Is causally calling people racist racism?
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Black Lives Matter shuts down a Bernie Sanders rally
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Is causally calling people racist racism?
Jeevesmeister
Banned
He also was planning to speak about racial inequality at the speech these same people took over yesterday. It's pretty telling.
This is a fantasy. Watching Twitter as this was unfolding yesterday and if anything I saw just as many black voters expressing frustration with these activists yesterday as there were in favor of it. These activists aren't tied to BLM and BLM isn't a monolith of the entirety of the black vote. If you're not going to vote for Sanders because of some of his supporters then that's entirely laughable, as someone who remembers Hillaryis44 and honestly, to quote someone from Twitter,
This is more to deal with the Internet and the corporate controlled democratization of letting everyone speak to one another than a specific issue for Sanders to address. If people want to change the status quo, its going to be hard, and its going to be met with resistance - not that they're wrong, but to expect and shame people for not handing them everything on a silver platter on their hands and knees is ridiculous - Sanders gave up space for these people to speak and has made considerable changes to try and appeal to these people.
To make excuses for not going after Hillary and the Republicans because "its hard" does nothing but further the ideal that BLM is a weak, irrelevant fringe group, which it certainly isn't, but this is an election season where you have to actually convince people, not just be more right than them and feel good about yourself. The Republican establishment and hell, Hillary to the same degree are relying on shutting out critical voices as much as possible so they don't have to hear them. Just giving up and settling for the guy who has shown himself to be actually willing to listen and treating him as just another disingenuous white liberal racist supremacist to talk down to like he doesn't care and doesn't know anything doesn't really convince anyone of anything.
White people are still nearly 80 percent of the nation and the majority of the voting bloc. Yeah, you might have to actually convince them. It's not pretty and there's going to be uncomfortable compromises, sure, but pissing this all away while the Republicans are in the middle of getting their shit together behind Trump will only serve to make things even worse across the board.
There's respectability politics and tone arguments and then there's making excuses for outright ineptitude to construct a false narrative where black activists are demanding the Baltimore mayor that pushed "zero tolerance" policing be the example to follow - moving goalposts and playing ignorant when somebody is making constructive progress to address the grievances made.
Besides, who is going to take Sanders spot? Jim Webb, the Hollywood screenwritter who wrote Samuel L. Jackson screaming "WASTE THE MOTHERFUCKERS" at his squad to mow down a bunch of Arabic civilians? Mind you, the end of this film concludes that this was actually a good thing.
This is one of the most brutally depressing election seasons in recent history and siding with people declaring "#bowdownbernie" when his father was a holocaust survivor who had their entire family wiped out is brutally pathetic. Sanders has done nothing but give up the podium and prove himself open to hearing what BLM has to say. His supporters are to some extent rightfully frustrated to see bastions of white power go pathetically unchallenged while someone willing to listen and make changes is hounded as some disingenuous white liberal supremacist.
Shao Kahn on the Lawn
Member
Disagreeing with rhetoric and methodology should not immediately earn a person the classification of being a racist. Your post basically deifies the messaging of BLM and completely precludes the possibility that their efforts could be constructed in a more productive manner. Worse still, you're silencing any recommendations by non-minorities regardless of their merits.
You're free to operate however you want but don't delude yourself into thinking that every person that is criticizing is against you. That kind of absolutism and exclusionary thinking didn't work for OWS and it won't work for BLM.
Dunno.
I'm simply calling racism, racism. Casual or otherwise.
What I'm referring to is not criticism. It's outright attack or ignorance. I'm critical of certain elements of the movement myself but a cursory look at this thread should enlighten you to what I'm talking about.
Aaronology
Member
Agreed.
Also agreed.
No. Sorry. I haven't seen that here. Just extreme defensiveness from people who take any criticism of BLM as criticism of black people and/or black issues.
Some are, no doubt. I'm unfortunately acquainted with some of the most racist liberals I've ever known at the moment and that's exactly what they've done. But in general and specifically in this thread? Sorry, no.
Perhaps I wasn't clear. My question wasn't referring to what you said.
I was referring to the two women on stage calling the crowd white supremacists for booing her.
dehydratedbabies
Member
I understand the criticism of the focus on economic issues that Bernie Sanders and his supporters have. Aside from listening to and appreciating these criticisms, what specific actions should his supporters take? Honest question, as I'm trying to figure out how I can help.
Shao Kahn on the Lawn
Member
I'm not the only person in this thread that has read it, read your posts, and is wondering what the fuck you're talking about.
Pretty much. This is like seeing poor people voting republican because they don't realize their policies are against them, but even worse than that. Because, tell me, how often do you see a candidate pushing for money out of politics, for powers back to the people, for the end of discrimination and poverty so much? It's pretty unique in the world, but apparently because he isn't saying things "the right way" he's just another old white racist. As an european of one of the most socialist countries there are on earth, i bleed everytime i listen to supposed "left" winged party in my country that spout the corp. doctrine of less worker rights, less social mobility, less security, more police and shit as the only solution to the "problem" of stagnant growth.
If he can't even get people to listen at him, we deserve whatever distopian future we're getting, we deserve to be discriminated and killed because we're poor and stupid, and didn't want to actually contribute for change the one time we could, because we didn't want to believe or compromise, because we just wanted to be angry against everyone that isn't us.
If anything, I think pictures like that will hurt Bernie Sanders.
What's horrible is that he has been talking about race issues long before the Netroots disruption. His senate page is filled with him posting issues on race in America. He commented on the Ferguson situation as it was developing rather than waiting for the smoke to clear (including condemning the militarization of the police response to the protests). He also has one of the best voting records in the Senate on minority issues, almost always consistently voting for issues that deal with providing under-represented people a larger voice.
I know a lot of people are saying - well - he just needs to engage the group better.
That maybe true - but if the movement wants significant engagement, the first step to get that should be by being honest about Sanders' record and not trying to tie him to racist policies that they are fighting against. This is what causes the defensive part of Bernie's supporters to come out. It's not that Bernie's supporters just want him to talk about 'their issue' (economic according to some), but when you have Sanders' supporters being accused of being 'white racists' and Sanders being accused of 'not doing enough', it's easy to see where defensiveness comes from.
It's not that this justifies the response that some people are giving to black activists on the matter, but open engagement has to go both ways. And the problem that Democrats and liberals and Black lives matter activists have right now is that they are far more interested in talking over one another than realizing that they are all on the same side,
Stuff like this is getting to the front page of imgur and getting thousands of votes, those Black Lives Matter protesters really have to stop going after Bernie because ultimately they're going to be doing more harm than good in the eyes of white people.
Whatever that meme is called is almost exclusively used for people to expressed overtly racist or socially unacceptable views.
So it doesn't surprise me that a racist would use it.
Bernie won't bully back, and ignorance prevails. Terrible irony considering Clinton is such a terrible candidate for the black demographic, and minorities in general really
Jeevesmeister
Banned
You know what, I take back everything I said.
He had no security with which to handle them. He couldn't even get to the microphone. Most politicians have security to keep people off the stage, and if the heckler doesn't shut up after a while they get thrown out.
Those few, rude Bernie supporters on Twitter don't speak for all of them, much less for Bernie himself. In the same way, those BLM activists disrupting the meetings and speeches don't speak for all BLM supporters, and they obviously don't speak for all black people. It's similar to Occupy, where there'd be a small percentage of overzealous, vocal people who'd constantly demand all the attention, making it nigh impossible for a reasonable discussion to take place.
Also, was this latest action even put up to a vote? I don't know how BLM comes up with what they're doing, whether it's via Twitter or what. The BLM website hasn't been updated since April, and the Seattle BLM page on facebook was created yesterday.
Also, was this latest action even put up to a vote? I don't know how BLM comes up with what they're doing, whether it's via Twitter or what. The BLM website hasn't been updated since April, and the Seattle BLM page on facebook was created yesterday.
Could he not get to the microphone, or did he not even bother trying? Because the footage I've seen shows a man who was even't attempting to take control or engage what was happening on that stage.
Well it would look just fantastic on video if he pushed them off the stage, wouldn't it?
Shao Kahn on the Lawn
Member
Do you have any idea what it would look like for an old white man to be wrestling over a microphone with a young black woman?
If the only option Bernie Sanders could see to control the situation was violence then, yeah, he'd deserve that bad press.
What did you want him to do?
bengraven
Member
On my Facebook, the same people who wanted Ron Paul are all about Bernie Sanders.
I guess it just makes people feel edgy.
One of them was like "shit, Bernie is campaigning in town, but I was going to spend 4 days up north at the cabin with my new gf". I asked him if the gf was going to be around in 6 months. "I hope so". Then stick with her, because Bernie won't be.
I guess it just makes people feel edgy.
One of them was like "shit, Bernie is campaigning in town, but I was going to spend 4 days up north at the cabin with my new gf". I asked him if the gf was going to be around in 6 months. "I hope so". Then stick with her, because Bernie won't be.
PopcornMegaphone
Banned
He should have brought some old school Irish cops to handle the situation.
jakonovski
Member
#AnyoneButBernie2016
This is kinda surreal.
This is kinda surreal.
The sentiment I am most focused on is the direct comparisons to Occupy Wall Street that try to paint BLM and the modern civil rights movement as directionless, bordering on incompetent and ineffectual. All based on the actions of a half dozen men and women across a few weeks time.
Something on the scale of what would be necessary to protest the current injustice black americans face would be nearly impossible to head - it is no monolith. BLM is quite literally the manifestation of the righteous indignation of millions, and it is in the awkward position of conforming to a political platform. A couple black women crash a Bernie Sanders rally, but it is received as a pointed attack from the black establishment. This is how we get goofy responses like the bear image macro above, and several posts speaking to the belief that this makes BLM look bad or subverts the legitimacy of the entire movement.
And to add further awkwardness to the affair, the common defense to these situations is Bernie's stances and policies, as if that is a silver bullet that should mollify all criticism. It comes off as patronizing and dismissive and doesn't really address the tension, which from certain sections of the black community is perpetuated by the belief that Bernie is not really for them. When your best answer is that he marched with MLK, or that he's the best we're gonna get, the charge remains unsettled, and that's the disconnect. The extra blowback is only further aggravating.
Discussion would be constructive, and I feel it's coming soon. Bernie will obviously address the situation fully, to keep his appearances from being crashed if nothing else.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
Here were his options
1) Use force to take back the mic
2) Interrupt them and get into a verbal argument in front of everyone.
3) Let them do what they do, shut the day down and go talk to your people about how to never let this shit happen ever again.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
We've already seen how the protestors aren't caring about his responses. He's doing what they want and they still protest. He can't win this. Other candidates aren't letting these protesters in so they go after him. This won't stop until he gets better security.
Bernie was a guest speaker at this event and had to go to his rally so he left.
Jeevesmeister
Banned
He did let them finish. And then they refused to let him speak so he left to go to his other engagement, the actually rally for his campaign which drew 15,000+, when this no longer was possible.
If you want to just make up a narrative to prove yourself right then actually engage with what took place, go right ahead, but don't act like its based in any sort of reality.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
They weren't there to hear Sanders response, they were there to cause a scene and get on the news.
And why should they have that right considering they were not invited onto the stage?
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
We've already seen that the protesters don't actually care about what people say, their job isn't to listen, their job is to get attention
It's not their stage, Bernie is under zero obligation to listen and respond to them, let alone with compassion.
Their 'concerns' were to call everyone in the audience racist for not liking that they stormed the stage. They are not reasonable people. They do not deserve their air time.
When told that they would be given a slot to speak, they screamed that they were being silenced.
Again, watch the video.
Dicktatorship
Junior Member
File under "Mature"
EDIT: NSFW
Guys I'm sorry, I forgot not everyone is familiar with BLACKED.com, and I honestly didn't mean for anyone to visit the website hahaha.
I was implying that Bernie's chances of getting elected were fucked, and since it was by black people and the figurative fucking is interracial I made the picture.
And yes, you still respond to those people with compassion. I mean, we see where the "Don't you know who I am? I'm not responding to this." approach has gotten Bernie.
But hey, he's free to keep doing it.
How could he respond with compassion when they weren't letting him near the microphone?
Oh great now I have to clear my history
Zeus Molecules
illegal immigrants are stealing our air
File under "Mature"
ummm that url isn't a political website at all. Its nsfw
Holy shit I just typed that url. Luckily I am not at work.
Kid Kamikaze10
Member
Ugh, I said I was done, but I have to address this.
People keep saying this is impossible or some shit, when someone with a way worse history than Bernie was able to do this.
If fucking O'Malley can do this while saying shit like "white lives matter", Bernie can too. But he hasn't. THAT'S ON HIM
Get your standards up people, Bernie knows he needs to do better as his campaign have made steps, it's about time you guys start asking him to as well.
People keep saying this is impossible or some shit, when someone with a way worse history than Bernie was able to do this.
If fucking O'Malley can do this while saying shit like "white lives matter", Bernie can too. But he hasn't. THAT'S ON HIM
Get your standards up people, Bernie knows he needs to do better as his campaign have made steps, it's about time you guys start asking him to as well.
jakonovski
Member
Now that Sanders is sunk for sure (only 99.9% sure before this), there will not be a president who gives a flying fuck about the race issue.
What now?
What now?
The O'Malley protestors weren't screaming that the audience were white supremacists. And once they were finished, they handed back the microphone so he could actually respond.
They showed far more respect and tact and were willing to share the stage. Not so in this instance.
Jeevesmeister
Banned
If anything he's just doing fine without making false promises and total pie in the sky nonsense like O'Malley. Sanders is still growing momentum and his supporters are growing more and more, not just in number but attachment to his cause.
It's BLM that is losing because of this.
It's BLM that is losing because of this.
Exactly.
It's like Bernie's supporters want to dismiss O'Malley because of his history, but that doesn't change the fact that BLM went in on him every bit as much as they Bernie at Netroots, but O'Malley got them off his back with a quickness and didn't have to kill his campaign to o it.
Why Bernie can't do this is apparently a mystery. It's like Bernie's own supporters view him as weak.
We'll get Scott Walker. For sure he's taking the plight of African Americans seriously.
It's weird to me that you seem to categorize Sanders' response as being an elitist 'Don't you know who I am?' response. I don't read it that way from Sanders at all. Personally, I see a guy who is highly confused as to why he is being targeted by these protests, is torn by supporting a message but understanding how significant the disruptions are to his chances of being elected, and is having significant difficulty crafting a response that satisfies the protesters despite him addressing (multiple times) all of the issues that the protesters have brought up (and yet he still gets targeted).
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