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Breaking Bad - The (Beautiful) Finale - Season 5 Part 2 - Sunday on AMC - OT3
- Thread starter Cornballer
- Start date
Oh, and again I asked yesterday. Not to be confrontational lest my tone gets muddied, but those who don't like the ending or would have ended it another way... how would you have ended it? Is it stupid shit like Nussbaum saying she thought it should have been all a dream and Walt died in the snowy car? Do you just wish Walt hadn't 'won'? What exactly would that have consisted of?
The main focus on the episode being poor in anyone's eyes is a) predictability, b) it was too neat and c) that Walt won.
Predictability is not a bad thing. It's all in the execution. We're at the end of a 62 episode stretch where there can only possibly be a few endings now. Leaving out the flashforwards probably would have helped to be honest, and putting every minute of footage from them in this episode (and of course making it longer). But when the predictable ending is the right ending, when a show so subversive in its unpredictability would be subversive and unpredictable by being predictable, and when its executed so masterfully - from the acting and writing, to the cinematography and the music, to the thematic arcs that spread its way throughout every episode, why would you want it any other way?
For B:
This is a show that has always been neat. It has a gorgeous veneer of chaos, but it has always been neat, everything has been in service of the plot.
It was neat and 'coincidental' that his brother in law would be a DEA agent. That the ride along he went on happened to be one where his former student got away. That his first real kill was on someone whose father he had done business with. That he'd make friends with another science genius whose name was Black. That his baby would be born the very moment he was making the biggest deal of his life. That he'd meet the father of his partner's girlfriend in a bar that very night. That the plane would explode right over his backyard. That the all seeing eye of the teddy bear would land in his pool. That the Cousins, sitting in his room with an axe, would be called off at the last moment. That Hank 's death would be delayed because one of them had to go back and get said axe. That Gus would walk away with super sense as he prepared to get in his car. That the magnet worked because Walt said so.
It is pulp entertainment. Everything that occurred was because of coincidence, because of chance or fate. And almost everything was cleared up because of the clean, clinical nature of the world. A world where there is most certainly a god or a higher power who casts down judgement upon thee, but also a world where there is a god who bends to the will of Science. Science, that decrees that everything that happens happens because of a reaction here, an atom there, a chemical there. And Walt deciding to go on that ride along and neatly, coincidentally seeing a former student who would help awaken primal desires led to Walt neatly, coincidentally tying up every loose end because the internal logic of the show has remained consistent. Walt is smarter than everyone. Walt is luckier than everyone. And Walt is a man of science. A man of chemistry. A man who notes the unpredictability of the elements and attempts to apply logic and understanding to them.
And for C:
One of Breaking Bad's key themes throughout is duality. The list he makes for Krazy 8, let him live or kill him. The contrast between the two sides of the teddy bear's face, and Gus', and Jesse's. Heisenberg and Walt himself. Schwartz and White.
And for every single win that Walt got last night, it was accompanied by a defeat.
* He confronted Gretchen and Schwartz, made himself look like an absolute badass. And they're still the ones sitting on a multi billion dollar fortune.
*He made sure his money is getting to his kids. But they will never say "my dad was a hero who made this money for me".
* He gave Skyler the co-ordinates, giving Marie closure and exonerating his wife. The co-ordinates lead to his dead brother in law's body, a death that he spectacularly failed to stop from occurring.
* He saw his kids again. One of them will never remember who he was, the other hates him for what he did.
* He saved Jesse from the Aryans. Jesse, who finally learnt not to listen to Mr White.
The only victory I see that is anything but real outside Walt's head? Dying in his natural habitat, the place he loved best. Everything else was a justifiable win for Walt, but nothing went a way to redeeming him for his crimes. There was no redemption there, at least not in the grand scheme of things. Only for himself. In the end, Walt felt he was redeemed, and that's what mattered; that this awful, monstrous, horrific man - our lead character no less and the one that, for all the complaints that people want to see Czechoslovakians feeling the effects of the meth and they want to see Marie at Hank's funeral and they want to see 18 year old Holly, the show was always about and should always have been about - lay on the floor bleeding out and still his ego was so big that he died with a smile on his face, because everything went out his way and on his own terms. But his sins? None of them undone. Hank is still dead. His family still hate him. Skyler still has to live with herself after her own crimes. Jesse as well has to avoid police, deal with the deaths he has committed and the deaths that have been committed because of him.
fuck i didnt mean for that to be that long
The main focus on the episode being poor in anyone's eyes is a) predictability, b) it was too neat and c) that Walt won.
Predictability is not a bad thing. It's all in the execution. We're at the end of a 62 episode stretch where there can only possibly be a few endings now. Leaving out the flashforwards probably would have helped to be honest, and putting every minute of footage from them in this episode (and of course making it longer). But when the predictable ending is the right ending, when a show so subversive in its unpredictability would be subversive and unpredictable by being predictable, and when its executed so masterfully - from the acting and writing, to the cinematography and the music, to the thematic arcs that spread its way throughout every episode, why would you want it any other way?
For B:
This is a show that has always been neat. It has a gorgeous veneer of chaos, but it has always been neat, everything has been in service of the plot.
It was neat and 'coincidental' that his brother in law would be a DEA agent. That the ride along he went on happened to be one where his former student got away. That his first real kill was on someone whose father he had done business with. That he'd make friends with another science genius whose name was Black. That his baby would be born the very moment he was making the biggest deal of his life. That he'd meet the father of his partner's girlfriend in a bar that very night. That the plane would explode right over his backyard. That the all seeing eye of the teddy bear would land in his pool. That the Cousins, sitting in his room with an axe, would be called off at the last moment. That Hank 's death would be delayed because one of them had to go back and get said axe. That Gus would walk away with super sense as he prepared to get in his car. That the magnet worked because Walt said so.
It is pulp entertainment. Everything that occurred was because of coincidence, because of chance or fate. And almost everything was cleared up because of the clean, clinical nature of the world. A world where there is most certainly a god or a higher power who casts down judgement upon thee, but also a world where there is a god who bends to the will of Science. Science, that decrees that everything that happens happens because of a reaction here, an atom there, a chemical there. And Walt deciding to go on that ride along and neatly, coincidentally seeing a former student who would help awaken primal desires led to Walt neatly, coincidentally tying up every loose end because the internal logic of the show has remained consistent. Walt is smarter than everyone. Walt is luckier than everyone. And Walt is a man of science. A man of chemistry. A man who notes the unpredictability of the elements and attempts to apply logic and understanding to them.
And for C:
One of Breaking Bad's key themes throughout is duality. The list he makes for Krazy 8, let him live or kill him. The contrast between the two sides of the teddy bear's face, and Gus', and Jesse's. Heisenberg and Walt himself. Schwartz and White.
And for every single win that Walt got last night, it was accompanied by a defeat.
* He confronted Gretchen and Schwartz, made himself look like an absolute badass. And they're still the ones sitting on a multi billion dollar fortune.
*He made sure his money is getting to his kids. But they will never say "my dad was a hero who made this money for me".
* He gave Skyler the co-ordinates, giving Marie closure and exonerating his wife. The co-ordinates lead to his dead brother in law's body, a death that he spectacularly failed to stop from occurring.
* He saw his kids again. One of them will never remember who he was, the other hates him for what he did.
* He saved Jesse from the Aryans. Jesse, who finally learnt not to listen to Mr White.
The only victory I see that is anything but real outside Walt's head? Dying in his natural habitat, the place he loved best. Everything else was a justifiable win for Walt, but nothing went a way to redeeming him for his crimes. There was no redemption there, at least not in the grand scheme of things. Only for himself. In the end, Walt felt he was redeemed, and that's what mattered; that this awful, monstrous, horrific man - our lead character no less and the one that, for all the complaints that people want to see Czechoslovakians feeling the effects of the meth and they want to see Marie at Hank's funeral and they want to see 18 year old Holly, the show was always about and should always have been about - lay on the floor bleeding out and still his ego was so big that he died with a smile on his face, because everything went out his way and on his own terms. But his sins? None of them undone. Hank is still dead. His family still hate him. Skyler still has to live with herself after her own crimes. Jesse as well has to avoid police, deal with the deaths he has committed and the deaths that have been committed because of him.
fuck i didnt mean for that to be that long
That's perfectly fine. I just don't think there is anything in the story to support it. Nor is there anything in the story to support he gets away. All I know is, the point of that scene at the end was to show Jesse escaped from hell (which included Walt) - with a purpose and thirst for life (something he hadn't had in a long time). That was the point of that scene.
Whether you want to believe Jesse is in jail for the rest of his life rotting away, or he got away and moved to another country under a new identity (since he's been off the radar for months), so be it. All up to the viewer, since it wasn't apart of the actual story.
It's a good ending to a good show. Everyone wants to be a part of history when it's ongoing but give it a couple year's distance and cooler heads will prevail. I don't really think its legacy hinges on the ending (which was perfectly competent) so much as just not constantly being reminded GOLDEN AGE OF TELEVISION!!!!!11
And just to be clear, this isn't just my film > TV agenda speaking, I feel the same way about a lot of recently released movies too. The Social Network definitely comes to mind. Good movie, but a far cry from "generation-defining" and other hyperbole.
Brofist
Member
Yeah really, they seemed pretty thorough, would have been weird for them to overlook that aspect.
That's why I kinda like Nessbaums take. If the finale had ended with a pan out shot of Walt freezing to death in a car that wouldn't start, soooooo many people would have been pissed- and I'm not sure I'd even love it- but it would have been so ballsy and hopeless, I think it would have spurred on much discussion. The ending we got leaves little to discuss IMHO.
SparkleMotion
Member
I thought that Walt was going to die by cooking a final batch without the gas mask on.
Goddamn at the pitch that Vince had before doing season 1. That would have been gut wrenching.
Skinny Pete and Badger.
Skinny Pete and Badger.
Good post. I still feel like a lot is put on endings today though. But I think you are right, that generally people look at the totality of a show, and not just the ending. I personally didn't love the ending to the Wire or the final season. Whereas in contrast, I found the final 7 episodes of Breaking Bad to be much better.
Then again, I always hate comparing the two shows, because I always feel the Wire was not about ONE story. It was about telling the story of an entire city. So even though I didn't love the last season like I did the other seasons, you have to step back and look at the total picture the Wire painted. It's about the entire city, and everything it says about American Society.
Breaking Bad is more finite, and is a pretty beginning, middle and end story. I dunno. I wonder if people would have rather Granite State was the ending.
It would have been ballsy and hopeless for the sake of being ballsy and hopeless. It wouldn't have served the story, the characters, the viewers or the show anything.
I would've ended it like this. Walt drives into the Nazi compound. They search the car, trunk, etc. They shoot Walt in the head. Cut to black.
No one gets any money, no one escapes.
Technosteve
Banned
why did walt leave gray matter, the only loose end they never cleared up.
SparkleMotion
Member
Part of the reason the finale felt so muted to me is that I'm not really used to a show ending while leaving nothing to discuss. Everything was wrapped up.
I think allowing Walt to get arrested at the beginning of the episode would have been even ballsier than a dream sequence (which is the biggest, laziest cop out there is imo).
There was a lot of ways the finale could have gone, and pretty much all of them would be unsurprising given how much everyone went through. If Jesse shot Walt and it ended with him leaving, same reactions. If Walt shot Jesse and bled out, same reactions.
The only way I could see it be "ballsy" was if Jack straight up shot Walt there, and even then he already had the foresight to prepare his plan regardless of the outcome. The money was placed, Lydia was spiked. All this does is not give the viewer a conclusion to Walt and Jesse together while also probably upsetting more people.
Really, the show ended at Ozymandias. And to me(and many others) that is top of the class Breaking Bad, likely my personal favorite episode in the entire series. After everything was shattered there, the final 2 episodes were much slower and had an intentionally diluted stake. He went there fully intending to die, a simple revenge to top off all the destruction he has caused.
The only way I could see it be "ballsy" was if Jack straight up shot Walt there, and even then he already had the foresight to prepare his plan regardless of the outcome. The money was placed, Lydia was spiked. All this does is not give the viewer a conclusion to Walt and Jesse together while also probably upsetting more people.
Really, the show ended at Ozymandias. And to me(and many others) that is top of the class Breaking Bad, likely my personal favorite episode in the entire series. After everything was shattered there, the final 2 episodes were much slower and had an intentionally diluted stake. He went there fully intending to die, a simple revenge to top off all the destruction he has caused.
Probably overstating it to say that they know, but yeah I guess they'd be the most likely to have reason to believe.
crimzonflame
Member
Exactly.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
If the episode is better served by having less to discuss, then that's the direction to take.
I do like the idea that people are considering the finale to be "muted" precisely because it leaves them with less to do post-viewing.
I think that's certainly a more viable ending than Walt freezing to death in a car like he's in the fucking Shining :lol
But we'll agree to disagree on that. I wouldn't have traded Jesse strangling Todd, all the Nazis being taken out, Jack going out far less of a man than Hank did, that final song, and Walt getting one final moment with a meth lab for that ending.
He's completely fucked, tbh.
Oh I totally agree. Was just commenting on her review.
Or the tape was destroyed, cuz you know..that also makes sense.
But no. Of course they kept evidence that implicates them. Jesse is totally fucked.
More_Badass
Member
Remember how when Lost ended, there was this flood of shows trying to fill the void, all trying to be next big weird mystery drama? Most failed, I guess Fringe was the most successful successor
I'm betting we'll see other shows try to fill the Breaking Bad void, where the main character is a ordinary person who gets sucked into the grey world of crime.
I'm betting we'll see other shows try to fill the Breaking Bad void, where the main character is a ordinary person who gets sucked into the grey world of crime.
I wouldn't do it for realism's sake.
There's no question that the Nazis? they deserve to die. They're Nazis ffs. Jesse? He deserves to not live his life in captivity, etc.
But what the ending a character deserves and the ending they should get are two very very different propositions. Walt is a destructive force. I see zero redeeming qualities in him. To shy away from that reality in the finale... it's a bit of a cop out, imo.
PezDispenser
Banned
Loved the ending for what it was, but it's interesting to speculate about what we might have gotten if the flash forward scenes never happened. We all knew that the writers didn't have a concrete plan in mind when Walt bought that M60, and a decent portion of these last two episodes have felt a bit like the writers were just going through the paces in mending the show's present with its future. Wonder what would've turned out differently if the writers hadn't gone out of their way to limit themselves like they did.
In all though, it was an awesome ride, especially the final scene which was just perfect. Can't get Baby Blue out of my head, nor do I want to.
Walt is the man!
In all though, it was an awesome ride, especially the final scene which was just perfect. Can't get Baby Blue out of my head, nor do I want to.
Walt is the man!
Walt being shot in the head the moment he approaches isn't very satisfying on a thematic level. If they were going for a dark ending, should have just kept it Granite State. That was much better.
When they committed to Walt coming back for his swan song, your proposed ending would have been awful IMO. And I don't think the ending made Walt a hero, or made him redeemable in the slightest. It was a man that came to accept who he was, and went out his way.
To be fair, Weeds did it first.
Why not? Walt thinks he's in control and can end things on his own terms. Reality check: he's really just a pathetic old man.
(and if it was up to me, 5.2 would have taken a radically different shape. For one, he'd be going out on top, with his empire in flames, under attack from all directions, not from his retirement)
Like any work that dabbles in a suspension of disbelief, it's not so much that the characteristic exists as it is the danger of going too far with it. It's why - even after the things you listed - Gus' corpse straightening his tie just felt a bit off to a lot of people. This of course is going to vary depending on the person, but it's not unreasonable that there were folks may have found that some events just pushed their tolerance line a bit.
Scarface did it first. The shield did it first.
The only evidence against Jessie would be the fingerprints in the meth lab imo and Marie, but even then, maybe he used gloves while cooking. Considering he reached a purity of 96%, we can assume he was pretty thorough and kept the lab free of most contaminants. Anything else got destroyed (including Hank and Gomie). I think we can also assume that the Nazi destroyed not only Jessie's phone that Hank had, but also Jessie's video and all of the evidence Hank had against Walt when they ransacked the house. But even if Hank's evidence against Walt wasn't destroyed, that wouldn't be too big of an issue since there is no mention of Jessie in it. Hank only even thought of Jessie because he went loco with the money and was brought to the police station. So that leaves Marie, she will most probably mention him, but without any physical evidence against Jessie, what can the feds do?
Because Walt has always been really good at things when he put his head to it. It's not like it never happened in the show. I see nothing wrong with him pulling off a plan in the end, with his death as the result of it.
You guys act as if Walt never pulled off his plans. Sure, there was often consequences that came back ten folds. But there is no consequence left, because he's going to die and he knows it. The beauty of the episode was that Walt accepted he was a piece of shit, did it because he got off on it, and accepts he never felt more alive then when he was Heisenberg. He accepts he's going to die. So he goes out dying, feeling the best he can.
I don't find this redeemable or heroic. And I also don't find him succeeding anything that hasn't happened before. Breaking Bad was always a pulpy show, and the ending followed through with it.
EDIT: I do agree with you about the first half of Season 5 though (especially Episode 5 and 8).
Chezzymann
Member
Breaking Bad had 62 episodes in total. The 62nd element on the periodic table is Samarium. Samarium is used to treat lung cancer. Wow.
Infinite Justice
Member
that dream thing sounds dumb tbh.
Plus Walt schemes always had a chance to go perfectly but were usually fucked up by his ego getting in the way, this time around with him being one with himself he just fucking does it.
He its like he basically reached self actualization
Plus Walt schemes always had a chance to go perfectly but were usually fucked up by his ego getting in the way, this time around with him being one with himself he just fucking does it.
He its like he basically reached self actualization
Doubt that was intentional. Just like people thought Felina was Fe Li Na for Blood Meth and Tears. When in reality, it was about "Felina' the song walt had in his car (the casette). Felina being about a bandit who would rather die than escape without his love Felina. Walt's Felina, being his meth at the end.
But fans wanted to believe it was related to the chemical elements.
I guess the inevitability of his death does cheapen his final plan for me. He gets a free pass because he knows that, as always, he doesn't have to pay for the consequences of his actions. So the fact that he can end everything (or at least, quite a bit) on his own terms, while hardly redemption, seems a fate far too kind for Walt. His actions have had consequences for everyone but him, again and again. I'm sure some would argue being forced to confront his sins in solitary confinement in NH is punishment enough, but that's not enough for me.
I can't wait until a decade or two later when Breaking Bad is as absorbed into pop culture as Twin Peaks is.
Obscure Japanese dev studios are going to make the Breaking Bad version of Deadly Premonition for the PS8 and children cartoons are going to sneak in references to Heisenberg.
Obscure Japanese dev studios are going to make the Breaking Bad version of Deadly Premonition for the PS8 and children cartoons are going to sneak in references to Heisenberg.
I feel like we say it every episode, and I'll be surprised if it isn't Ozymandias that's submitted for the Emmy next year, but would it be too far to say that last night was Cranston's absolute best work on the show?
I've watched the episode twice now and he's just... phenomenal. And I don't even know how he keeps surprising me with his skills, but this new entity, born out of the ashes of Walt and Heisenberg, just showed even more facets to Cranston's ability. Just stunningly good.
I've watched the episode twice now and he's just... phenomenal. And I don't even know how he keeps surprising me with his skills, but this new entity, born out of the ashes of Walt and Heisenberg, just showed even more facets to Cranston's ability. Just stunningly good.
Amazing episode, don't understand how people can say it wasn't intense. It was intense from the Schwartz's onwards! Such a great part. And the rigged gun taking out the whole room and Jesse strangling Todd? Is that really not intense enough? So satisfying.
My only complaint would be that I wish there were some more kind of... dramatic, establishing shots? Hard to describe, but BB does them so well. Think when Gus is walking towards the hospital- scenes like that. Not a necessary shot but it sure does set the mood.
Maybe Walt and Jesse could have had a bigger moment, but otherwise I'm really just nitpicking. It was fantastic.
My only complaint would be that I wish there were some more kind of... dramatic, establishing shots? Hard to describe, but BB does them so well. Think when Gus is walking towards the hospital- scenes like that. Not a necessary shot but it sure does set the mood.
Maybe Walt and Jesse could have had a bigger moment, but otherwise I'm really just nitpicking. It was fantastic.
Who are you referring to?
Good post man, don't worry about length.