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Boon to the PS3? Warner Bros goes Blu-Ray

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neojubei

Will drop pants for Sony.
Pai Pai Master said:
There's always GDC. And that'll be after the alleged big upcoming Apple announcement. ;D


That might be interesting.

I hope Warner Bros release Batman begins soon. Oh and I foresee The Dark Knight exclusive on blu-ray selling a ton of copies.


Jonnyram said:
roflcopters.

I doubt there's any official figures out there, but I bet digital downloads on 360 trounce BD sales. How can Sony pull a feature out of the 360 that was never in the 360 - even I don't have an HD-DVD player and you know how I like meine kleine Xboxen!

Typical. If Microsoft's digital downloads trounce BD, then why support HD-DVD in the first place. Those sales could have been potential people willing to download (rented?) HD content on LIVE.

And does anyone know how long it takes to even download a movie from LIVE? (sorry to be off topic)
 

bobbytkc

ADD New Gen Gamer
Pai Pai Master said:
There's always GDC. And that'll be after the alleged big upcoming Apple announcement. ;D

haha, yea, there are rumours( probably true) that apple will adopt BluRay. and not to mention all the gaming news coming out of GDC. can't wait for it.:D
 
Jonnyram said:
roflcopters.

I doubt there's any official figures out there, but I bet digital downloads on 360 trounce BD sales. How can Sony pull a feature out of the 360 that was never in the 360 - even I don't have an HD-DVD player and you know how I like meine kleine Xboxen!

There's no doubt Microsoft's Marketplace service is doing very well, but it pales in comparison to the quality of HD-DVD.

However, the sooner the HD-DVD add-ons go into clearance mode, the sooner I pick one up. :D

Didn't MS say they'd add a Blu-Ray add on if needed?

Yes, but that probably won't happen. They want video-on-demand to succeed. Not Blu-ray Disc. If (when) HD-DVD dies, Microsoft will probably counter by beefing up their VoD presence.
 

Kittonwy

Banned
davepoobond said:
i'm on the winning team, baby!

the winning team!!!!

gladtomeetya.gif
 
DopeyFish said:
DVD will be forced out of the market. people will moan just like they did the last transition, but they'll eventually stfu and get a blu-ray drive when they're cheap - it's not really the wow factor that's important... it's the "if you want new movies, you have no other choice" factor

Dont be totally stupid, dear god dvd sales laugh from a high at hd media sale combined. People arnt ready to drop the money to get the stuff to watch hd media. Until hd tvs are under £500 and until hd player are £20 in the supermarkets dvds are around to stay and the film companys wont just say oooh you cant buy movies on the format everyone owns go pay £xxxx now to watch these movies.
 

Azrael

Member
Jonnyram said:
Well, I assume they had Warner mentioned in their powerpoint slides and they need to address that. I don't think Paramount/DreamWorks going HD-DVD exclusive made much of a ripple in the market, so why should Warner going BD exclusive have a different result? It's just going to prolong the war, basically.

Paramount's switch narrowed the gap between the two formats, while Warner's switch widens it. The effect that has on the format war is opposite.

I do think it will have some positive effect on the PS3 insofar as consumers who were interested in high-def movies but didn't want to pick a losing format become more confident that Blu-ray is here to stay.

Here's a question I've been thinking about for a long time, and I don't have an answer for it. Let's make a few very conservative assumptions.

1) If the PS3 had included a DVD drive instead of a Blu-ray drive, HD DVD would have won the format war with Blu-ray.
2) If the PS3 had included a DVD drive instead of a Blu-ray drive, it would have been much more successful.
3) Blu-ray will win the format war.

In the long term, was it better to sacrifice marketshare this generation to make Blu-ray a success, or would it have been better for Blu-ray to fail and the PS3 to have been more successful?
 
Jonnyram said:
Well, I assume they had Warner mentioned in their powerpoint slides and they need to address that. I don't think Paramount/DreamWorks going HD-DVD exclusive made much of a ripple in the market, so why should Warner going BD exclusive have a different result? It's just going to prolong the war, basically.
This is different. Warner has biggest market share in home entertainment industry.

 

Kittonwy

Banned
Azrael said:
Paramount's switch narrowed the gap between the two formats, while Warner's switch widens it. The effect that has on the format war is opposite.

I do think it will have some positive effect on the PS3 insofar as consumers who were interested in high-def movies but didn't want to pick a losing format become more confident that Blu-ray is here to stay.

Here's a question I've been thinking about for a long time, and I don't have an answer for it. Let's make a few very conservative assumptions.

1) If the PS3 had included a DVD drive instead of a Blu-ray drive, HD DVD would have won the format war with Blu-ray.
2) If the PS3 had included a DVD drive instead of a Blu-ray drive, it would have been much more successful.
3) Blu-ray will win the format war.

In the long term, was it better to sacrifice marketshare this generation to make Blu-ray a success, or would it have been better for Blu-ray to fail and the PS3 to have been more successful?

The PS3 could have been cheaper without a lot of the things it had, but it's kind of a moot point now.

One thing is for sure, I love not having to worry about scratching my discs. And the PS3 needs great games to be successful, which is really up to Sony now, who knows even with more success whether Sony can get multiplatform publishers to release quality exclusive titles on the PS3, 2008 should be a great year for the PS3 given their much stronger line-up.
 

Jonnyram

Member
neojubei said:
Typical. If Microsoft's digital downloads trounce BD, then why support HD-DVD in the first place. Those sales could have been potential people willing to download (rented?) HD content on LIVE.
I guess they needed a stop gap until the video marketplace was ready? I wouldn't say they wholly supported HD-DVD, considering it was only ever an external peripheral, not built into the system. It's not like MS bet the house on it or anything.
 

neojubei

Will drop pants for Sony.
Jonnyram said:
I guess they needed a stop gap until the video marketplace was ready? I wouldn't say they wholly supported HD-DVD, considering it was only ever an external peripheral, not built into the system. It's not like MS bet the house on it or anything.


Basically Microsoft used Toshiba, and too bad Toshiba needed Microsoft to help with the war against BD. And the loser right now is Toshiba and the HD-DVD camp. So yea, Microsoft didn't lose much, did they even advertise the add-on on television? I only remember the best buy circular ads.
 

Dante

Member
Jonnyram said:
roflcopters.

I doubt there's any official figures out there, but I bet digital downloads on 360 trounce BD sales. How can Sony pull a feature out of the 360 that was never in the 360 - even I don't have an HD-DVD player and you know how I like meine kleine Xboxen!

Huh? Come again....
 

DrGAKMAN

Banned
MirageDwarf said:
This is different. Warner has biggest market share in home entertainment industry.

Working at Blockbuster I can tell you WB relevance is much greater than even Disney...WB has also never majorly backed a losing format either. Also, whenever WB takes a plunge (DVD for example) they do it right and all others follow. It could be said that AOL/Roadrunner/TIME/LIFE/TIME Warner Cable/Warner Bros. Studios is one of the most major multi-conglomerates there is.
 
Jonnyram said:
I guess they needed a stop gap until the video marketplace was ready?

Precisely. They've held out with the (unsuccessful) HD-DVD add-on so far. The Video Marketplace is a huge success now, and their IPTV service is probably primed for launch this year. Microsoft knows what they're doing. Toshiba did not.
 
HD DVD was the more consumer friendly format, without regional coding and with superior starting standards, but at the end of the day Blu Ray is the better technology and deserves the win.

Having two formats is nonsensical, and at the end of the day companies like Warner need to lose out in the short term to make sure the long term is profitable for all involved.

This is good news for Sony but ultimately I think Microsoft is more interested in internet based services than video formats.
 

Azrael

Member
JCBossman said:
But you guys are on the Losing Video game format, does that make Kitty sad?

The video game market has shown itself to be able to support multiple formats, unlike movies and music. If the PS3 gets as much developer support as the Xbox 1 did, I'll live with that. If it's true that releasing a PS3 version of a PC/360 game only adds about 10% to the project's budget, then the solid but not spectacular sales of games like Call of Duty 4 and Assassin's Creed suggests that it's worth it for developers to continue supporting the system.
 

mentho

Member
Pai Pai Master said:
There's no doubt Microsoft's Marketplace service is doing very well, but it pales in comparison to the quality of HD-DVD.

as far as video quality, this guy disagrees with you: http://www.xyhd.tv/2006/12/reviews/...rketplace-competes-well-visually-with-hd-dvd/

of course, if you were talking about interactivity and features, i totally agree. Then again, it's difficult to compare the two, because XBL Marketplace is a rental service (for movies anyway) and you can actually own HD-DVDs.
 

methodman

Banned
TheDuce22 said:
It could have an impact 2 or 3 years down the line when PS3 reaches that mass market price.

Don't you think by then we could get Blu Ray players cheaper then the PS3, which was exactly the same with ps2 and xbox?
 

neptunes

Member
In terms of gaming how can anyone be excited (or) pissed over this news? it has no effect on current console gaming for the near future.
 
Lagaff said:
Look like some Ms fan are not pleased with this news and try to make some kind of damage control :lol

Or on the flip side, sony fans using one stuidos support or bluray as some sort of sad victory as they continue to get beaten in console and software sales. See you can spin it either way you want mate.:lol
 

JCBossman

Banned
Lagaff said:
Look like some Ms fan are not pleased with this news and try to make some kind of damage control :lol

I guess you are a Sony fan? I am an MS fan, I get to laugh too, EVERY month when it's NPD Day!:lol
 

RiverBed

Banned
why would anyone say this is a blow to Microsoft? they aren't backing any of the two forums, AFAIK. they simply offered an ad-on and got their money from it (since it was sold at a profit).

glad to see BD winning and soon be the default. it is really the best option out there for all of us.
one more successful format to add under Sony's belt and their crew.
 
Azrael said:
Paramount's switch narrowed the gap between the two formats, while Warner's switch widens it. The effect that has on the format war is opposite.

Excellent way of condensing the importance of Warner's decision here.


Azrael said:
I do think it will have some positive effect on the PS3 insofar as consumers who were interested in high-def movies but didn't want to pick a losing format become more confident that Blu-ray is here to stay.

Yep.


Azrael said:
Here's a question I've been thinking about for a long time, and I don't have an answer for it. Let's make a few very conservative assumptions.

1) If the PS3 had included a DVD drive instead of a Blu-ray drive, HD DVD would have won the format war with Blu-ray.
2) If the PS3 had included a DVD drive instead of a Blu-ray drive, it would have been much more successful.
3) Blu-ray will win the format war.

Here's how I look at it:

1) Absolutely true

2) Doubtful. "Much more successful" is stretching it, I think. How much more successful it would have been is highly debatable.

The problem with the PS3's first year was not only cost (which is the main thing you could blame on Blu-ray's inclusion) but also lack of good games that showed off the power of the console.

The cost issue was greatly narrowed (compared to a similarly-equipped 360) within this year for the most part. The greater issue with the PS3 was, and somewhat still is, the games.

The Cell processor wasn't going to get easier to program for without Blu-ray. So the slow ramp-up of PS3 games development was still going to be there, regardless of Blu-ray.

If anything, some might argue that the Bu-ray drive at least gave PS3 early-adopters some entertainment to enjoy while they waited for the games.

3) Agreed.

Azreal said:
In the long term, was it better to sacrifice marketshare this generation to make Blu-ray a success, or would it have been better for Blu-ray to fail and the PS3 to have been more successful?[

Like I said before, I think the PS3 was going to have a slow roll-out due to the complexity of the programming architecture leading to a slow roll-out of quality software anyway.

Now that Blu-ray is looking like the winner, it is an added asset to the system, as you indicated in your second paragraph here.

So, since PS3 was kind of destined to have a slow 2007 anyway while programmers got up-to-speed with programming the beast, and that's the amount of time it took for the format war to seem to sort itself out, the timing seems to have worked out. If Sony takes the opportunity to basically consider 2007 almost a public beta for the PS3, and takes this new year by the horns in full-on relaunch mode, they might really have something to roll with here. By all indications, the games are now coming. Blu-ray is going to win and is now a real sales point for the system. The cost of the machine is dropping. Things don't look that bad at all anymore.

What would be interesting is if Microsoft quickly announces a Blu-ray add-on player for the 360 at CES. While that would require some major pride-swallowing from MS, that move could steal some of that momentum back really quickly. It would be pretty fun to watch if they did it.
 

Truespeed

Member
JCBossman said:
I guess you are a Sony fan? I am an MS fan, I get to laugh too, EVERY month when it's NPD Day!:lol

And then you realize that people actually live outside of the U.S and also buy consoles.
 

mentho

Member
Truespeed said:
There really isn't much difference in replication (aka production):

Source: ProAction Media

Blu-Ray DVD Replication
Single Layer 25GB

5,000 Discs $1.99 ea
10,000 Discs $1.79 ea
25,000 Discs $1.59 ea
100,000 Discs $1.49 ea


HD DVD Replication
Single Layer 15GB / Dual Layer 30GB

5,000 Discs $1.69 ea / $1.99 ea
10,000 Discs $1.55 ea / $1.85 ea
25,000 Discs $1.45 ea / $1.69 ea
100,000 Discs $1.35 ea / $1.55 ea


This is just one source.

you're not quoting the cost of blu ray dual layer discs. I haven't been tuned in for a while, but when I was following the format war more closely it seemed like there were only two or three manufactures who could reliably reproduce DL blu discs, and even then the yields were as low as 50 or 60 percent.

am i off topic here? yeah I'm off topic.
 

Truespeed

Member
mentho said:
you're not quoting the cost of blu ray dual layer discs. I haven't been tuned in for a while, but when I was following the format war more closely it seemed like there were only two or three manufactures who could reliably reproduce DL blu discs, and even then the yields were as low as 50 or 60 percent.

am i off topic here? yeah I'm off topic.

Link

HD DVD replication vs Blu-ray replication at Plant #1
My confidential industry source revealed that one large replication company is currently charging approximately $1.15 per single layer HD DVD (15GB) and $1.30 per single layer Blu-ray Disc (25GB), assuming a quantity of 25,000. For comparison purposes, a run of 25,000 Dual Layer DVD (DVD9) discs would cost about $0.50 per disc at this same facility. DL HD DVD (30GB) was right inline with SL Blu-ray (25GB) pricing, but an exact figure was not provided. This translates to a cost of approximately $0.077 per GB on HD DVD SL media and $0.052 per GB on Blu-ray SL media.

Blu-ray replication costs Plant #2 (Blu-ray only)
I received quotes on Blu-ray single layer (25GB) replication at plant #2 between $1.35-$1.45 USD per disc on runs of 25K or more. Blu-ray DL (50GB) was quoted between $2.15 - $2.25 per disc on a 25,000 quantity run. Taking the high end on this range, this translates to approximately $0.045 per GB for Blu-ray DL media.
 
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