Sectorseven
Member
Why didn't Hector's pills work?
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Better Call Saul S3 |OT| Gus Who's Back - Mondays 10/9c on AMC
- Thread starter TheOddOne
- Start date
I was really afraid Kim would crash and even said out loud, "Don't you do it Vince Gilligan. Don't you do it Peter Gould." But the impact was way better than I imagined.
Well fucking done.
These things, they take time.
I KNEW IT. Spoilers but is he coming back for the third season?
Well fucking done.
These things, they take time.
I KNEW IT. Spoilers but is he coming back for the third season?
Dang, got some tears in my eyes twice. First was when Jimmy looks out at that poor, confused, dejected old woman before going through with his bingo plan. Second was when Kim crashed her car. The way they cut it was so effective at making it seem sudden and unfair.
Also, Howard is so sick of everyone's shit at this point, lol.
Also, Howard is so sick of everyone's shit at this point, lol.
For sure. They've also done a good job telegraphing generally this season that she is overworking herself.
Link
The Autumn Wind
It's not like it's going to happen instantly.
BigJonsson
Member
That was hard to watch
BobTheFork
Member
What was in the pills he switched. I forgot and thought it was just poison
Ibuprofen, probably just for the placebo effect.
Jay Shadow
Member
I love this part of the AV Club review
Yes, this is how they chose to follow up Breaking Bad. Amazing.
Yes, this is how they chose to follow up Breaking Bad. Amazing.
minor effort
Banned
They're certainly making Jimmy completely pathetic and unlikable as this season ends. Poor Irene. 
He also seemed like kind of a dense shithead when he was aggressively trying to distract Kim from her work. Yes, she needs a break, but he's coming off like a carefree jackass.
He also seemed like kind of a dense shithead when he was aggressively trying to distract Kim from her work. Yes, she needs a break, but he's coming off like a carefree jackass.
The Silver
Member
damn that Irene stuff was so fucked up, Jimmy pls,
Chuck finally getting fucked has turned everything around
Chuck finally getting fucked has turned everything around
Jimmy's treatment of Irene makes me rethink how he first interacted with her in season 1.
I assumed that Jimmy's sense of decency prevented him from taking her money when she didn't have enough then, rather than most cases where he was trying to appeal to his brother. But the fact that he did it so easily here suggests that even that bit of morality was him just trying to model himself after his image of his brother.
It's sad because I don't think this is Jimmy changing into a worse person, this is just his true, authentic self. And there's something particularly meloncholic about having to revise your memories from where you liked him with knowledge that that was all fake.
I imagine that's how Nacho's dad felt. It's not just Nacho disappointed him in that moment, but the times where he thought Nacho was out of the game and proud of him for it, turns out he's still in.
I assumed that Jimmy's sense of decency prevented him from taking her money when she didn't have enough then, rather than most cases where he was trying to appeal to his brother. But the fact that he did it so easily here suggests that even that bit of morality was him just trying to model himself after his image of his brother.
It's sad because I don't think this is Jimmy changing into a worse person, this is just his true, authentic self. And there's something particularly meloncholic about having to revise your memories from where you liked him with knowledge that that was all fake.
I imagine that's how Nacho's dad felt. It's not just Nacho disappointed him in that moment, but the times where he thought Nacho was out of the game and proud of him for it, turns out he's still in.
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
Underrated post.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Yup.
This is the episode.
Jimmy went full Saul.
Everyone is making shitty, shitty decisions this episode.
Chuck is fucking up. Kim is fucking up. Jimmy is fucking up. Nacho is fucked. Mike signed his life away.
This is the episode.
Jimmy went full Saul.
Everyone is making shitty, shitty decisions this episode.
Chuck is fucking up. Kim is fucking up. Jimmy is fucking up. Nacho is fucked. Mike signed his life away.
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
From Sepinwall's review:
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
And the thing is, even though it looks like the seniors are all going to get their hefty settlement payouts, Irene's relationships with the other women may never be repaired.
Retirement homes can be lonely places, even with friends...
flaxknuckles
Member
Wow I hate Jimmy now. Didn't even hesitate to screw that old lady over. I feel so sorry for her. I thought Jimmy was just trying to get some money selling shoes . Hell his lie about his girlfriend ticked me off.
Did Nacho know the poison wasn't fast acting and he was going to have to tell his father about the deal? Or did the poison just straight up not work?
Damn Kim. Should have combined firms with Jimmy to take the load off. I bet he would have found some sneaky way to offload the work or cheat it.
On my #FuckChuck shit again right after I started rooting for him smh. GO HOWARD!!!
. Hell his lie about his girlfriend ticked me off. Did Nacho know the poison wasn't fast acting and he was going to have to tell his father about the deal? Or did the poison just straight up not work?
Damn Kim. Should have combined firms with Jimmy to take the load off. I bet he would have found some sneaky way to offload the work or cheat it.
On my #FuckChuck shit again right after I started rooting for him smh. GO HOWARD!!!
He didn't poison Hector. He replaced his medicine with Ibuprofen. It didn't work more because I think the stroke just went away on it's own.
Edit: alternatively, Gus interfered like he did with Mike.
Hatred ended with Chuck
Now Jimmy is my most hated
First time for everything.
Irene is a saint.
I agree on all the anti-Jimmy sentiment. Totally unforgivable. (One of the neat things about the various layers of this show is that, in the big picture, one could argue he's doing right by the seniors. Another 10 or even 20%? Pffft.)
With regard to Kim, it could be said she's done this to herself, but you really see this season that she seems driven to this in some way by Jimmy -- either she doesn't want to see him as he is now or she's driven to be the perfect lawyer for every shortcut or slip by Jimmy. I don't see there being another season worth of a relationship there, if that's even what they've had this year.
Poor Nacho. Knows what's coming and it seems like he can't stop it (and yeah, not poison, folks).
I generally didn't mind Howard, after it became clear he wasn't who stood in Jimmy's way -- and he's frequently been a voice of reason (the chief negative being his screwing over of Kim). Interesting to see Chuck turn his legal pain-in-the-assery on him.
With regard to Kim, it could be said she's done this to herself, but you really see this season that she seems driven to this in some way by Jimmy -- either she doesn't want to see him as he is now or she's driven to be the perfect lawyer for every shortcut or slip by Jimmy. I don't see there being another season worth of a relationship there, if that's even what they've had this year.
Poor Nacho. Knows what's coming and it seems like he can't stop it (and yeah, not poison, folks).
I generally didn't mind Howard, after it became clear he wasn't who stood in Jimmy's way -- and he's frequently been a voice of reason (the chief negative being his screwing over of Kim). Interesting to see Chuck turn his legal pain-in-the-assery on him.
Also let's not forget Kim
How is Nacho, a gangster one of the more sympathetic guys in the cast
Also Howard while petty is doing what's best for the firm
Kim's car crash made me pretty upset. I was thinking just as she was sitting there driving, 'poor kim, she works so hard', maximum empathy levels and then that cruel cut...Sometimes characters go beyond interesting/fun to the point where you just like and respect them as people. Kim's kind of done that for me this season and I want her to be happy, not have car crashes anymore.
Regarding Jimmy's shift into moral decreptitude:
I think it would be a mistake by the writers to really give Jimmy the full Walter White treatment. This episode really reminded me of how they would do that - make Walter seem sympathetic for a time, then have an episode where he crosses a line far beyond what you thought he might be capable of and rendering him as more and more grotesque. It works, functionally, to transform how the character appears, but even in Breaking Bad I thought it was quite clunky at times. There were moments, such as the poisoning of a child, where I thought not only is that stretching my disbelief as to something he would even think to do as a plan to get out of this situation, but a stretch of the limits of the character. That plot could have been done, but it felt like too big a jump, because they were dead set on hammering home that Walter Is Bad Now. Basically, I just didn't buy it, but I accepted this was where the character was headed, even if I didn't like all of the stops getting there.
With Jimmy, he's not going to become a monster. He's been presented, until now, as someone with far too much inherent humanity to be somebody who could realistically become one. I don't believe the Jimmy before this episode would coldly manipulate an old lady the way he did here, it stretches my disbelief both in terms of plot (he went to extreme, convoluted lengths) and in terms of character (he's too much of a soft touch). What I think they could have done to alleviate this would have been to put in a moment during his conversation with Howard where Jimmy expresses his frustration and desperation. He isn't 'greedy', he's trying to hold on to the life he has, which he has worked very hard for, and mostly legitimately. Chuck, and Howard, played roles in threatening that, and on Chuck's part largely out of malice and superiority. He feels as if he's forced into a corner.
We know Jimmy is eventually going to work for criminals and make his money doing very shady things, but even in Breaking Bad he always just seemed ready to take part in nefarious activities that were happening without him anyway. That's a bit different than going out of his own way to manipulate an old lady, so I don't think he should really become any more reprehensible than this. He's desperate here, but I don't think the next step for the character should be that he enacts a plan this horrible without desperation being his motivation. That begins to become a retread of Breaking Bad. I don't want to just hate Jimmy for being a slimey piece of shit who ruins people's lives, at least not entirely.
So Jimmy is looking bad right now, but I hope it isn't a permanent shift into moral decreptitude from here on out and the basic decency and empathy he's shown before are gone completely. This is a moment of desperation for him, but I feel like we weren't given insight into that in the writing, it was too judgmental of him and presented him as too much of a bastard. This, I think, is an old habit from writing Walter White and I hope the writer's give his continued slide into criminal territory a bit more nuance going ahead.
I think it would be a mistake by the writers to really give Jimmy the full Walter White treatment. This episode really reminded me of how they would do that - make Walter seem sympathetic for a time, then have an episode where he crosses a line far beyond what you thought he might be capable of and rendering him as more and more grotesque. It works, functionally, to transform how the character appears, but even in Breaking Bad I thought it was quite clunky at times. There were moments, such as the poisoning of a child, where I thought not only is that stretching my disbelief as to something he would even think to do as a plan to get out of this situation, but a stretch of the limits of the character. That plot could have been done, but it felt like too big a jump, because they were dead set on hammering home that Walter Is Bad Now. Basically, I just didn't buy it, but I accepted this was where the character was headed, even if I didn't like all of the stops getting there.
With Jimmy, he's not going to become a monster. He's been presented, until now, as someone with far too much inherent humanity to be somebody who could realistically become one. I don't believe the Jimmy before this episode would coldly manipulate an old lady the way he did here, it stretches my disbelief both in terms of plot (he went to extreme, convoluted lengths) and in terms of character (he's too much of a soft touch). What I think they could have done to alleviate this would have been to put in a moment during his conversation with Howard where Jimmy expresses his frustration and desperation. He isn't 'greedy', he's trying to hold on to the life he has, which he has worked very hard for, and mostly legitimately. Chuck, and Howard, played roles in threatening that, and on Chuck's part largely out of malice and superiority. He feels as if he's forced into a corner.
We know Jimmy is eventually going to work for criminals and make his money doing very shady things, but even in Breaking Bad he always just seemed ready to take part in nefarious activities that were happening without him anyway. That's a bit different than going out of his own way to manipulate an old lady, so I don't think he should really become any more reprehensible than this. He's desperate here, but I don't think the next step for the character should be that he enacts a plan this horrible without desperation being his motivation. That begins to become a retread of Breaking Bad. I don't want to just hate Jimmy for being a slimey piece of shit who ruins people's lives, at least not entirely.
So Jimmy is looking bad right now, but I hope it isn't a permanent shift into moral decreptitude from here on out and the basic decency and empathy he's shown before are gone completely. This is a moment of desperation for him, but I feel like we weren't given insight into that in the writing, it was too judgmental of him and presented him as too much of a bastard. This, I think, is an old habit from writing Walter White and I hope the writer's give his continued slide into criminal territory a bit more nuance going ahead.
As others have said, what really pisses me off about it is that she's an elderly. It's not like she can just make new friends just like that.
I assumed he didn't mention Kim because she was complicit in tearing down Chuck, albeit sympathetic towards him afterwards. So I just went for the easy answer and said Irene lol
Almost gave me a heart attack. So sudden.
I was expecting to end on an artsy driving shot.
Grizzlyjin
Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
Poor Irene. Poor Kim. All the sweet baby angels on this show are getting done so dirty.
I was warming up to Howard, but that little move with the money was so fucking disgusting. Kinda hoping Chuck just fleeces HHM in court.
I was warming up to Howard, but that little move with the money was so fucking disgusting. Kinda hoping Chuck just fleeces HHM in court.
Neverender
Member
Fucking hell, I've never felt more uncomfortable watching something in my life.
I'm new be nice
Member
Irene got what she deserved. Maybe she should have considered the feelings of her friends.
Straight up, that was some low balling.
Straight up, that was some low balling.
crisdecuba
Member
It's been set up throughout the season. Do you just mean stupid as in "I didn't like it" or do you mean "this is poorly executed, bad writing, etc"
Then they are start making crystal meth... with Jesse.
KIM NOOO 😭
I assume she did out of exhaustion from overworking herself
Jimmy is going to have to become someone that makes a living out of keeping drunk drivers, drug dealers, and murderers out on the street. He's a real bad guy. We were talking a few pages ago about how impossible it seems that Jimmy is going to become the Saul of BB. This is a good step in the direction. At some point, he has to stop giving a shit about doing the right thing.
I mean how much humanity and decency is there in this person?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQAE8LrnnwY
He's just totally selfish as Saul. He doesn't care about the victims of his clients. He just wants money. When Badger, Jesse, and Hank become nuisances, he immediately jumps to the option of having them be murdered.
Unlike Walt, I don't think Saul ever lies to himself and tells himself that he's doing bad for a noble purpose or because he's forced to. The writers probably don't want to use desperation as an excuse because his growing lack of care is the change. Walt is the guy that does things out of desperation. Saul is the guy that does things because he's a piece of shit, he knows it, and doesn't care.
This goes along with him telling the insurance people that his brother is crazy and scaring Kim at a bar. He didn't do those two things out of desperation.
All of a sudden, I'm really liking this season. I was expecting to be critical of these two final episodes for a lack of progress. But I think it's all starting to come together nicely.
When Kim almost crashed into the oil rig I was mouthing 'Don't you dare Vince, don't you dare!'. When she was driving at the end and I knew something was coming I was like "DON'T YOU GODDAMN DARE KILL OFF KIM."
Wonderful epsiode. I think we are now seeing Saul in essentially full flight, and it's not pretty. The Irene stuff was heartbreaking...
The final episode is going to be mental! If they cancel this show I'll burn down Sony HQ myself.
Wonderful epsiode. I think we are now seeing Saul in essentially full flight, and it's not pretty. The Irene stuff was heartbreaking...
The final episode is going to be mental! If they cancel this show I'll burn down Sony HQ myself.
IggyChooChoo
Member
So anyone else think Kim is going to leave Jimmy after somehow finding out what he did to Irene?
I was thinking about her finding out about what he did to Chuck