched over in his own office is the kind of thing he wanted to get away from with Chuck. He doesn't like feeling like he can't be himself.

I'll fully admit that they definitely spent more time on the other cast members in episodes 5 & 6 of this season, but I do feel like the individual elements those episodes built-up have really started to coalesce into what the final 3 episodes will be cover.

 

[RangerX]

Right, I get that's what they're trying to push, but he was great at his job and I think they didn't do a very good job of showing how he hasn't fit in.

I think we needed more examples of it so we can see just how grinding it is for him not to have his own practice or be in charge. We saw the issues Kim had, clearly, and it makes perfect sense why she would want to be in charge of her own business since she was treated so poorly even after coming through for her bosses in a huge way.

I mean him saying it should be enough. We know at this stage what kind of guy Jimmy is. He plays fast and loose and the tight buttoned, straight laced and by the rules gig there just wasn't for him. Heres another thing. Some people just don't care so much about perks like great cars , nice apartment and other luxuries if they can't be themselves. Material wealth isn't all things to everyone.

I had a job once which was well paid, had great holidays and paid for accommodation. I left it to go to a less well paid job and with none of the perks because it meant more to me and I felt I was doing something that mattered. True story.

 

[Surfinn]

I think they did an excellent job of showing how Jimmy wouldn't fit in at a traditional law office. Jimmy likes the action of being a lawyer, not the minutiae. In season 1, we saw Jimmy dumpster dive when trying to nail San Piper. But when it came time to tape together some shredded documents, he fell asleep, and Chuck picked up the slack for him and got the case rolling. This season, we have seen how the office politics keep biting him & the 1 person he cares about in a big way.

Theres really nothing wrong with the ad he made for Davis & Main. The fact that the partners took it to a vote to fire him shows just how drastically they take even a tiny bit of his normal persona. They had a babysitter follow him around simply because he filmed an ad without express permission & aired it in a single timeslot. Thats pretty drastic of a reaction. Considering what Jimmy has gone through with Chuck, him being this carefully watched over in his own office is the kind of thing he wanted to get away from with Chuck. He doesn't like feeling like he can't be himself.

I'll fully admit that they definitely spent more time on the other cast members in episodes 5 & 6 of this season, but I do feel like the individual elements those episodes built-up have really started to coalesce into what the final 3 episodes will be cover.

But the vote was because of his decision to violate company code and go behind all of their backs to release something that represented the company. It could have been a perfectly created commercial, but the same principle would be violated. I don't get why he was so surprised about that.

Good point about the babysitter, I forgot about that. I would have enjoyed similar examples or even had that point driven harder.

I mean him saying it should be enough. We know at this stage what kind of guy Jimmy is. He plays fast and loose and the tight buttoned, straight laced and by the rules gig there just wasn't for him. Heres another thing. Some people just don't care so much about perks like great cars , nice apartment and other luxuries if they can't be themselves. Material wealth isn't all things to everyone.

I had a job once which was well paid, had great holidays and paid for accommodation. I left it to go to a less well paid job and with none of the perks because it meant more to me and I felt I was doing something that mattered. True story.

I totally get that, but I don't really think him saying it is enough. This show and BB have had some fantastic visual storytelling and I guess I just expected to see and feel his frustrations instead of him simply saying it and walking out.

Everything was perfect except how easy it felt for him to WANT to get fired. I would have liked to see something along the lines of him trying to take the lead and be cast aside or constantly reminded to follow the code and shelf his creative side for the betterment of the company.

For example, when watching BB, no one on earth would ask why Walt did the things he did in relation to his ego, because it was all vividly displayed on screen. For something as important as Saul's background and history, I'd like to experience how he became "Better Call Saul!" instead of simply being told. Him leaving the company to start his own is a pretty big moment, and it just felt a little light in this particular instance character development.

 

[PantherLotus]

Was Stacy's new house supposed to be a dead-ringer to Walt's? Was it even in the same neighborhood? That's what it looked to me. Again, way too eager with playing to BB viewers.

No, not at all. I'm pretty sure that's the actual house she lives in during BB. As for the similarity, you might notice all around the world that neighborhoods with similar inhabitants of similar class and similar earnings tend to look similar. All those middle-income houses in ABQ look very similar.

But if you want to frame that to talk about the showrunners doing things to pander to the very reason the show exists, be my guest.

 

[rekameohs]

I checked and that is indeed the same house that Stacey and Kaylee live at in Breaking Bad. And Mike and Stacey wave without much of a hint of animosity, but they're clearly not as close as they are now.

 

[Veelk]

I have a problem with him "not getting it" though. I get him WANTING to do his own thing and come through in the way he did, but, come on.. he's smart enough to know that just about everyone around him would hate the decision to do so. Even when his boss explained it in clear english he still didn't get it, and I understand they're trying to push that as a character flaw, but it came across as just being really thick, honestly.

I wish they would have spent more time showing us how he didn't fit in instead of forcing him to just be ignorant on the subject of his decision to release the commercial.

They should have just written it differently or given him a more clear motivation to push it through. For example, maybe his boss tells him to make the commercial in the basic, bland format that came before (just words and a speaker, nothing else), and stick strictly to following the format. That way, he would have felt like his talents would shine through in releasing something with more flair and therefore attracted more clients.

Well....Jimmy is pretty stupid. I mean, he's brilliant, but he's a moron, much like Walt. This seems like a common Vince Gilligan thing where characters are can be brilliantly talented and hyper intelligent, only to get mystified by basic common sense stuff because they are in the wrong headspace for it. Like Chuck said, Jimmy is an ends-justify-means sort of guy. Jimmy gets that there are rules that frown on this, but he doesn't get why people don't share his viewpoint of skirting around them when it can get results is better. Genuine good will, where you do stuff like give back money just because it's not yours even if you can get away with it utterly baffles him, even as he did it in season 1.

I think it's perfectly fine. Jimmy isn't a rational person who needs a well supported reason for doing things that the everyman would get. He's a conman down to his bones, and the idea of adhering to morality that, for him, has negligible negatives effect at best completely escapes him because it's not in his mental framework, even if it is in most other people's.

 

[PantherLotus]

This montage is so superb! The editing on this deserves an award by itself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxAqDph2r9Y

Also, from r/b-c-s:

 

[Saty]

But if you want to frame that to talk about the showrunners doing things to pander to the very reason the show exists, be my guest.

I mean they already did that in spades so far. So it wouldn't be new.

The house just looked really similar and so did surroundings, in particular the low (garage?) roof from the famed pizza scene. I'd be surprised if i was the only one having thinking that.

 

[Spectral Glider]

Well....Jimmy is pretty stupid. I mean, he's brilliant, but he's a moron, much like Walt. This seems like a common Vince Gilligan thing where characters are can be brilliantly talented and hyper intelligent, only to get mystified by basic common sense stuff because they are in the wrong headspace for it. Like Chuck said, Jimmy is an ends-justify-means sort of guy. Jimmy gets that there are rules that frown on this, but he doesn't get why people don't share his viewpoint of skirting around them when it can get results is better. Genuine good will, where you do stuff like give back money just because it's not yours even if you can get away with it utterly baffles him, even as he did it in season 1.

I think it's perfectly fine. Jimmy isn't a rational person who needs a well supported reason for doing things that the everyman would get. He's a conman down to his bones, and the idea of adhering to morality that, for him, has negligible negatives effect at best completely escapes him because it's not in his mental framework, even if it is in most other people's.

There's also the point that Jimmy rushed with the commercial to impress Kim. His hole stint at Davis and Main was for her. To me, those arguing that Jimmy's motivations seem rushed have completely missed the point of this season being about jimmy and Kim's relationship.

 

[UrbanRats]

I didn't like it that much.

The flashback was pretty bad, too cartoony and clumsy, even for the larger than life standards of the Breaking Bad universe, and the montage was great, but went on too long.
Outside of those two moments, every other scene felt pretty much like filler.

 

[Mariolee]

I checked and that is indeed the same house that Stacey and Kaylee live at in Breaking Bad. And Mike and Stacey wave without much of a hint of animosity, but they're clearly not as close as they are now.

Nice, so that makes me wonder what this Stacy stuff is all leading up to.

 

[SymbiantXenos]

Show is as good as breaking bad was.

 

[Dangerblade]

Is there some kind of super thread or sub-Reddit that lists all the BCS easter eggs? I can't keep up with them. So good.

My favourite part of the episode was probably the deadpan "Actually, I'm from Michigan", haha.

 

[Veelk]

There's also the point that Jimmy rushed with the commercial to impress Kim. His hole stint at Davis and Main was for her. To me, those arguing that Jimmy's motivations seem rushed have completely missed the point of this season being about jimmy and Kim's relationship.

That's another strength of Gilligan's writing, he gives his character's multilayered motivation.

He wants to succeed and do a good job, but he also does it because of Kim. He is tired at constantly being looked down upon for his methods that give him comparatively more success (again, insofar as the end results alone) than any straightlaced lawyer would be able to manage by following the rules. He is annoyed at Erin babysitting him. He is still resentful to Chuck. And he wants to be free to be himself and take pride in his job, just for the sake of not having to be ashamed of things like not having his own secretary.

Again, this is much like Walt, where the motivation for his actions was often understandable desire for wealth, wanting to provide for his family, his own pride and ego, genuine fear for his life, wanting to protect his family, his resentment to others, his controling tendencies...often all at once.It's damn good writing.

 

[jond76]

The wavey man doing different moves in the montage cracked me up.

 

[EdibleExplosives]

There's also the point that Jimmy rushed with the commercial to impress Kim. His hole stint at Davis and Main was for her. To me, those arguing that Jimmy's motivations seem rushed have completely missed the point of this season being about jimmy and Kim's relationship.

Yep. I thought even Jimmy explaining himself this episode wasn't needed since it was pretty obvious why he wanted to leave the job.

 

[crisdecuba]

I would hate to see the way the show would turn out if the "this is filler" complainers had their way. :-/

 

[PantherLotus]

Is there some kind of super thread or sub-Reddit that lists all the BCS easter eggs? I can't keep up with them. So good.

My favourite part of the episode was probably the deadpan "Actually, I'm from Michigan", haha.

this is good: https://m.reddit.com/r/bettercallsaul

 

[Finalow]

this last episode was superb.

and damn, cocobolo is expensive.

 

[firehawk12]

It's funny how Kim is basically playing the Skyler role in the show, as the voice of conscience trying to reign in Jimmy as best as she can. This whole "I can be with you, but not with you" thing is an interesting compromise as well, because it's clear that Kim is trying her best to make this work and it'll be all the more tragic when Jimmy does whatever it is he does that alienates her.

 

[RecRoulette]

Caught the episode today because I was busy last night. Pretty good episode, I wasn't as in love with it as you all were though. The beginning scene instantly gave me young Dick Whitman vibes, so I hope they limit that.

There's going to be an IFH moment and it's going to be BRUTAL when it comes. After this episode, that's what I think Kim's ultimate fate is going to be. Everyone's so sure that Jimmy's going to be the one that ends it, but I think it's the other way around.

 

[Azzanadra]

I fully expect that inflatable man to become a meme, that montage had me rolling.

 

[Dai101]

I fully expect that inflatable man to become a meme, that montage had me rolling.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvaRGiMWRaE

 

[Veelk]

It's funny how Kim is basically playing the Skyler role in the show, as the voice of conscience trying to reign in Jimmy as best as she can. This whole "I can be with you, but not with you" thing is an interesting compromise as well, because it's clear that Kim is trying her best to make this work and it'll be all the more tragic when Jimmy does whatever it is he does that alienates her.

Oh, she has had moments. I remember when Jimmy told her about he forged evidence to exonerate his client, she instantly got serious and told Jimmy never to tell her something like that again (because it implicated her).

Immediately some people complained about her ruining a perfectly good chill session. Oh yeah, she's the one at fault.

I think the major difference is that Kim was given her own plotline long before that set in. Skyler was mostly the "Wife at home" until season 3 where she actively resisted him, and then in season 4 where she actually began to participate in Walt's crimes, but by then it was too late.

Kim having an agency in her role, mostly because she's not really tied to Jimmy as of now unlike Skylar and also knows about Jimmy's true nature long before Skylar did.

And also, given that most of Jimmy's tension comes from actual human drama as opposed to Walt doing the crazy shit he does and going up against meth dealers, maybe I guess Kim's issues with Jimmy are more congruent than Skyler's were with Walt.

Lastly, I think no one wants another skyler situation, so maybe people are actively trying to be more empathetic than they were with her and all those thousands of threads of "Hey, I'm not sexist or anything, but isn't skyler the worst thing ever and should die because fuck that bitch" weren't for nothing. Idealistic, I know, but I hope this is the case. But I also wouldn't be surprised for people to turn on her as soon as she becomes "annoying".

 

[IronRinn]

Caught up on this episode, finally. Loved it. Great stuff with the Jimmy gets himself fired montage. Definitely agree with the "Kim has a shady family/past" theory. Omar is the best.

 

[jett]

I knew I was right not to like that Kim ho.

Anyway, this episode was great when it focused on Jimmy (yay) and not so much when it deviated from him (boo). That's how I feel about most of the second season to be honest. However with his latest move I feel like he's going backwards instead of forwards. I'm just not seeing progress or forward momentum here in the show.

 

[PantherLotus]

The one thing about Skyler that is often overlooked is that BB intentionally set her up as a foil and a cause of Walter's fall, the most obvious example being her overbearing intervention with the i-have-the-pillow-so-i-get-to-talk. I don't know if it was intended at the time (being 7-8 years ago now), but there's definitely a sexist implication in her presentation.

So while I see what some people are saying in terms of Kim being the lame good person holding Jimmy back from the brink, they're giving her much more to chew on.

(also I think Gilligan saw some of the MRA types latching onto Walter and regretted Skyler's presentation but this is only my perception by how different BCS feels)

 

[hokahey]

-- feel like if you're this deep into the show and you're confused at all -- rather than being intentionally intrigued -- this might not be the show for you.

-- i'm not sure distilling this episode down to "jimmy got fired and kim had an interview" is fair at all, when these are the same exact types of comments that complain about jimmy not becoming Saul fast enough ... when this is the very episode where we see the first real flashes of that character shining through on Jimmy! We have inflatable crazy air dancer! We have the crazy colorful suits! We have Jimmy lying through his teeth with Saul-patented bullshit. "Maybe a bird dropped it right into Tuco's hand?" And the Kim stuff was deep because you see that first, she definitely has something to hide from her past -- and her realization that the new boss is very likely the same as the old boss.

-- speaking of Kim -- wouldn't it be interesting if her background was similar to Jimmy's, only her response was different? Say she was related to a grifter that embarrassed her or something, and her reaction was to play things on the straight and narrow to prove that one could be both honest AND a wolf. ahem.

-- mike's daughter-in-law was more or less revealed to be manipulating him when she picked out a super expensive house ("you think it's too big?") while also acknowledging (through superb acting that the viewer has to read) that he can't really afford it as a parking attendant. Combine that with former knowledge of his son / her husband's bad cop ways, and Mike's destroyed face and spotless car ("you'd never know it was in an accident!"), and it's clear she's manipulating him. The real question for the viewer is which side of the moral divide she stands on. Is she punishing Mike for what happened to her husband? Is she just trying to do what's best for her daughter? Does she know that by putting Mike in this position that she's putting her daughter in actual danger? See, that's the better conversation.

-- i'm starting to come around on this idea: I think this last episode shows we might be getting to Saul Goodman, Criminal Lawyer faster than people think. Like, by the end of the season.

-- I do expect some sort of Slippin' Kimmy to be revealed, yes.

Excellent analysis and commentary. I couldn't agree more, all around.

 

[Veelk]

The one thing about Skyler that is often overlooked is that BB intentionally set her up as a foil and a cause of Walter's fall, the most obvious example being her overbearing intervention with the i-have-the-pillow-so-i-get-to-talk. I don't know if it was intended at the time (being 7-8 years ago now), but there's definitely a sexist implication in her presentation.

And actual MRA type once brought that up as a discussion point to say how Skyler tried to control Walt. It was a desperate gamble, sure, but the fact was that Walt had absolutely refused to discuss his reasoning. And given how close that whole family was and how distant Walt has been from that episode, it came off as forceful, but only because it absolutely needed to be for her to get Walt to talk. And given how his death would affect her life, I think it's absolutely fair for her to force Walt to speak to his reasons. It might be difficult for him, but it's not any less difficult than what he was asking her to do. "Honey, I'm gonna go die of cancer, just accept it." He can deal with some forced confrontation.

But fine, let's say the exercise itself was unfair. If Walt wants to just die without explanation, she should just respect his wishes and put up with it without a word of complaint. Whatever.

But if she's as controlling as she is, then I think the actual ending of that scene bears some relevance. Walt gives his truly heart-rending speech and... She accepts it. Tearfully, because this is NOT what she wants... But she's respecting his wishes to die without treatment. The scene that Skyler's detractors use to prove her controlling tendencies, if they have a point at all regarding that forced confrontation, refutes the notion that she can't let go, because that's exactly what she does. And if she is such a control freak, think how much more difficult it must have been for her to have done that. But she did, out of love and respect for her husband, even if she disagreed with him entirely. Doesn't that paint the scene as not just the opposite of what they describe her as, but also introducing an element of self sacrifice in her acceptance?

And in the morning, it's Walt who, completely unprompted, decides he will take the treatment, and voluntarily goes back to cooking meth.

This is getting off topic, but I genuinely feel that the detractors never had a point. Skyler was a normal woman. If she was controlling, it wasn't in any more of a way than a slight power imbalance that isn't in any way harmful that is present in virtually any marriage that is blown way out of proportion into some kind of shrieking banshee caricature that only exists in people's minds. Gilligan wrote how a person placed in Skyler's place would react pretty well, and if that's somehow inconvenient to Walter, that's too bad. Spouses aren't there to be convenient, they're supposed to loving partners. Skyler was going out of her way to save the man she loved because he wasn't saving himself and she had no idea why. At worst, she took desperate measures to try to fix a desperate situation.

 

[crisdecuba]

And actual MRA type once brought that up as a discussion point to say how Skyler tried to control Walt. It was a desperate gamble, sure, but the fact was that Walt had absolutely refused to discuss his reasoning. And given how close that whole family was and how distant Walt has been from that episode, it came off as forceful, but only because it absolutely needed to be for her to get Walt to talk. And given how his death would affect her life, I think it's absolutely fair for her to force Walt to speak to his reasons. It might be difficult for him, but it's not any less difficult than what he was asking her to do. "Honey, I'm gonna go die of cancer, just accept it." He can deal with some forced confrontation.

But fine, let's say the exercise itself was unfair. If Walt wants to just die without explanation, she should just respect his wishes and put up with it without a word of complaint. Whatever.

But if she's as controlling as she is, then I think the actual ending of that scene bears some relevance. Walt gives his truly heart-rending speech and... She accepts it. Tearfully, because this is NOT what she wants... But she's respecting his wishes to die without treatment. The scene that Skyler's detractors use to prove her controlling tendencies, if they have a point at all regarding that forced confrontation, refutes the notion that she can't let go, because that's exactly what she does. And if she is such a control freak, think how much more difficult it must have been for her to have done that. But she did, out of love and respect for her husband, even if she disagreed with him entirely. Doesn't that paint the scene as not just the opposite of what they describe her as, but also introducing an element of self sacrifice in her acceptance?

And in the morning, it's Walt who, completely unprompted, decides he will take the treatment, and voluntarily goes back to cooking meth.

This is getting off topic, but I genuinely feel that the detractors never had a point. Skyler was a normal woman. If she was controlling, it wasn't in any more of a way than a slight power imbalance that isn't in any way harmful that is present in virtually any marriage that is blown way out of proportion into some kind of shrieking banshee caricature that only exists in people's minds. Gilligan wrote how a person placed in Skyler's place would react pretty well, and if that's somehow inconvenient to Walter, that's too bad. Spouses aren't there to be convenient, they're supposed to loving partners. Skyler was going out of her way to save the man she loved because he wasn't saving himself and she had no idea why. At worst, she took desperate measures to try to fix a desperate situation.

Just wanted to say I appreciate your thoughtful contributions to these threads. Even if I don't always agree with you, it's always great to read (and most of the time I do agree).

 

[CharminUltra]

"And we're not talking about a number one..."

 

[Fracas]

I still can't get over how good that montage from this week was

The cinematography and editing are just insane

 

[rekameohs]

I still can't get over how good that montage from this week was

The cinematography and editing are just insane

Love the Roy G. Biv suits reveal

 

[PantherLotus]

And actual MRA type once brought that up as a discussion point to say how Skyler tried to control Walt. It was a desperate gamble, sure, but the fact was that Walt had absolutely refused to discuss his reasoning. And given how close that whole family was and how distant Walt has been from that episode, it came off as forceful, but only because it absolutely needed to be for her to get Walt to talk. And given how his death would affect her life, I think it's absolutely fair for her to force Walt to speak to his reasons. It might be difficult for him, but it's not any less difficult than what he was asking her to do. "Honey, I'm gonna go die of cancer, just accept it." He can deal with some forced confrontation.

But fine, let's say the exercise itself was unfair. If Walt wants to just die without explanation, she should just respect his wishes and put up with it without a word of complaint. Whatever.

But if she's as controlling as she is, then I think the actual ending of that scene bears some relevance. Walt gives his truly heart-rending speech and... She accepts it. Tearfully, because this is NOT what she wants... But she's respecting his wishes to die without treatment. The scene that Skyler's detractors use to prove her controlling tendencies, if they have a point at all regarding that forced confrontation, refutes the notion that she can't let go, because that's exactly what she does. And if she is such a control freak, think how much more difficult it must have been for her to have done that. But she did, out of love and respect for her husband, even if she disagreed with him entirely. Doesn't that paint the scene as not just the opposite of what they describe her as, but also introducing an element of self sacrifice in her acceptance?

And in the morning, it's Walt who, completely unprompted, decides he will take the treatment, and voluntarily goes back to cooking meth.

This is getting off topic, but I genuinely feel that the detractors never had a point. Skyler was a normal woman. If she was controlling, it wasn't in any more of a way than a slight power imbalance that isn't in any way harmful that is present in virtually any marriage that is blown way out of proportion into some kind of shrieking banshee caricature that only exists in people's minds. Gilligan wrote how a person placed in Skyler's place would react pretty well, and if that's somehow inconvenient to Walter, that's too bad. Spouses aren't there to be convenient, they're supposed to loving partners. Skyler was going out of her way to save the man she loved because he wasn't saving himself and she had no idea why. At worst, she took desperate measures to try to fix a desperate situation.

Great post. Mostly agreed (I think this glosses over some of the many instances of the show's characterization of Skyler before she tried to salvage control), but more specifically:

Just wanted to say I appreciate your thoughtful contributions to these threads. Even if I don't always agree with you, it's always great to read (and most of the time I do agree).

 

[B33]

I just caught up with latest episode of the season.

Goddamn, this is a great series.

 

[Veelk]

Just wanted to say I appreciate your thoughtful contributions to these threads. Even if I don't always agree with you, it's always great to read (and most of the time I do agree).

Great post. Mostly agreed (I think this glosses over some of the many instances of the show's characterization of Skyler before she tried to salvage control), but more specifically:

Thanks, both of you. I try.

And I'm sure we can find some instances through the series of that characterization, but as a whole, I don't remember getting that impression from any season in general, and definitely not that scene specifically. But at the same time, I wasn't as well versed in spotting sexism in writing back then. I'll specifically look for these things when I rewatch the series (probably when BCS hits BB's starting point), but this isn't the BB thread, so we'll save that discussion for when we get there.

 

[Azzanadra]

I love how slow the show is, but nonetheless entertaining as fuck. To echo many in this thread, that hour just flies by. Probably my favorite show right now that isn't finished/cancelled.

Used to be
<------

.... but that show turned to shit.

 

[rekameohs]

With Skyler, I think Vince may have laid the sad-sack Walter storyline a little too thick to get the audience to feel his plight, thus her emasculating scenes like the eBay handjob and the wrong credit card scolding put an image of her in some people's minds that wasn't shaken, even as the show's writing improved and she became a more rational character.

By the end she was very well-written, but I think they've handled Kim significantly better as the female lead in each show's early seasons.