Better Call Saul is, by design, a pretty slow-moving show, but this season has introduced several characters from the Breaking Bad universe, and the Chuck storyline got a major payoff in Chicanery, where Jimmy coaxed him into a breakdown on the witness stand. Its an intense battle of wills between the two of them.
It was good reading. There was about 30 pages of dialogue, just dialogue, in those courtroom scenes. There was a density to stepping into that. Dan Sackheim, who directed the episode, he called me, I was in New York, and said, Weve got a theory of how to do this, because you have so much to do, and Im looking for a way to not pile on so much. He started laying it out: If we start on the coverage of everybody else, thatll give you more days to learn your stuff. And I said, Look, whatever you decide to do, its fine. When you roll, Ill be ready, whistling past the graveyard. It was kind of a nice gesture, but I really generally dont like to think about it too much. I like to be prepared, I like to know what Im doing, and I like to not see the goalposts. Because like I say, real life is unpredictable. You can launch into any endeavor and have a manhole cover give way underneath you. You dont know.
So it was not daunting so much as it was invigorating. I knew my stuff and I knew the story, I deeply knew my relationship with Jimmy. The construct came script by script, and the writers have been very kind about talking about it, saying that our relationship, the relationship that Jimmy and Chuck developed in the hands of Michael and Bob, inspired them, and led them places they didnt really suspect they were going.
They created Chuck as a person that Jimmy cares about. Saul Goodman has said goodbye to the world, in large part. For him its about amassing those oil drums full of money in the desert. So by the time we got to Episode 5 of Season 3, the gladiators were in the arena, but they had a very deep, very troubled relationship. If you want to boil things down, I made mama proud, Jimmy made mama laugh. What has more value? What burns Chuck? What doesnt Jimmy understand about what burns Chuck? Because Chuck has never expressed it to Jimmy.
One of the prime movers in Chuck is his inability to talk about these things that hes feeling. He doesnt have anyone. When he has a couple of sessions with [Chucks therapist] Dr. Cruz, shes Clea DuValls character, its the first time that weve seen a person that hes completely honest with about himself. Imagine having a life where you dont have that person. You have to hire a professional to be the person youre honest with. Thats key with Chuck, I think.
Do you think Chucks ex-wife was that person for him, earlier?
Yes, but theres a kind of formality that he had with his wife. It was kind of an aesthetic level that they had together. We dont really know what their intimacy level was.
It seems like it was more of a deep appreciation for each other.
I think so, I think so. Their intimacy was not explored. In a different universe, I can imagine being in love with Annie Cusack; shes this fabulous actress, a brilliant, funny woman. But the construct on the page was something very much withheld, as far as Chuck is concerned. And not its not just Chuck withholding, its also his inability to get at whats really wonderful about Rebecca. Its lovely, and kind of complicated.
