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BREXIT MAFIA | Pro-Having Our Lynch And Pro-Eating It
- Thread starter cabot
- Start date
That it's ridiculously anti-town? At least someone with an override can mis-shoot and the target's flip gets shown immediately. And the 3-day limit? I could've bought it as a neutral thing along with something else, but as town it makes for an absolutely incoherent role.
This as a town power would be like an inecessarily complicated role someone who didn't know overrides exist would come up with. I said as much when I voted for Gorlak yesterday.
This line is an outright lie btw. Like it's not even close enough that you could be honestly mistaken. Overriders exist "occasionally".
We've had a town thunderdome before, way back in Danganronpa. It even required the user to be a part of the thunderdome, the only new part is the N3 time limit (which seems a logical addition to me anyway).
I've never seen a scum thunderdomer, in fact.
Sure, I'll explain it as clearly as I can, the MS conf. is getting boring.
Gorlak's claimed role was incredibly anti town. There were several red flags in his post:
1. He admitted to lying about being a vanilla townie. Townies don't usually lie, specially when they're in a thunderdome.
2. His claimed role was not a townie would usually have. Town roles aren't usually as complicated to have to be used before certain day, for example.
3. Putting someone in a thunderdome with yourself is a role that fits with scum because it allows the user to pit themselves against a townie being scumread (like Flame was) and that's interesting because it offers an almost-guaranteed town lynch but still exposes scum and puts them at risk. It has strategic depth, or some risk-benefit element. The same power on a townie is more like a blind shot in the dark unless they were also a cop or something like that, it'd be a "for the lulz" role with no value. If I was a town player with that power I would have claimed day 1.
4. His role didn't sound like a town role, and he could have claimed neutral but he didn't. Why? I guess partly because he was not following the game closely, but also because CSS was already claiming to be one.
Does that explain my logic?
I'll concede to this point, it's not like I read every game. I'm talking from personal experience. I've even been one myself in the past.
I didn't know about Danganronpa but we don't have to go that far back, Time was a town-aligned thunderdome maker in Arkham, though he didn't have to add himself.
I'll say the time limit only cements the role as scum-aligned because a town thunderdomer should get time to make an informed choice about who to include in a thunderdome.
Scum gets a time limit because they know who to target from the get go obviously. They just have to wait for someone to be scumread and use it.
This itself is a lie, and again too blatant to be an honest mistake. Town lies more than scum.
Fireblend might not know this, but the last and only time that role was used (as far as I am aware) it was indeed a town role.
This is an elaboration on point two. I agree with... some of it, but as mentioned the only past examples I know of had this role as town.
Why is this even relevant?
gorlak (8)
crab 960
ccs 992
ourobolus 1074 (1189)
zippedpinhead 1133 (1195)
flame_ac 1179
zeemumu 1183
kingkitty 1194
kawl_usc 1199
fireblend 1204
zippedpinhead 1211
yes?
Sorry, let me correct myself. Good town players don't like.
Not sure what you're pointing out here. Doesn't change that according to my experience, town roles are simpler than scum ones. This one felt over-engineered
K
Because I could have believe a complicated role like that as a neutral. His not claiming neutral and sticking to the town story was a red flag myself. If he claimed neutral, he could've counterclaimed CCS for the "neutral" slot of the game.
Ah so we have two examples of town thunderdomers, and zero of scum. Righty-o.
It's an incredibly disruptive power, I'd put a time limit on it just to keep it out of end game. I can see the limitation being more important for scum than town, but that's a long way from making it "obviously" scum-aligned.
"Scum bussed Gorlak" == "scum bussed Gorlak to buy CCS an extra day".
I'm not disagreeing with the former, but your theory was the latter and makes no sense.
I'm sure Splinter will come up with examples where it wasn't the case but unless they're a third faction or teamed up, there's usually only one neutral "faction/player" in a game.
I think CCS is scum, and if not that they have to go either way because every single time a neutral is allowed to live that I can remember, town loses, even when their powers aren't necessarily anti town like CCS claims because they waste town time (or threat them with outing our doctor, like CCS I guess).
Ultimately I'm willing to bet they're scum, tho.
It seems CCS has to be neutral from the following events:
1. Kingkitty claims red check on CCS (either Kingkitty is lying or CCS is not town. Can't see a motive for Kingkitty to lie at that point).
2. CCS reveals that Gorlak is lying about his role. Up to this point Gorlak had been fairly safe, and this reveal causes Gorlak to be lynched.
3. Gorlak flips scum. CCS is almost entirely responsible for this lynch, so it's very unlikely they are teammates. This combined with 1 means CCS is neutral (or Kingkitty lied).
I'll admit that in crafting that theory I thought CCS voted for Gorlak before KK came out with the cop thunderdome.
But still I'm thinking that they were thinking the former. I mean
1) a Role Cop can be useful to town, although it is primarily useful to scum
2) Gorlak wasn't expected to get lynched, considering that Flame_AC was escaping lynching for 2 days
3) At worst CCS is a neutral and it would be best to get rid of them (what townie claims neutral?)
4) Gorlak's role was terrible. If I was on his team and he told me what he was, my first reaction would be "we are gonna bus the hell out of you."
Fight me on #4, Splinter
Do you think Flame is a reasonable target for CCS if they're indeed a neutral?
What kind of cop would target Flame after they win a thunderdome against a scum player that started the thunderdome themselves? What would neutral role cop CCS look to get from that read?
We would never have known Gorlak was lying without CCS, in which case he would almost certainly win the thunderdome. Also consider Gorlak's position in the game before his thunderdome: mild suspicion from a couple of players but otherwise under the radar. Exactly where scum want to be.
Yes his role was bad, but he's a very competent scum and could easily have survived to end game.
No, my understanding is that we learned a lot about CCS there - he's either neutral or scum and should be eliminated.
Poltergust
Member
Gorlak's scum reveal has really thrown me for a loop. While I did toss around the idea that the Thunderdome was scum vs. town, I didn't think that was actually the case because if Gorlak was the one who did the Thunderdome, why would he expose himself like that?
I'm kicking myself over not making the following connection sooner: it was later revealed by CCS that the Thunderdomer had a time limit of three days or else they would get modkilled. This made the possibility of scum being involved a lot more plausible, but I didn't connect the dots there.
I'm glad town made the right choice in the end. Now I don't know how to proceed because I was so gung-ho about lynching CCS, and I absolutely would vote for him this instant if Gorlak was revealed to be town or neutral. =/
I'm kicking myself over not making the following connection sooner: it was later revealed by CCS that the Thunderdomer had a time limit of three days or else they would get modkilled. This made the possibility of scum being involved a lot more plausible, but I didn't connect the dots there.
I'm glad town made the right choice in the end. Now I don't know how to proceed because I was so gung-ho about lynching CCS, and I absolutely would vote for him this instant if Gorlak was revealed to be town or neutral. =/
Poltergust
Member
By the way, I have no idea why scum killed Zippedpinhead. It's not like he was heavily considered to be town. I thought for sure that kingkitty or Flame_AC would die last night. Did scum not want to risk wasting a night action by targeting people which are almost certainly town and would therefore likely be defended?
Flame is such a terrible choice that I don't believe it. Since he's neutral though I'm not terribly interested in anything he claims going forwards. Hi seemingly only wants to survive, so anything he posts should be read with that in mind.
Speaking of which:
He kind of has us by the balls here w.r.t the doctor. I was thinking of letting him live (because who gives a shit as long as he's a survivor win con) but then we risk him finding more power roles and outing those as well.
And even that's making the somewhat generous assumption that he's "just" a survivor.
In other words, he's a liability.
VOTE: CCS
Can you explain how yesterday happened if CCS is scum? ELI5, because I honestly can't see it at all.
If CCS is scum then I am beyond confused.
Poltergust
Member
Hm, you bring up a good argument here. We know that, at the very least, CCS isn't town, which means he has no reason to do things that would benefit us.
I'll go along with your reasoning here. Even if CCS isn't scum he's still dangerous to us.
Vote: CCS
Again, this isn't 100% concrete or anything:
- Day starts, it's Gorlak vs Flame
- Flame has been on the hook for two days and has escaped. Not saying he is off the hook now, but it's a ballsy move for scum to thunderdome themselves
- KK claims cop and a red check on CCS, unprompted
---------------Are we really going to ignore that part?
- CCS claims Crab is vanilla and Flame is vanilla. Based on the amount of players, I would assume at least one of these is true
- CCS claims to know Gorlak's entire role PM. Not how I would have modded a role cop, but cabot can do what he wants.
- CCS votes Gorlak, and doesn't move it
- Gorlak's role sucks. It's one of the worst scum roles ever. Cabot sucks.
I'm on board up to this part. Not ignoring that last line either, it's the most important bit!
Err think you are confused here. Kingkitty claims Crab is town. I don't think CCS claimed Crab is vanilla unless I missed it? Also he didn't claim Flame is vanilla until today. Not sure if either of those points will be relevant to your theory but I'll continue.
Ok this is the part I wanted you to explain, especially that first point.
Why does scum-CCS reveal scum-Gorlak's role at that point?
Truer words were never spoken.
No you're right. That's what I meant, my bad. KK claimed Crab was town.
He's already been counterclaimed. And "Nationalist," at least to me, sounds like a Leave role, but again I'm not a Brit and I haven't followed along much.
My question to you is, if CCS somehow has the entire role PM, why did he never give us the Gorlak's NAME?
Who? You mean CCS being outed by Kitty? So look at this scenario:
Player A: "I'm cop, B is scum."
Player B: "Oh YEAH? Well so is C!"
Player C gets lynched, flips scum.
Player B gets lynched, flips scum.
Why did B out C? This is what you are suggesting and I'm not understanding.
I don't know?
Are you asking me why scum is dumber than expected? I don't know, convince me to not vote CCS, considering your vote is there,
There's no compelling reason why CCS should live past today. If scumCCS really did bus scumGorlak that's honestly hard to understand. But if CCS isn't scum, then CCS is a neutral, which is what he claims to be. Either alignment is fine for death.
Lets not make deals with a person (who is at best a neutral and who is at worst a very bold, bold scum) who basically threatened town. And will inevitably throw every member of town into a volcano if a better opportunity arises.
And if this neutral supposedly wanted to start helping town by finding scum, it's a pretty weird move to waste a supposedly final night check on flame_ac!
vote: CCS
Lets not make deals with a person (who is at best a neutral and who is at worst a very bold, bold scum) who basically threatened town. And will inevitably throw every member of town into a volcano if a better opportunity arises.
And if this neutral supposedly wanted to start helping town by finding scum, it's a pretty weird move to waste a supposedly final night check on flame_ac!
vote: CCS
I never thought that he was a town role. He himself said that he was a neutral (unless I'm misremembering) and with the way that he explained his role I saw it being realistic. I never really thought seriously about the role being scum related, partly because I've never seen it that way. Then with him lying about being vanilla, that again seemed reasonable. If I was in that position I would have lied as well. He was just unfortunate and happened to have been targeted the night before.
He never said he was neutral. Are you voting for CCS today? Now that kitty posted I'm once again in favor of turboing now. Hopefully before they can disclose the name of the doctor, too.
Ah. I must of filled that blank in my head without realising.
I was planning to vote for them. I was still catching up when I posted that so I didn't know people were committed to the turbo right now.
Vote: CCS
Poltergust
Member
If we can get one more CCS vote before he can reveal who the doctor is (or at least who he claims who the doctor is), that'd be swell.
Mostly because I didn't get to vote yesterday since you ended the day like 5 minutes before I woke up
And I'd would like to hear from those mentioned above
You are claiming vanilla? What is your role name?
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
DAY 4 VOTE TALLY:
CCS (7)
Fireblend 1226
Ourobolus 1255
*Splinter 1257
Poltergust 1260
kingkitty 1268
Kalor 1272
backslashbunny 1279
No active vote for Day 4: CCS, Crab, Flame_AC, Kawl_USC, Spoiled Milk, zeemumu
7 votes for majority
Day has ended.
Majority has been reached. Please do not post any more until your gamerunner delivers your result.
CCS (7)
Fireblend 1226
Ourobolus 1255
*Splinter 1257
Poltergust 1260
kingkitty 1268
Kalor 1272
backslashbunny 1279
No active vote for Day 4: CCS, Crab, Flame_AC, Kawl_USC, Spoiled Milk, zeemumu
7 votes for majority
Day has ended.
Majority has been reached. Please do not post any more until your gamerunner delivers your result.
Wut, I'm not trying to convince anyone of that? I'm asking how you can think he is scum.
He's clearly neutral and I already described why we should lynch him.
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