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[patsu]

I think they should really try and do that in conjunction with a Toshiba climbdown, in partnership with Toshiba.

It might sound a bit harsh, but Toshiba should help clean up its own mess. I've said before, but switching to Blu-ray, offering a Blu-ray machine with rebates or exchanges for existing HD-DVD owners, and the BDA in general offering exchanges on movies, would be a graceful way out of this. That said, though, doing this post-Xmas would probably cost an awful lot more than if they had ceded a long time ago.

There may be too much passion/emotion poured into the HD DVD program. The Toshiba exec should be sidelined for this program (move to other programs to cool down) while his peers come in to clean up... unless he volunteers himself.

There is much to fear against a Blu-ray Toshiba (SPUREngine, drive and such).

 

[Dirtbag]

There may be too much passion/emotion poured into the HD DVD program. The Toshiba exec should be sidelined for this program (move to other programs to cool down) while his peers come in to clean up... unless he volunteers himself.

I think the guys that marketed HD-DVD should have to clean it all up.
They did a terrible job.

 

[belvedere]

The lengths people go to downplay positive PS3 related news around here are hilarious.

I'm saving some of these quotes for a future top 10 list.

 

[patsu]

I think the guys that marketed HD-DVD should have to clean it all up.
They did a terrible job.

Geoff (I believe that's his name) is a Universal guy. So movie title wise, they should do something. But player wise, Toshiba may be in a better position to handle this sort of things.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

So what happens when those people start to get 100 HD channels and get use to the "look" of a HD broadcast?

Doesn't Direct TV already have close to 100?

You're missing the forest for the trees here. As it stands, a lot of consumers need their HDTV set up from jump street in order to really appreciate it. A lot of places include this sort of thing, and that's certainly making in roads, but I've seen posts on this very forum of people who's job it is to do exactly that and are frequently met with disinterest from your average consumer.

I'm just talking about what I've seen with my own eyes. People seem to be talking to me as if I'm not going to adopt Blu-Ray as soon as I'm financially able.

 

[Haunted]

Sorry if it's already been answered in this huge thread somewhere, but do we have numbers about the current market share between DVD vs Blu-Ray vs HD-DVD?

 

[gofreak]

There may be too much passion/emotion poured into the HD DVD program. The Toshiba exec should be sidelined for this program (move to other programs to cool down) while his peers come in to clean up... unless he volunteers himself.

There is much to fear against a Blu-ray Toshiba (SPUREngine, drive and such).

I'd love to see a Toshiba BD machine, personally. Might give me a reason to buy another in time

I'm glad the BDA is thinking of this, but I hope they're considering as much about how to give Toshiba a way out of this as HD-DVD consumers. I think they're complementary goals. Toshiba is possibly in a mood to talk now, so I hope they have the channels open.

 

[avaya]

Sorry if it's already been answered in this huge thread somewhere, but do we have numbers about the current market share between DVD vs Blu-Ray vs HD-DVD?

You would need a microscope.

 

[gofreak]

Sorry if it's already been answered in this huge thread somewhere, but do we have numbers about the current market share between DVD vs Blu-Ray vs HD-DVD?

I think I read a report, saying that for 2007 it was something like 4% for HD (BD+HDDVD) vs DVD. Retailers want more, obviously, and the war hasn't been helping.

 

[Beer Monkey]

Considering that Sony eventually was forced to make VHS machines, it isn't a stretch to look for a Toshiba BD machine in the next couple of years or so.

 

[InterMoniker]

Why are you still asking me? I'M buying a Blu-Ray player! I'm talking about the majority of the home video market, not you or I.

Awesome.

 

[Haunted]

You would need a microscope.

heh.

I think I read a report, saying that for 2007 it was something like 4% for HD (BD+HDDVD) vs DVD. Retailers want more, obviously, and the war hasn't been helping.

Ah, thanks. So it'll take a couple more years for the HD formats to take over, I guess. Maybe we'll see an acceleration of the process now that a winner seems to be in sight.

 

[patsu]

I'd love to see a Toshiba BD machine, personally. Might give me a reason to buy another in time

I'm glad the BDA is thinking of this, but I hope they're considering as much about how to give Toshiba a way out of this as HD-DVD consumers. I think they're complementary goals. Toshiba is possibly in a mood to talk now, so I hope they have the channels open.

Yes, I am a Toshiba fan (except for the HD war). My current TV, Windows laptops, players are all Toshibas. I only have a Sony Playstation and may be my next TV will be a Sony (or Pioneer).

EDIT: Oops forgot about the cheap Sony HT setup in my office -- just for the Playstation.

 

[B-Ri]

my amazon order shipped! YAYYY.

I still love this ad, and these series of ads would have helped the ps3 more then crying baby

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzL2sBagCn8

 

[theBishop]

I'd love to see a Toshiba BD machine, personally. Might give me a reason to buy another in time

I'm glad the BDA is thinking of this, but I hope they're considering as much about how to give Toshiba a way out of this as HD-DVD consumers. I think they're complementary goals. Toshiba is possibly in a mood to talk now, so I hope they have the channels open.

The obvious concession would be to include some parts of HD-DVD into Blu-Ray, and I just don't see it happening. There's definitely some strategy in choosing Java over HDi, favoring H.264 over VC-1, and I don't think Sony will want to go back on any of that now that they are in a position to dictate the terms.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Well how successfull BR turns out to be doesn't really mater to the Gaming Forum and that didn't made this thread placement pointless.

However i do think it's a valide argument that a combination of DVD healthy sales and DD in the horizon, BR might not turn out as successfull as the DVD has. So it's not that pointless.

DD really isn't on the horizon, at least not in the sense of having something to do with BR. Downloading multiple several hundred meg files (if we're talking about SD) or several gig (HD) isn't nearly as appealing as downloading a 5 meg music file which people keep comparing this to.

 

[TheTruth523]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzL2sBagCn8

great fucking ad.

too bad it didn't get any airtime, or atleast I didn't see it on TV, probably cause its 1:30 long.

 

[Dante]

Jesus, watched Pan's Labyrinth last night, and I think It's my second fav Blu Ray behind Lost season 3. Picture quality is jaw dropping. and the sound my god is it crisp, you could hear every little hair being cut as the captain was shaving....Now that's rich

 

[ghibli99]

DD really isn't on the horizon, at least not in the sense of having something to do with BR. Downloading multiple several hundred meg files (if we're talking about SD) or several gig (HD) isn't nearly as appealing as downloading a 5 meg music file which people keep comparing this too.

Yeah, it's apples to oranges. When I had 9Mbit cable, I didn't mind the waits so much (even though video still took a while), but now that I've been downgraded total to only 3Mbit DSL at my new place, waiting 3x as long annoys me enough to where it puts me out of the mood to watch (or play) whatever it was I was downloading on my 360, PC, etc. I'd rather buy the physical product and have it delivered a few days later. At least then it gives me a tangible package to open, play, put on my shelf, trade, sell later if need be, etc.

 

[andycapps]

Why are you still asking me? I'M buying a Blu-Ray player! I'm talking about the majority of the home video market, not you or I.

You're getting a PS3?

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Jesus, watched Pan's Labyrinth last night, and I think It's my second fav Blu Ray behind Lost season 3. Picture quality is jaw dropping. and the sound my god is it crisp, you could hear every little hair being cut as the captain was shaving....Now that's rich

So Lost is your #1?

*drools*

 

[Dante]

Oh and as I asked in the other CES thread what good is offering up a TV series like Lost on the marketplace for DD? The Blu Ray version of season 3 is 5 discs of actual episodes....How much hard drive space is something like that gonna take? The not owning the physical media isn't the dd aspect I'm not grabbing, it's download time and space concerns. I know Sony is eventually gonna offer up music and movies via home, but how long will 60 gigs last with HD content, when I more than likely will need that space just for PSN games.

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

Apocalypto is a pretty good BR showcase movie. Something out of the ordinary, too.

 

[M3Freak]

I doubt they'd think that, honestly. No one's that blind or stupid. Most people think, however, that a stretched 480 picture is "good enough". That's all.

I'd like to meet these people, but they sound nuts, so I'm scared.

 

[Byakuya769]

DD really isn't on the horizon, at least not in the sense of having something to do with BR. Downloading multiple several hundred meg files (if we're talking about SD) or several gig (HD) isn't nearly as appealing as downloading a 5 meg music file which people keep comparing this too.

EXACTLY. Also owning a movie is not the same as owning particular songs from certain artist. The beauty of downloadable music is that you can buy piecewise, and are not stuck with albums that are often filled with fillers. Whereas, buying movies piecewise.. obviously isn't an option

 

[Dragon]

People just don't know enough about the technology to appreciate it. I can't tell you how many friends I've helped in terms of their HD setup. A bunch of them had their cable boxes set up with composite and component and were on the composite setting. I'm like you thought this was HD? Horrendous.

 

[Dante]

So Lost is your #1?

*drools*

The picture and sound is pretty much flawless. Disney has been doing an AMAZING job.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

The picture and sound is pretty much flawless. Disney has been doing an AMAZING job.

Awesome. That's my Day 1. My Boogie Nights, as it were.

 

[spwolf]

They'll continue watching SD TV for those reasons, yes. They may notice a difference but they really won't care. For the reasons mentioned, and even more importantly, because they don't want push different numbers in to the remote to watch their channels. And don't forget a lot of people will be unable to because they're connected to their HDTV via a composite cable.

And I'm saying this from real-life experiences (though I personally hooked up the TVs with proper cables, people have no desire to change their habits and watch HD content over SD). The vast majority people I know could care less about HD when it comes to watching it, they just care about owning a big TV.

Well, my personal experience is completely opposite.

Everyone who saw Football on 50" Plasma did NOT for one second confuse it for SD. In fact, when I showed them SD version of the same game, they all "wow"ed how big difference is.

There is an habit of watching SD content over HD?

I can understand people not having their TV's connected properly. But you are telling me that even if they had them connected, they wouldnt care about watching HD?

Thats just nonsense - sorry. SD on big TV's looks like crap. Watch an football game on big tv in SD and difference is just huge between SD and HD.

 

[WrikaWrek]

Well, my personal experience is completely opposite.

Everyone who saw Football on 50" Plasma did NOT for one second confuse it for SD. In fact, when I showed them SD version of the same game, they all "wow"ed how big difference is.

There is an habit of watching SD content over HD?

I can understand people not having their TV's connected properly. But you are telling me that even if they had them connected, they wouldnt care about watching HD?

Thats just nonsense - sorry. SD on big TV's looks like crap. Watch an football game on big tv in SD and difference is just huge between SD and HD.

Yeah, 50' tv's. That's the future, i can already see it.

 

[Dragon]

Well, my personal experience is completely opposite.

Everyone who saw Football on 50" Plasma did NOT for one second confuse it for SD. In fact, when I showed them SD version of the same game, they all "wow"ed how big difference is.

There is an habit of watching SD content over HD?

I can understand people not having their TV's connected properly. But you are telling me that even if they had them connected, they wouldnt care about watching HD?

Thats just nonsense - sorry. SD on big TV's looks like crap. Watch an football game on big tv in SD and difference is just huge between SD and HD.

Good thing I get every NFL game in HD. And College are still digital signals which look far better than analog horror.

 

[Raistlin]

Sorry if it's already been answered in this huge thread somewhere, but do we have numbers about the current market share between DVD vs Blu-Ray vs HD-DVD?

For SW:
About 2:1 in the US
3+:1 in Europe
And like 10:1 in Japan

For Standalones
About 1:1 in the US
Not sure about other regions


When you include PS3 though, HW is obviously in BD's favor.

 

[Kittonwy]

Why are you still asking me? I'M buying a Blu-Ray player! I'm talking about the majority of the home video market, not you or I.

Why not buy a PS3? It's a quality Blu-Ray player AND you can play Uncharted which is a great game.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Why not buy a PS3? It's a quality Blu-Ray player AND you can play Uncharted which is a great game.

I don't even have $200 right now, much less $400. I'm wagering I'll get to $200 before $400.

 

[belvedere]

Why not buy a PS3? It's a quality Blu-Ray player AND you can play Uncharted which is a great game.

Now this is a a good question.

 

[kaching]

You're missing the forest for the trees here. As it stands, a lot of consumers need their HDTV set up from jump street in order to really appreciate it. A lot of places include this sort of thing, and that's certainly making in roads, but I've seen posts on this very forum of people who's job it is to do exactly that and are frequently met with disinterest from your average consumer.

You're mostly arguing for status quo, not really revealing the forest to anyone here.

How many DVD owners are really taking full advantage of what DVD Spec offers? Full, widescreen 480p visual? 5.1 surround sound? Regularly watching at least some of the extras on the disc? Even using scene selection on a regular basis? I doubt to this day it would be the majority, yet the majority upgraded to DVD nonetheless.

Why? Because the majority didn't really demand a format change, they just went along with it. The format change was set in motion by the manufacturers and studios who then found enough of an early adopter audience willing to invest sufficient cash in the platform to justify continuing development until a critical mass was reached such that they were able to provide similar infrastructure as the incumbent platform, with additional perks and only for a little extra cost. At that point, it became a matter of "why not?" for more and more people, despite whether they would ever actually make significant use of the benefits of the new platform.

Additionally, as I've said more than once before (yet unsurprisingly it seems to get ignored each time), one hurdle in this transition is conspicuously lower or completely missing as compared to previous transitions: the matter of backward compatability. Expect manufacturers to phase out their line of "DVD-only" players over the next few years as an HD disc player *IS* a DVD player, for all intents and purposes. The "why not" purchase will be here soon enough, just like with DVD.

 

[Raistlin]

The obvious concession would be to include some parts of HD-DVD into Blu-Ray, and I just don't see it happening. There's definitely some strategy in choosing Java over HDi, favoring H.264 over VC-1, and I don't think Sony will want to go back on any of that now that they are in a position to dictate the terms.

Toshiba backed themselves into a corner.


Unlike DVD, where Sony/Phillips conceeded before launch, and therefore a tech-merged compromise was created as part of the concession ... Toshiba is basically ass-out. The formats' HW spec is finalized, nothing can be done now.

Regardless, the things you mention aren't even Toshiba IPs (HDi is MS, as is VC-1 ... not to mention VC-1 is already part of the BD spec).

 

[Ceb]

nm

 

[Woo-Fu]

Why not buy a PS3? It's a quality Blu-Ray player AND you can play Uncharted which is a great game.

Because he has an expensive Harmony remote that works with IR, not bluetooth.

 

[andycapps]

The picture and sound is pretty much flawless. Disney has been doing an AMAZING job.

Never got into Lost. Watched it for a few of the first episodes last year and still had no idea why they were on the island, why I should care, what they were doing with the computer, etc. Long and short of it was that it was taking too long for it to get going.

Heroes is what I'm waiting on, and I hope that Universal defects soon so I can get my fix. :lol

 

[belvedere]

Because he has an expensive Harmony remote that works with IR, not bluetooth.

There's a work-around.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Now this is a a good question.

Which I answered.

Not that it's any of your concern but I'm fully aware of the benefits of the PS3 and the awesomeness of Wipeout, which I have made clear a thousand times over. You can try and paint me however you like, but you won't ever change my outlook. If I could afford it, of course I would own a PS3.

Once you start to cross a line into painting someone's feduciary standing as some kind systemist grudge, you've ventured into a really transparent territory.

 

[belvedere]

Which I answered.

Not that it's any of your concern but I'm fully aware of the benefits of the PS3 and the awesomeness of Wipeout, which I have made clear a thousand times over. You can try and paint me however you like, but you won't ever change my outlook. If I could afford it, of course I would own a PS3.

Once you start to cross a line into painting someone's feduciary standing as some kind systemist grudge, you've ventured into a really transparent territory.

I'm not sure how you interpreted my question in the way that you did, but somehow you've taken it and twisted it into some sort of fantard sarcasm, which it wasn't.

Good job.

 

[Woo-Fu]

There's a work-around.

Some people buy work-arounds, some people buy stuff that just works.

 

[belvedere]

Some people buy work-arounds, some people buy stuff that just works.

It does work.

Thanks for your attempted contribution though.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

I'm not sure how you interpreted my question in the way that you did, but somehow you've taken it and twisted it into some sort of fantard sarcasm, which it wasn't.

Good job.

"Now this is a good question."

I answered it before you even posted that. How else was I supposed to take that?

 

[Kittonwy]

Because he has an expensive Harmony remote that works with IR, not bluetooth.

Chuck that remote through a window, problem solved.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Chuck that remote through a window, problem solved.

Heh. I actually don't have that remote for the record.

 

[Kittonwy]

Some people buy work-arounds, some people buy stuff that just works.

He should buy a PS3 then!!!

 

[Woo-Fu]

It does work.

Thanks for your attempted contribution though.

A PS3 out of the box can be controlled with a Harmony IR remote without buying anything else? Without using anything else?

It doesn't "Just Work".

I have a ps3, btw.

This argument means very little to a gamer, but it does mean something when you're trying to talk somebody into a PS3 when all they want is BD playback.