It would, but I don't see the UK retaining its special arrangements.
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Brexit | OT3 | A Feast for Crows
- Thread starter theaface
- Start date
It would, but I don't see the UK retaining its special arrangements.
Brexit is a mess, there is no better deal, just varying choices of worse deals or a god awful no deal.
Boris is still trying to promise unicorns that poop candy which is impossible so that tells you that Brexit won't deliver and he knows this already. UK will take one of the worse deals to save face with the will of the people nonsense and he is just looking to slither off with an excuse of I could have done it but May wouldn't go for it so the UK missed out as he would have delivered candy pooping unicorns. Others take the blame for wasting everyone's time with Brexit and delivering just plain old shit instead of ignoring Brexit and he retires to sniping on the sidelines or goes for the top job after the dust settles. It's all a big pointless game that didn't need to happen and nobody wise is willing to stick their neck out and stop it.
Its special arrangements basically gave the UK the same deal as EEA countries, like the rebate means the UK paying as much per capita as Norway, no Euro, not part of area of freedom, security and justice, ... So basically you get to keep the special conditions, because they weren't that special.
But it looks like Norway doesn't really want the UK to be part of the EFTA, as they'd dominate that association once they join.
Indeed. But that is a different problem.
SporeCrawler
Member
democratically legitimated catastrophic damage. its what people voted for so its okay
CyclopsRock
Member
Why would it lose financial dominance if it had the same situation as before? London's the overwhelmingly most popular financial centre in the EU right now for a reason.
anonymous_abc
Member
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Norway has freedom of movement for EU citizens, and for their theirs in the EU in return. Unless I misinterpreted what "part area of freedom" is supposed to mean.
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway–European_Union_relations
Also, Norway pays in relation to their GDP. Even in the EEA, that would be much higher for the UK. Unless of course Brexit has by then reduced your GDP to the level of Norway.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
It's not really a theory so much as a statement of the bleeding obvious.
JonathanEx
Member
Hey, I was giving Boris benefit of the doubt, maybe he isn't a manipulative liar who'll do anything for the sake of winning because this is all just a game to him
hahahahahahahahahaha no couldn't keep a straight face
Other European Union countries already tried to forbid Euro-trading in the Unite Kingdom because it is outside of the Euro. But as all member states are equal, that was against the court rules. European Economic Area members or similar deals don't get the same privilige. They are not equal.
"Area of freedom, security and justice", not freedom of persons: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Area_of_freedom,_security_and_justice
Norway and the United Kingdom pay about the same thing: https://infacts.org/norwegians-pay-same-brits-eu-access/
CyclopsRock
Member
Ah right, gotcha. Not because the people that do it wouldn't want to do it in London anymore, but because they'd be banned from doing so. That's one way of making Frankfurt more appealing I guess.
CyclopsRock
Member
You wait til the papz go away. They'll be fucking like mad later on. Hotels do that to people.
Linkstrikesback
Member
How could they possibly find time to fuck each other, when they're both busy fucking an entire country?
To quote one of the replies to that tweet...
Thank you for putting that mental image out in the ether. Very grateful.
The EEA absolutely includes freedom of movement. The wikipedia article you linked even says that.
Here is a quote, directly about the EEA from the website of the European Parliament
And I was saying that the UK, if it were to enter an EEA agreement would pay for the programmes in relation to their GDP, which is many times higher than that of Norway. Of course they might be able to negotiate a special rebate here as well, but just going for the basic deal would mean paying more in absolute terms.
Difference in GDP per capita between Norway and the UK is minimal. And it is higher for Norway than for the UK. Their total contribution is based on the total GDP, per capita however there is a limited difference in what they pay today. Because the UK already doesn't pay its full contribution, it is per capita pay is really similar to Norway.
I'm linking to something that is related to, but isn't the freedom of movement. It is about justice collaboration, Schengen,... All things that the EEA states can but aren't forced to follow if they don't want to. Just like the UK has a partial optout for it today, which it could keep as Swiss doesn't follow this either. It isn't the actual freedom of movement because you can't opt out of that.
These are two things we are discussing which I didn't say. It is the per capita, per person pay which I'm talking about. And the area for freedom, justice and security isn't the freedom of movement.
I'm linking to something that is related to, but isn't the freedom of movement. It is about justice collaboration, Schengen,... All things that the EEA states can but aren't forced to follow if they don't want to. Just like the UK has a partial optout for it today, which it could keep as Swiss doesn't follow this either. It isn't the actual freedom of movement because you can't opt out of that.
These are two things we are discussing which I didn't say. It is the per capita, per person pay which I'm talking about. And the area for freedom, justice and security isn't the freedom of movement.
anonymous_abc
Member
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Is this supposed to be the important intervention that has brought the negotiations to yet another hold? UK, please.
Why is Boris so keen on a hard Brexit? I thought the story last year was that really he is a remainer, and he was only Brexiting in the referendum campaign to try and get Cameron's job. That failed obviously, thanks partly to Gove, but I don't see what's in it for him any more to be so demanding on a hard Brexit.
It was fun while it lasted. Come on Boris, it's never too late to resign.
I'll be shocked if she does this - wouldn't the true Brexit believers see this as a capitulation to the EU's demands and demand her ouster?
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Ask for a Spitfires-for-all-Brexit, undermine May if she won't deliver it, it is impossible to deliver, get fired by May, May cocks up Brexit because it was never possible, May is booted, ride back in to power because 'if only we'd done things my way'.
Same thing he planned to do with the EU referendum - back Leave, Remain wins, get booted by Cameron, when Cameron reached the end of his politiacl career, ride back in to power on 'I listened to the members'.
Boris has used this exact strategy like four or five times now. Genuinely odious. I can't believe I'm saying this, but at the very least, I think Michael Gove, for example, has some convictions. Boris is the conjuction of ambition and amorality.
Yes and No. What they want is to settle on a methodology that clearly determines what the value of the bill will be. Currently that result leads to 60bn.
However, the reason they're interested in a methodology is because they don't want the UK to be constantly shifting and changing values on each stage of the negotiation. If the fundamentals are there then the UK can't invent reasons for whatever payment changes they want to make.
CyclopsRock
Member
Oh, Gove absolutely does. His tenure at the DoE was characterised by his almost zealot-like conviction. In fact, that's sort of where the jokey cartoon about him flying the plane into the alien ship comes from - that he arguably has too much conviction.
JonnyDBrit
Member
That's just... sad.
CyclopsRock
Member
Lol, I'm sure they'd have been queuing in the aisles if we'd voted Remain.
Linkstrikesback
Member
Not the isles, but whatever the speech would have been about in a Remain vote timeline would have been next to nothing about whether leaving or staying is important to the UK beyond a footnote.
Either way; compare to Trumps audience
http://ste.india.com/sites/default/files/2017/09/20/626078-trump.jpg
It's hard to not feel people don't really care about what May has to say.
MeatGrinder
Member
You know that Londons biggest source of income is the financial district, right? Losing that is a hell of a blow on its own.
As a non-Brit living in a European city that will get parts of that financial district, I know.
Wrestlemania
Banned
To be fair, looking back at old Cameron speeches at the UN GA it looks like nobody ever gives a shit what the UK has to say.
https://www.nytimes.com/video/world...meron-addresses-general-assembly.html?mcubz=3
Certainly the statement that Brexit is the reason for people not giving a shit might not hold up.
But so much for the "Global" Britain free from the shackles of the EU that the numbskulls keep pushing doesn't hold up either if nobody gives a shit.
Linkstrikesback
Member
I tried to look for a picture of camerons speeches for a comparison before I settled for the trump photo, but that's better, yeah. There's a view of the audience around the 10 minute mark.
Before: Slightly relevant, mildly amusing.
After: Slightly irrelevant, mildly un-amusing.
Fuckers. Have they not heard about our jams and marmalades?
TBH, we've been punching above our weight for a long time. Poor Blighty.
Monty Mole
Member
This has nothing to do with Brexit and everything to do with Theresa May.
Obviously Trump was going to get a full house, and on the first day too when people were fresh. But obviously Blair would have got a much bigger audience back in the day. Back when he had his nose browned by Bush.
Anyway, does anyone know what time Theresa's speech is tomorrow?
EDIT: Looking at past UN speeches by Merkel (eg 2010) there is also a half empty crowd. It seems people only turn up for the US.
MeatGrinder
Member
Then I don't understand your post. Can you please refrase it?
As a very pro European person, I can only laugh at the brilliance that Brexit gives Britain exactly the same dues without any of the advantages they had.
Psychotext
Member
Speak ur brane is about as amusing / infuriating as you'd expect it to be on this story: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41342580
HYS is filled with kippers. It's a terrible place.
Also Boris let's see if your going to resign now...seems like we are going to be offering money and a transition deal.
Nope
So, May's talk tomorrow is apparently about a 2 year transitional deal were they will pay about 20 billion for the privilege and who knows what the other figure for leaving is. Also, they want to have access to the EU as now and in the future, single market access in a bespoke deal, lastly while this going on, they want to strike up trade deals with other countries.
I feel we have been down this road already except they are waving 20 billion in front the EU but it's totally not deductible, no sir, let us eat cake then it's totally deductible. I think we are going around in circles again.
I feel we have been down this road already except they are waving 20 billion in front the EU but it's totally not deductible, no sir, let us eat cake then it's totally deductible. I think we are going around in circles again.
Psychotext
Member
Bro... don't you know that we can just walk away? The EU will be so damn sorry then. Yeah, that'll learn em.
Pretty much. It's the same nonsense proposal as earlier but May decided to throw 20 billion on top.
6 Months in and we still don't have a realistic position on a lot of topics from the UK.