Support NeoGAF

[Zoe]

fuck that, i'm hoping for cheap blu-rays.

You can already get a number of decent titles for $10-15 on a regular basis through the various sales.

 

[duk]

I wonder what Paramount will do now.

 

[Kittonwy]

I wonder what Paramount will do now.

Call their lawyers and try to negotiate their way out of the deal? No use dragging this on, they're not in it to help Toshiba, a one format market helps Paramount ultimately, time to move it along, deliver that final blow to HD-DVD that is so long overdue.

 

[Ponn]

They were beaten by the standalone BD players in December even with a $100 premium.

Yea, but he was hinting to before this last month. This last month was a complete squash. Before that you could argue HD-DVD standalones besting Blu-ray standalones...if you ignored PS3's. At least thats what the HD-DVD side was trying to argue.

 

[SolidSnakex]

I wonder what Paramount will do now.

Smile because they got their pockets lined to go exclusive and once that's up they can go back to supporting BR and make money there also.

 

[mentho]

My thoughts are that Microsoft "jumped in" to the HD-DVD camp because the PS3 had blu-ray. Microsoft never seriously supported HD-DVD as they did with their TV show/Movie download service on LIVE. Microsoft will not release a blu-ray player. They might cut whatever losses on HD-DVD when paramount and other studios jump ship, and support the LIVE video download service as an alternative to blu-ray.

I don't think Microsoft's support of HD-DVD has nearly as much to do with the game console business as you think it does. Microsoft supports HD-DVD because of HDi and VC-1, not because they're trying to create additional competition with the PS3.

 

[DrGAKMAN]

That's an interesting point you've made. Toshiba is one of the primary inventors of the DVD format and they get a lot of their revenue from the royalties from the sale of anything related to DVD's be it media, players, recorders, etc. By delaying it they've sabotaged the adoption of HD video and clouded the market, thus, ensuring they'll be collecting DVD royalties for some time.

THANK YOU...I said this (and have been saying this) since before either format launched. Some of you should be thanking Toshiba somewhat 'cos it's given BRD (now BR) a kick in the ass not only as far as competition is concerned, but also in changing the format from an expensive, manufacturing industry changing encased format into a streamlined DVD-plant conversion of the same bare disc format (again, thus making BR cheaper).

If it wasn't Toshiba's agenda to prolong their sugar daddy (DVD) than they'd be gobling up exclussive deals, spending more money, actually owning a studio or two and/or working with the BR camp on a more universal HiDef disc forum together...instead they did the opposite and "competed" dirrectly...not by actually competing, but by confusing the market with 2 different formats, clouding the HiDef future with doubt and even casting doubt on it's own propossed format by not doing what the BR camp was doing in ensuring it's future.

I prefered what HD-DVD proposed (online access to progressively released special features instead of having to buy the same movie multiple times to get said features) and I like the idea of registry dirrectly so as to reward those who aren't buying used or bootlegging. However, this is future "dream" anyways...and it's quite obvious that Sony (and the rest of the BR camp) was in it to win it and this only goes to show it.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

At least thats what the HD-DVD side was trying to argue.

Which is completely asinine. If standalone players were all that mattered, why were Blu-ray discs outselling HD-DVD discs despite standalone players selling less?

 

[topsyturvy]

Topsyturvy has been arguing everything between that it won't have any effect at all to that it won't sell millions, and any mix you will find in between those extremes.

I have never said that it won't have any effect towards the ps3 in a negative form. I have said that it won't sell millions because of this news.

Please learn to read

 

[Eteric Rice]

Hopefully this doesn't effect the console wars much.

 

[duk]

Hopefully this doesn't effect the console wars much.

it will affect it some, but not to the magnitude some hopes for.

 

[Memphis Reigns]

Good thing I bought a PS3 yesterday.

 

[Kittonwy]

THANK YOU...I said this (and have been saying this) since before either format launched. Some of you should be thanking Toshiba somewhat 'cos it's given BRD (now BR) a kick in the ass not only as far as competition is concerned, but also in changing the format from an expensive, manufacturing industry changing encased format into a streamlined DVD-plant conversion of the same bare disc format (again, thus making BR cheaper).

If it wasn't Toshiba's agenda to prolong their sugar daddy (DVD) than they'd be gobling up exclussive deals, spending more money, actually owning a studio or two and/or working with the BR camp on a more universal HiDef disc forum together...instead they did the opposite and "competed" dirrectly...not by actually competing, but by confusing the market with 2 different formats, clouding the HiDef future with doubt and even casting doubt on it's own propossed format by not doing what the BR camp was doing in ensuring it's future.

I prefered what HD-DVD proposed (online access to progressively released special features instead of having to buy the same movie multiple times to get said features) and I like the idea of registry dirrectly so as to reward those who aren't buying used or bootlegging. However, this is future "dream" anyways...and it's quite obvious that Sony (and the rest of the BR camp) was in it to win it and this only goes to show it.

Well thank you Toshiba, now it's time for HD-DVD to go quietly into teh night.

 

[Pristine_Condition]

That's an interesting point you've made. Toshiba is one of the primary inventors of the DVD format and they get a lot of their revenue from the royalties from the sale of anything related to DVD's be it media, players, recorders, etc. By delaying it they've sabotaged the adoption of HD video and clouded the market, thus, ensuring they'll be collecting DVD royalties for some time.

It's not an interesting point, it's a daft one.

Toshiba wouldn't spend countless millions of dollars as a mere ruse to artificially extend the their DVD license income. DVD, for the time being, still isn't going anywhere as a major format. And if Toshiba did hatch such a stupid plan, it certainly wouldn't essentially go solo to do it, considering there are at least ten other major companies that get a portion of that DVD license money. They would have had some major DVD partner go along with them on the plan, presumably someone with a common stake in the DVD tech. They wouldn't spend all their own money to essentially make more money for all these other companies, like Sony, Philips Matsushita, Hitachi, Pioneer, Thomson, JVC and Mits.

Toshiba wasn't spending all these hundreds of millions of dallars to make a bit more money for themselves and their DVD partners as some kind of hairbrained altruistic venture. No, Toshiba made HD DVD because they wanted a much larger share of the money for themselves than they got the first time around with DVD.

 

[haunts]

hey has the reggie not my problem picture been posted yet?

 

[neojubei]

Hopefully this doesn't effect the console wars much.

Well yea it will hopefully, especially when big name movies like The Dark Knight or even Lord of the Rings hit on blu-ray along with say metal gear solid 4 among other games for the PS3. Consumers will see the PS3 as a value in having an HD player and video game system.

 

[duk]

hmmm hd dvd movies maybe getting massive discount... time to swoop some up

 

[Guy LeDouche]

no, it wasn't.

sales of discs don't matter for shit at this time. it's all about the standalones. As long as there is more people with units, they know that their movies will sell. (i don't travel into BRD/HD DVD threads simply because half the people don't understand this concept, which sane studios like Paramount/Universal/Warner use)


HD-DVD was DOMINATING until november/december when a couple bad months really fucked them over (warner's deciding point).

it was basically a tie up until warner going "bwahahahaha suckers"

Dominating, but only when not counting PS3 sales, right?

 

[DrGAKMAN]

It really begs the question...is Nintendo really gonna make a DVD playing Wii...and if so, why? It'd be cool if they maybe dived into having a HiDef disc player instead...better yet would just be to have a huge HDD for access to an iTunes-like digital distribution channel? Who knows anymore???

 

[topsyturvy]

It really begs the question...is Nintendo really gonna make a DVD playing Wii...and if so, why? It'd be cool if they maybe dived into having a HiDef disc player instead...better yet would just be to have a huge HDD for access to an iTunes-like digital distribution channel? Who knows anymore???

the wii technically can't support the format. :/

 

[Pristine_Condition]

Dominating, but only when not counting PS3 sales, right?

Or movie/disc sales.

HD DVD folks always had an interesting way of defining victory.

 

[Truespeed]

unlike blu ray discs, hd-dvds are manufactured on DVD lines. my understanding is that any recent-built DVD line can also produce hd-dvds.

There really isn't much difference in replication (aka production):

Source: ProAction Media

Blu-Ray DVD Replication
Single Layer 25GB

5,000 Discs $1.99 ea
10,000 Discs $1.79 ea
25,000 Discs $1.59 ea
100,000 Discs $1.49 ea


HD DVD Replication
Single Layer 15GB / Dual Layer 30GB

5,000 Discs $1.69 ea / $1.99 ea
10,000 Discs $1.55 ea / $1.85 ea
25,000 Discs $1.45 ea / $1.69 ea
100,000 Discs $1.35 ea / $1.55 ea


This is just one source.

 

[Pristine_Condition]

It really begs the question...is Nintendo really gonna make a DVD playing Wii...and if so, why? It'd be cool if they maybe dived into having a HiDef disc player instead...better yet would just be to have a huge HDD for access to an iTunes-like digital distribution channel? Who knows anymore???

They probably won't do either, at least not for a very long time. Sales and profits for Nintendo are at record levels, and part of the reason for that is their price point. They aren't going to add anything to make their product more expensive.

 

[DopeyFish]

Which is completely asinine. If standalone players were all that mattered, why were Blu-ray discs outselling HD-DVD discs despite standalone players selling less?

Different movie selection, different people buying movies

question - if you had like 350,000 people buying on average 12 movies per player and you had another group of 500,000 people buying on average 8 movies per player, who would you rather choose from a platform evolution and platform acceptance point of view? So what if the platform is selling more copies of movies? It's selling to people who have ALREADY BOUGHT THE UNIT, while the other scenario is attracting more people to the platform, even if the movie sales aren't as high. Casual Consumers vs Enthusiasts almost ALWAYS is a lose for enthusiasts

Enthusiasts have literally no sway, or else abominations like VideoCD and D-Theatre would have taken off. Now what studios would rather have is the group of 500,000. Blu-Ray is now leading in both categories, if HD-DVD was still leading in stand alone unit sales, do you honestly think you'd be here now, flapping your lips with your nonsensical gibberish while I'd be here giving (wasting my time giving) you a business lesson? Unlikely.

 

[siamesedreamer]

besides the deepest dwellers of the internet on a friday night....who gives two shits about this?

Fanboys...lotsa them.

The idea that this could turn the tide when the Wii is whooping both HD consoles is truly LOLz-worthy. But, I suspect that it has more to do with hate of MS and a full year of pent up sales frustration than anything else.

 

[DrGAKMAN]

It's not an interesting point, it's a daft one.

Toshiba wouldn't spend countless millions of dollars as a mere ruse to artificially extend the their DVD license income. DVD, for the time being, still isn't going anywhere as a major format. And if Toshiba did hatch such a stupid plan, it certainly wouldn't essentially go solo to do it, considering there are at least ten other major companies that get a portion of that DVD license money. They would have had some major DVD partner go along with them on the plan, presumably someone with a common stake in the DVD tech. They wouldn't spend all their own money to essentially make more money for all these other companies, like Sony, Philips Matsushita, Hitachi, Pioneer, Thomson, JVC and Mits.

Toshiba wasn't spending all these hundreds of millions of dallars to make a bit more money for themselves and their DVD partners as some kind of hairbrained altruistic venture. No, Toshiba made HD DVD because they wanted a much larger share of the money for themselves than they got the first time around with DVD.

This is all true, yes, but they probably would've lost so much more by not at least doing something to delay or possibly alter the inevitable. I think you over shoot how much was put into HD-DVD...it's just basically a higher spec DVD player with a blue laser diode instead of a violet one...certainly a lot less complicated/ambitious than the original BRD spec. Besides, they passed a lot of that "R&D" unto the consumer when the players first launched and there really has not been too many of those players sold.

Surely this hurts them (and any partners that would share the impact) in the short run, but overall the long term kept BRD from going unchecked and helped milk DVD for all it was worth to Toshiba.

 

[speculawyer]

24 pages? Wow. WTF?

 

[QuickKick89]

I think its a definite boon. Let's not forget what DVD did for the PS2.

 

[supermackem]

I think its a definite boon. Let's not forget what DVD did for the PS2.

People where ready for another format then, they arnt ready for one at this time maybe 5 years or so in the future even then we all might have fat internet pipes and a push towards downloadables might move people away from bluray hddvd.

 

[DrGAKMAN]

They probably won't do either, at least not for a very long time. Sales and profits for Nintendo are at record levels, and part of the reason for that is their price point. They aren't going to add anything to make their product more expensive.

I wonder why they even ever talked about WiiDVD? I dunno, it seems so pointless, though I still would like to use the Wii remote, interactivity & online features to mess around with DVD possibilities.

I can't seem to find info anywhere, the drive in the Wii is basically a LITE ON slim drive, but I've heard both that it can be modified to play DVD's and that it can't play DVD's (due to hardware limitations of the disc drive not being able to spin for long periods of time)...not that it really matters, it's just odd that there's no clear answer to that question!

I still was a HDD though.

 

[Brashnir]

24 pages? Wow. WTF?

tnisisneogafdude.gif

 

[bobbytkc]

I think its a definite boon. Let's not forget what DVD did for the PS2.

not really, the leap from VHS to DVD is HUGE, not to mention that VHS degrades over time, and the tapes are builky.

The leap from DVD to BD is significant, but i feel it lacks sufficient pull factors to be a major impact.

Would definitely help at least a little though

 

[neojubei]

People where ready for another format then, they arnt ready for one at this time maybe 5 years or so in the future even then we all might have fat internet pipes and a push towards downloadables might move people away from bluray hddvd.

you mean like FiOS? I wish it was in my neighborhood.

tnisisneogafdude.gif

I wish there was a gif of Nico from GTA4, holding the rifle and instead of saying "welcome to America", he says "welcome to GAF"

 

[Truespeed]

It's not an interesting point, it's a daft one.

Toshiba wouldn't spend countless millions of dollars as a mere ruse to artificially extend the their DVD license income. DVD, for the time being, still isn't going anywhere as a major format. And if Toshiba did hatch such a stupid plan, it certainly wouldn't essentially go solo to do it, considering there are at least ten other major companies that get a portion of that DVD license money. They would have had some major DVD partner go along with them on the plan, presumably someone with a common stake in the DVD tech. They wouldn't spend all their own money to essentially make more money for all these other companies, like Sony, Philips Matsushita, Hitachi, Pioneer, Thomson, JVC and Mits.

Toshiba wasn't spending all these hundreds of millions of dallars to make a bit more money for themselves and their DVD partners as some kind of hairbrained altruistic venture. No, Toshiba made HD DVD because they wanted a much larger share of the money for themselves than they got the first time around with DVD.

Well, I'm not going to insult the guy, but I did find his viewpoint interesting. I did counter with the same reply as you in my initial reply, though. Yes, the points you make are certainly valid because I made them myself. But, as ridiculous and unsubstantiated as it may sound, we will never be able to prove otherwise. Common sense is the only thing we can use, but as past history has pointed out common sense isn't exactly what happened. By the way, do you really think Toshiba equally splits their royalties with the other members in the consortium? When you take into account that Toshiba was the primary inventor of the DVD and probably holds the most patents I'm not sure they would settle for an equal share of the pie considering they did a large part of the R&D.

 

[davepoobond]

i'm on the winning team, baby!

the winning team!!!!

 

[DopeyFish]

not really, the leap from VHS to DVD is HUGE, not to mention that VHS degrades over time, and the tapes are builky.

The leap from DVD to BD is significant, but i feel it lacks sufficient pull factors to be a major impact.

Would definitely help at least a little though

DVD will be forced out of the market. people will moan just like they did the last transition, but they'll eventually stfu and get a blu-ray drive when they're cheap - it's not really the wow factor that's important... it's the "if you want new movies, you have no other choice" factor

 

[B-Ri]

not really, the leap from VHS to DVD is HUGE, not to mention that VHS degrades over time, and the tapes are builky.

The leap from DVD to BD is significant, but i feel it lacks sufficient pull factors to be a major impact.

Would definitely help at least a little though

no, just stop.

If you have EYES you can see its a DRASTIC improvement in image quality, and anyone JUMPING into the HD wagon is doing just that, to get HD MEDIA.

DONT even try to convince anyone that people WONT see the difference in image quality. I watched my mom who is the LEAST technological person out there be AMAZED by HD programming and blu-ray movies vs what she has been watching.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

DVD will be forced out of the market. people will moan just like they did the last transition, but they'll eventually stfu and get a blu-ray drive when they're cheap

People didn't moan. They bought an assload of copies of The Matrix on DVD.

 

[bobbytkc]

DVD will be forced out of the market. people will moan just like they did the last transition, but they'll eventually stfu and get a blu-ray drive when they're cheap

yea, i guess it all comes down to the price. When the price of BDs approach that of DVDs, and players become more mainstream, there simply is no reason to persist in buying DVDs

 

[DopeyFish]

People didn't moan. They bought an assload of copies of The Matrix on DVD.

oh there was a shit load of moaning

there still is, actually :lol

believe it or not, there are still people out there who haven't even made the jump from VHS to DVD yet

 

[Dahbomb]

So is this stupid HD war over now or what?

 

[radioheadrule83]

I wonder why they even ever talked about WiiDVD? I dunno, it seems so pointless, though I still would like to use the Wii remote, interactivity & online features to mess around with DVD possibilities.

I can't seem to find info anywhere, the drive in the Wii is basically a LITE ON slim drive, but I've heard both that it can be modified to play DVD's and that it can't play DVD's (due to hardware limitations of the disc drive not being able to spin for long periods of time)...not that it really matters, it's just odd that there's no clear answer to that question!

I still was a HDD though.

Is that true? I've always found that a bizarre assertion given if you've got a Wii game inserted the thing constantly spins at the Wii Menu.

I think there's a homebrew DVD player you can use actually when you boot to Gamecube mode, so I think its fair to say the hardware is capable, its just not enabled for whatever reason (lack of optical out perhaps?)

Nintendo definitely shouldn't bother with a DVD SKU after this anyway. A WiiWare download might prove reasonably popular though.

 

[Jonnyram]

:lol Serious? Gee I wonder why HD-DVD cancelled their 2 hour Press conf?

Well, I assume they had Warner mentioned in their powerpoint slides and they need to address that. I don't think Paramount/DreamWorks going HD-DVD exclusive made much of a ripple in the market, so why should Warner going BD exclusive have a different result? It's just going to prolong the war, basically.

 

[sun-drop]

to ppl saying this is not gaming related news, and has no effect on console sales for ps3 ..

then why did MS even bother releasing the HD-DVD addon? they did because for the next gen gaming market movie playback IS a deciding element. hell if PS3 had no movie disc playback feature and 360 did ..i would have gone the 360 route this gen.


the death of HD-DVD and bluray winning is basicly like sony reaching over and pulling a feature out of the 360. unless MS decide to release a blu-ray addon, high def disc based movie playback on 360 is dead. and along with that goes a big chunk of your HD PR ...how can you pimp your console as being a HD media device if it can't playback HD disc based media?

huge huge win for ps3 and sony

 

[DopeyFish]

So is this stupid HD war over now or what?

Not yet, but very very close

the death of HD-DVD and bluray winning is basicly like sony reaching over and pulling a feature out of the 360. unless MS decide to release a blu-ray addon, high def disc based movie playback on 360 is dead. and along with that goes a big chunk of your HD PR ...how can you pimp your console as being a HD media device if it can't playback HD disc based media?

huge huge win for ps3 and sony

once again, A blu-ray drive will be made for 360 if necessary (war over, meaning) and how is it ripping out a feature, exactly?

No version of 360 has it out of the box

that's like sony getting all the developer support for camera games, they just ripped out that camera feature! (what?)

 

[Pai Pai Master]

Well, I assume they had Warner mentioned in their powerpoint slides and they need to address that. I don't think Paramount/DreamWorks going HD-DVD exclusive made much of a ripple in the market, so why should Warner going BD exclusive have a different result? It's just going to prolong the war, basically.

Because Warner was the last dual-format partner. All major studios are now exclusive to one of the two formats. Paramount prolonged the war by choosing the losing side. Warner is simply hastening HD-DVD's inevitable defeat.

 

[neojubei]

People didn't moan. They bought an assload of copies of The Matrix on DVD.

You know. I still remember the day I saw the matrix on dvd. That totally changed my videophile world.

Actually i am quite proud of Sony, instead of creating a format that they controlled, i.e. betamax, umd, minidisc, they created the BDA with companies who do have a direct interest in the format because they are part owners.

to ppl saying this is not gaming related news, and has no effect on console sales for ps3 ..

then why did MS even bother releasing the HD-DVD addon? they did because for the next gen gaming market movie playback IS a deciding element. hell if PS3 had no movie disc playback feature and 360 did ..i would have gone the 360 route this gen.


the death of HD-DVD and bluray winning is basicly like sony reaching over and pulling a feature out of the 360. unless MS decide to release a blu-ray addon, high def disc based movie playback on 360 is dead. and along with that goes a big chunk of your HD PR ...how can you pimp your console as being a HD media device if it can't playback HD disc based media?

huge huge win for ps3 and sony

Thats an interesting way of looking at the situation right now.

If only E3 had this type of megaton.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

If only E3 had this type of megaton.

There's always GDC. And that'll be after the alleged big upcoming Apple announcement. ;D

 

[duk]

So is this stupid HD war over now or what?

not yet, but the sooner the better however the HD format of choice still has a long way to beating it's real competitor which is DVD

 

[Jonnyram]

the death of HD-DVD and bluray winning is basicly like sony reaching over and pulling a feature out of the 360. unless MS decide to release a blu-ray addon, high def disc based movie playback on 360 is dead. and along with that goes a big chunk of your HD PR ...how can you pimp your console as being a HD media device if it can't playback HD disc based media?

roflcopters.

I doubt there's any official figures out there, but I bet digital downloads on 360 trounce BD sales. How can Sony pull a feature out of the 360 that was never in the 360 - even I don't have an HD-DVD player and you know how I like meine kleine Xboxen!