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Breaking Bad - Season 4 - Sundays on AMC

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overcast

Member
Walt definitely loves Jr. and Skylar. I also do think he genuinely cares for Jesse. I still haven't come to a conclusion on whether he is an absolutely villainous person yet.

He has definitely done plenty of despicable things though, which is why he is evil in many ways. I think he has some good in him.. The pride erases a lot of it though.
 
Villians don't need to be cartoonishly evil. He can love his family, feel remorse, care for Jesse and still be a bad person. Why? Because he does objectively bad things that hurt people, including those he loves.

Fucking hollywood making us believe all bad people are 100% evil all the time. damn you!

he's not absolutely villainous, but he IS no doubt a villain.

Said better than I. Perfect.
 
Puddles said:
He's an anti-hero at worst.

Like I said, denial. Full blown. You'll feel foolish about this come near the end of the series.


IMO, Gilligan was directly telling us Walt's Bad when Jesse last season said he's bad and accepted it. That was Gilligan telling the audience "Hey everyone, Walt is fucking bad. Time to accept it." But Walt, of course, did not accept Jesse was bad. Much like you, puddles.

it's also telling you ignore the fact presented

There is also nothing heroic in any way about Walt.
 

SamVimes

Member
Black Mamba said:
there's no disagreement from me that terminal cancer was the causi belli for him, but i don't buy it's the "why." He had an out early on and declined. Since that moment in season 1, the cancer has been irrelevant to his reasoning.
I think the cancer just led him to the "cook way", once he was in he found out that he never felt this way in the whole of his life, so in control. So he stayed for that, and he keep telling himself a good guy while doing increasingly stupid things just out of pride.
It's no more about the cancer. Hell, it's no more about the money either.
 

Zeliard

Member
Walt is morphing into the antagonist of the story. That's his arc - protagonist -----> antagonist. If they pull it off, which they are so far, it will be fucking brilliant.

SamVimes said:
I think the cancer just led him to the "cook way", once he was in he found out that he never felt this way in the whole of his life, so in control. So he stayed for that, and he keep telling himself a good guy while doing increasingly stupid things just out of pride.
It's no more about the cancer. Hell, it's no more about the money either.

It was never about the money. That was just Walt's excuse to himself. As the great philosopher Alfred once said, some men just want to see the world burn.
 
Zeliard said:
Walt is morphing into the antagonist of the story. That's his arc - protagonist -----> antagonist. If they pull it off, which they are so far, it will be fucking brilliant.

No doubt and it will be brilliant (and has been to this point). My big question is, what's Jesse total arc? I have a feeling we know where Walt is going, but Jesse is still up in the air to me.

I think the legacy of this show will rise or fall depending on how Jesse's story ends.
 

Puddles

Banned
Black Mamba said:
Like I said, denial. Full blown. You'll feel foolish about this come near the end of the series.


IMO, Gilligan was directly telling us Walt's Bad when Jesse last season said he's bad and accepted it. That was Gilligan telling the audience "Hey everyone, Walt is fucking bad. Time to accept it." But Walt, of course, did not accept Jesse was bad. Much like you, puddles.

it's also telling you ignore the fact presented

There is also nothing heroic in any way about Walt.

I don't ignore anything. I've refuted just about every argument that can be made on this subject. I suppose I could quote myself, but that's no fun. So yes, I suppose it seems like I'm "ignoring" an argument if I don't respond to its 10th incarnation, but I'm really not.

Neither Jesse nor Walt are truly bad. They're both good people at heart. You'll feel foolish about this come near the end of the series. They might both die, but it will be as tragic anti-heroes, not as villains.


Zeliard said:
Walt is morphing into the antagonist of the story. That's his arc - protagonist -----> antagonist.

It'll probably be more like protagonist ------> morally gray character that over-zealous internet people hate -------> protagonist who suffers a tragic downfall.
 
Puddles said:
I don't ignore anything. I've refuted just about every argument that can be made on this subject. I suppose I could quote myself, but that's no fun. So yes, I suppose it seems like I'm "ignoring" an argument if I don't respond to its 10th incarnation, but I'm really not.

When have you refuted the argument that Walt stole from a business to sell illegal drugs? When was that displayed in a good light?

Neither Jesse nor Walt are truly bad. They're both good people at heart. You'll feel foolish about this come near the end of the series. They might both die, but it will be as tragic anti-heroes, not as villains.

What is truly bad? As I said earlier, Walt is still human, which means he still feels love, remorse, and the like. That doesn't make him not bad.

If "truly bad," are only sociopathic maniacs and nothing more, then of course he's not that. But there is no doubt that he does bad things. Lots of them. Enough so that a rational person would consider him bad.

Per your train of logic, we could claim no human has ever been truly bad, I'm sure. Either everyone has a justifiable reason to do whatever it is they're doing or they're clinically insane so it's not their fault.

Which is why you're in denial.

It'll probably be more like protagonist ------> morally gray character that over-zealous internet people hate -------> protagonist who suffers a tragic downfall.

Robbery and murder are now morally gray areas. lol dude.
 

overcast

Member
Black Mamba said:
Villians don't need to be cartoonishly evil. He can love his family, feel remorse, care for Jesse and still be a bad person. Why? Because he does objectively bad things that hurt people, including those he loves.

Fucking hollywood making us believe all bad people are 100% evil all the time. damn you!
Definitely. Part of the reason I love the show is almost everybody is a bit "bad" (Walt is worse than most). The wonderfully blur the line between protagonist and antagonist.
 

Puddles

Banned
Black Mamba said:
When have you refuted the argument that Walt stole from a business to sell illegal drugs? When was that displayed in a good light?

Nit-picking.



What is truly bad? As I said earlier, Walt is still human, which means he still feels love, remorse, and the like. That doesn't make him not bad.

If "truly bad," are only sociopathic maniacs and nothing more, then of course he's not that. But there is no doubt that he does bad things. Lots of them. Enough so that a rational person would consider him bad.

Per your train of logic, we could claim no human has ever been truly bad, I'm sure. Either everyone has a justifiable reason to do whatever it is they're doing or they're clinically insane so it's not their fault.

Which is why you're in denial.

Plenty of people are truly bad. Gus is truly bad. So were Tuco, the dealers who killed that kid, Krazy 8, and plenty of others.


Robbery and murder are now morally gray areas. lol dude.

Robbery isn't a deal-breaker, and we've established in this thread that none of Walt or Jesse's kills were unjustified.
 

maharg

idspispopd
Puddles said:
You guys are trying to shoehorn this show into your neat little black/white dichotomies, and I'm the one going through the Five Stages?

Again, I don't believe in dichotomies. I believe in grey areas. Walt is so far into the grey at this point, however, that it may as well be black. You have to bend so far backwards to justify the shit he puts everyone he supposedly loves through you're standing on your head.


Puddles said:
Robbery isn't a deal-breaker, and we've established in this thread that none of Walt or Jesse's kills were unjustified.

Who's 'we'? Has *anyone* genuinely agreed with you that not one of Walt or Jesse's murders were 'unjustified'? Things don't become consensus just because you say so.
 
Puddles said:
Nit-picking.

lol, completely ignoring.


Plenty of people are truly bad. Gus is truly bad. So were Tuco, the dealers who killed that kid, Krazy 8, and plenty of others.

Really? Gus is truly bad? How much money does he give out to charities? Remember in the hospital he even fed all the officers? He's also super nice to his workers in the chicken place, from what we've seen. Maybe even a great family man (to his mom or something).

And we don't even know if he wanted the kid dead. To this point, we have not seen Gus do a single thing worse than Walt. He killed victor because he jeopardized everything by being spotted. He's killed the cartel members who've attacked him. He even saved Hank's life with the phone call.

Now, while Gus is a bad person, from what we've seen you could make the case he's more upstanding than Walt.


Robbery isn't a deal-breaker, and we've established in this thread that none of Walt or Jesse's kills were unjustified.

Robbery because you're dirt poor and starving and wantt to eat isn't a deal-breaker. Stealing chemicals from a chemical manufacturer and then equipment out of the school that employs you in order to sell crystal methamphetamine is a big mother fucking deal-breaker and to think otherwise is absurd.

And killing Gale was not justified and it was never established. He could have gone into witness protection or gone on the run, himself, or sent Gale off to a far away land by force. There were legit options on the table. Murder is always and in every case the worst option and only to be taken when there are no other legitimate options.

Gales murder was unnecessary, unjustified, and objectively wrong.
 

Amir0x

Banned
you have to give it to Puddles, though:

Puddles said:
Anyway, glad to know there are still a lot of sane, rational people who love the fuck out of Walter White and want to see him succeed in all of his endeavors.

It's clear he actually believes he's on the "sane, rational" side of the argument. I sorta think that's what makes this so fascinating.
 

Ænima

Member
Black Mamba said:
Stealing chemicals from a chemical manufacturer and then equipment out of the school that employs you in order to sell crystal methamphetamine is a big mother fucking deal-breaker and to think otherwise is absurd.
That reminded me of that nice Janitor dude that got arrested and lost his job due to the investigation of the school robbery. That guy doesn't get mentioned enough when talking about people Walt has screwed over. Poor Hugo.

http://breakingbad.wikia.com/wiki/Hugo_Archilleya
 

xbhaskarx

Member
Ænima said:
That reminded me of that nice Janitor dude that got arrested and lost his job due to the investigation of the school robbery. That guy doesn't get mentioned enough when talking about people Walt has screwed over. Poor Hugo.

http://breakingbad.wikia.com/wiki/Hugo_Archilleya

Hey that guy might be out of a job but at least he's alive, sometimes people don't even mention Combo (Walt demanding that Jesse expand their territory) or the meth house family (Walt gave Jesse a gun and told him to deal with it)...
 
Ænima said:
That reminded me of that nice Janitor dude that got arrested and lost his job due to the investigation of the school robbery. That guy doesn't get mentioned enough when talking about people Walt has screwed over. Poor Hugo.

http://breakingbad.wikia.com/wiki/Hugo_Archilleya

Holy shit, I just noticed something:

H U G O A R C H I L L E Y A

Rearrange these letters, what do you get?!

M A D R I G A L E L E C T R O M O T I V E

Hugo owns Madrigal, and is in fact the guy pulling the strings all along. I knew it!
 

big ander

Member
Amir0x said:
you have to give it to Puddles, though:



It's clear he actually believes he's on the "sane, rational" side of the argument. I sorta think that's what makes this so fascinating.
Exactly. There's some invisible majority here that agrees with him.
 
Puddles said:
I don't ignore anything. I've refuted just about every argument that can be made on this subject. I suppose I could quote myself, but that's no fun. So yes, I suppose it seems like I'm "ignoring" an argument if I don't respond to its 10th incarnation, but I'm really not.

Neither Jesse nor Walt are truly bad. They're both good people at heart. You'll feel foolish about this come near the end of the series. They might both die, but it will be as tragic anti-heroes, not as villains.




It'll probably be more like protagonist ------> morally gray character that over-zealous internet people hate -------> protagonist who suffers a tragic downfall.

It seems the creator of the show disagrees with you.

Vince Gilligan interview said:
SPhD: One of the things I love most about Breaking Bad is that chemistry acts like an integral character, one that plays a very important role in Walt’s identity, the cooking and production of the meth, and in some cases, their very survival in some pretty hairy situations (as in the case of the fulminated mercury and homemade battery). Was it always the plan to have it be such a big part of the show or is that something that evolved?

VG: I did always like the idea that this would be a cable TV version of MacGyver. That was not first and foremost when I was coming up with the idea. First and foremost to me, the show is a character study about a man who is undergoing a radical transformation. He’s transforming himself from a protagonist to an antagonist.

http://www.scriptphd.com/chemistry/2010/04/13/interview-breaking-bad-creatorexecutive-producer-vince-gilligan/
 
killing gus was necessary, otherwise walt would be dead. No way he could just go into witness protection, i severly doubt that the dea would offer a man who indirectly caused one of their agents to get shot such an amazing deal.
 

big ander

Member
YoungHav said:
LOL @ Jane, good for her.

If it's immoral to make meth, then it's immoral to make alcohol.
Flat-out incorrect. Meth is indisputably more dangerous and is not regulated.
e: if it were regulated I would almost agree, because even though he'd still be making meth he'd be making it in a safe, non-criminal environment where consumers knew what they were getting into, and then we could also assume that there would be plenty less violence involved in the creation and distribution, but none of that is true.
 

maharg

idspispopd
Mr. Saturn said:

To be fair, what the creator thinks of their own art isn't always relevant to what the art actually says or means. Often the creator is unaware of the real meaning of their own expression, and the consumer of the art obviously plays a big part in its interpretation as well. It's kind of lazy analysis to go to the creative vision to support a thematic argument.
 
maharg said:
To be fair, what the creator thinks of their own art isn't always relevant to what the art actually says or means. Often the creator is unaware of the real meaning of their own expression, and the consumer of the art obviously plays a big part in its interpretation as well. It's kind of lazy analysis to go to the creative vision to support a thematic argument.

Yeah that's true. Guess I might have jumped the gun, but you're right that was a bit lazy for me to do. Especially since there can be many interpretations of any show, that aren't wrong or that they don't necessarily align with the creator's vision
 
maharg said:
To be fair, what the creator thinks of their own art isn't always relevant to what the art actually says or means. Often the creator is unaware of the real meaning of their own expression, and the consumer of the art obviously plays a big part in its interpretation as well. It's kind of lazy analysis to go to the creative vision to support a thematic argument.

Yep, Gilligan even admits to that in the same interview:

Vince Gilligan said:
I myself and my writers are not the best people to ask for a complete bigger picture explanation of what in fact is going on.

Also...

Vince Gilligan said:
my intention was to kill Jesse off at the end of Season 1

That is new to me.
 
And here we go, for those of you that don't understand how some people can still support and like Walt, I think Gilligan tries to answer that as clearly as possible:

SPhD: They’re all beautiful relationships and I can’t wait to see where they all go. I love that you’ve even made me hate Skylar [Walt's long-suffering wife], which I never thought I would do. I’m so sorry for that!
VG: It’s so funny, and I’m glad you brought that up, because you are definitely not even close to being the first person to say that. It’s just a funny thing about storytelling. Even when your hero is not a nice person, and he’s doing bad things, because he’s your protagonist, if you’re along for the ride, then you start to see the world through his eyes. It’s the nature of storytelling. It’s the same thing when you’re watching The Sopranos or some other show where there’s someone who is pretty much a reprehensible character is nonetheless your protagonist. You’ll root for that person to succeed. And right now, Skylar gets in the way, on a purely mechanical level, of Walt’s success and happiness and therefore we see her as an obstacle and we don’t like her for what she’s doing. So you’re not alone in feeling that way. But the funny thing is, I see Skylar as the good guy and Walt as the bad guy. I love Walt! He’s a great guy to write for, but he’s kind of a monster when you think about it. He shouldn’t be breaking back into the house, trying to get back into her good graces when the things he’s done and the lies he’s told really make him not the good guy. She’s being heroic when she doesn’t tell the police on him.
 
OK, I'm reading these comments and wow ... people are being VERY Black&White here.
To me White is just a very flawed character trying to do what he thinks is best in an extremely dangerous world.

First off I think its silly to say someone is bad for making meth. Thats like blaming the McCooks for making people fat or blaming alcohol makers for every alcoholic/ drunk driving death.

Every death White has caused or was involved in was to protect himself or his family.

First there were the dealers. Once his plan only half-way worked he had to take care of the other one. He learned first hand that these kind of people will try to trick you and that they are not to be trusted because if he had let him go White would be dead and his family would be murdered out of revenge.

Then there was Jane right? From what lil White knew about her he could see that she was poison for Jesse. In a VERY short time she turned him into a heroin addict. She was a manipulative, poisonous, gold digging threat that was leading Jesse down a bad path. Hell, the second she heard how much Jesse was owed she popped those money-sign eyes like a fucking cartoon character. Jesse wasn't "seeing straight", she had taken control and made a threat against White ... she done goofed when she decided they take that "one last big hit". Its clear what would have happened had those 2 been allowed to go on living with each other ... she would have used Jesse up like a scrubby sponge and bounced as soon as the money was gone. Or they would have simply fallen into drug use again and used up the money on heroin ... and they would have died in the process.
White didn't kill her but he DID allow her to die because that was what would be best for Jesse. Its clear that she would OD at some point anyway so by not stepping in he just allowed their relationship to end before it caused anymore harm to Jesse.

Those other dealers deserved death. He also did that to save Jesse from himself. He would have been gunned down by those 2 but he wasn't going to back down.

Gale was for self-preservation. He was placed in a "me or him" situation by Gus. Whites not dumb, he knows it must be rare for someone as talented and as passionate as him and Gale to use their skills to make meth and Gus likely wouldn't be able to find someone skilled enough to make 99+% pure "blue" on short notice.
If your life depends on being the only one who can do something for a very powerful person then its likely you're gonna do anything in your power to keep that skill to yourself.



NOW, WITH THAT BEING SAID I love how Walt is responsible for all the shit he is involved in because of his ego/ pride. Even from before the series starts, in flashbacks and convos we see why this great man is teaching HS and working at a car wash. He helped start the massive success company "Grays Tech" ... but because of his ego and pride he felt his talents weren't being appreciated and turned his back on them. He told them to fuck off and ended up wasting his overwhelming talent by teaching high-school kids well they went on to make tons of money and gain tons of success/ recognition for his work.

He sees cancer as a huge timer thats gonna mark the end to his life so he wants to make some fast, easy cash as a nest egg. Thats why he goes into making meth in the first place. He is then offered a HUGE "get out of jail free" card by Black ... but his pride and ego wont allow him fucking take the job or the help.

Its like that for a bit ... he thinks he is gonna die soon anyway so he allows this darkness to take over until he gets the cancer out of him and now its like "Fuck ... how am I gonna get out of this now?". He fucked up and got himself into a no-way-out deal with Gus which is why he wants to kill him ... so that they can stop and he can just live with the massive amount of cash he has now. I'm sure he doesn't want to keep going down this road.

Everything he does is for his family in HIS mind. Thats not whats BEST for them though. His self centered actions and massive pride/ ego makes it so that he can't ALLOW himself to do whats best for his family. He should have just snapped out of his mid-life BS and took the job & hand out from the rich friend. He would have had an interesting story to tell on his death bed to his grand children/ children about how for a short time he made meth and had to kill two drug dealers ...

THATS the great thing about his character! He allows his feelings to warp his view of the things he does for those he cares about when in the end its ALWAYS about him. His relationship with Jesse is a great example ... he will manipulate and try to control Jesse out of his own interest or the interest of them both but he still clearly considers him family.
 

YoungHav

Banned
big ander said:
Flat-out incorrect. Meth is indisputably more dangerous and is not regulated.
e: if it were regulated I would almost agree, because even though he'd still be making meth he'd be making it in a safe, non-criminal environment where consumers knew what they were getting into, and then we could also assume that there would be plenty less violence involved in the creation and distribution, but none of that is true.
Is it immoral to make rat poison or be a manufacturer of lethal injection fluid? Legal/illegal, there's nothing morally with making a drug IMO. He isn't forcing anyone to use meth or slanging to children. The users know what's up and choose to throw their lives away. I can go eat Big Macs and chain smoke until I die, not McDonald's, Marlboro, or Reggie's problem.
 
I don't think anyone is arguing that we don't like Walt. You can like someone that is bad, but you accept that he is bad.

That was kind of the point of the Sopranos. It was a show where eventually you realize you are rooting for the bad guy, but you do fully understand that you are rooting for a ruthless killer.

Walt can be a badass when he plays Heisenberg and takes control. Or when he defies Skyler ala the car scene this week. People like that, myself included, because it's relatable. Hell, I like Gus too as a character and he's bad.


The reason I've stop liking Walt isn't as much as how bad he's broken, but rather how dumb, naive, and panicky he's become. He's still trying to kill Gus when Gus is probably the only one keeping him alive, and possibly family too. Walt also had the Heisenberg thing wrapped up and his own pride is what caused Hank to reopen the case on him (Walt's speech about Gale being a sidekick). This is why I think a lot of people have turned on Walt moreso than the bad things he's done. And he's so fucking jealous.
 
tycoonheart said:
And here we go, for those of you that don't understand how some people can still support and like Walt, I think Gilligan tries to answer that as clearly as possible:
THERE we go. Vince Gilligan gets what I was saying earlier. Thus I will continue to, and always root for Walt to succeed.
 
Puddles is absolutely correct. You guys need to stop being so open ended and be more realistic.

Walt and Jesse are good people in a messy business for a noble purpose. Things have to be done if there is interference. And given you are in this world, you have to adhere to what will keep you and your interests secure. You'd be a dick to be a sweet heart angel. It's not their intention to kill.


blame space said:
jesus christ
john-turturro-as-jesus-quintana1.jpg
 
Black Mamba said:
I don't think anyone is arguing that we don't like Walt. You can like someone that is bad, but you accept that he is bad.

Umm... there have been several posters who have accused other posters of being morally reprehensible for rooting/liking a 'detestable' guy like Walter White.
 

BlueTsunami

there is joy in sucking dick
This thread is bonkers

Meth is equated to McDonalds food

Jesse is being defended even though he's sold directly to recovering addicts

Walt is being defended even though he let Jesse's girl die and all he needed to do was turn her over. If I heard correctly he even used her as a way to get at Jesse in this episode.

Everything is morally grey unless you've fucked Ted.
 

bud

Member
whatever the case may be, walt never fucked ted, jesse never fucked ted, GUS never fucked ted and i'm sure no one at madrigal electromotive ever fucked ted; skyler, however, did. the bitch. WALT, FEED HER SOME RICIN BEANS, YO.
 
Dude Jane was a bitchhhhh though. So is Ted. Fuck Ted. I hope they get married. I hope he goes and fucks her dead corpse. And then he himself dies because he'll get some zombie syphilis. And then the world will be happy. Walt's tumor will dissolve and there will finally be world peace.
 
Random aside, did anyone else catch the story about Dartmouth chemistry student busted for running meth lab out of his apartment?
NY Daily News said:
Dartmouth chemistry student busted for running meth lab out of apartment

A Belgian graduate student at Dartmouth College had a double major - he was taking classes in chemistry and running a meth lab out of his apartment, police said.

Randy Lambreghts, 28, was busted Sunday after cops responded to a medical emergency at his Hanover, N.H. pad and found evidence the Belgian brainiac was cooking crank, police said.

Lambreghts' roommate called authorities because he feared for the Belgian's mental and physical health, Hanover Police Chief Nicholas Giaccone Jr. told the Daily News.

Campus cops rolled up to Lambreghts' pad at 3 School St., a building that houses about a dozen grad students and is on the same street as several undergraduate residences.

After spotting evidence that led cops to suspect a mini drug factory was being run out of the apartment, campus cops called the town police, who called in firefighters and the federal Drug Enforcement Administration, Giaccone said.

Firefighters evacuated the building and handled hazardous materials inside Lambreghts' place. Lambreghts was asked to take a shower at the apartment to decontaminate himself and then taken to a hospital for an evaluation.

After the DEA got a search warrant, a field team searched the pad, collected evidence suspected of being related to making meth, and sent it to a lab; it is still being analyzed, Giaccone said.

Lambreghts was charged Tuesday with one count of attempted manufacture of methamphetamine/amphetamine, Giaccone said. He was being held on $20,000 bail.

Lambreghts lives with two other people, but they are not expected to be charged, Giaccone added.

Lambreghts, who had been studying at the Ivy League school for about seven years, received a bachelor's degree in chemistry and a master's in biochemistry from the University of Ghent, in Belgium, according to a Dartmouth website.

The site said he enjoys travelling and planned "to see all of South America after graduation."

Under New Hampshire law, manufacturing meth is punishable by up to 20 years in prison and a $300,000 fine, the New Hampshire Union Leader newspaper reported.

kVINc.jpg
I'm just disappointed his site didn't say that he wanted to "go to Thailand and sing karaoke."
 

maharg

idspispopd
tycoonheart said:
Umm... there have been several posters who have accused other posters of being morally reprehensible for rooting/liking a 'detestable' guy like Walter White.

Can you please point out where someone called another poster "morally reprehensible" for rooting for Walt?
 
BlueTsunami said:
This thread is bonkers

Meth is equated to McDonalds food

Jesse is being defended even though he's sold directly to recovering addicts

Walt is being defended even though he let Jesse's girl die and all he needed to do was turn her over. If I heard correctly he even used her as a way to get at Jesse in this episode.

Everything is morally grey unless you've fucked Ted.

Apparently the only bad guy is Skylar!
 
bangladesh said:
Walt and Jesse are good people in a messy business for a noble purpose.

Noble purposes? Now this is a delusion I didn't think possible.

What are the noble purposes for both, again?

Umm... there have been several posters who have accused other posters of being morally reprehensible for rooting/liking a 'detestable' guy like Walter White.

I tried to clarify that it's not just that he's bad. I think people would root for him ala Tony or Dexter if he was smarter and less of a selfish prick.

Apparently the only bad guy is Skylar!

Eyebrows dude, too!
 
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