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[Satchel]

Good question. I've seen a lot of people giving a lot of weight to these, let's be honest, "no-name" studio's.

Curious to see if they are actually going to deliver the AAA megaton everyone is expecting them to.

Well, the Black Tusk game was literally the only positive thing CBOAT has ever said about Microsoft and Xbox so that's gotta count for something right?

 

[Doffen]

Microsoft has had a first party studio presence there for almost half a decade now with basically zero to show for it. Why is skepticism about what they have going on there "guilty until proven innocent"?

People are incredibly skeptical about The Last Guardian, far more than what Black Tusk is doing, and Ueda has actually released two all time great titles in the (semi) recent past.

Also, didn't they just post an add for a lead writer? That seems like the kind of position you'd have filled long ago for a title that is supposed to be well in development. Picking up guys from Dead Rising 3 which has just been wrapping up is also a dubious sign for when we'll actually see this project.

It isn't concern trolling when the concern is entirely valid.

You've got a right to be concerned about anything you want to be concerned about. Now there is a difference between Team Ico and Black Tusk, one of them announced a game back in 2009 and the other one just announced a title-less teaser back a few months ago.

Also you say that there is reason to be worried regarding late hiring of a lead writer, we do not know if this position will be for the current project nor do we have an estimated release date for the project they are supposedly working on. I would not be surprised if the game got released in late 2015 due to an seemingly already crowded 2014.

And yes I stand by my "guilty until proven innocent" comment. It takes time to found a AAA studio and it takes time to figure out what multimillion-dollar bag you should put all your eggs in.

 

[Hindle]

All studios start off as unproven, every developer has to start from scratch at some point, and there is trial and error for any new IP regardless of the studio. The reason why people are hyped about BTS is because they're a new AAA developer who are unpredictable in terms of the type of games they'll make.

 

[Doffen]

All studios start off as unproven, every developer has to start from scratch at some point, and there is trial and error for any new IP regardless of the studio. The reason why people are hyped about BTS is because they're a new AAA developer who are unpredictable in terms of the type of games they'll make.

Plus it is the first "from scratch new IP" studio from Microsoft since Turn 10.

 

[fantomena]

CBOAT mentioned that the project(s) in development at Black Tusk has been a rollercoaster and the reason we just saw a small short teaser for it at E3 was because it was delayed and not ready to be shown.

Im very excited about how big MS focus on games this gen will be. MS games focus on X360 the first years was incredible, then everything did go downhill and Sony destroyed them when it comes to games for the core. Just look at this year. PS4 releases first and PS3 has Ratchet, Ni No Kuni, Last of Us, GoW, Beyonds, GT6 and probably some more I forget. X360 has only had Gears.

There is a reason I always have said "Just because a company like Sony, Nintendo or MS have a strong launch lineup does it not mean they are serious about it". That's also about MS ID@Xbox. Just because they have it doesn't it mean they are serious about indie.

 

[Leflus]

This isn't really accurate.

Microsoft has multiple independent groups operating in Vancouver.

The "failed Kinect studio" you're referencing was Big Park and as well another team that was working on MS Flight.

Black Tusk is another group at MS in Vancouver that has existed long before Big Park was shut down.

I'd say that saying Big Park became Black Tusk is not accurate at all, though I have no idea if Black Tusk later hired anyone from Big Park. That's entirely possible.

BigPark is still alive, but it's no longer a game studio. They're currently working on apps for Xbox One.

Some of the developers that didn't want to work on apps are now working at Black Tusk Studios.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

I have no special info whatsoever. I just find things that are available on the internet.

This is the most I could find out timeline wise* (with some speculation):

• MS Vancouver has been around in some form since 2008 (it was once named Zipline Studios);
• There were multiple smaller teams within the studio, working on a casual MMO, a Kinect kids game, facebook/iOS games and some other small scale games (that were cancelled);
• The Black Tusk team was active too within the studio at the time;
• I think right after Disney Adventure came out, MS cancelled the Kinect kids game and every other casual type game that was being developed there.
• They layed off most of the staff that worked on the kids kinect game or some of them moved onto other projects (most left for iOS/facebook type companies though, like GREE). None of the Black Tusk folk left;
• They rebranded and became Black Tusk Studios. On this podcast Studio Manager Mike Crump talks about the new studio. At that time he said that 50 people were there, focused on one game and hopes to double the studio in a year;
• Ever wonderful superannuation gave away that Black Tusk is working on big new IP space shooter thing on the scale of a Gears or Halo. Lead designer of Crysis 2 is working on it.
• At this point they are on a hiring spree. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 and 11;
• CBoat said that Black Tusk project is running 6 months behind, so my guess is it will not hit next year.

That is about it, I think.

Thanks for that. It has put a lot of my fears to rest. Looks like they are serious about getting the right people in and investing time and money in the right areas unlike previous failed attempts to conjure AAA games. I would like them to make some key talent hires though to match the ambition.

 

[Doffen]

There is a reason I always have said "Just because a company like Sony, Nintendo or MS have a strong launch lineup does it not mean they are serious about it". That's also about MS ID@Xbox. Just because they have it doesn't it mean they are serious about indie.

Uhm. What?

 

[KAL2006]

You can't just create a good studio out of thin air, it takes time and even some bombs to let a studio grow into something special. That is why I am not excited with Xbox One. The only studio that interests me is Remedy, so I guess Quantum Break is interesting, also I like Respawn who are not owned by MS so TitanFall 2 can easily release on PS4. Not a fan of Halo series or 343 as well as Lionhead. All in all I think Sony has stronger Studios.

 

[TheOddOne]

I don't think this is a big deal, but it is strange that Geoff retweeted this while hyping up VGX stuff.



That seems like a weird thing to retweet.

 

[shinobi602]

^^Wouldn't be surprised to see another teaser from them at VGX to be honest.

 

[TheOddOne]

^^Wouldn't be surprised to see another teaser from them at VGX to be honest.

Seeing as most of the new games MS showed at E3 last year, that was not intended for launch, is going to be released next year, it could very well be a new teaser.

I don't expect it though.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

You can't just create a good studio out of thin air, it takes time and even some bombs to let a studio grow into something special.

I thought Valve's debut effort was rather decent. And so was Team ICO's. And also Turn 10's. Clover's was not bad either. CD Project RED also developed a fine debut game. So did Crytek. And Double Fine. And, yes, even 343i. There are many more examples, so I'd say that you can create a great studio from scratch. Of course, every team gets even better after spending some time together.

 

[HigherLevel]

I think MS's biggest problem with first-party studios are instability. They've never had devs outside of Turn 10 who have been around for a while and consistently released good games. Their best studio, Bungie, left, FASA and Ensemble were closed. Rare has been a complete mess since MS purchased them. Lionhead hasn't made a good game since 2008. 343 released a Halo game nobody wants to play. They didn't handle third-party partnerships well with devs like RTW who wanted to make a Crackdown 2 but were turned away, only for MS to have another studio do it later with only 8 months of dev time. Most of this happened under Mattrick's watch, and it will be interesting to see how much changes since he's gone.

They also could have thrown money at devs they had good relationships with like Cliffy B and Itagaki and had them build new studios at MS, but they didn't. They also haven't handled the studios they've built well. Black Tusk was at one point Zipline studios, a team working on a military Kinect shooter. Good Science was initially a team called Spawnpoint with a bunch of Gears of War devs. Big Park isn't making games anymore, just apps. Studios like Lift London, Soho Productions, and MS Los Angeles aren't even making games. Then they have new studios like MS Victoria and MS Osaka we know absolutely nothing about. It's kind of a mess over there.

 

[Big-E]

I think MS's biggest problem with first-party studios are instability. They've never had devs outside of Turn 10 who have been around for a while and consistently released good games. Their best studio, Bungie, left, FASA and Ensemble were closed. Rare has been a complete mess since MS purchased them. Lionhead hasn't made a good game since 2008. 343 released a Halo game nobody wants to play. They didn't handle third-party partnerships well with devs like RTW who wanted to make a Crackdown 2 but were turned away, only for MS to have another studio do it later with only 8 months of dev time. Most of this happened under Mattrick's watch, and it will be interesting to see how much changes since he's gone.

They also could have thrown money at devs they had good relationships with like Cliffy B and Itagaki and had them build new studios at MS, but they didn't. They also haven't handled the studios they've built well. Black Tusk was at one point Zipline studios, a team working on a military Kinect shooter. Good Science was initially a team called Spawnpoint with a bunch of Gears of War devs. Big Park isn't making games anymore, just apps. Studios like Lift London, Soho Productions, and MS Los Angeles aren't even making games. Then they have new studios like MS Victoria and MS Osaka we know absolutely nothing about. It's kind of a mess over there.

Good points and why I am highly skeptical of these new first party studios.

 

[Grief.exe]

Lead designer of Crysis 2 is working on it.

Sounds horrible.

 

[Doffen]

343 released a Halo game nobody wants to play.

"Nobody" is hyperbolic IMHO, but they did scare the core multiplayer fan base. Personally I enjoyed Halo 4.

They didn't handle third-party partnerships well with devs like RTW who wanted to make a Crackdown 2 but were turned away, only for MS to have another studio do it later with only 8 months of dev time.

After my knowledge Microsoft wanted a Crackdown sequel sooner than what RTW could deliver, since they where busy with the "soon to be a failure"; APB. So Microsoft gave the contract to newly founded Ruffian games which had developers from RTW, Lionhead, etc.
The lead designer for Crackdown, Billy Thomson also worked on Crackdown 2, but as the creative director.

They also could have thrown money at devs they had good relationships with like Cliffy B and Itagaki and had them build new studios at MS, but they didn't.

This I agree with. Xbox would benefit greatly by having Cliffy B and/or Itagaki on board.

Studios like Lift London, Soho Productions, and MS Los Angeles aren't even making games.

Lift London are "crafting games for tablets, smartphones and beyond".

http://www.liftlondon.com

Then they have new studios like MS Victoria and MS Osaka we know absolutely nothing about. It's kind of a mess over there.

I'm not going to pretend that I know how Microsoft Studios is organized, but calling it a mess just because we don't know enough about newly founded studios seems odd to me.

 

[fantomena]

Uhm. What?

Just because they have a indie program doe it not mean they "love" indies. I feel that this entire ID@Xbox is something like "Hey, we do also love and want indies on our platttforms, please come to us, we promise we won't hurt you!".

 

[Pain]

Hopefully they create the next big Microsoft IP and hopefully its not an FPS, at least not primarily.

 

[Doffen]

Just because they have a indie program doe it not mean they "love" indies. I feel that this entire ID@Xbox is something like "Hey, we do also love and want indies on our platttforms, please come to us, we promise we won't hurt you!".

This is not Microsoft first developer program. Please go and check out BizSpark.
What do you want from ID@Xbox that they are not offering? T-shirts where it says "Xbox <3 indies" or Steve Ballmer running around in street clapping while yelling "INDIES INDIES INDIES INDIES INDIES"?

 

[Stumpokapow]

I think it is a legitimate question. I see a lot of hype for the game coming from BTS, but there seems to be little to no substance behind that hype. A rebranded studio with a failed Kinect project in its past is not the best jumping off point for AAA development.

Where's the "lot of hype"?

 

[Doug Heffernan]

No offense OP, but that is really the most passive aggressive inquiry I've read today.

I really want to help answer your question, but I feel like you already made up your mind.

I agree. Such a passive aggressive post doesn't deserve a reply.

People change companies all the time, that's the business.

There are many former Naughty Dog and Guerrilla employees now working for Microsoft as well.

 

[LiquidSolid]

After my knowledge Microsoft wanted a Crackdown sequel sooner than what RTW could deliver, since they where busy with the "soon to be a failure"; APB. So Microsoft gave the contract to newly founded Ruffian games which had developers from RTW, Lionhead, etc.
The lead designer for Crackdown, Billy Thomson also worked on Crackdown 2, but as the creative director.

No. RTW wanted to make a sequel, Microsoft took too long to get back to them and so they decided to move on to another project, APB. Only after they'd started development on APB did Microsoft approach them and by then, it was too late.

Where's the "lot of hype"?

Probably hyped by the same people that talk about MS Osaka as if it means anything.

I agree. Such a passive aggressive post doesn't deserve a reply.

People change companies all the time, that's the business.

There are many former Naughty Dog and Guerrilla employees now working for Microsoft as well.

Source? I've only heard of a few, which is nothing out of the ordinary.

 

[Doffen]

No. RTW wanted to make a sequel, Microsoft took too long to get back to them and so they decided to move on to another project, APB. Only after they'd started development on APB did Microsoft approach them and by then, it was too late.

The APB project started as early as 2005 and got delayed due to development of the first Crackdown. They had already delayed the project once, why not do it again?
Maybe even RTW could have grown to a two team studios, instead a handful of key developers left and created Ruffian.
And speaking of badly administrated development, APB is a fine example of that.

 

[Leflus]

Probably hyped by the same people that talk about MS Osaka as if it means anything.

Uuhh. MS Osaka and Black Tusk Studios are not comparable at all.

Black Tusk has revealed a teaser for their first game.
We know what their ambitions are (AAA game, new IP, studio expansion to 100+ employees)
We know who's working there and what they might be capable of.

In comparison, there hasn't been a single bit of information about MS Osaka since it was "namedropped" back when MS revealed the Xbox One.

I'm not ready to get hyped for Black Tusk untill they've shown actual gameplay from their game, but let's not act as if Black Tusk Studios is some random name on a list.

 

[LiquidSolid]

Uuhh. MS Osaka and Black Tusk Studios are not comparable at all.

Black Tusk has revealed a teaser for their first game.
We know what their ambitions are (AAA game, new IP, studio expansion to 100+ employees)
We know who's working there and what they might be capable of.

In comparison, there hasn't been a single bit of information about MS Osaka since it was "namedropped" back when MS revealed the Xbox One.

I'm not ready to get hyped for Black Tusk untill they've shown actual gameplay from their game, but let's not act as if Black Tusk Studios is some random name on a list.

I didn't say they were comparable, I said the fans of both studios are probably one and the same. At this point, I think that supporting either studio is basically blind faith, as neither have released or shown anything. Unless of course Black Tusk are the ones that produced the CG teaser.

 

[JaggedSac]

I didn't say they were comparable, I said the fans of both studios are probably one and the same. At this point, I think that supporting either studio is basically blind faith, as neither have released or shown anything. Unless of course Black Tusk are the ones that produced the CG teaser.

Supporting? You mean looking forward to seeing what they are up to? Why would we not do that? This is a gaming enthusiast forum.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

I didn't say they were comparable, I said the fans of both studios are probably one and the same. At this point, I think that supporting either studio is basically blind faith, as neither have released or shown anything. Unless of course Black Tusk are the ones that produced the CG teaser.

It was CG? I thought it was in engine? Using UE4 too if I'm not mistaken...

 

[DJIzana]

Vancouver has quite a few larger studios set up here... EA's got their sports games being made here along with Need for Speed. Capcom has Dead Rising 3 being made here and best of all... United Front Games! Sleeping Dogs and the soon to be Triad Wars are also being made here. Oh... and Next Level Games which has made Luigi's Mansion 2 among some others.

Namco Bandai has a mobile gaming studio here along with a couple of other small studios too like Slant Six Games, Klei,

It really depends what type of games you're looking for but I guess we offer enough variety for everything.

 

[HigherLevel]

It was CG? I thought it was in engine? Using UE4 too if I'm not mistaken...

It was in engine.

 

[Leflus]

I didn't say they were comparable.

It's basically what you're saying by saying this:

I said the fans of both studios are probably one and the same. At this point, I think that supporting either studio is basically blind faith, as neither have released or shown anything. Unless of course Black Tusk are the ones that produced the CG teaser.

Most people are able to see the difference between Black Tusk Studios and MS Osaka. I'm one of them.

Unlike Black Tusk, MS Osaka is just a name on a list. We don't even know if it's going to be an actual game studio or some kind of incubation studio.

 

[Pound_lb003]

I thought Valve's debut effort was rather decent. And so was Team ICO's. And also Turn 10's. Clover's was not bad either. CD Project RED also developed a fine debut game. So did Crytek. And Double Fine. And, yes, even 343i. There are many more examples, so I'd say that you can create a great studio from scratch. Of course, every team gets even better after spending some time together.

Development is considerably different since most of those teams started their first game.

The difference between a $20m investment and a $100k investment for some. More relevant is the number of people involved, a 200+ team out of nowhere is a bit more of a challenge than all bar one of the teams you've listed.

And whether 343 is a good example is up for debate.

Regardless, and OT - I have spent 25 mins trawling LinkedIn and there is literally no one of exceptional note at Black Tusk. I imagine hiring for a studio with no history, or substantial IP to work on is quite difficult. There's a lot of ex-BigPark and Vancouver guys there - as well as ex-Relic. But no names I recognise.

There's a 'Transmedia Narrative Director', which does indeed infer it's going to be an important IP for Microsoft, and that they might do another TV crossover, like Halo.

But given what Cboat has said, I have faith it'll turn out. The teaser certainly looked cool. Reminded me of the Shanghai level in Splinter Cell.

 

[Hindle]

Osaka will still be in the formation stage IMO, possibly even earlier then that. I'm very interested in that studio though, there are a compete enigma. The idea of a AAA Japanese studio with the type of budget MS can bring is exciting.