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Better Call Saul S3 |OT| Gus Who's Back - Mondays 10/9c on AMC
- Thread starter TheOddOne
- Start date
Has any critic of substance written about the difference in fan reaction between Howard Hamlin and Jesse Pinkman?
What's the main point of comparison between the two outside of them both happening to be female characters?
And the love interest of the main character that serves a significant motivator for him to give into his vices so as to help that love interest in some way.
I feel one underdiscussed aspect is the underlying toxicity of Jimmy and Kim's relationship. In a way, Jimmy is very controlling of Kim, or wants to be, so he'll keep her respect and affection. When he finds out his actions have caused Kim trouble at HHM, he thinks he can go up to Howard and tell him to stop somehow, and Kim has to threaten to end her friendship with him to get him to back off (Which he doesn't, he just starts going around her back to do so). He eventually makes her implicitly involved in the illegality of the Mesa Verde case. And now this whole thing where they pay for their space together.
I can't remember the episode, but there's one this where Kim has to remind him that they only share the same building and aren't actually partners, to which he is shows surprise and hurt to. And now when Kim offers fiscally smart decisions to save money, he blows them up out of insecurity and insists on paying his half. Don't fire the secretary we don't need, order chinese food, max out your credit cards at a bar, etc. He's insistent on it even though if he fails to pay his share, Kim might have ended up being in trouble. Yet just now, now that he thinks he has a million dollars coming to him, he's all "Our problems are solved". So when she offers to cover him because she has money to spare, he pushes back against her as if offended, but now that it's the reverse, he wants to cover her expenses even though she doesn't need them covered?
I don't think Jimmy is very much like Walt overall, but he certainly has his stink with how he's framing his invasion of her life where she doesn't want him to be as him "Just taking care of her"
OmegaTreeFish
Banned
Lol i actually agree. Sounds more like a car brand than a person.
I remember really enjoying her character.
The best thing about both these shows is that characters arn't good or bad. They have depth and do things you will both agree with and disagree with.
Take Jimmy in this episode. That shit is just wrong. But we always knew he was a shady character. Just with a kind of lovable personallity. However I can see how he justifies it in his mind. He can see that the money they get will cover there losses and then some. Waiting years for a bit more he doesn't seem worth it. These people are old after all and who knows how long they have left. So he plays with the group and gets them to turn on the poor lady in charge. She changes her mind, settles and they all become friends again. He gets his money and solves his cash issues, they get more than enough money and the company he hates (who made him be in this situation in the first place, so really it's their fault) gets screwed out of a lot of money. In the end it all seems perfect to him. * this is me describing HIS thought precess as I see it not mine*
Now I don't have to agree with him to be able to see his thought processes and enjoy him as a character. Same went for Walt, Skyler, Gus, Mike etc etc. Its why both shows are damn good.
Knew something was coming for Kim. Was cut very well. Was worried for a second it was gonna be fatel. But you know something bad is coming for multiple characters what with there not existing in BB or their state of being in BB.
Human Trashcan
Banned
Oh there's a HUGE amount of misogyny involved, and also the fact that a significant chunk of the audience kept rooting for Walt till the very end, despite the fact that he is unequivocally the villain. Part of that is also the writing team wimping out and introducing literal nazis towards the end to be even bigger villains, but yeah, the reaction to Skyler is lots of misogyny. Kim is a totally different character and has never had to fill the role of the nagging shrew (which is another failure of BB's writing of Skyler tbh), she's mostly been supportive of Jimmy, only calling him out when he crossed a clear line.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
I'm a pretty big fan of the comic and I liked it. It helped how they ended season one.
Another great episode.
Jimmy really became the most unsympathetic character throughout this season (or the latter half perhaps). And Howard, of all people, became one of the most sympathetic. That alone makes this show awesome. I really love these gradual shifts in roles.
Also, the car accident was indeed executed masterfully with that sudden cut. I think an actual fatigued driver would experience a crash exactly like that: sudden and brutal. And it comes as a shock even though the opening scene is the most obvious foreshadowing. It shows that obvious foreshadowing does not have to be a problem at all.
I hadn't really though about a possible cancellation yet. That would piss me off.
Jimmy really became the most unsympathetic character throughout this season (or the latter half perhaps). And Howard, of all people, became one of the most sympathetic. That alone makes this show awesome. I really love these gradual shifts in roles.
Also, the car accident was indeed executed masterfully with that sudden cut. I think an actual fatigued driver would experience a crash exactly like that: sudden and brutal. And it comes as a shock even though the opening scene is the most obvious foreshadowing. It shows that obvious foreshadowing does not have to be a problem at all.
I hadn't really though about a possible cancellation yet. That would piss me off.
Sunster
Member
I felt so bad for her.
Human Trashcan
Banned
hilarious maybe isn't the word I'd use... more like soul-crushing. that was super rough. It was a great episode but probably the darkest this show has gotten yet.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
The thing that pisses me off is how many people misspell "Skyler." 
Skyler is disempowering to Walt early on, but it's a case of her minor sin being eclipsed by Walt's much larger ones almost immediately. I was sympathetic to her fairly early on, particularly over the lying. Then again, I also wrote off Walt before the end of Season 2.
Skyler is disempowering to Walt early on, but it's a case of her minor sin being eclipsed by Walt's much larger ones almost immediately. I was sympathetic to her fairly early on, particularly over the lying. Then again, I also wrote off Walt before the end of Season 2.
Man that last scene was heartbreaking, really crushed me.
By the way, everyone looks like shit in this show right now, haha. Jimmy's hair, Nacho's eyes, Kim's laugh lines / oral posture. Even Howard and Chuck look worn the fuck out. Amazing combination of lighting, makeup and acting to convey that kind of stress that just physically frays you.
By the way, everyone looks like shit in this show right now, haha. Jimmy's hair, Nacho's eyes, Kim's laugh lines / oral posture. Even Howard and Chuck look worn the fuck out. Amazing combination of lighting, makeup and acting to convey that kind of stress that just physically frays you.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
This episode made me despise Jimmy, especially since that's something you know happens in society, people being taken advantage of like that. It was tough to watch.
I don't completely understand the Irene thing tho.
Why wait so long to talk with Irene about what's going on and tell her what the other ladies want? Or why not push the other ladies to have a chat with Irene about it?
It seemed so that Irene didn't really care about cashing out or waiting. So the other ladies talking to her should be enough right? Seems like a lot of unnecessary hurt.
Why wait so long to talk with Irene about what's going on and tell her what the other ladies want? Or why not push the other ladies to have a chat with Irene about it?
It seemed so that Irene didn't really care about cashing out or waiting. So the other ladies talking to her should be enough right? Seems like a lot of unnecessary hurt.
I think jimmy did this with Irene because he thinks HHM is going to sue him for interfering in Irene's decision. If Irene goes to court about this, she can say without lying that jimmy never advised her to accept sandpiper's money. Irene's decision must come from her, and jimmy has to stay away as much as possible.
At least, that's how i understand this episode.
That wasn't wimping out, that was intentional to get the viewers to root for Walt again and brilliant and perfect. Right when they did everything they could to make as many people turn on Walt as would ever turn on Walt, they pull back and force the viewers to want him to succeed again.
I disagree that it was misogyny. The biggest Walt fans also started hating Jesse when he became a rat. They hated whoever was causing Walt problems. Skyler was also grating at times. Her reaction to finding out the Walt smokes pot. Yelling "Shut up shut up" at her sister.
That's what I thought aswell. But in the end after the Bingo he kind of still gives her some advice.
I feel like if he manipulated the other ladies to go and talk to Irene he would be even more off the radar if he did it right.
Human Trashcan
Banned
I disagree with all of that and the Jesse hate wasn't anywhere near the intensity or degree as the Skyler hate.
Grinchy
Banned
That's true, but for the show, it was just a way of showing us who Jimmy is as a person. Lots of things could have or should have been done, but what was done shows us the lengths he'll go to and the people he'll hurt to get what he wants.
I have to say BB has been many years ago. But I love BCS so far. Maybe I need to rewatch BB but for me the biggest plus of BCS there being no Skyler. That's such a huge relief. Kim Wrexler is so cool and has so many dimensions to her character. I would say that some of t he best episodes from season 2 and season 3 of this show are above the worst and average episodes of BB to say the least. The whole thing with Nacho and Hector Salamanca is so freaking cool. And the whole tour de Mike in this show is just amazing. That scene in the dessert with the random sniper shots and the shoes hanging there is just pure TV p0rn. There are so many great scenes and episodes in this show that I can only imagine how season 4 might be if it would actually have Walter White and Jesse Pinkman.
Oh and poor Papa Nacho.... muy obstinado!
I noticed that Crazy 8 store in the mall! I got really excited pointing it out and my girlfriend was like -_-
I noticed that Crazy 8 store in the mall! I got really excited pointing it out and my girlfriend was like -_-
PapaJustify
Member
Great episode. Like always. Too bad that the ratings of this show are so bad that Season 4 is in jeopardy
Abilidebob
Member
Howard did nothing wrong in the entire show, it's impressive really.
Wait what?
Oh for fucks sake America, don't you dare. Everyone that I know in my country only watches it on Netflix, maybe they'll take that into consideration?
Great episode. Like always. Too bad that the ratings of this show are so bad that Season 4 is in jeopardy
Wait what?
Oh for fucks sake America, don't you dare. Everyone that I know in my country only watches it on Netflix, maybe they'll take that into consideration?
The Elite
BOSS
I really liked Preacher.
Suggesting that they talk to Irene about it would have been dangerously close to legal advice. I don't think he can give that under suspension. Also, he has a vested financial interest. He could get in a lot of trouble if it looked like he made that suggesting for his own gain.
Cornballer
Member
- Podcast for this week is up
Guests include Gould, Gilligan, Rhea Seehorn, writer Gordon Smith and music supervisor Thomas Golubic.
Guests include Gould, Gilligan, Rhea Seehorn, writer Gordon Smith and music supervisor Thomas Golubic.
lvl99 Pixel
Member
This shows so well made but so fucking sad, even compared to Breaking Bad.
I honestly don't know if its healthy to keep watching this
I honestly don't know if its healthy to keep watching this
Infuriating. That whole episode was his "Heisenberg" transformation moment for sure. Jimmy is fading and Saul is coming.
WHAT
You could vaguely argue that he had may have surface level been genuine to have their bests interests in mind, but it's debatable if it was his own greed like Hamlin said or real care. The episode implies the former. Either way he completely screwed over a completely innocent person for his own purposes.
kruis
Exposing the sinister cartel of retailers who allow companies to pay for advertising space.
BCS is shown as a Netflix Original in the rest of the world. That's enough to keep it going for another season.
Triggerhappytel
Member
Did I miss something - did Hector take
? I kind of assumed the results would be almost instantaneous (
), but nothing happened. I didn't know if I missed it as I wasn't paying full attention at the time, and perhaps he hadn't taken them.
Kim is so great; I think she's a really strong character and she's like the 'good' version of Jimmy. Where he schemes and cheats and does shortcuts and shirks responsibilities, Kim is hard-working, assertive and trustworthy. I love it when she engages with Howard because it feels like a battle of wills between these two incredibly smart people. That scene at the end was so shocking and sudden, yet played out incredibly well. I knew it was coming, but it was still masterful.
I think he's there already; now we just need Kim
EDIT - don't know what the deal is with spoilers so I've just added some spoiler tags.
the pills that Nacho planted on him
as the chemist told him to swap the pills back
Kim is so great; I think she's a really strong character and she's like the 'good' version of Jimmy. Where he schemes and cheats and does shortcuts and shirks responsibilities, Kim is hard-working, assertive and trustworthy. I love it when she engages with Howard because it feels like a battle of wills between these two incredibly smart people. That scene at the end was so shocking and sudden, yet played out incredibly well. I knew it was coming, but it was still masterful.
I think he's there already; now we just need Kim
to leave and the death of Chuck to cement his criminal lifestyle.
EDIT - don't know what the deal is with spoilers so I've just added some spoiler tags.
crisdecuba
Member
It was Mike that told him to switch the pills back. And my understanding from the scene where he filled the pills is that he filled them with ibuprofen. The idea would be that the pills would not work and so whatever attack Tio was having would take its course.
Triggerhappytel
Member
Ah yeah, that makes sense. I assumed he was adding something that would hurt Hector, but I suppose it makes a lot more sense from a toxicology perspective that he'd add something relatively harmless and unlikely to raise eyebrows.
He made an old lady cry.
No wonder he was always on Walt`s side against Jesse. Both are excellent manipulators.
Dio Brando
Banned
i actually had to pause a lot. couldn't watch because of how pissed i was.
yep. probably the fatest 180 i did in a show. even chuck is more sympathetic than him now.
crisdecuba
Member
This episode revealed to me an unfeeling part of my heart that didn't react at all haha.
It's funny reading stuff like this. I like Jimmy as a character. There's really nothing they can do to make me dislike him, just like nothing Walt ever did made me dislike him. I was always rooting for him.
Now you have reactions like this when he made an old woman cry but last week he faked an injury putting those brothers in a way worse situation overall, and he's literally stolen from people, etc.
Still nothing worse on this show than Chuck lying about his dying mother's last words.
Dio Brando
Banned
The brothers situation is a bit different because they made a promise to Jimmy, and they got A LOT of new visitors. they tried to play a hustler and got hustled.
This episode revealed to me an unfeeling part of my heart that didn't react at all haha.
crisdecuba
Member
If it helps, had the "mark" been a kid, I would feel the same way you did.The brothers situation is a bit different because they made a promise to Jimmy, and they got A LOT of new visitors. they tried to play a hustler and got hustled.
minor effort
Banned
What Jimmy did to Irene was worse.
At least in Chuck's case, while wrong, could be argued that he was trying to spare Jimmy's feelings in a way, given that he left her bedside as she was dying. What Jimmy did wasn't just one single lie, but required multiple layers of deliberate deceit, and the poisoning of an entire social circle.
Irene may never be able to repair all the friendships she lost.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
It did occur to me. They were being passive-aggressive bitches to Irene. They should have confronted her or talked to her about their concerns/issues.
Still, they're her only friends and it's just so heartbreaking for poor Irene.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Oh sure, but even if you fully believe what Jimmy is saying, the right thing to do would be to confront Irene and ask her what's up with the lawsuit and so on, not give her the cold shoulder and ignore her like a butthurt elementary school child.
Martinski43
Member
Wonder what the goddamn genius Vince Gilligan will continue with after BCS.. Will it be more of the BB/BCS universe, or will it be something completely different.
Human Trashcan
Banned
That's what elderly people in homes are often like though. Their world is pretty small and they lose perspective and can get incredibly petty. Jimmy obviously knew this and took advantage.