Black males most consistently under-performing demographic. What can be done?
- Thread starter ScOULaris
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wtf is this crap? My grandparents came to this country with less than $200 and barely spoke any English and managed to help put 4 kids through college and died a fairly comfortable man owning 2 restaurants and a bakery. Blacks grow up with many advantages that many immigrants lack yet the same old excuses about slavery are made. At least blacks can speak the language! I want to blame my current shortcomings on my ancestor's plight as well, blacks were running from slavery and mine were running from purges, cultural revolutions, famine, flooding and genocidal wars!SonnyBoy said:
Sorry, but it is a family and cultural thing. There are many legit criticisms of Tiger Moms and Disapproving Asian Dads (hilarious memes!), but at least having active parents who are involved in their kid's lives and educations get their kids through school. The mental scars well.. they're not perfect either =/
~Devil Trigger~
In favor of setting Muslim women on fire
the Ghetto Cycle
-Poor neighborhood
-Poor Social Environment
-Poor Schools
-Poor neighborhood + Poor Social Environment + Poor Schools = Poor Education
-Poor Education = Poor Paying Jobs
-Poor Paying Jobs = Affordable Housing
-Affordable Housing = in most cases in Poor neighborhood
Yea, some have escape this cycle, but its not the norm.
-Poor neighborhood
-Poor Social Environment
-Poor Schools
-Poor neighborhood + Poor Social Environment + Poor Schools = Poor Education
-Poor Education = Poor Paying Jobs
-Poor Paying Jobs = Affordable Housing
-Affordable Housing = in most cases in Poor neighborhood
Yea, some have escape this cycle, but its not the norm.
LOL @ people thinking music has anything to do with it. Music is a reflection of culture, not the builder of it. Just as other cultures were frowning upon violent rap music, black kids were laughing at kids cutting themselves to Lincoln Park and complaining about how bad their not-really-bad lives were. Goes both ways.
^^^This x100. Really just fucking spot-on.
As a few people in this thread point out a lot of black kids who place an importance on learning get made fun of in school for "acting white." That was definitely my experience growing up. But, thinking beyond just getting picked on, what this says to me as an adult was that those kids picked on me for "acting white" because they didn't think getting an education could amount to anything for a black person.
Exposure is the key. I can't stress enough the effect field trips had on me as a kid. Because a lot of black kids don't get to see these positive influences back home. Blacks didn't have the same opportunities available to them until relatively recently (and economically, a lot still don't), and the result of that is a lot of black kids having no idea what positive success even looks like, or what exactly goes into attaining it.
^^^This x100. Really just fucking spot-on.
As a few people in this thread point out a lot of black kids who place an importance on learning get made fun of in school for "acting white." That was definitely my experience growing up. But, thinking beyond just getting picked on, what this says to me as an adult was that those kids picked on me for "acting white" because they didn't think getting an education could amount to anything for a black person.
Exposure is the key. I can't stress enough the effect field trips had on me as a kid. Because a lot of black kids don't get to see these positive influences back home. Blacks didn't have the same opportunities available to them until relatively recently (and economically, a lot still don't), and the result of that is a lot of black kids having no idea what positive success even looks like, or what exactly goes into attaining it.
Dunk#7 said:
I meant it more towards your "if you have personal responsibility and you make the right choices, you'll be fine," which I don't believe is true at all. If the socioeconomic variables are stacked against you and stacked for someone else, through no fault of your own, the odds are against you. You could have all the personal responsibility and drive to succeed in the world, and you're still more likely to fail. Some will succeed. Most won't.
It's not just racism that's holding them down, or the racism that held down their parents and grandparents that also affects them. The drug war has dug a pit in black communities that's increasingly difficult to climb out of.
Agent Icebeezy
Welcome beautful toddler, Madison Elizabeth, to the horde!
crazy monkey said:
gutter_trash said:
Its all up to the person as well.
Raised by mom alone: Yes
Was dad in the picture: Barely
Music back in the day: No Limit
Now? 31 year old black male with an MBA in healthcare management. They can't blame the system and go woe as me all the damn time. I see it time and time again. If you really want something bad enough, you'll find a way. If you don't, you'll find excuses.
Can't be serious right? Apart from an ingrained mental history of inferiority, economically it's made a huge difference. White communities, businesses, and influence in politics have been active since the inception of the states. Now compare the 235 years whites have had to build up power bases in the united states. Black people were freed about one hundred fourty six years ago. Bit of a head start no? And it's not like they were anything resembling equal citizens up until the sixties.AiTM said:
There are a LOT of black posters on GAF.
la flama blanca
Banned
Hispanics aren't doing that well either. It's a shame, there are so few good role models.
the civil rights movement of the 60's not only had an impact on Black Americans. But an impact on the vast majority of minorities and oppressed group of people on earth. I think it's safe to say that the oppressed all over the world during that time, looked on at the black American struggle for equality in the 60's with reverence and as model to follow. And some of the rights minorities have in other countries, until this day, can be directly attributed to the struggle for equality in the US at that time.
what happened man 
D
Deleted member 1235
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SmokyDave said:
this is the key stat here. Single mum means poor. Poor means less schooling/lower intelligence/higher frustration/more crime etc etc
the problem needs money, but money to schools wont do shit. Single mums need good assistance otherwise the future gen just starts out fucked and costs everyone anyway.
Captain Sparrow
Banned
I say this as respectfully as possible, but the discussion that went on in this thread are reasons why racism exists and will never go away. I truly believe that no one really hates people by the color of their skin. However, many people are intolerant of cultures that are resistant to the norms of the society they live in.
dave is ok
aztek is ok
Men just need to grow the fuck up and be fathers.
Two out of three fathers not being around for their kid(s) is pathetic. I think most of the other problems stem from this
Two out of three fathers not being around for their kid(s) is pathetic. I think most of the other problems stem from this
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
ScOULaris said:The black male demographic has long been the worst performing ethnic/gender group with regard to education and employment in the United States. As of 2008/2009, the high school graduation rate for black males was 47% (page six of the link). Less than half of all black males graduating from high school naturally makes for some very grim employment prospects. The most recent unemployment data shows black males leading the pack once again with an unemployment rate averaging between 16% and 18%, over double the unemployment rates for white and Asian males, and higher than the female unemployment rate across all ethnic groups. When it comes to higher education, black males naturally fall below the curve as well, with a 33% college graduation rate as compared to black females' 49% and the across-the-board average of 57%.
For a bonus piece of data, black males are also dropping the ball with regard to parenting. As of 2009, 67% of black children in the U.S. are raised by a single parent, and in nearly every case it's a single mother.
That first link places most of the blame on poor facilities and teachers in schools with a large black population, but these numbers aren't far off from the well-funded and high-performing schools in Florida where I work. If you've worked in education before, surely you can attest that there is a social issue at play here that no amount of school funding could ever address.
The data is undeniable, and the trend over the last 20 years is not showing any sign of reversing in the near future. So I'll open up the thread with these two questions:
1. What is the most significant contributing factor here?
2. What, if anything, can be done about this?
They are very broad questions, I know, but the issue itself is widespread and nebulous to begin with. In a perfect world I wouldn't need to say this, but since it's GAF:
Please try to refrain from derailing this thread with blatant racism.
Rather than give the same armchair analysis that has probably been given time and time again, Ill point out some of the factors that go ignored from the perspective of a black man that grew up in a inner city area. Granted, life is alot easier where I live (U.K) than in the states for black males for many reasons, but the same allegories apply to a certain extent.
1) No concept of opportunity. This is far different from not having opportunity, This relates to the fact that for some black males, the opportunities that are available are not for them and they wont be accepted for them even if they try. there is a cultural view that "the man" is always going to try and hold them down no matter wehat they do and that people will ALWAYS discriminate against them because they are black. It is very common for another black person to tell you that you have to work twice as hard to get anything in life than your white counterpart and are the easiest to let go/kick out. While in my experience this is true in some cases, the majority of time its simple perception and more likely if an opportunity fails through for a black male, its because something they have done or not done which they should have. What happens over time, instead of seeing failures as feedback and looking at the areas that they are deficient in, they begin to fail back the time tested "those white people are rasist" excuse.
2) Wearing their blackness as a badge of honor. Black men, more than any other race I have encountered, have this thing about the fact that they are black makes the special in some way and they must share it with the world. I am just as guilty as any black man in overly promoting my culture and background in damn near everything I do. While in the right company, this is perfectly fine, there are times were it is goddamn inappropriate. Most of the time its something that is more subtle than others, like playing the most profanity ladden rap, when your driving up to work or with white co-workers in the car sometimes, its like you are daring people to have an issue with what you are doing just so you can call them rasist, when in actuality you are just being an asshole. I understand, part of it is just style, the natural extravagance and braggadocio that some black men have etc. But to someone who hasn't been brought up in the same culture, you just seem like you are being a cunt. You aren't "selling out" if you take other peoples feelings into account. which brings me to my third point.
3) An irrational fear of anything that isn't seen as "Black" as a black man, there are some cultural norms that you just shouldn't do, for no damn reason whatsoever. It varies from social circle to social circle, and alot is more tied to common sense more than anything, But even when taking that into account, almost every black male I have ever come across has at least one belief that he cannot do something on the sole pillar of logic that it is "just not what black people do" like I said some have more basis and some are harmless, like one i subscribe to:- "black people don't let animals sleep in their bed with them or lick their face", when these beliefs relate to bettering themselves or looking and making the most of opportunities, it holds them back. It is more pronounced in inner city circles and it tends to be the poorer you are and less educated, the more judgemental you are of anything that isn't within your own spere of influence and opportunity.
There are actually 4 more main ones that I can think of, but they require a bit more depth because they aren't easy topics to identify and fix. the ones listed above could be dealt with a simple attitude change. I do respect that some of this stuff is definitely not exclusive to black males, but for me, in my experience. this is the group where the problems are more pronounced. Another point id like to make is that I am not in anyway suggesting that is solely black males fault, there are plenty things that don't work in their favour that they cannot change, but for me. its pointless to worry about those things until we as race start to get the simple stuff down.
captmcblack
Member
That exposure is definitely a big thing. I was in an academic program as a child/teenager (Prep for Prep) that exposed me to a lot of things that simply aren't there in the ghetto. You don't know that you can actually strive for and achieve things outside of pro sports/music or being hood rich until you SEE it and even get to touch or taste it yourself. You have to KNOW that there is value in yourself. You have to KNOW it is plausible to reach it with effort. It's not enough to see it on TV. It's not enough to have some famous dudes tell you about it.
There are also a lot of psychological issues in black culture as a whole. When you get told for hundreds of years that you're subhuman, and then even after winning your legal humanity you continue to be made aware of your second-class standing in society, you start to believe it a little. Of course it's on us all to get over that and do our best to rise above it (I am an example of this)...but you have to understand that it's really hard to just do that to begin with.
People here are posting those "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" type things, like if they can do it then there should be no excuses for anyone else...but it's simply not like that for black people. Not yet, anyway. Maybe in a generation or two, but not now.
There are also a lot of psychological issues in black culture as a whole. When you get told for hundreds of years that you're subhuman, and then even after winning your legal humanity you continue to be made aware of your second-class standing in society, you start to believe it a little. Of course it's on us all to get over that and do our best to rise above it (I am an example of this)...but you have to understand that it's really hard to just do that to begin with.
People here are posting those "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" type things, like if they can do it then there should be no excuses for anyone else...but it's simply not like that for black people. Not yet, anyway. Maybe in a generation or two, but not now.
onken said:
But it was THAT way for them. The same way white/asian parents teach from their life lessons. My grandfather endured racism, so he's gonna teach my pops wut to look out for. My pops endured it, he's gonna teach me what to look out for and how to rise above it.
How can you get rid of that mentality when it's still highly debatable that there is true equality....? Depending on what u believe, it's not equal, so why teach ur child that?
He's not the only one.Londa said:
The big problem is we may fall into the trap of falling for the stats so we actually don't realize how many blacks on on Gaf (& probably other forums) living regular lives.
What's the point of learning about race unless it's a race based thread anyway?
He is Obama with a different political agenda. A hardworking black guy who made a success for himself and is now trying to make a name for himself. They both live the dream.Londa said:
Cain is not solely his politics. He has an opinion like everyione else and it's silly for blacks of all people to assume a hive mentality when that mentality clearly isn't working to their benefit. It's a fake unity.
When ones start acknowledging people like him or Thomas alongside Jackson & Sharpton, then they will understand how the better living half lives in complete freedom of thought. They get to pick their views at will which is pretty liberating.
CabbageRed
Member
Aside from my great grandmother, the person in my life who hated black people (or black males, really) the most was my Black Friend(tm) from high school. I didn't get it until I started eating over at his house and met his brothers and his brothers' friends. They were relentless in their berating him over... not being a dumb-ass. It was very awkward since they'd love to make comments about how we were twins or how they were looking for their brother but could only find two white guys. :/ I would be driven mad in a household like that. It was such a frustrating and depressing environment and I felt horrible for his mother.
East Asians have our own problems, mainly the Glass Ceiling where getting hired isn't that big of a problem, but we aren't seem as natural managers. But our culture's emphasis on family involvement and education seems to put us ahead of American blacks in terms of the whole graduating high school and not going to jail for drug dealing thing, even though we come to America with far more actual disadvantages and less physical resources. I'm convinced it is yourselves holding yourselves back for the most part. If you want to have a dick-measuring contest over who has the most fucked up history I'm sure Asia has you'all beat.SonnyBoy said:
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
SmokyDave said:
regarding institutional racism, there is alot of other factors that stem from immgration and the Caribbean diaspora vs the African diaspora vs the whites and indians, especially in the business world, but that might too big a topic for this thread.
That actually sounds like a genius idea for schools in bad areas. Integrate Scared Straight similarly to how they integrated the D.A.R.E. (Drug/Alcohol Resistance Education) program in Florida when I was a kid.Prologue said:
It probably wouldn't make a damn difference for 90% of those kids, but it might click with that other 10% who was on the fence between making good and bad decisions.
dave is ok said:
While I definitely won't say that single-parent households are ideal, I really don't think that alone solves the problem. After all, if the father's a fuck-up it's unlikely that his mere presence is going to be a positive effect on his kids.
Heck, it might even be detrimental. I knew a lot of boys in school who had gang-mentality and dismissive attitudes towards education ingrained in them by their fathers. This is what it is to be a man and what not.
CabbageRed said:
My mother took a recessive trait and came out very very fair skinned. Her family totally abused her for it. My brother secretly revealed to me that they hated her so badly cus she can pass for as being white that one of them tried to kill her once.
But, the effects of racism/slavery aren't still around.
Agent Icebeezy
Welcome beautful toddler, Madison Elizabeth, to the horde!
Azih said:
The game has changed. My folks are tenured at the automobile plants in the midwest. The United States is a different ball game now. We are a nation of services, not manufacturing and that change wasn't sudden, but it did catch far too many people sleeping at the wheel of their lives.
captmcblack
Member
No oppression olympics in this thread, please.
Discuss the OP's topic, please.
I beg you. I really want to know we can have real talk on GAF about shit like this.
Discuss the OP's topic, please.
I beg you. I really want to know we can have real talk on GAF about shit like this.
ChocolateCupcakes
Member
Oh lord, stop, please.Renmei said:
dskillzhtown
keep your strippers out of my American football
Mammoth Jones said:
Agreed. Me and my cousin had a 2 hour conversation about that. Those 101 years actually started a blueprint of what Black culture is today. I think many people have no clue about how long it takes for a people to overcome the history that black people have had to go through. That shit sticks with people, generation after generation. Harriet Tubman said that she could have saved many double the amount of slaves she did but many didn't know they were slaves, didn't think they had it that bad, and/or were afraid of freedom. That kind of mentality has stuck. It is reflected in people who are born in families on welfare and do not try to get out of that situation. The mentality has been passed down generation after generation. In reality, that mentality was a reality for most of that time. Up until the 60s, black people didn't have much of a chance to do much.
Each person has a choice, this is true. But if that is the mentality you are exposed to 24/7 for your early years (1-15), it is unlikely you change much.
This is a complex, complex, complex issue that warrants much conversation.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
People who say "I was raised in a single parent home and I turned out fine" are fighting statistics with anecdotes.
*shrug*SonnyBoy said:
Mute me if you want, keep in mind that it is *you* who allow your "history" to dictate and excuse your failures. A few generations ago my half my relatives were put in internment camps and treated as enemies of the state and a threat to national security and the other half were part of the only group ever to be denied entry (Chinese Exclusion Act). I suppose I could use that to feel victimized and hated in the US.. or not.
What is the point of this post? If you have no intention of contributing anything to the discussion besides "Hur! My people had it harder!" or even considering for a second that black people in the United States have a unique history that just might have contributed to their current social/economic standing why even bother?
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
Urgh. I shouldn't have wasted my finger muscles. Having read the whole thread, its clear the majority of this thread consists of people trying to impress their own misguided opinions on one another rather than actually listening to the people who actually have real insights on the situation and intelligently debating what can be done to change things. Its always the same when this subject comes up, even amongst black people. It makes the debate pointless.
im out.
im out.
SonnyBoy said:
I honestly would love to discuss everything. I want to see this issue solved. I really wish it were easier.
You have to believe that many people around the world want a fair, loving society. Why do we struggle so badly to make this happen.
It is so much easier to laugh and love then it is to yell and hate.
Topics like this make me frustrated because there is no easy answer and all I want is the answer lol
dave is ok
aztek is ok
If "all of it" consists of blaming slavery for black dads not sticking around for their kids two hundred years later, then no.SonnyBoy said:
Mammoth Jones said:
This this this this this. I remember a guy i knew at medical school said another black guy acted white, i am still pissed off with myself for not checking him because that corny black guy if shit ever went down in the medical field his "acting-white ass" would probably be more likely to help you for because for guess what "you're both black".
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