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[Revelations]

BS

BRA uses a codec MS developed for use in Blu Ray discs.

 

[Mmmkay]

Actually the BR Association is paying MS for use of their code in the blu ray discs themselves. MS was benefitting from both formats. Maybe thats why they didnt give a crap about hddvd.

Actually most companies involved with either format receive royalties from the other, just not nearly as large a proportion.

They license the VC-1 codec from Microsoft

No they don't. VC-1, to be a legitimate format for both discs, had to be standardised by the MPEG-LA.
http://www.mpegla.com/vc1/

As such, while Microsoft may receive a larger proportion of the royalties, they by no means own it any more.

 

[antiloop]

Dont say that lol, let them have there one up:lol. I love how this hd media format war has made its way into the console wars. I reckon its plastic wars next who makes the better console plastic.

HD-DVD == Microsoft

Blu-ray == Sony


Guess why it made it's way into the console war.



Anyway I just checked some major Swedish Internet stores. Blu-ray discs are a lot more common and even cheaper. I can't see why it shouldn't be the format of choice for any movie lover.

 

[nofi]

So what happens with Universal, now? Not trying to be a dick, but genuinely interested and want me some Tokyo Drift in HD.

 

[Revelations]

HD-DVD == Toshiba

Blu-ray == Sony


Guess why it made it's way into the console war.



Anyway I just checked some major Swedish Internet stores. Blu-ray discs are a lot more common and even cheaper. I can't see why it shouldn't be the format of choice for any movie lover.

Fixt

MS was just a lazy ass deaf cheerleader.

 

[Vashu]

If you did keep up, you must know that HD-DVD stand-alone players and movie sales outsold bluray by a significant amount before the PS3 arrived.
The launch of the PS3 end 2006 was a turning point. Within a few months Bluray sales picked up and caught up TOTAL HD-DVD sales. I doubt that Bluray would have won the format war without the PS3. The PS3 as a troyan horse, allowed sony to make exclusivity deals with Disney and other studios in the first place.

I've just done some fact-checking, and it is indeed true that HD-DVD outsold BR for a while. The PS3 might have been the turning point, and I'm not denying the fact that it helped, but I still believe that it's not that big of a factor.

Standalone players were starting to sell more too, so it's not all PS3. Sure, the PS3 is a trojan horse, but there were more forces waiting outside the walls that eventually turned around this 'war'. A small but significant battle, I give you that.

If the PS3 didn't have the Blu-Ray drive built inside, the war would probably have lasted for a longer time. Since both sides were heavily backed by multiple corporations. Who knows, HD-DVD might have won, but that is all in the if-section of life. I still don't think the PS3 was that big of a major contributor.

 

[lastendconductor]

Both formats suck.

 

[cilonen]

So what happens with Universal, now? Not trying to be a dick, but genuinely interested and want me some Tokyo Drift in HD.

We wait and see. If there's no press release over CES next week, then just have to assume they're in with HD-DVD to the absolute bitter end, whenever that may be.

Scenarios that might happen:

1) The studios might all get together and decide it's best to just get behind BD now.

2) Toshiba might pull the plug on the hardware, deciding it's costing too much to subsidise the players (which they have been) for little return. That return is only going to get less as things stand now.

3) Everyone keeps doing what they're doing and drives the whole HD Media market into the ground some more.

I would have said 3 was most likely but I'm a bit stunned by the seemingly astonishing decision of Warner to act in the market's best interest rather than it's own, and the glum tone of Toshiba's press releases and the cancelling of the press event at CES, so it;s all a bit up in the air really.

 

[nofi]

Scenarios that might happen:

Thanks for the answer.

 

[DrXym]

HD-DVD == Microsoft

Blu-ray == Sony


Guess why it made it's way into the console war.

Anyway I just checked some major Swedish Internet stores. Blu-ray discs are a lot more common and even cheaper. I can't see why it shouldn't be the format of choice for any movie lover.

HD-DVD == Toshiba with Microsoft standing behind Toshiba. Quite a way behind Toshiba, ready to run a mile when the whole thing topples.

I think they could make more money from Blu simply by producing better tools for VC-1 that make it a favoured format. Other than VC-1 I wonder what else they would get off HD DVD. I know some Toshiba players run on WindowCE but that doesn't sound that big of a deal.

 

[ZeroTolerance]

"PS3 order has now been added to your cart, please proceed to checkout"

 

[painful fart]

Money was an issue. Toshiba offered to pay Warner Brothers substantial incentives to come down on its side — just as it gave Paramount and DreamWorks Animation a combined $150 million in financial incentives for their business, according to two executives with knowledge of the talks who asked not to be identified.

Kevin Tsujihara, president of the Warner Brothers Home Entertainment Group, declined to comment on whether any payments were offered for support of Blu-ray. “This market is absolutely critical to our future growth,” he said in a telephone interview. “You couldn’t put a number on that.”

For his part, Mr. Meyer said, “We’re not in this for a short-term financial hit.”

Being money hatted to support a dying format is like peeing in your bed, it´s only warm and cosy for a short time.

 

[Woo-Fu]

I would have said 3 was most likely but I'm a bit stunned by the seemingly astonishing decision of Warner to act in the market's best interest rather than it's own, and the glum tone of Toshiba's press releases and the cancelling of the press event at CES, so it;s all a bit up in the air really.

Uh, it is in Warner's best interest to end the war as well. What they lose in HD-DVD sales they'll make up in reduced production costs and eventually greater BD sales.

 

[Router]

So what happens with Universal, now? Not trying to be a dick, but genuinely interested and want me some Tokyo Drift in HD.

They will settle it at RACE WARZ.

 

[George Claw M.D.]

if if if

If we had our nose upside down, we'd drown in the shower!

Maybe it's because I'm tired as hell, but I'm cracking up! :lol

 

[JB1981]

http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117978461.html?categoryid=1009&cs=1

Warner Bros. will throw all its weight behind Blu-ray later this year, a decision that could serve as a death blow to the rival HD DVD format.

Studio, which had hinted it might drop one format after the holidays, said it decided to back Blu-ray to try and reduce confusion brought on by the high-def format war and better drive mainstream adoption. Warner made the decision heading into the annual Consumer Electronics Show confab in Las Vegas, where it had been skedded to participate in activities promoting the rival HD DVD format on Sunday evening.

Warner execs cited Blu-ray's domestic and international sales as the tipping point in its favor. From the start, the Sony developed format enjoys has had an advantage in greater studio support and the PlayStation 3 console, which plays high-def movies and, at least in the early going, was much more affordable than Blu-ray decks, which have tended to carry a higher price tag than HD DVD counterparts.

Warner's move leaves only Paramount and Universal squarely in the HD DVD camp. Sony, Fox, Disney and Lionsgate all back Blu-ray. Warner sister company New Line confirmed it will shift allegiance to Blu-ray only as well.

Warner has been the sole major backing both formats since late this summer, when Paramount dropped Blu-ray in favor of HD DVD, due in part to marketing incentives proffered by Toshiba and belief HD DVD's lower cost would drive greater mainstream adoption.

However, hardware manufacturers for both sides offered sizable discounts for players during the holidays, reducing the price gap between the two formats. And studios did their part to dangle promotional incentives on the software side.

Yet Warner found that consumers still hesitated to dip their toes into the high-def waters due to confusion over the dueling formats.

"The price impediment was going away, but the take up wasn't increasing that much," said Warner Home Entertainment topper Kevin Tsujihara. "The research was making it pretty clear there was still a tremendous amount of confusion among consumers."

Supporting both formats came with a cost for the studio, which had to maintain dual inventories for their releases. And while the studio had some of the best sellers on high-def when both formats were added together, they couldn't help but wonder whether dual support was helping, or hurting, the transition to a next-gen format.

"By us being both, we were playing into consumer confusion," Tsujihara said. "There's a window of opportunity with first time buyers of HD TVs to also buy a high-def player at the same time."

"The window of opportunity for high-definition DVD could be missed if format confusion continues to linger," Warner Bros. chairman and CEO Barry Meyer seconded.

However, the studio insists that cost was not the underlying motivation for the shift. Paramount drew a lot of flak for taking Toshiba incentives, said to be $150 million, to exclusively back HD DVD.

"This was not a bidding war," Tsujihara said.

He pointed out that worldwide the DVD biz brings in $42 billion annually and his studio draws the greatest portion of that as market share leader.

"That amount far dwarfs any financial incentives," he said.

And indeed, Paramount has maintained that it backed HD DVD because it was generally lower priced and therefore had a greater chance of mass adoption.

Warners' Blu-ray shift has been rumored for some time, but the studio insisted it would wait to see how both formats fared during the crucial holiday sales period before backing one format exclusively. Indeed, late in the fourth quarter, the studio ran full page newspaper ads touting HD DVD benefits on one side and Blu-ray on the other. During this point, homevid topper Ron Sanders talked openly of the need to move beyond the format war and convince consumers of the benefits of high-def (Variety, Dec. 17-23).

Warner’s timing apparently took the HD DVD camp by surprise, however. Thursday afternoon, shortly before Warner said it notified Toshiba of the decision, HD DVD backers were paying media calls. The North American HD DVD Promo Group cancelled its Sunday CES confab after Warner’s went public with the decision Friday afternoon.

The shift doesn’t go into effect until June 1. Sanders said the studio will continue to release HD DVD discs until May 31 to honor its previous commitment to that format’s backers, then switch to Blu-ray only on the high-def front. Last summer, Blockbuster similarly phased out HD DVD discs from rental rotation.

Sanders said the studio will continue to release HD DVD discs until May 31 to honor its previous commitment to that format's backers, then switch to Blu-ray only on the high-def front. Blockbuster similarly phased out HD DVD discs at its rental stores.

Studios and manufacturers have been fighting a pitched battle over high-def because there is so much at stake: Sales of standard DVD has started to decline and digital downloads are even smaller than high-def at this point. DVD sales generate around $16 billion annually for the studios, with rental biz contributing another $8 billion or so to the annual domestic homevid spending.

Warner's decision to back Blu-ray exclusively reps its third shift in high-def strategy. Initially, the studio said it would back HD DVD, then shifted toward dual format support in October 2005, several months before the first high-def discs hit shelves (Daily Variety, Oct. 20, 2005). Paramount made similar moves before settling on HD DVD late this summer (Daily Variety, Aug. 21). That commitment is believed to run through this year.

Warner's shift toward Blu-ray is expected to hasten the demise of HD DVD. Victory would give Sony a long awaited triumph after Betamax lost the videocassette war to VHS.

 

[nofi]

They will settle it at RACE WARZ.

Tease. =)

 

[M°°nblade]

Being money hatted to support a dying format is like peeing in your bed, it´s only warm and cosy for a short time.

POTT (post of the thread)

:lol

 

[Loudninja]

http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117978461.html?categoryid=1009&cs=1

So JB1981, how many people were proven wrong with this post?

 

[JB1981]

So JB1981, how many people were proven wrong with this post?

don't care about anyone being proven wrong

just want to see high-def media prosper.

 

[Loudninja]

don't care about anyone being proven wrong

just want to see high-def media prosper.

Yeah

 

[spwolf]

No, he's right. They license the VC-1 codec from Microsoft as one of their supported codecs - quite a few releases use it, and it's gaining ground.

Wiki

VC-1 is an evolution of the conventional DCT-based video codec design also found in H.261, H.263, MPEG-1, MPEG-2, and MPEG-4. It is widely characterized as an alternative to the latest ITU-T and MPEG video codec standard known as H.264/MPEG-4 AVC. VC-1 contains coding tools for interlaced video sequences as well as progressive encoding. The main goal of VC-1 development and standardization is to support the compression of interlaced content without first converting it to progressive, making it more attractive to broadcast and video industry professionals.

Although widely considered to be Microsoft’s product, there are actually 15 companies in the VC-1 patent pool (as of August 17, 2006). As an SMPTE standard, VC-1 is open to implementation by anyone, although implementers are hypothetically required to pay licensing fees to the MPEG LA, LLC licensing body or directly to its members, who claim to hold essential patents on the format (since it is a non-exclusive licensing body).[1]

MPEG LA, LLC also licences out Blu-Ray .

It is really an moot point, since thats how business's work... a lot of movies are shot with Sony equipment for instance, even if they are Universal movies .

Ppl need to move out of systems wars crap - HD-DVD vs BD was largely Toshiba vs Sony, but both of them work together in million different areas including production of Cell for PS3's...

 

[natureman3]

in my previous 2008 forecasts, i predicted that ps3 success will not be determined in any any way by games (as the number of quality multiplat games >>>>> number of exclusive quality titls) in 2008 but by 2 factors :
- success of blu-ray
- price vs competition.

So 1st one checked, so i guess ps3 has a nice 2008.

 

[Philanthropist]

Michael Bay's comments:

Well another studio down. Maybe I was right? Blu ray is just better. HD DVD will die a slow death. It's what I predicted a year ago. Now with Warner's down for the count with Blu Ray. That makes it easier for Wal-Mart to push Blu Ray. And whatever Wal-Mart pushes - wins. Hd better start giving out those $120 million dollars checks to stay alive. Maybe they can give me some so I can give it to my Make-A-Wish charity, just to shut me up. Have faith people Transformers will come out in Blu-ray one day!

 

[itsgreen]

Michael Bay's comments:

If I was a studio backing HDDVD and I hired Michael Bay I would give him a neckshot for those remarks.

 

[xBerserker]

One day I will have Transformers on Blu-ray!

 

[Vashu]

One day I will have Transformers on Blu-ray!

At max, that would be 2009. But if something were to happen in the next couple of days or weeks, I bet the guys at Paramount are really twisting in their seats, I bet it would be out as soon as possible. They need the extra income.

 

[radioheadrule83]

Michael Bay's comments:

What the fuck... was he having a celebratory drink when he posted that? It's like he can't even write.

 

[acm2000]

my friend has had a ps3 for 4 months, he owns 0 games :lol

 

[urk]

If I was a studio backing HDDVD and I hired Michael Bay I would give him a neckshot for those remarks.

Eh, director's want their films to get into consumers hands in the best quality available. Any thing that splits or waters down their audience is an anathema to them and rightly so. I'm sure the studio doesn't appreciate his remarks, but in the end they have no recourse. They could dump his contract and every other studio would be throwing money at him.

 

[Metalmurphy]

my friend has had a ps3 for 4 months, he owns 0 games :lol

oO



Wrong forum?

 

[Nightz]

my friend has had a ps3 for 4 months, he owns 0 games :lol

OT, but get your friend Uncharted.

 

[Jonnyram]

awe @ Jonnyram and JCBossman in the latter part of this thread.

Please don't tar me with the same brush as JC.

 

[Uncle]

oO



Wrong forum?

Why would it be in the wrong forum? It's directly related to the topic of this thread.

 

[Burai]

I would have said 3 was most likely but I'm a bit stunned by the seemingly astonishing decision of Warner to act in the market's best interest rather than it's own, and the glum tone of Toshiba's press releases and the cancelling of the press event at CES, so it;s all a bit up in the air really.

I don't think it's that surprising really. It's clear that Warner wanted to go HD-DVD, but there's just no way past the fact that Toshiba were giving away players and movies like candy, signing up Paramount and Universal for some pretty big hitters, Warner were keeping their own big hitters like Batman and Matrix back and still Blu ray was pulling away.

Warner could have taken the moneyhat, but there's no point if you're just tossing your catalogue into obscurity. Warner had the common sense to realise that there's no point in taking the cash if nobody is buying and watching movies. Movies are, after all, what they do.

 

[FrankT]

oO



Wrong forum?

Hence gaming forum, which this topic has very little of. However, the thread is pretty delicious at this point.

 

[Metalmurphy]

Why would it be in the wrong forum? It's directly related to the topic of this thread.

It is? :lol

Hence gaming forum, which this topic has very little of. However, the thread is pretty delicious at this point.

I was actually refering to NeoGAF as a whole.

 

[Tobor]

iTunes rentals, XBLM rentals, Comcast On Demand, Plain ol' DVD.

I'm good. Keep your BluRay, and your HD-DVD.

I'll probably still get a BD player eventually, but $299 for the cheapest player? Meh.

"The window of opportunity for high-definition DVD could be missed if format confusion continues to linger," Warner Bros. chairman and CEO Barry Meyer seconded.

I'd argue it's already too late, but we'll see.

 

[Uncle]

It is? :lol

How much profit does Sony make for each PS3 sold? How much money do they make per game sold? How much resources would developers commit to making games for a system that sells more movies than games?

I'm sorry, but the correct _DF approved rebate would have been "anecdotal evidencelol".

 

[Kittonwy]

We wait and see. If there's no press release over CES next week, then just have to assume they're in with HD-DVD to the absolute bitter end, whenever that may be.

Scenarios that might happen:

1) The studios might all get together and decide it's best to just get behind BD now.

2) Toshiba might pull the plug on the hardware, deciding it's costing too much to subsidise the players (which they have been) for little return. That return is only going to get less as things stand now.

3) Everyone keeps doing what they're doing and drives the whole HD Media market into the ground some more.

I would have said 3 was most likely but I'm a bit stunned by the seemingly astonishing decision of Warner to act in the market's best interest rather than it's own, and the glum tone of Toshiba's press releases and the cancelling of the press event at CES, so it;s all a bit up in the air really.

Right now the situation is so heavily in BDA's favor that there's no reason for any of the BDA studios to not pursue a BD future, it's only a matter of time until the remaining HD-DVD studios jump the fence, it's in their best interest to do so quite frankly, it makes no sense for the studios to run the HD market into the ground when they stand to profit from it, obviously the HD-DVD side has lost and the studios don't have any real loyalty or obligations to Toshiba, so long as they can get out, they will.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

iTunes rentals, XBLM rentals, Comcast On Demand, Plain ol' DVD.

I'm good. Keep your BluRay, and your HD-DVD.

I'll probably still get a BD player eventually, but $299 for the cheapest player? Meh.

People argue about the infeasability of Digital Distribution when really the only impediment is hard drive space. I got Children of Men in HD last night for the time it took for me to record it onto my DVR. It's non-transferrable, sure, but it was also free. I doubt I'm the only one who consumes a large portion of their HD content this way, and that's a percentage of the already miniscule segment that actually properly does.

 

[gofreak]

Other HD-DVD studios jumping the fence isn't a matter of happening at CES or not happening at all. I think these events have probably surprised the other studios as much as it has Toshiba, and I doubt they'd have enough time to make any moves that could be announced at CES at this stage.

Doesn't mean it can't happen in the coming months, though. Paramount is contractually stuck with HD-DVD unless there's a get-out of some form, but Universal I think have always maintained that they're not bound to support HD-DVD exclusively.

People argue about the infeasability of Digital Distribution

It's not infeasible..for some people. But for the vast majority, particularly talking globally if not locally in somewhere like the US, there will be a need for physical distribution for quite a long time yet. Blu-ray could well be the last physical standard, but it is needed.

 

[Metalmurphy]

How much profit does Sony make for each PS3 sold? How much money do they make per game sold? How much resources would developers commit to making games for a system that sells more movies than games?

I'm sorry, but the correct _DF approved rebate would have been "anecdotal evidencelol".

Got any hard evidence of that?

 

[Uncle]

Got any hard evidence of that?

To a hypothetical question? WTF, are you special or something?

 

[itsgreen]

Eh, director's want their films to get into consumers hands in the best quality available. Any thing that splits or waters down their audience is an anathema to them and rightly so. I'm sure the studio doesn't appreciate his remarks, but in the end they have no recourse. They could dump his contract and every other studio would be throwing money at him.

I had this discussion last night, there is no difference in quality at the moment between bluray and hddvd.

 

[RiverBed]

my friend has had a ps3 for 4 months, he owns 0 games.

I bet your 'friend's' PS3 isn't lying dormant collecting dust for four months either right? so, what is the point of your post? PS3 kicks ass in non-gaming features as well? only PS3 can do that and have such a position? well, duh.

 

[Kittonwy]

How much profit does Sony make for each PS3 sold? How much money do they make per game sold? How much resources would developers commit to making games for a system that sells more movies than games?

I'm sorry, but the correct _DF approved rebate would have been "anecdotal evidencelol".

More BD drives manufactured means lower costs for Sony since the PS3 uses the PS3 drive, and lower BD manufacturing costs, overall it makes the PS3 more competitive price-wise. As long as you have two aisles of two different hi-def format, people are going to get confused, so the sooner HD-DVD dies, the better this will be for everyone (except for Toshiba and those unfortunate souls who thought it was a good idea to buy the 360 HD-DVD add-on but then that's the price they have to pay so too damn bad rawr).

 

[natureman3]

Sony should offer a proper way out to Toshiba so that it does not lose face so that blu-ray soars faster.

BDA should also, for a very modest price (cost of burning/printing a BRD basically) allow standard exchange of HDDVD to Blu-Ray so that early adopters of HDDVD keep enjoying HD.

But i already feel the pain from 360 HDDVD add on owners.

 

[Loudninja]

Other HD-DVD studios jumping the fence isn't a matter of happening at CES or not happening at all. I think these events have probably surprised the other studios as much as it has Toshiba, and I doubt they'd have enough time to make any moves that could be announced at CES at this stage.

Doesn't mean it can't happen in the coming months, though. Paramount is contractually stuck with HD-DVD unless there's a get-out of some form, but Universal I think have always maintained that they're not bound to support HD-DVD exclusively.



It's not infeasible..for some people. But for the vast majority, particularly talking globally if not locally in somewhere like the US, there will be a need for physical distribution for quite a long time yet. Blu-ray could well be the last physical standard, but it is needed.

The HD-DVD vent is canceled anyways

 

[Metalmurphy]

To a hypothetical question? WTF, are you special or something?

"How much resources would developers commit" was the question, "system that sells more movies than games" was passed as a fact in that question. That's why I asked if you had any evidence...

Maybe you should think twice before saying something like that.