Board games: complexity vs accessibility

Munchkin from Steve Jackson Games has a very simple premise, now using the game-board / dungeon itself to keep score. Cards are used to determine a lot of gameplay; it is not a CCG, though. It's also very social, as you can make & break deals with your fellow gamers as you go. Opportunities for betrayal abound. :D

There are various Munchkin boxed sets, with different themes, or you can also pick up different themed packs of cards to bring to the game. (Those optional booster packs contain all the cards for that series or license; it's not a CCG)

Here's Wil Wheaton & pals giving the basic one a run through:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6oMBSiL7Zs

VmMy6q1.jpg
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meow said:
i just know I bought dead of winter 1.5 years ago and regret it because as soon as anyone sees the long instruction manual and billions of pieces, they never want to play. haven't played that game even once since getting it.
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This is me, but with Long nights. As soon as they heard me explain "On your turn you can do one of the following 7 actions" they bailed so fast.
 
TrueDefault said:
This is me, but with Long nights. As soon as they heard me explain "On your turn you can do one of the following 7 actions" they bailed so fast.
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Sounds like you guys need to find a group with similar interests. You can't force people to like games. Either they like simple fast paced games or they are up to learning something complex.
 
hotcyder said:
I've been trying to design a board game to solve this very issue!

A few years back I tried getting into a D&D campaign with a long term friend but ended up getting stuck on set-up, tracking stats and struggling to generate fun - despite the opportunities of the format.

Eventually we just ended up playing a few rounds of Talisman - which was far easier to set up and get into, despite being far more limited in scope.

I guess the problem is complex board games try to aim for too much simulation and sophistication - which is entirely on the players onus to commit to. Meanwhile games like Monopoly and Risk have their mechanics simple (dice rolls, cards) or has rules baked into the game itself - which keeps things quick and easy to pick up.

Of course it's very much different from people to people - same as a game like Cards Against Humanity being a game who's entire rate of success is based on the people you play it with and their sense of humour.
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That's funny, because I'm just finishing up something similar. Two years ago I produced a small edition of a game called Avdank, which is a dice (D10 to stick with the RPG inspiration) competition game with light RPG elements, as every character has a few attributes and usually a special ability. It's made to be played in around 30 minutes. (Avdank is a variation on the Swedish word for has-been.)

Since the characters are all based on RPG characters, it made sense to make a more RPG-focused variation, so Avdank Äventyr (Quest) has the same character cards used for various typical quests, with the addition of a loot system. Still everything is decided by D10 rolls.

It will also mostly be printed on demand, but I have considered translating and making a Kickstarter. Do you have any ideas on how to approach this?

avdank_hand.jpg


To make a non-promotional contribution, my favourite board games are Secret Hitler and Sherlock Holmes. The latter is a deduction game where you get a ton of materials to search and a choose-your-own-adventure style map where you can spend precious time looking up possible leads. Naturally, a group can only play each of the ten scenarios once.
 
I don't often play board games, but when I do, they tend to be simpler and luck-based. This is for a few reasons.

The first is that I tend to stop being able to pay attention after about 30 minutes. This is exacerbated by the fact that a few of our friends take ages taking their turn. I literally counted 6 minutes for one person to take his turn, when everyone else was taking less than one. As a result, we now have a 30-second turn rule for more complex games (if the game mechanics permit), and said person does not like that at all.

The second comes from cheating. Said 6-minute-turn friend and another have serious cheating habits. I end up not saying anything because they get really salty if you bring it up. If there is a game that I've noticed they have an easier time cheating on, I will not play it. I know, you shouldn't play with prolific cheaters, but it's still fun to play with them when they aren't cheating.

Here's my list of games that I enjoy playing.

- Machi-koro (I prefer the simplicity of the original without the expansions, but I don't not enjoy my time with them in)
- Ticket to Ride (Once again, certain expansions can dampen the fun for me)
- Parfum
- Hanabi
- Sushi-Go
- Celestia
- Costa Rica
 
Our current collection is
Kingdomino
7 wonders duel
Munchkin
Survive
Code names
Evolution
Splendor
Machi koro
One night ultimate werevolves
Sushi go
Ticket to ride (digital)
Smallworld (digital)

We also play kings of tokyo a lot but don't own it.

All of which are either easy or only moderately complex to learn.
 
One of the ones I was toying with for my nieces, actually, was Ticket To Ride - partially because I'd quite like an excuse to actually get around to buying a physical copy! Unfortunately, my gut says that I think they wouldn't take to the theming.

Still, I have it on my tablet, so maybe if they get interested I can bring that up for them.
 
mclem said:
One of the ones I was toying with for my nieces, actually, was Ticket To Ride - partially because I'd quite like an excuse to actually get around to buying a physical copy! Unfortunately, my gut says that I think they wouldn't take to the theming.

Still, I have it on my tablet, so maybe if they get interested I can bring that up for them.
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I got the major sets for ticket to ride. It's a family favourite. Very simple to set up and play for anyone else looking.
 
Flux said:
I got the major sets for ticket to ride. It's a family favourite. Very simple to set up and play for anyone else looking.
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Yeah, I love it whenever I've played it (always digitally, never owned in physical). I'm just not quite sure if they'll take to the look of the thing, they're not really trains-y people.

Maybe First Journey? Might be worth a look.


Edit: Oh, god, I'm a fool. Go for Ticket to Ride: Europe, and focus more on the geography side of things. We'll be in Europe, we'll be touring Europe, we can talk about the cities. Problem solved!
 
karnage10 said:
i didn't know there were so many board games fans here on GAF.
Can i hijack this thread to ask for CO-OP games (must be playable with 2 players)?

There are 2 games i enjoyed a lot which were eldritch horror and XCOM. The only person i can play with is my GF and she doesn't like competitive games.

I wanted to play board games with my friends but the distance we are from each other makes it impossible to play them. I'm hoping to get them to buy tabletop simulator so we can bypass the distance for now.
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To name a few more not mentioned, mansions of madness 2nd edition requires an app and a tablet but is another lovecraft themed game by the same people that made eldritch horror. This one feels significantly more thematic though, as you are actually participating in a story.

Sherlock holmes consulting detective is like a choose your own adventure but coop. Each turn you choose a place to go relevant to the case your on and either question the people there or the area looking for clues. Its entirely reading text though. They have prop newspapers to look through for clues as well.

Robinson crusoe. Trying to survive on an island while feeding yourselves and building shelter

Mice and mystics. A dungeon crawler game wgere you play as mice killing rats and cockroaches, but the game is one big long story split up into different sessions. There is a big storybook to read from so each game session is essentially a new chapter in a childrens book, until you get to the end and complete the story.
 
Great thread! A lot of questionable recommendations for newbies though, glad that StoOgE shut some of it down.

Personally my recommendations for gateway games:

1.) Catan - Easy to pick up, a blast to play. My group has moved to much more advanced games and still comes back to Catan on a regular basis.
2.) Splendor - REALLY easy to pick up, and much faster rounds than Catan. A lot of depth, but experienced players will absolutely trounce beginners so they need to pull their punches.
3.) Pandemic - If you're looking for something that is not competitive in nature, this is a great place to start. Be wary of experienced players trying to run the game, though.
 
I end up buying expansions.

Take Pandemic, great game. I have like 4 expansions for it and now I never want to play it.

Same with Battlestsr Galactica.

Red Dragon Inn

Arkham Horror

Firefly

So many rule books with new rules etc etc
 
mclem said:
Yeah, I love it whenever I've played it (always digitally, never owned in physical). I'm just not quite sure if they'll take to the look of the thing, they're not really trains-y people.

Maybe First Journey? Might be worth a look.


Edit: Oh, god, I'm a fool. Go for Ticket to Ride: Europe, and focus more on the geography side of things. We'll be in Europe, we'll be touring Europe, we can talk about the cities. Problem solved!
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Might want to check out Royals ... It's a great gateway area control game set in Europe. Very similar to Ticket to Ride in a way, at least according to Tom Vassal lol my wife enjoyed it.
 
SiegfriedFM said:
That's funny, because I'm just finishing up something similar. Two years ago I produced a small edition of a game called Avdank, which is a dice (D10 to stick with the RPG inspiration) competition game with light RPG elements, as every character has a few attributes and usually a special ability. It's made to be played in around 30 minutes. (Avdank is a variation on the Swedish word for has-been.)

Since the characters are all based on RPG characters, it made sense to make a more RPG-focused variation, so Avdank Äventyr (Quest) has the same character cards used for various typical quests, with the addition of a loot system. Still everything is decided by D10 rolls.

It will also mostly be printed on demand, but I have considered translating and making a Kickstarter. Do you have any ideas on how to approach this?

avdank_hand.jpg


To make a non-promotional contribution, my favourite board games are Secret Hitler and Sherlock Holmes. The latter is a deduction game where you get a ton of materials to search and a choose-your-own-adventure style map where you can spend precious time looking up possible leads. Naturally, a group can only play each of the ten scenarios once.
Click to expand...

Your game looks super dope :o

Been looking at KS but sort of need to come up with a good plan of attack. Just been offering P&P versions on my site. I should probably make more of an effort to promote it though.
 
Pilgrimzero said:
I end up buying expansions.

Take Pandemic, great game. I have like 4 expansions for it and now I never want to play it.

Same with Battlestsr Galactica.

Red Dragon Inn

Arkham Horror

Firefly

So many rule books with new rules etc etc
Click to expand...

Just take them out. Or keep the easy components you don't have to reference rules for, but get rid of the complicated stuff.
 
BrightLightLava said:
I don't think I saw anyone recommend Secret Hitler, but Secret Hitler is freaking great.

The first time you play it, it can seem a bit complicated, but as long as the Liberals realize that there's no reason at all for them to lie then it gets a bit easier (though it's usually easier for the Fascists to win in general).

Also, it's maybe the best looking board game I've played.
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From the videos I've seen it seems overly complicated compared to The Resistance/Avalon, so to be honest unless the theme is a huge draw I don't see the reason for getting it. Also it appears to be vastly more expensive than Resistance/Avalon.
 
Good Cop Bad Cop is my go to for intro games. It's super easy to learn, but has a lot more variation in outcomes than most hidden identity games. You can spot the kingpin in the first round, and the bad cops could still win it. I'd also recommend the Undercover expansion for a few more options, but the other expansion isn't worth the trouble.
 
mclem said:
Yeah, I love it whenever I've played it (always digitally, never owned in physical). I'm just not quite sure if they'll take to the look of the thing, they're not really trains-y people.

Maybe First Journey? Might be worth a look.


Edit: Oh, god, I'm a fool. Go for Ticket to Ride: Europe, and focus more on the geography side of things. We'll be in Europe, we'll be touring Europe, we can talk about the cities. Problem solved!
Click to expand...

It's not really about trains though - I mean it is, but you don't have to be into trains to enjoy it. And the physical version is great because you have the added tactility of building the lines which turn into walls as you block in others - all on a lovely map of Europe
 
mrklaw said:
It's not really about trains though - I mean it is, but you don't have to be into trains to enjoy it. And the physical version is great because you have the added tactility of building the lines which turn into walls as you block in others - all on a lovely map of Europe
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Taken the plunge. I want it for myself anyway, so it's not really a great hassle if they don't take to it!

That said, might gravitate to the US rules for the first game or two, because I'm not used to the Europe additions.
 
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