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Boon to the PS3? Warner Bros goes Blu-Ray

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D

DrXym

Member
Pristine_Condition said:
Toshiba's semiconductor business is pretty amazing right now. IIRC, they jumped something like 20% quarter to quarter last year. They're still going to make money, but they will need to adjust, which I'm sure they will.

The SED pull-out was disappointing, especially when they tried to blame the failure on Canon. I thought there was a real future for that tech, but it looks like OLED might get off the ground well ahead of it now.
Click to expand...

And the irony is that Toshiba is making the Cell processors that go into the very device that was instrumental in sealing HD DVD's doom. The Japanese electronics industry is so incestuous that I'm sure they all make money no matter what the outcome is.
 
V

Vashu

Member
Kyoufu said:
Why would they need to be paid? Is BRD a format they aren't making money on? Is BRD a format that isn't outselling the competition?
Click to expand...

Zing!

I take it their choice was clear, they just waited for some more confirmation until after the hollidays. Now that BRD has been outselling the HD-DVD releases, they decided to end this format war quick.

I also read that they (Warner Bros) was actively trying to persuade Fox onto the HD-DVD side. Then, after that failed, WB decided to call it quits and end this format war quickly. At least, I hope it's ending quite quickly now. One format is way better for consumers, and this could drive the prices to more affordable regions. For both players and discs.
 
D

deepbrown

Member
JCBossman said:
Do you ACTUALLY believe Warner wasn't paid?
Click to expand...
Aye - why would they need money? They have plenty of it.

Plus, their decision equals MORE money not less. With two formats people aren't buying either format - with one format the take over of DVD is much more realistic, meaning they can make some money.

Seeing as their sales on Blu-ray were about 70-90% round the world, what reason have they got to sticking to HD-DVD except lsoing money with two formats that won't go anywhere?

What Kyofuo said.

Oh and we're not talking about Microsoft and Paramount. This decision isn't irrational - it's the best decision Warner could have made for their wallets.
 
B

B-Ri

Member
Hellraizer said:
Your opinion, and based on what you are posting here, I really dont give a damn...
Click to expand...

because im glad we have a 1 format future for HDM, and i enjoy my PS3 games?

Wait apparently PS3 doesnt have any games.

But you DO give a damn, thats why you baited me, and since you have no other way to challenge it you gave us all the dont give a damn line for a clean break.
 
G

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
Pistolero said:
TOSHIBA acted as if they were caught by surprise...I mean, they couldn't have been in the dark, could they ?

Just to clarify, I'm referring to Warner Bros announcement.
Click to expand...

I'd love to know why they're cancelling the CES conference. They say they're still confident in the format, so why not show up and push it as it is now? I doubt they had Warner scheduled for such a huge chunk of the conference that they couldn't rearrange things.

As for payment, it wouldn't surprise me, but if there was payment, it does surprise me that Warner would be "allowed" to continue release HD-DVDs for even a limited period. It seems like a very charitable thing to do, the type of thing Warner would do if it was in charge, not someone from the BDA.
 
S

SolidSnakex

Member
JCBossman said:
Do you ACTUALLY believe Warner wasn't paid?
Click to expand...

Yes, and until you can dig up something to show otherwise there's nothing to say they were. From the looks of it they seem like a studio that's serious about wanting to end the format war and so they jumped on board with the leader as its the quickest way to ending it.
 
D

deepbrown

Member
bud said:
... :lol
Click to expand...

Indifferent2.gif


WOuld be amusing if Microsoft was going to announce the Ultimate with a built in HD-DVD drive...haha, I bet they're cancelling that right now as well.
 
P

Pristine_Condition

Member
JCBossman said:
Do you ACTUALLY believe Warner wasn't paid?
Click to expand...

Warner is a public company. By SEC regulations, they'd have to report a large moneyhat payment as income on their balance sheets, so why would Warner's chief lie about no payment when he knows full well that the truth would eventually be revealed?
 
B

bud

Member
deepbrown said:
Indifferent2.gif
Click to expand...

saying a company doesn't want to earn money because they already have ''plenty'' of it, is the stupidest thing i've read in this thread--and that's an amazing feat.
 
C

cilonen

Member
Pistolero said:
TOSHIBA acted as if they were caught by surprise...I mean, they couldn't have been in the dark, could they ?

Just to clarify, I'm referring to Warner Bros announcement.
Click to expand...

AVS Forum insiders were under the impression that the HD-DVD shindig organised for Sunday was to announce that both Fox and WB were going HD-DVD exclusive, to swing the format win for HD-DVD. This was the case as recently as last week.

For some unknown reason ($$$) Fox pulled out of the deal, leaving WB holding the bag - realising that WB on their own going HD-DVD exclusive would just split the market and further entrench both sides positions, WB acted to end the 'war' one way or the other (which is their primary concern) and jump to Blu Ray.

If these rumors are even close to what's been going on behind the scenes, then yeah, I;d say Toshiba (and Microsoft) have been caught completely by surprise.
 
J

JCBossman

Banned
Kyoufu said:
Why would they need to be paid? Is BRD a format they aren't making money on? Is BRD a format that isn't outselling the competition?
Click to expand...

Are you guys SERIOUS, Why would they NEED to be paid? Why would they NEED to be paid? Why would they NEED to be paid? Why would they NEED to be paid? Why would they NEED to be paid? Why would they NEED to be paid? Why would they NEED to be paid? Why would they NEED to be paid?
Why would they NEED to be paid?
Why would they NEED to be paid?


Well let me take a shot at that do you believe that Blu-Ray in the next 18 months is SO MASSIVE, a money maker, that to deny yourself those LIMITLESS revenues, Money Doesn't matter...I mean why take 500 million for HD-DVD when in the next 18 months you could make 5 TRILLION from Blu...Don't be stupid, Money Matters...
 
M

Mmmkay

Member
There are plenty of ways to skin a cat, financially... Uh.

Well anyway, I wouldn't get too hung up on the idea that Warner made a charitable decision.
 
P

Pistolero

Member
You're acting as if Sony (or any other company supporting BR for that matter) has hundreds of milions of dollars as reserve whereas Toshiba and its supporters complete the month by asking for charity...
I don't know, couldn't the other make a counter-offer ?
 
L

Loudninja

Member
New Line drops HD DVD as well
It is now clear that New Line (Owned by Warner Bros.) will also drop HD DVD in favor of Blu-ray. The announcement comes on a day that can only be described as a nightmare for the HD DVD camp.

This means that from May 2008 no titles from New Line and Warner Bros. will be released on HD DVD.

The reason for the May 2008 date is that Warner Bros. is currently under contract to deliver titles on the HD DVD format. The contract ends on that date.
Click to expand...

http://www.dvdtown.com/news/new-line-drops-hd-dvd-as-well/5066

I am most likey late as hell
 
B

Balthier

Banned
JCBossman said:
Are you guys SERIOUS, Why would they NEED to be paid? Why would they NEED to be paid? Why would they NEED to be paid? Why would they NEED to be paid? Why would they NEED to be paid? Why would they NEED to be paid? Why would they NEED to be paid? Why would they NEED to be paid?
Why would they NEED to be paid?
Why would they NEED to be paid?


Well let me take a shot at that do you believe that Blu-Ray in the next 18 months is SO MASSIVE, a money maker, that to deny yourself those LIMITLESS revenues, Money Doesn't matter...I mean why take 500 million for HD-DVD when in the next 18 months you could make 5 TRILLION from Blu...Don't be stupid.
Click to expand...

maybe you should make a bet about it, y'know since you're so sure about it and all
 
V

Vashu

Member
JCBossman said:
Are you guys SERIOUS, Why would they NEED to be paid? Why would they NEED to be paid? Why would they NEED to be paid? Why would they NEED to be paid? Why would they NEED to be paid? Why would they NEED to be paid? Why would they NEED to be paid? Why would they NEED to be paid?
Why would they NEED to be paid?
Why would they NEED to be paid?


Well let me take a shot at that do you believe that Blu-Ray in the next 18 months is SO MASSIVE, a money maker, that to deny yourself those LIMITLESS revenues, Money Doesn't matter...I mean why take 500 million for HD-DVD when in the next 18 months you could make 5 TRILLION from Blu...Don't be stupid.
Click to expand...

Wow dude! What the hell? Is your life at stake here? Take a deep breath and keep calm. What is the problem here now? You got some important stake in the HD-DVD group? Whoa!

But let me take a stab at what could be reality. Now that the format war is, according to mainstream media, all but over, I believe that starting from June, WB will heavily promote their BRD releases to the public. There is almost no fragmentation left, and this way, they can put all of their resources onto one format. This means more money for research and production, more money to capture any hindrances (their latest releases had some serious flaws) and ensuring that the product gets out on time without the need for any takebacks which happened with both Blade Runner and Harry Potter boxsets.

Their aim is to stop this format war, and not prolonging it. Their aim is to make as much money, and they also stated they did not get any payments for that. Their execs can't lie because as already mentioned by Pristine_Condition they have to put that sort of income on their balance sheet. And lying about it can have serious repercusions, and they're not that stupid.

Just take it easy, and accept the fact that they did not get paid but made the decision all by themselves.
 
G

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
Some more (interesting) background info from NYTimes:

Warner Brothers has been courted for months by both sides. Toshiba dispatched Yoshihide Fujii, the executive in charge of its HD DVD business, to the studio three times in recent months, according to Time Warner executives who were granted anonymity because the negotiations were confidential. Sony has aimed even higher: Howard Stringer, the conglomerate’s chief executive, has leaned on Jeffrey Bewkes, the new chief executive of Time Warner.

Money was an issue. Toshiba offered to pay Warner Brothers substantial incentives to come down on its side — just as it gave Paramount and DreamWorks Animation a combined $150 million in financial incentives for their business, according to two executives with knowledge of the talks who asked not to be identified.

Kevin Tsujihara, president of the Warner Brothers Home Entertainment Group, declined to comment on whether any payments were offered for support of Blu-ray. “This market is absolutely critical to our future growth,” he said in a telephone interview. “You couldn’t put a number on that.”

For his part, Mr. Meyer said, “We’re not in this for a short-term financial hit.”
Click to expand...

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/05/technology/05disc.html?ref=media

Can't seem to find any comments from Universal or Paramount. They would be interesting. According to NYTimes, Universal refused to comment (usually they've spearheaded HD-DVD advocation in the press?). Also might just be coincidence, but yesterday Universal "corrected" a press release that went out on Thursday, taking HD DVD off the PR for an announced disc release for Lust, Caution.
 
J

JCBossman

Banned
Vashu said:
Wow dude! What the hell? Is your life at stake here? Take a deep breath and keep calm. What is the problem here now? You got some important stake in the HD-DVD group? Whoa!

But let me take a stab at what could be reality. Now that the format war is, according to mainstream media, all but over, I believe that starting from June, WB will heavily promote their BRD releases to the public. There is almost no fragmentation left, and this way, they can put all of their resources onto one format. This means more money for research and production, more money to capture any hindrances (their latest releases had some serious flaws) and ensuring that the product gets out on time without the need for any takebacks which happened with both Blade Runner and Harry Potter boxsets.

Their aim is to stop this format war, and not prolonging it. Their aim is to make as much money, and they also stated they did not get any payments for that. Their execs can't lie because as already mentioned by Pristine_Condition they have to put that sort of income on their balance sheet. And lying about it can have serious repercusions, and they're not that stupid.

Just take it easy, and accept the fact that they did not get paid but made the decision all by themselves.
Click to expand...


THEY GOT PAID, but to be honest I am not SAYING HD DVD didn't try to pay them too...Look at it this way, say Both Blue and Red were willing to pay you 500mil., but you sell right NOW twice as much on Blu as Red. Who would you pick?
 
V

Vashu

Member
JCBossman said:
THEY GOT PAID, but to be honest I am not SAYING HD DVD didn't try to pay them too...Look at it this way, say Both Blue and Red were willing to pay you 500mil., but you sell right NOW twice as much on Blu as Red. Who would you pick?
Click to expand...

What makes you so certain they got paid? Are there any stone-cold facts?
 
B

Balthier

Banned
JCBossman said:
THEY GOT PAID, but to be honest I am not SAYING HD DVD didn't try to pay them too...Look at it this way, say Both Blue and Red were willing to pay you 500mil., but you sell right NOW twice as much on Blu as Red. Who would you pick?
Click to expand...

you know so much. you must be a ceo insider, afterall your profile says you're "Upper,Upper Class, High Society"

or you're just an idiot, can't really tell
 
R

Router

Hopsiah the Kanga-Jew
cilonen said:
AVS Forum insiders were under the impression that the HD-DVD shindig organised for Sunday was to announce that both Fox and WB were going HD-DVD exclusive, to swing the format win for HD-DVD. This was the case as recently as last week.

For some unknown reason ($$$) Fox pulled out of the deal, leaving WB holding the bag - realising that WB on their own going HD-DVD exclusive would just split the market and further entrench both sides positions, WB acted to end the 'war' one way or the other (which is their primary concern) and jump to Blu Ray.

If these rumors are even close to what's been going on behind the scenes, then yeah, I;d say Toshiba (and Microsoft) have been caught completely by surprise.
Click to expand...


Yeah, I was expecting the big HD-DVD exclusive announcement too... Along with 99% of the industry. Oh well, it means an early end to this silly format war so its not all bad.
 
P

Pristine_Condition

Member
JCBossman said:
THEY GOT PAID, but to be honest I am not SAYING HD DVD didn't try to pay them too...Look at it this way, say Both Blue and Red were willing to pay you 500mil., but you sell right NOW twice as much on Blu as Red. Who would you pick?
Click to expand...

Why are you ignoring my question JC?

Warner is a public company. By SEC regulations, they'd have to report a large moneyhat payment as income on their balance sheets, right? So why would Warner's chief lie about no payment when he knows full well that the truth would eventually be revealed?

Answer the question.
 
C

cilonen

Member
JCBossman said:
Are you guys SERIOUS, Why would they NEED to be paid? Why would they NEED to be paid? Why would they NEED to be paid? Why would they NEED to be paid? Why would they NEED to be paid? Why would they NEED to be paid? Why would they NEED to be paid? Why would they NEED to be paid?
Why would they NEED to be paid?
Why would they NEED to be paid?
Click to expand...

I read this and all I can think is..

"back, and to the left" ... "back, and to the left" ... "back, and to the left"
 
J

JCBossman

Banned
These were early days, and in my opinion the BIGGEST factor wasn't cash payments but a lack of Guaranteed sales. Sure Toshiba could say they were going to lower their SA box prices, and sure MS could say they were going to sell more standalones and even put one in a Elite, but even with SHIT PS3 sales you are talking a minimum of 200K NA a month sales, with greater sales worldwide.you take that plus the lead in TOTAL sales racked up by the PS3 EVEN with their (by console standards) SHIT sales, and unless you were stupid you went for the SURE thing. That is all that happened.

PS Their is No particular LOVE for the PS3, if the Xbox HAD came out with a HD DVD drive standard and sales remained the same the result would have been a HD DVD win.
 
P

Pistolero

Member
JCBossman said:
THEY GOT PAID, but to be honest I am not SAYING HD DVD didn't try to pay them too...Look at it this way, say Both Blue and Red were willing to pay you 500mil., but you sell right NOW twice as much on Blu as Red. Who would you pick?
Click to expand...


Then money is a moot point...Your logic is extraterrestrial...
 
C

chickensoup

Member
Pristine_Condition said:
Warner is a public company. By SEC regulations, they'd have to report a large moneyhat payment as income on their balance sheets, right? So why would Warner's chief lie about no payment when he knows full well that the truth would eventually be revealed?
Click to expand...
Instead of making a payment directly to Warners, it's more likely that the Blu ray group did something like covering some of their marketing / promotion, cheaper licensing rates, or other reductions in manufacturing costs. These types of deals aren't unprecedented and can be a bit easier to swallow than a direct payoff.
 
V

Vashu

Member
JCBossman said:
These were early days, and in my opinion the BIGGEST factor wasn't cash payments but a lack of Guaranteed sales. Sure Toshiba could say they were going to lower their SA box prices, and sure MS could say they were going to sell more standalones and even put one in a Elite, but even with SHIT PS3 sales you are talking a minimum of 200K NA a month sales, with greater sales worldwide.you take that plus the lead in TOTAL sales racked up by the PS3 EVEN with their (by console standards) SHIT sales, and unless you were stupid you went for the SURE thing. That is all that happened.

PS Their is No particular LOVE for the PS3, if the Xbox HAD came out with a HD DVD drive standard and sales remained the same the result would have been a HD DVD win.
Click to expand...

Well, that makes certainly ONE thing clear.

Oh, and nice to avoid the discussion like this. Case of fact: Blu-Ray is outselling HD-DVD 2:1, WB wants to see this format war end soon and free up precious resources. If they got paid, you would expect them to drop HD-DVD immediately, which Paramount only did for 150 million dollars (pretty cheap actually XD) regarding BRD. No, Warner Bros made a conscient decision regarding this format war and seeing as they want to end it sooner than later they opted for the more selling format.

This has NOTHING to do with PS3 sales in total although that would've helped, because there are still more BR-players being sold than HD-DVD in total.

Good job by ignoring Pristine_Conditions question regarding your own statement that WB got paid.

chickensoup said:
Instead of making a payment directly to Warners, it's more likely that the Blu ray group did something like covering some of their marketing / promotion, cheaper licensing rates, or other reductions in manufacturing costs. These types of deals aren't unprecedented and can be a bit easier to swallow than a direct payoff.
Click to expand...

That could have contributed to their decision, but at least it's not as blatant as a payoff.
 
P

Pistolero

Member
JCBossman said:
Does ANY BLUBOY believe for a second if it WAS NOT for the PS3 Blu would have lost BIGTIME?
Click to expand...

Euh...I think that was the very plan indeed. You're starting to sound like a scratched disk, no offense...
 
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