lowhighkang_LHK
Member
Servers are still down? Damn I wanted to do some root chalice dungeons.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Bloodborne: The Old Hunters |OT| Old Hunters. New Tricks, Bells & Whistles.
- Thread starter Robot Pants
- Start date
0.1.1.2.3.5.8.13.21.34.55
Banned
So I've got a talking sack of meat and a dead end at the psudo top of the research hall/clock tower...
Am I too high to see the obvious path forward?
Am I too high to see the obvious path forward?
Disaster Nebraska
Banned
I do agree with your comment about Poise. Lots of weapons don't have hyperarmor attacks which is why I thought it odd that you'd be upset that Kirk didn't have it.
Regarding the "sweet spot", it does take some getting used to but I -- for instance -- will press R3 to lock on just as my charge-attack is about to swing and it hits them square 95% of the time. Also there are definitely some attacks on the Kirk that will carry through even if you get chipped, so I suppose it depends on which attack you're using.
How did you determine this? I equipped Kirk and LHB and compared their longsword side-by-side and played with the attacks a bit. The longswords look identical to me, including the length.
Only started using it ~15hrs ago but I agree it is a difficult weapon to master. Reminds me of the Hammer from MH which is the exact same situation -- you'll get outranged and knocked out of attacks all the time unless you learn to use the weapon properly, in which case it can be so good it's nearly broken.
For instance -- was staggering Defiled Watchdog and
Ludwig
0.1.1.2.3.5.8.13.21.34.55
Banned
Oh shit. Staircase, down.
if From Software/Sony is recommending a level of 65 for players accessing the DLC then why did they make it available after the Vicar Amelia boss fight...they should have made it available after Shadow of Yharnam or another area much later in the game when players would actually be at that level or above...makes no sense to have access to it so soon...did they not want to piss off players who didn't want to grind through that far?
finalflame
Banned
Because like every Souls game, it can be defeated at any level, 65 is simply a suggestion.
Here's a video of a guy beating the first DLC boss (spoiler) in NG+6 at Lv. 4 using the "Waste of Skin" class with basically no stats.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PGNxWyEm0I
As usual, the answer to these kinds of things is "git gud".
0.1.1.2.3.5.8.13.21.34.55
Banned
Featis worms
Gormless Noodle
Member
Also, think of access to weapons. There's quite a few in the first area alone.
Edit: On a sidenote, that vid also shows really well how to get around the jumping attacks for anyone having trouble with those.
It's certainly shorter. You can easily see it if you have them both equipped and simply switch between them. It's about a single in-game foot length shorter.
0.1.1.2.3.5.8.13.21.34.55
Banned
Turned it once... Which led me to the deadend, or so I thought. Just managed to die, will investigate further.
Edit. Wait, is there higher to go. Or is the trick the stair re-alignment?
I like the idea that someone is forcing Patrick to play it on NG+.
Just... don't? There's a bright and shiny New Game option on the main title. He should check it out.
Disaster Nebraska
Banned
Then I wasn't playing close enough attention, it seems.
Yeah, the hit stun from the weapon is tremendous relative to how fast it is.
yeah but we're talking about the average player who should be around Level 65...there's always going to be the outliers like the video you posted...that's far from the norm
xxRONN1Nxx
Member
Wow research hall is an amazing zone. Cleared it plus the boss. That area was so creepy insane. And had some tough trash mobs if you were not careful. Tried the next boss immediately after got her to 25% then gave up for night. Love this DLC. I'm on NG5+. My character is level 189 I think. After I finish this I will start a NG+6 run and do it again to cap my strength then I can use every weapon in game that I choose to get to plus 10 lol. But I'll prob only use the moonlight sword cause I'm still loving my skill weapons
JadedWriter
Member
Well I made it to the first shortcut a lot faster than I did with my weaker NG character. It's a lot easier when you know where the hell to go and you aren't too hobbled by weak weapons. My endurance is at like 24 now, sitting on 44 skill and 45 Bloodtinge.
Dominic_Shade
Member
On the one hand, I kind of get what they're saying. When I first heard of the Old Hunters DLC, my first thought was, "Sweet! How do we get to access it?", not, "Sweet! I can't wait to figure out how to access it!" I can't say I was very interested in learning how to enter the DLC in the game world, not after Dark Souls' Artorias of the Abyss run-around (though, I love that DLC dearly). Certainly, the game does give you an unskippable message concerning the use of the Eye of the Blood-Drunk Hunter, but IIRC a player who hasn't yet beaten Vicar Amelia will not know that she will get such a notification -- or that the defeat of Amelia is the trigger for it. When money is exchanged for new content, I understand that one would be a little antsy about how to experience said content.
On the flip-side, it is a bit disheartening that Mr. McElroy doesn't appear interested in rising up to the challenge of a NG+ playthrough of the DLC. Miyazaki's games are, after all, about overcoming challenges, alone or with the help of others. I wish I could give him a hand, but he seems very dead-set on his opinion. I can respect that.
An experienced player on NG can run through the Hunter's Nightmare and snag the Boom Hammer, Whirligig Saw, Beast Cutter, or Beasthunter Saif with ease. She can even make a suicide run for the Amygdala Arm if she chooses. And of course, a valuable weapon can also be acquired if a daring player is willing to take on the first DLC boss.
Being able to access the DLC after Vicar Amelia means these weapons can be obtained fairly early in one's playthrough. That's quite the advantage.
HalfBakedProphet
Member
100%'d old hunters, finally beat pthumerian queen and nabbed my platinum tonight.
Gonna take a break. Fantastic game and my favorite in the Souls series
Gonna take a break. Fantastic game and my favorite in the Souls series
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
I got Vermins just killing regular guys from the first area of the DLC.... all by myself, no coop with NPCs. I didn't remember from which enemy though--most probably all the Hunter guys.
Polygon gonna Polygon. Added to the long list of cringe inducing articles from them.
Imru al-Qays
Banned
Not having hyper armor affects slow weapons a lot more than quick weapons, though, and the Kirkhammer is pretty much the slowest weapon out there.
I've never been much of a fan of the Kirkhammer, since it seems like Ludwig's has most of the advantages without the annoying sweet spot issue. And with all the strength weapons added in the DLC, particularly the Whirligig Saw but also the Boom Hammer and Holy Moonlight Sword, even Ludwig's isn't as dominant as it used to be.
Souls games do not as a rule babyproof themselves with the average player's comfort in mind.
Gormless Noodle
Member
Statwise your fine then at least. And yeah it definitely helps, though I guess that goes for most of the game.
JadedWriter
Member
I need to put this character through more chalice dungeons though. Gem wise I'm alright, but I know there are way better ones, plus I want to 50 skill and bloodtinge. Sounds like I'm ok though. Can't wait to fight Ludwig with this character. Is level 177 good for NG++? 50 vit, skill, bloodtinge, 34 endurance and 34 strength I think.
FF Seraphim
Member
"You have a heart of gold don't let anybody... OH DEAR LORD ARE YOU STABBING ME?! WHY?!?! WHY ARE YOU STABBING ME?!"
Lets say no one stayed alive in that Nexus.
Gormless Noodle
Member
Yeah that should be more than fine really. Getting optimal gems is important then though, but 50 vitality alone should prevent you from getting one shotted by anything I think, even on higher NG levels (outside certain attacks from
Ludwig and Laurence
You're a freak. A FUCKING FREAK!
I'm on level 170 ++ and it's giving me fits, but my rust of not playing since March is more my issue
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
The fuck is wrong with you!!!
Chilli_Axe
Member
Finally killed the optional boss at level 4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVrQCZ1YD-s
Disaster Nebraska
Banned
I only recently started using Kirk after playing NG with Saw Spear and most of my NG+ with BoM. I bring that up because perhaps I'm just in the honeymoon phase. I do like the weapon and I've used it against bosses that seem to give other people difficulty in this thread (likeImru al-Qays;187507569 said:
Ludwig
When you're talking about hyperarmor and why you dislike the Kirk, are you bringing that up because -- for instance -- you wind up for a big attack and it gets interrupted? I want to make sure I'm understanding. In either case, yes, that's annoying but boils down to a timing issue. It's not impossible to land those hits, not at all.
Do other weapons have better hyperarmor and/or better range? Yes. Absolutely. Not including DLC weapons, the LHB (for example) has safer, longer-ranged pokes and swipes. It also has a much safer R2 charge with more range, though the charge itself takes about as much time to charge up as the Kirk. Does it make it a better weapon? Perhaps. There's a reason why LHB was one of the most popular weapons in vanilla. But I don't necessarily think that means Kirk is not a viable weapon. It simply has limitations like all weapons in the game do.
abstract alien
Member
Maxed Kirkhammer, and curious about which new weapon is best, or would best compliment me? I've only gotten first three weaoons,
as of now. Start upgrading one of these?
I love the Whirligig, but it seems pretty close to the Kirk as far as feel and functionality.
Beast Cutter, Boom Hammer, and Whirligig Saw
I love the Whirligig, but it seems pretty close to the Kirk as far as feel and functionality.
KittenMaster
Member
I personally determined that at minimum you should have a +6 weapon for the DLC because you can find Blood Chunks there. I have no idea what the actual recommended level or weapon level would be though, because I haven't beaten any of the bosses yet.
Fancy Clown
Member
Whirligig is da best. The other two are both really cool as well, but if you're gonna go with one of them I'd say beast cutter. Boom hammer is badass but its transform doesn't have much of a moveset, whereas the beast cutter is really versatile because it's basically a strength version of the threaded cane.Its also the most functionally different from your kirkhammer, as it gives you a ton of range in the whip mode.
Gormless Noodle
Member
Jezus Christ the face you gave that char, I spit my drink out.
Nice going though, impressive work. Although you got goddamn lucky that swipe near the end didn't one shot you
Why not go with the beast cutter? It's about as far as you can get in move set and is a serrated slashing weapon vs kirk's blunt/stabby type
FF Seraphim
Member
The fuck is wrong with you!!!
Mephistopheles greed and madness got to me... Since I already killed most everyone else why not everyone!
0.1.1.2.3.5.8.13.21.34.55
Banned
Sunflower fight on my first try. Though I burned 16 blood vials. They really multuliplied toward the end.
HalfBakedProphet
Member
R2 x2 on the transformed beast cutter is vicious. It's a good secondary weapon to Kirkhammer, LHB or MLGS
Dominic_Shade
Member
That fight gave me a fairly decent vision of what a Musou Souls would look like.
FF Seraphim
Member
The Whirligig is an excellent weapon, my only problem is that it doesn't seem as powerful as Ludwig's but the R2 charge sends almost anything flying and the ability to just hold L2 down on large enemies like Rom is great.
Be ballsy and use beast blood pellets with a nice serrated weapon. You'll get some good damage and stagger him more easily
Imru al-Qays
Banned
Well, my issue with the Kirkhammer isn't necessarily that I think it needs more hyper armor within the context of the Bloodborne systems. It's that I think the way Bloodborne works, with lots of quick enemies and no poise, naturally tends to favor weapons with a faster swing speed. But that's more of a general issue with slow weapons in this game: in a game where there is no (or very little) hyper armor, slow weapons will suffer disproportionately compared to fast weapons.
My problem with the Kirkhammer specifically is that it seems to be even slower than various alternative weapons (like Ludwig's, or more recently the Whirligig Saw), with a more restricted moveset, and no advantages I can point to that would outweigh those disadvantages. I don't think the Kirkhammer is better at poisebreaking big enemies than Ludwig's or the Saw, for instance.
Yeah but most other weapons in the game don't have a near-duplicate competitor weapon. Ludwig's and Kirkhammer are the two most similar weapons in the game, barring the Saw Cleaver and the Saw Spear, and so when one of them has more advantages than the other it's more apparent than, say, when comparing the Reiterpallasch and the Blade of Mercy.
Chilli_Axe
Member
Jezus Christ the face you gave that char, I spit my drink out.
Nice going though, impressive work. Although you got goddamn lucky that swipe near the end didn't one shot you
Thanks! The character's face makes it hard to pick out headgear sometimes, haha
0.1.1.2.3.5.8.13.21.34.55
Banned
She cut me good.
Cow Goes Moo
Member
DoubleTake
Member
SERVERS ARE ONLINE BOYS AND GIRLS