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[Rolf NB]

Clearly it helps the PS3 but I don't think it's nearly close to the game changer some of you folks think it is. The format still has a lot of issues to overcome. You have to look at it from the view of the common consumer and not the videophile. What does the HD media bring to the table other than HD? Also look at the costs and how ingrained DVD is currently. Total HD sales of both formats still account for a minuscule percentage of total home video sales. Remember, this has to be cheap enough that people are willing to replace all of their DVD players, people aren't going to be happy with a movie they can only watch on their big TV, but that they can't watch on the bedroom TV, or the kids can't watch in their play room or in their SUV/Minivan. VHS to DVD didn't have some of these problems, how many cars ship now with DVD players in them for instance as opposed to cars that shipped with a VHS?

And look, one thing we should have learned over here in the game forum is that HD doesn't really matter, case and point being the Wii.

Right now, Amazon.com's top 100 list of disc-based movies contains 32 Blu-ray titles. I bet some of the people buying them are common people.

 

[forgeforsaken]

Right now, Amazon.com's top 100 list of disc-based movies contains 32 Blu-ray titles. I bet some of the people buying them are common people.

Oh jeebus, please don't go the ridiculous Amazon route. According to a quick websearch DVD sold 1.092 billion units in 2007. How man HD disks sold last year?

 

[Kittonwy]

No, I didn't mean that. People are bitching about PS3's library for having so many multi games. So fans desire from SCEI to get some freakin exclusives for the console (agreements/moneyhats with third-parties).
Thus I said SCEI might have changed their strategy (SCEI said we don't care so much about exclusives) & subsequently they stress on Blu-Ray (and other features) to win the war.....

You can't moneyhat publishers without MONEY. I don't think anyone should honestly believe that SCEI actually "changed" their strategy, they just couldn't hold on to exclusives from third-party publishers and that didn't just happened when the PS3 came on the market, that started happening during the PS2 era, even with the PS2 being so dominant.

Will Blu-Ray winning help the PS3? It will somewhat because it now makes PS3's Blu-Ray playback capability much more valuable, but also because more Blu-Ray players manufactured and sold and more Blu-Ray discs manufactured and sold in the end makes it cheaper for Sony to make the PS3 and the Blu-Ray discs which PS3 games are on, savings get passed on either in the form of lower prices OR more ammo for Sony to woo publishers and also work with third-party developers to develop Sony published games.

 

[Yoboman]

Oh jeebus, please don't go the ridiculous Amazon route. According to a quick websearch DVD sold 1.092 billion units in 2007. How man HD disks sold last year?

Does that include recordable discs or just movies and game?

 

[steve]

Oh jeebus, please don't go the ridiculous Amazon route. According to a quick websearch DVD sold 1.092 billion units in 2007. How man HD disks sold last year?

4 dollar bargain bin movies from Wal-mart should not be factored into your equation.

 

[forgeforsaken]

Does that include recordable discs or just movies and game?

Films and TV shows. Though reading the article again that might include the HD media, as it states it includes "next generation DVD sales." Still I'd be surprised if the HD disks comprised more than about 2 million of that 1 billion in unit sales.

http://www.reuters.com/article/industryNews/idUSN0325539220080105

 

[Davidion]

4 dollar bargain bin movies from Wal-mart should not be factored into your equation.

Then you'll also ignore all the free Blu-ray and HD-DVDs given away with systems and players right?

 

[topsyturvy]

Consumer hesitation is starting to hurt DVD, those who want to upgrade don't know which one to upgrade, those who own Blu-Ray can't get certain movies because they're on fucking HD-DVD, but they don't want to buy them on DVD. Because of the format war, they don't buy ANYTHING, HD-DVD hurts everybody who are counting on a smooth transition from DVD to the next format Blu-Ray.

Netflix shipped out 1 billion DVD since 06. thats more then enough to effect dvds, not to mention digital movies and privacy. All those have a much more impact then hd movies so far. Also, why do people speak as if the common consumer just assume to go to the next media? thats that same idea that ps2 owners will go to the ps3, thats just laughable. right now, as you people speak, people still don't even have hd tv sets and ps3s. So why are some of you guys assuming that hi def is hurting dvds?

 

[Dragon]

Then you'll also ignore all the free Blu-ray and HD-DVDs given away with systems and players right?

Well they certainly wouldn't show up in Amazon's top 100 would they?

 

[Dragon]

Netflix shipped out 1 billion DVD since 06. thats more then enough to effect dvds, not to mention digital movies and privacy. All those have a much more impact then hd movies so far. Also, why do people speak as if the common consumer just assume to go to the next media? thats that same idea that ps2 owners will go to the ps3, thats just laughable. right now, as you people speak, people still don't even have hd tv sets and ps3s. So why are some of you guys assuming that hi def is hurting dvds?

It's a little different here. If there's only one choice (and I'm assuming this is the death of HD DVD) then if they want HD discs they'd have to get Blu-ray. A little different from gaming.

 

[Davidion]

Well they certainly wouldn't show up in Amazon's top 100 would they?

:lol Using Amazon to gauge sales is like using the sales of Saturns to gauge the health of the car industry.

The dominant HD format (looking like BD at this point) won't even come close to hitting its stride until the holidays next year, if that. Any one of you who's trying to make blu-ray sales sound more important than it is is friggin delusional. But then again, I'm hardly surprised.

Much like the HD-DVD fanboys should calm down and not wet themselves, you blu-ray people should probably also quit fooling yourself into thinking that your precious format is making any kind of meaningful dent in the market.

 

[gofreak]

I posted another FT article about HD-DVD also cancelled private retailer and analyst meetings at CES, apparently casting doubt over its future among attendees, but here's a second FT article about developments generally with one or two tidbits.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/8d56c2a8-bc89-11dc-bcf9-0000779fd2ac.html

Universal has been the format’s biggest champion but it was tight lipped on Sunday about its next move. It was unclear whether the studios backing HD-DVD would change sides, although it is understood that Paramount has reserved the right to switch its backing to Blu-ray.

I still find it interesting that Universal are leaving Toshiba on their own to fight these fires thusfar, given their frontline roll previously with the press.

 

[topsyturvy]

It's a little different here. If there's only one choice (and I'm assuming this is the death of HD DVD) then if they want HD discs they'd have to get Blu-ray. A little different from gaming.

gaming? i'm talking about the demand of hd movies over dvds. Its obvious that the demand isn't there regardless how the tide of the war is going. Bluray won't be in such demand until 2 years tops.

 

[GauntletFan]

I still find it interesting that Universal are leaving Toshiba on their own to fight these fires thusfar, given their frontline roll previously with the press.

Not enough time has passed. I'm sure there are going to be a lot of meetings within the HD-DVD camp before we hear their next move. Even Toshiba haven't fully spelled out their plans, except to say they aren;t waving the white flag yet.

 

[Rolf NB]

Oh jeebus, please don't go the ridiculous Amazon route. According to a quick websearch DVD sold 1.092 billion units in 2007. How man HD disks sold last year?

Dearest forgeforsaken, please don't go the "statistics are ridiculous" route after all you've contributed to the discussion yourself is the "imaginary common people would support my opinion" route and the "I don't even need hearsay when I can just pull it out of my arse" route.
Blu-ray movies are selling. To people. Your crude disbelief is not changing the world.

 

[gofreak]

Not enough time has passed.

That's true, but previously they've been quick to the defense. I'm wondering if they'll let CES pass without saying anything really past what's been said before.

At the very least it indicates that the announcement wrong-footed a lot of people.

 

[Super_Chicken]

I remember someone saying Microsoft released an hd-dvd add of solely to delay the war. At least until they are able to make direct downloads feasible. I haven't (and probably won't) ever pay on live to rent a HD movie. How long does it take to download them, because a friend of mine said it takes around a couple hours to download.

I'm glad this war is over it just means I can finally buy transformers on blu-ray. I've got all three this-gen systems. I honestly believe that 360 should have launched with the specs of the rumoured ultimate. I dislike having to buy accessory after accessory, but I can see why people dislike the PS3 because they get the feeling they are buying something they don't need.

I was planning on buying the hd-dvd addon because my brother just got a job at blockbuster with free movie rentals, however after this announcement I'm thinking about holding off.

 

[TTP]

That's true, but previously they've been quick to the defense. I'm wondering if they'll let CES pass without saying anything really past what's been said before.

At the very least it indicates that the announcement wrong-footed a lot of people.

U know, I think it would make more commercial sense to just keep going HD-DVD for a while and then switch to Blu-Ray. That way, they might sell Blu-Ray movies re-releases to those that already purchased HD-DVD editions

 

[Kittonwy]

I posted another FT article about HD-DVD also cancelled private retailer and analyst meetings at CES, apparently casting doubt over its future among attendees, but here's a second FT article about developments generally with one or two tidbits.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/8d56c2a8-bc89-11dc-bcf9-0000779fd2ac.html



I still find it interesting that Universal are leaving Toshiba on their own to fight these fires thusfar, given their frontline roll previously with the press.

I agree. I'm kind of surprised by Universal not even voicing ANY support for Toshiba saying shit like "oh we're currently committed the HD-DVD format blahblahblah", even they probably don't think HD-DVD has a fucking chance and are probably planning to bail out.

 

[Snah]

I think Paramount and Universal will fold quickly.

The Warner decision is a megaton, and these companies realize HD-DVD is dead. Why would they waste time supporting the format anymore knowing it can never win? It's just wasted money and profits for them.

I'm sure Paramount and Universal also have to be itching to get in on some of the Blu-Ray action, given how much bigger the market is compared to what HD-DVD had.

 

[gofreak]

I'm kind of surprised by Universal not even voicing ANY support for Toshiba saying shit like "oh we're currently committed the HD-DVD format blahblahblah", even they probably don't think HD-DVD has a fucking chance and are probably planning to bail out.

Well, yeah, even a standard indication of commitment and support might be expectable. AFAIK the only peep out of Universal sofar since Friday re. HD-DVD has been to correct a PR from Thursday and remove HD-DVD from a PR announcing the disc release of Lust, Caution!

They have been so vehement in their support previously, even with bad news (like Paramount and Warner going neutral or the disc sales), that saying NOTHING is curious. I doubt it'll last for long though, I expect them to come out swinging for HD-DVD at their CES conference (whenever that is?)

 

[ndiicm]

I haven't (and probably won't) ever pay on live to rent a HD movie. How long does it take to download them, because a friend of mine said it takes around a couple hours to download.

The whole digital download to rent is retarded which is perfect for the average 360 owner. I have never and will never pay to download a movie that deletes itself shortly after being watched. not on my 360 or anyother device.

Digital distribution is a great model. Anyone that uses bittorrent for unlicensed anime for example will tell you. If you have a server you can store tons of media and stream it over your home network when you need it. The problem is the big media companies and riaa and mpaa etc are going to have to change their attitude towards consumers for this to work for them. Otherwise I predict piracy will only continue to grow and grow simply because it's more efficient not to mention free.

 

[Lightning]

I agree. I'm kind of surprised by Universal not even voicing ANY support for Toshiba saying shit like "oh we're currently committed the HD-DVD format blahblahblah", even they probably don't think HD-DVD has a fucking chance and are probably planning to bail out.

Yeah, Universal silence is very weird. I remember when Paramount went HD DVD exclusive, the first thing FOX done was announce more Bluray movies and re-confirm commitment to the format. Universal silence cannot be a good thing, they should be supporting Toshiba in the media rather than giving the silent treatment.

 

[Super_Chicken]

I think Paramount and Universal will fold quickly.

The Warner decision is a megaton, and these companies realize HD-DVD is dead. Why would they waste time supporting the format anymore knowing it can never win? It's just wasted money and profits for them.

I want to see what announcements get made at CES. If apple makes a blu-ray announcement we'll see the mac fanboys light up about it.

 

[Elbrain]

I think Paramount and Universal will fold quickly.

The Warner decision is a megaton, and these companies realize HD-DVD is dead. Why would they waste time supporting the format anymore knowing it can never win? It's just wasted money and profits for them.

I'm sure Paramount and Universal also have to be itching to get in on some of the Blu-Ray action, given how much bigger the market is compared to what HD-DVD had.

I hope they do that quick rather than later cause I need me some of their movies.

 

[west]

U know, I think it would make more commercial sense to just keep going HD-DVD for a while and then switch to Blu-Ray. That way, they might sell Blu-Ray movies re-releases to those that already purchased HD-DVD editions

If Universal was thinking of a switch I think their main concern right now would be their current stock and production lines. If Universal would announce a switch today the hddvd marked would die overnight (A lot faster than now). By keeping quiet they can at least have some sort of transitional period to empty stock, shift production. The production pipeline is quite long, thus the timing on Warners announcement.

More realistically they have just not decided yet.

 

[Snah]

I hope they do that quick rather than later cause I need me some of their movies.

Agreed. I'd really like to have the Bourne movies.

Though, oddly enough, my most anticipated titles that are HD-DVD exclusive now are WARNER titles....The Matrix, Batman Begins, and V for Vendetta.

I just can't see Universal and Paramount holding out. There's no reason to at this point. If they don't announce blu-ray support at CES (which they should), then they'll do it shortly thereafter.

 

[FIREBABY]

The whole digital download to rent is retarded which perfect for the average 360 owner. I have never and will never pay to download a movie that deletes itself shortly after being watched. not on my 360 or anyother device.

Digital distribution is a great model. Anyone that uses bittorrent for unlicensed anime for example will tell you. If you have a server you can store tons of media and stream it over your home network when you need it. The problem is the big media companies and riaa and mpaa etc are going to have to change their attitude towards consumers for this to work for them. Otherwise I predict piracy will only continue to grow and grow simply because it's more efficient not to mention free.

:lol WTF. And yes it is a stupid idea to rent a digital download, but buying would be better. I agree with what you said, but the bolded part. Wow:lol

 

[badcrumble]

I want to see what announcements get made at CES. If apple makes a blu-ray announcement we'll see the mac fanboys light up about it.

If Apple announces Blu-Ray drives available BTO for the iMac I'll sell my four-month-old 24" to get one of those babies

And PLEASE Universal at least let your NBC television shows release on Blu-Ray.

 

[gofreak]

Wired has some commentary on the "will he/won't he" situation re. HD-DVD and Bill Gates' keynote.

http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2008/01/ces-2008-burnin.html

I said before that I'd be surprised if he addresses HD-DVD much, but the article makes the good point that if he avoids it, it'll look like he's isolating Toshiba. Then again, Toshiba are arguably isolating themselves by cancelling all the HD-DVD events. I expect probably something "down-the-middle" as the article suggests as another possibility.

 

[B-Ri]

universal, hurry the fuck up

children of men and eternal sunshine blu-ray are day one sales for me sirs.

edit:

also to officially put my stance down, i would rent movies off live or on demand, hell i rent movies on netflix, but it doesnt stop me from buying the movies i want (netflix has been mainly used to watch rare and foreign films i dont have immediate access too.) They co-exist, ppv, rentals, ect.

 

[ndiicm]

:lol WTF. And yes it is a stupid idea to rent a digital download, but buying would be better. I agree with what you said, but the bolded part. Wow:lol

I just have to say it how it is man. :lol

 

[Aggelos]

I agree. I'm kind of surprised by Universal not even voicing ANY support for Toshiba saying shit like "oh we're currently committed the HD-DVD format blahblahblah", even they probably don't think HD-DVD has a fucking chance and are probably planning to bail out.

I think you can expect from Universal to change sides soon, as their silence about the issue is very scandalous/disconcerting

 

[InterMoniker]

Spin cycle set on "Desperation".

:lol

 

[justjohn]

i just want my bourne ultimatum on blu-ray. thats all i ask

 

[Byakuya769]

Send her some flowers, that always works. Card should have a cute kitton on it and say, "can I haz a PS3 pleazzz? You can play Singstar on it honey."

Haha, I'm sorry Kittonwy.. but whenever I see a post by you I look at that avatar and I honestly believe that you are that little kitten. A cool kitten though.

 

[Rolf NB]

Yeah, and the reason being... companies with some kind of agreement between them usually anticipate to the partner what they are about to announce at a given time so that the partner can act accordingly. But in this case (as well as in the Philips/Nintendo one), Toshiba was clearly in the dark until shit hit the fan. I wonder why Warner acted this way. I mean, they could have told Toshiba something like "look, we are going Blu-Ray only" a month ago so that they would be prepared. But they waited till everything was set for CES to drop the bomb. It's odd. It's like they really wanted to hurt. A japanese company, that is. And you dont want to fuck up with Japanese companies. Look what happened to Sony after Nintendo backstabbed them.

Short version: Toshiba to rule the digital entertainment world by 2020 :lol

Toshiba has been self-backstabbing furiously for two years now. It doesn't look like stabbing alone can achieve anything.

 

[Super_Chicken]

Even before the PS3 announcement of blu-ray I wanted it to win on the fact that it holds more than storage then HD-dvd.

I'm looking forward to transformers and other movies on blu-ray. Like others have said, I hold off of buying movies on DVD when they come out on HD-dvd and DVD just because I hope they'd eventually see release on blu-ray.

 

[InterMoniker]

It's one of the common 'anti-Sony fanboy' arguments. "I can't support Sony because their evil marketing stopped everyone from buying Dreamcasts!"

This whole situation hits a nerve with some people because it means that the other big anti-Sony fallacy of "They forced another evil Sony-proprietary format on us!" would appear to be coming true.

What these same people tend to forget is that piracy mostly killed the Dreamcast once the GDRom format was figured out, that and Microsoft knifing them in the back then nicking all the expertise gained from the partnership to kickstart it's own XBox venture - and that Toshiba was the one in this case trying to push a proprietary format - Blu Ray was the more open, industry-friendly format in this case. Toshiba were scared an early transfer to a new generation of optical media would end it's gravy train of DVD royalties, so rushed out a successor specification that they owned.

So basically the hate really doesn't make much sense at all. More like a grudge of some sort like..... "Damn yous s0ny pushing another format and your 50gb blu-ray that holds 1080p content, digital downloads are the wave of the future" "You ruined my dreamcast" You can't blame Sony for axing the DC just because they were smart enough to include DVD to the ps2.

Funny I had a Dreamcast and got a Ps2 without hesitation. So I can't understand the hate at all. GD-roms couldn't play movies! When I first heard of the ps2 and DVD's I was like "Oh shit it's going to be like audio CD's taking over, DVD movies will take over just like CD's" And it did turn out like that.

Sony has always been on top with formats. They invented the CD which would have been in a Nintendo system but they backed out. Then CD's became insanely popular with the ps1.

Then the ps2 came along with DVD disc's and Sony had done it again!!

Then sure enough Blu-ray and the ps3. Except many people wanted to pretend it wasn't happening. Going on and on with wii and 360 sales data. I knew this day would come for Blu-ray it was only a matter of time.

I guess I can kind of see where the irrational hate can come from now but it's just so silly. It's like a childish grudge. And all the negative media surrounding the ps3 was only fueling that for a while.

Even before the PS3 announcement of blu-ray I wanted it to win on the fact that it holds more than storage then HD-dvd.

I'm looking forward to transformers and other movies on blu-ray. Like others have said, I hold off of buying movies on DVD when they come out on HD-dvd and DVD just because I hope they'd eventually see release on blu-ray.

Not just more storage but a higher bit rate that allows better audio and picture quality.

 

[forgeforsaken]

Dearest forgeforsaken, please don't go the "statistics are ridiculous" route after all you've contributed to the discussion yourself is the "imaginary common people would support my opinion" route and the "I don't even need hearsay when I can just pull it out of my arse" route.
Blu-ray movies are selling. To people. Your crude disbelief is not changing the world.

What the fuck are you talking about? I've only posted real numbers that I can find and real actual problems that either HD movie format needs to overcome.

 

[InterMoniker]

I remember someone saying Microsoft released an hd-dvd add of solely to delay the war. At least until they are able to make direct downloads feasible. I haven't (and probably won't) ever pay on live to rent a HD movie. How long does it take to download them, because a friend of mine said it takes around a couple hours to download.

I'm glad this war is over it just means I can finally buy transformers on blu-ray. I've got all three this-gen systems. I honestly believe that 360 should have launched with the specs of the rumoured ultimate. I dislike having to buy accessory after accessory, but I can see why people dislike the PS3 because they get the feeling they are buying something they don't need.

I was planning on buying the hd-dvd addon because my brother just got a job at blockbuster with free movie rentals, however after this announcement I'm thinking about holding off.

Yeah downloading a couple HD movies that are Blu-ray quality would fill your drive in no time. Some of the movies are going over 25gb single layer discs and onto the 50gb discs.

Not to mention the fact that if your hard-drive goes out all your content is trapped.

Blu-ray makes too much sense.

 

[Eteric Rice]

Hard drives are actually pretty cheap now adays. You can get a 500gig hard drive for hardly nothing. I'd say in about 4 years from now a box where you can download your movies wouldn't be to far fetched.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136073

The problem is internet connection, really.

 

[Psychotext]

The whole digital download to rent is retarded which is perfect for the average 360 owner. I have never and will never pay to download a movie that deletes itself shortly after being watched. not on my 360 or anyother device.

How you aren't banned yet is beyond me... that aside, I've been using this sort of service in the UK (Virgin on demand) for quite some time now and I think it's great. Sometimes I just feel like watching a movie so being able to get one within 15 mins is just perfect for me.

Planning in advance is fine for things like Lovefilm, but sometimes I just want to throw something to watch on.

 

[LowParry]

Hard drives are actually pretty cheap now adays. You can get a 500gig hard drive for hardly nothing. I'd say in about 4 years from now a box where you can download your movies wouldn't be to far fetched.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136073

The problem is internet connection, really.

If only an external HDD like that could be that price. I'd be all over that.

 

[InterMoniker]

Hard drives are actually pretty cheap now adays. You can get a 500gig hard drive for hardly nothing. I'd say in about 4 years from now a box where you can download your movies wouldn't be to far fetched.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136073

The problem is internet connection, really.

A lot can happen in 4 years. And it does sound far fetched.


I want a movie on actual disc not some digital bits.

How are you going to take your dlc movies to a friends house? Ever think about that?

 

[Jel0man]

From the Philips CES press event:

Target is going Blu-ray exclusive according to Stewart. That's something. Not totally sure that that's 100-percent official. We shall investigate.

http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/06/live-coverage-from-the-philips-press-event/

 

[gofreak]

I thought Target already announced something like that..or that they were favouring BD at least.

Also, reading a bit more about the Toshiba conference here. It confirms that Toshiba announced no new HD-DVD related product, and the conference was cut from a planned 45 minutes to 30 minutes, and there were no questions taken. Might fuel speculation about what Toshiba might have spoken about in different circumstances, and why they aren't now (i.e. they're effectively being non-commital, for now at least).

 

[Eteric Rice]

A lot can happen in 4 years. And it does sound far fetched.


I want a movie on actual disc not some digital bits.

How are you going to take your dlc movies to a friends house? Ever think about that?

Are you serious? I hope you realize that a Blu-Ray disc is pretty much digital bits on a disc. :lol Also, hard drives can be made portable like the 360's hard drive, so I could take my whole movie collection to a friend's house.

My God though, don't drag me into your fanboy debate. Seriously. I'm just saying that if the internet connection issue could be overcome, it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility at all.

I'm not trying to condemn blu-ray or something. Jeeze.

 

[Valkyr Junkie]

I thought Target already announced something like that..or that they were favouring BD at least.

Yup, they started putting up BD endcaps in stores.

 

[Snah]

I thought Target already announced something like that..or that they were favouring BD at least.

Also, reading a bit more about the Toshiba conference here. It confirms that Toshiba announced no new HD-DVD related product, and the conference was cut from a planned 45 minutes to 30 minutes, and there were no questions taken. Might fuel speculation about what Toshiba might have spoken about in different circumstances, and why they aren't now (i.e. they're effectively being non-commital, for now at least).

I believe Target sold both HD-DVDs and Blu-Ray movies, but they were Blu-Ray exclusive for the players.

Now they are 100% Blu.

This is good news. I honestly think that everything will settle pretty much by the end of CES.