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[mckmas8808]

All it will take is a profile that you purchase movie licenses with that give you access to this content whenever you want.... like I said, an evolution to the business model. How can you be so short-sighted.

Why do you think the movie company want that business model to be the best way to get their product?

 

[Dirtbag]

For quality reproduction? No it won't.


For most people, there will simply not be a way to get the same level of quality by an on-demand service (assuming its ever even offered).

Secondly, OnDemand has no ownership. There are movies people like to watch a number of times ... the pricing for OnDemand makes that a poor choice.

iTv services tying your movie purchases to your msn id (or mac id) with streaming 1080p content is not far off at all.

Cable currently streams 720p just fine.

 

[Raistlin]

Physical media can be rented or bought too. I really think this is splitting hairs.

This is NOT splitting hairs when talking about OnDemand versus DD purchases.

One you can end up owning the content (ie. view it whenever you want, forever) ... the other you can't.

 

[Dirtbag]

Why do you think the movie company want that business model to be the best way to get their product?

copy-protection. same reason game designers like digital downloads, and no used sales market.

$

 

[kaching]

I would consider On-Demand digital distribution, not a basic cable subscription.

Right, but all you said was "I've always considered cable subscription to be a form of Digital Distribution". Cable subscriptions did not always come with on demand services and some still don't. If you're going to take others to task for "semantics"...

 

[Raistlin]

All it will take is a profile that you purchase movie licenses with that give you access to this content whenever you want.... like I said, an evolution to the business model. How can you be so short-sighted.

:lol

I'm not being short-sighted ... I was stating what the terms mean RIGHT NOW. Jesus

 

[Dirtbag]

We already see the hassle with XBL and XBLA games combined with DRM and your profile. As soon as the device crashes and you get a new one, the problems begin.

onDemand requires only a subscription service and a cablebox.

Very different. How can you be so sure DD is going to be that kind? Pirates will change that quickly.

Because you have to watch it at your house. You are easy to arrest.

 

[Raistlin]

iTv services tying your movie purchases to your msn id (or mac id) with streaming 1080p content is not far off at all.

Cable currently streams 720p just fine.

720p just fine? Not quite

 

[Dirtbag]

:lol

I'm not being short-sighted ... I was stating what the terms mean RIGHT NOW. Jesus

and right now blu-ray has to beat dvd... which I don't think is going to happen, within 5 years time b4 DD takes over.

 

[jeremy_ricci]

Because you have to watch it at your house. You are easy to arrest.

Well, believe what you will. Your attutide speaks volumes to your approach. DD is not the way to go, physical media combined with on demand services are the 'sure fire' solution.

DD as Gates see's it (i.e. what's available on your 360) will never see the light of day in the mainstream consumers eye's. It simply won't be a large scale success.

 

[Dirtbag]

Well, believe what you will. Your attutide speaks volumes to your approach. DD is not the way to go, physical media combined with on demand services are the 'sure fire' solution.

DD as Gates see's it (i.e. what's available on your 360) will never see the light of day in the mainstream consumers eye's. It simply won't be a large scale success.

I totally agree to that.
DD will beat blu-ray to mass market adoption however, that I am certain of.

 

[SRG01]

I must address something here about on-demand services: the technology behind it is intrinsicly different from traditional DD. On-demand, like most cable/satellite services, run on larger, dedicated lines and have more bandwidth than most internet lines, whether it be Cable or ADSL.

You can reliably stream HD content (720p/1080i) from any of these providers. Doing that over a typical internet service provider is another matter altogether.

 

[mckmas8808]

I totally agree to that.
DD will beat blu-ray to mass market adoption however, that I am certain of.

What do you mean when you say "mass market adoption"?

 

[Dirtbag]

I must address something here about on-demand services: the technology behind it is intrinsicly different from traditional DD. On-demand, like most cable/satellite services, run on larger, dedicated lines and have more bandwidth than most internet lines, whether it be Cable or ADSL.

You can reliably stream HD content (720p/1080i) from any of these providers. Doing that over a typical internet service provider is another matter altogether.

iTv requires a separate line run. It's not (currently) shared with your existing internet connection.

What do you mean when you say "mass market adoption"?

the next dvd / vhs. That's what I mean. Blu-ray will be a beautiful niche product.

 

[M3Freak]

3) The service has to be widely available to everyone in the US. The fact still remains that most of the US population does not have internet fast enough to get the content in a timely manner. It will take at least another 5 years before DD can become a standardized reality to all consumers. As it is right now, anyone can buy an HDTV and Blu-Ray player, they don't need to meet the many requirements that DD presents.

5 years? No way. You're looking at a 10+ year time line. I'm guessing it's going to be 20 to 25 years before a good percentage of people can get 100 Mbps connections for $25 to $50 per month.

I don't think people realize it: the entire telecom infrastructure in North America has to be rebuilt. All of it. We're talking tens, maybe hundreds, of billions of dollars of investment. What we do now has to be built for the next 100 + years. This is not a small task.

Why people are throwing around this DD thing as if it's going to happen next year is beyond me. If I can get 50 Mbps service for $50 in 10 years, I'll be amazed. If I can get 100 Mbps for the same price, I better buy up some telecom stock - they'll make a killing.

BTW, in smaller, densly populated countries this is going to happen much, much faster. Just look at Japan and South Korea - consumers can get 100 Mbps Internet
connections right now for about $25/mth - holy shit.

 

[Raistlin]

and right now blu-ray has to beat dvd... which I don't think is going to happen, within 5 years time b4 DD takes over.

1) DD will not take over in 5 years. It is impossible. There will be tens of millions (if not hundreds) of current DVD purchasers that will not even have it as a viable option in 5 years ... so how the hell can it take over? And that is only one of its problems.

2) Why does BD have to 'beat' DVD anyway? We are moving into a world where people want content 'their way'. In other words, there will be some titles people want to own physically ... but don't care about IQ all that much (DVD) ... some where they will want easy portablility (streamed or on a memory card, etc ... perfect for DD) ... and other stuff where they will want super high quality reproduction along with their ownership (BD).


Basically, they can all likely work fine together ... since they all offer different benefits. What you seem to be forgetting is that the IP owners, regardless of how it is distributed ... are the same. The studios don't give a shit how you get it ... as long as you pay for it

They are more than happy to offer it in multiple fashions.

 

[Loudninja]

I dont know where to put this!

LBP Update

New additions include new emotions for the game's main characters, little stuffed sackcloth creatures called Sackboys. Click up on the controller's D-pad to make the creature go from straight-faced to smiling, to grinning to deliriously happy, tongue hanging out for emphasis. Click down on the D-pad to turn him into a scowling sourpuss. Sackboy's newfound emotions will also affect his other gestures. He'll shoot the peace sign, Nixon-style, if he's in a good mood and bare his fists if he's in a bad mood.

This small attention to detail makes this game both visually appealing and just plain charming. Game producer Kyle Shubel says he's never seen a team "so obsessed" with bringing a world to life using intricate textures and "things that remind them of their childhood."

Sackboys can now move from front to back in the environment, and no longer just from side to side. Easter eggs with new items can be placed around the game – pick them up to add a leaf shape or new texture, etc. to build your sackboys' inventory and ultimately enjoy more flexibility when creating or adding something to different levels.

Little Big Planet's currency – formerly called Sponge – is now called Fluff, which in the level we played last night looked like tiny pastel colored Marshmallows.

"We got rid of Sponge because it could only look like one thing ... a sponge," says Shubel, indicating that the Fluff would change its appearance based on the level.

To create a game from scratch, the user opens an empty room and then, armed with a vast menu of shapes, textures and pre-rendered images, turn it into an interactive piece of art. Facing the blank canvas can be a bit daunting, but we could fill up the space using pre-rendered environments (in this case we used a desert background with big rocks and tall brown grass).

Shubel then demonstrated how to make a simple tree by replicating and resizing a Y-shape, addling leaves and then copying the entire tree several times to create a wooded area. While watching Shubel expertly put all of these pieces together, building your own levels might be daunting for the super casual user. On the other hand, it's hard to knock a game that empowers the gamer to do something more than vegetate on the sofa, mashing buttons on a controller while issuing commands over a voice-chat enabled headset.

Shubel also mentioned that people's creativity might lead them to create R-rated content in the game, which will call for the game makers to integrate a rating system for user-created levels (something that's in the works) and some kind of parental control to keep young ones from accessing materials meant for mature eyes only.

Little Big Planet still lack a release date, though we expect it to hit PlayStatio

http://www.gamedaily.com/games/litt...res/little-big-planet-update/5881/71318/?biz=

day one

Edit:Someone can make a topic if they want

 

[Dirtbag]

1) DD will not take over in 5 years. It is impossible. There will be tens of millions (if not hundreds) of current DVD purchasers that will not even have it as a viable option in 5 years ... so how the hell can it take over? And that is only one of its problems.

2) Why does BD have to 'beat' DVD anyway? We are moving into a world where people content 'their way'. In other words, there will be some titles people want to own physically ... but don't care about IQ all that much (DVD) ... some where they will want easy portablility (streamed or on a memory card, etc ... perfect for DD) ... and other stuff where they will want super high quality reproduction along with their ownership (BD).


Basically, they can all likely work fine together ... since they all offer different benefits. What you seem to be forgetting is that the IP owners, regardless of how it is distributed ... are the same. They don't care how you get it ... as long as you pay for it

They are more than happy to offer it in multiple fashions.

Explain that to the movie studios. I agree, but they exist to make the most money possible. They want the next dvd, not necessarily the consumer.

you've made some good points though, I see your side. I know I've made some points some of you hadn't considered. I guess we'll just wait and see. In 5 years we can laugh at the loser.

 

[WrikaWrek]

By soon I mean its not happening anytime that's going to have any serious impact on how successful BR turns out to be. Which is why its pointless to bring it into this discussion.

Well how successfull BR turns out to be doesn't really mater to the Gaming Forum and that didn't made this thread placement pointless.

However i do think it's a valide argument that a combination of DVD healthy sales and DD in the horizon, BR might not turn out as successfull as the DVD has. So it's not that pointless.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

your tv sucks. Both of my HD Ready TV's can apply stretching to whatever source/input.

Now you are thinking that they will continue watching SD TV because of the letterbox? They wont notice the difference between SD and HD?

:lol

Laugh all you want. I've seen it happen more than once. Your gales of laughter do negate the phenomenon's existence.

 

[M3Freak]

People who are thinking digital distribution can't succeed because of the bandwidth to move movies the size of those on a blu-ray disk are being narrow minded. DD doesn't need to match that level of quality to really succeed. As long as DD can come in at better quality than current DVD it will probably be fine. I still think DD is the true heir to DVD, with the higher quality physical media existing side by side with it but being more niche. Really I see the HD disk formats being a lot like laserdisk in a way, though I do think they are going to be way way more successful than laserdisk, heck I think at their current level they already are.

Why the hell would I accept lower quality DD HD content after seeing the glory of 1080P BD movies? Why? Are you mad?

 

[SRG01]

I don't think people realize it: the entire telecom infrastructure in North America has to be rebuilt. All of it. We're talking tens, maybe hundreds, of billions of dollars of investment. What we do now has to be built for the next 100 + years. This is not a small task.

It's a nice dream, but it will never happen. Did you see what happened last time when they tried to put up fiberoptic lines across the continent? :lol We went from, what, a fiberoptic standard to stranded copper wire!! :lol

Telecoms will never ever ever ever spend the capital to do this. Not even when they were throwing money at micromirror technologies.

 

[Raistlin]

Explain that to the movie studios.

? Most studios are invovled (partnered) in DD and OnDemand ... and several offer or are working on their own solutions. It has been slow, but that is due to them trying to make sure the DRM is suitable

I agree, but they exist to make the most money possible. They want the next dvd, not necessarily the consumer.

And I believe they realize multiple baskets is the best approach. As for wanting a 'next DVD', of course they do. Its typically easier to control (piracy), and generally offers higher margins.

That said, are you sure the consumer doesn't want it? The people with decent HDTV's seem to be quite happy. As more and more people move up to HDTV's, the demand will obviously grow.

 

[InterMoniker]

For HD-DVD? Obviously. Have you even read all of my posts in this thread?

Right HD-DVD's dead.

I probably haven't seen all of your posts but you and a couple others keep babbling on and on about about Digital downloads and on demand. You claim that you can't see the difference between a downloaded hd movie and a blu-ray. Well the difference is there and everyone can see the higher quality video/audio that isn't trying to boycott blu-ray in favor of DD or On Demand because of their biases.

Thats basically what I've gathered. Bu bu bu digital download and On Demand will take off!! Digital Download Defense Force Assemble!!!

 

[herod]

Blu-ray is DD for me anyway. I log on to Amazon, order the disc I want and it arrives less than 24 hours later. Which is probably quicker than my shitty DSL line could get a film with a quarter of the bitrate.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Right HD-DVD's dead.

I probably haven't seen all of your posts but you and a couple others keep babbling on and on about about Digital downloads and on demand. You claim that you can't see the difference between a downloaded hd movie and a blu-ray. Well the difference is there and everyone can see the quality difference that isn't trying to boycott blu-ray in favor of DD or On Demand because of their biases.

Thats basically what I've gathered. Bu bu bu digital download and On Demand will take off!! Digital Download Defense Force Assemble!!!

Yeah you haven't read my posts because I'm not boycotting a thing.

 

[Dirtbag]

Blu-ray is DD for me anyway. I log on to Amazon, order the disc I want and it arrives less than 24 hours later. Which is probably quicker than my shitty DSL line could get a film with a quarter of the bitrate.

touché

 

[Raistlin]

Blu-ray is DD for me anyway. I log on to Amazon, order the disc I want and it arrives less than 24 hours later. Which is probably quicker than my shitty DSL line could get a film with a quarter of the bitrate.

:lol :lol :lol

 

[InterMoniker]

Yeah you haven't read my posts because I'm not boycotting a thing.

Ok but that's what it sounds like to me.

 

[M3Freak]

Sorry but none of these are true.

You are massively discounting the effect that pillarboxing has on the average television viewer, regardless of the quality of their HDTV or Calibration thereof. There are very view HD channels that are completely free from 4:3 content. And cable boxes hardcode a 16:9 HD signal, at least on my TV. This means that you can't stretch the content. And that means that you're stuck with pillarboxing. And that's an unacceptable solution for a lot of TV viewers, regardless of how they're TV is calibrated. Thus, they'll stick to standard def channels that maintain the zoom that they're using to fill the entire 16:9 screen.

I don't even know what your reply has to do with what I wrote.

1080P content is leagues better than SD. I do not understand how anyone can watch a Tier 0 or 1 BD movie on my setup and still think it's not much better than SD. I even do side by side comparisons - DVDs look like unfocused crap when compared to BD material.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Ok but that's what it sounds like to me.

As I've said, I'm not talking about what I'M going to do. I'm buying a Blu-Ray player as soon as I can afford one, especially since Criterion will undoubtedly be jumping over there before too long now. I'm talking about the potential realities of the marketplace.

I'm not looking at this personally, I'm looking at it objectively.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

I don't even know what your reply has to do with what I wrote.

1080P content is leagues better than SD. I do not understand how anyone can watch a Tier 0 or 1 BD movie on my setup and still think it's not much better than SD.

I doubt they'd think that, honestly. No one's that blind or stupid. Most people think, however, that a stretched 480 picture is "good enough". That's all.

 

[SRG01]

Blu-ray is DD for me anyway. I log on to Amazon, order the disc I want and it arrives less than 24 hours later. Which is probably quicker than my shitty DSL line could get a film with a quarter of the bitrate.

...

What are you paying for shipping? You have Amazon Prime, don't you?! :lol

 

[mckmas8808]

the next dvd / vhs. That's what I mean. Blu-ray will be a beautiful niche product.

So you think most people in the year 2010 will be buying their movies off the internet through their devices hooked up to their TV?

 

[Doc Evils]

Just one more informal item (rumor) and 1 more news:

Rumor: www.digitalbits.com

Helping HD DVD consumers

"One last note this evening: That idea I floated yesterday, that the BDA should offer an olive branch to HD-DVD consumers? I mentioned it to senior BDA executives this evening, and I think you can safely say that they're going to move forward with something along these very lines in the weeks ahead. We'll post more when we can, but the idea was definitely warmly received. In fact, plans are already in the works. We'll post more on this as things develop."



News: http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=816

That would really kill of HD-DVD.

 

[Hesemonni]

Blu-ray is DD for me anyway. I log on to Amazon, order the disc I want and it arrives less than 24 hours later. Which is probably quicker than my shitty DSL line could get a film with a quarter of the bitrate.

That's the way you do it

 

[Dirtbag]

So you think most people in the year 2010 will be buying their movies off the internet through their devices hooked up to their TV?

2012-2013... yes.
2010 they will still be buying dvd.

 

[duk]

i just want to say i love HD movies, that is all

 

[Minsc]

Now you are thinking that they will continue watching SD TV because of the letterbox? They wont notice the difference between SD and HD?

:lol

They'll continue watching SD TV for those reasons, yes. They may notice a difference but they really won't care. For the reasons mentioned, and even more importantly, because they don't want push different numbers in to the remote to watch their channels. And don't forget a lot of people will be unable to because they're connected to their HDTV via a composite cable.

And I'm saying this from real-life experiences (though I personally hooked up the TVs with proper cables, people have no desire to change their habits and watch HD content over SD). The vast majority people I know could care less about HD when it comes to watching it, they just care about owning a big TV.

 

[Raistlin]

...

What are you paying for shipping? You have Amazon Prime, don't you?! :lol

For Prime members, 2-day shipping is free.

(I just bought 8 BD's with the BOGO )

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

They'll continue watching SD TV for those reasons, yes. They may notice a difference but they really won't care. For the reasons mentioned, and even more importantly, because they don't want push different numbers in to the remote to watch their channels. And don't forget a lot of people will be unable to because they're connected to their HDTV via a composite cable.

And I'm saying this from real-life experiences (though I personally hooked up the TVs with proper cables, people have no desire to change their habits and watch HD content over SD). The vast majority people I know could care less about HD when it comes to watching it, they just care about owning a big TV.

Ding. I still can't believe this indisputable fact is met with LOLs.

 

[InterMoniker]

iTv requires a separate line run. It's not (currently) shared with your existing internet connection.


the next dvd / vhs. That's what I mean. Blu-ray will be a beautiful niche product.

O R'ly?

Blu-ray is DD for me anyway. I log on to Amazon, order the disc I want and it arrives less than 24 hours later. Which is probably quicker than my shitty DSL line could get a film with a quarter of the bitrate.

Yup thats why digital downloads won't work. Especially since these blu-ray movies keep getting bigger and bigger. A downloading 50gb movie would be fucking insane and take waaaay too long.

Plus the hard-drive issues. I.E. not enough space or if your HDD drive craps out your movies are gone.


How convenient is it that the same people who said DVD is enough (compression! compression! compression!) are now praising digital downloads?

I have to ask you BenjaminBirdie how big of a file size are you willing to download?

10-15 gigs a movie still won't = Blu-ray quality

 

[SRG01]

For Prime members, 2-day shipping is free.

(I just bought 8 BD's with the BOGO )

I'm tempted to get Amazon Prime, but I'm broke enough already. :lol

 

[gofreak]

That would really kill of HD-DVD.

I think they should really try and do that in conjunction with a Toshiba climbdown, in partnership with Toshiba.

It might sound a bit harsh, but Toshiba should help clean up its own mess. I've said before, but switching to Blu-ray, offering a Blu-ray machine with rebates or exchanges for existing HD-DVD owners, and the BDA in general offering exchanges on movies, would be a graceful way out of this. That said, though, doing this post-Xmas would probably cost an awful lot more than if they had ceded a long time ago.

 

[Forsete]

Blu-ray is DD for me anyway. I log on to Amazon, order the disc I want and it arrives less than 24 hours later. Which is probably quicker than my shitty DSL line could get a film with a quarter of the bitrate.

Haha, awesome. :lol

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

How convenient is it that the same people who said DVD is enough (compression! compression! compression!) are now praising digital downloads?

I have to ask you BenjaminBirdie how big of a file size are you willing to download?

10-15 gigs a movie still won't = Blu-ray quality

Why are you still asking me? I'M buying a Blu-Ray player! I'm talking about the majority of the home video market, not you or I.

 

[mckmas8808]

I doubt they'd think that, honestly. No one's that blind or stupid. Most people think, however, that a stretched 480 picture is "good enough". That's all.

You must not talk to guys that watch football?

 

[Dirtbag]

O R'ly?

Yup thats why digital downloads won't work. Especially since these blu-ray movies keep getting bigger and bigger. A downloading 50gb movie would be fucking insane and take waaaay too long.

Plus the hard-drive issues. I.E. not enough space or if your HDD drive craps out your movies are gone.


How convenient is it that the same people who said DVD is enough (compression! compression! compression!) are now praising digital downloads?

I have to ask you BenjaminBirdie how big of a file size are you willing to download?

10-15 gigs a movie still won't = Blu-ray quality

You most likely won't even have it on a hard-drive, you will it stream it from your television provider.

 

[mckmas8808]

Ding. I still can't believe this indisputable fact is met with LOLs.

So what happens when those people start to get 100 HD channels and get use to the "look" of a HD broadcast?

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

You must not talk to guys that watch football?

You'd be surprised.