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Brexit | OT3 | A Feast for Crows

nekkid

nekkid

It doesn't matter who we are, what matters is our plan.
A second referendum on Brexit, no matter what the choices are, is just stupid. Really fucking stupid.
 
J

jelly

Member
I wonder how Justin Trudeau will respond to a trade deal with the UK considering they just got one within the EU. Sometime in the future maybe....that's best for us.....not the UK over that barrel. Maybot mode, friends...great friends....believe in trade.....please, pretty please.
 
X

Xando

Member
theaface said:
Ruh roh...

Brexit department head Oliver Robbins leaves, throwing Government plans into chaos



Oh and...



tenor.gif
Click to expand...
Tory civil war has been brewing since the election and it looks like it will break out soon
Let’s hope we finally get someone sensible as PM ending this farce
 
G

Gurgelhals

Member
Acorn said:
May gotta realise she's gonna be this centuries go to "worst pm" archetype ala Chamberlain.
Click to expand...

I think Cameron has got this on lock simply by virtue of the fact that he called that bloody referendum, did it for all the wrong reasons, in all the wrong ways imaginable, still expected to win handily, and then buggered off when it blew up in his face. Even after more than a year, I find the sheer scope of his arrogance and carelessness utterly beyond belief.

Of course, May is terrible and, because she's completely out of her depth, has managed to make the clusterfuck that is Brexit even worse. But she still inherited what was essentially an impossible situation from the beginning.
 
C

chadskin

Member
Sun: Boris Johnson believes Brexit negotiations will fail and end up with Theresa May being humiliated
BORIS Johnson believes Brexit negotiations will fail and end up with Theresa May being humiliated, it has emerged.

The Foreign Secretary has told friends that it’s vital the government prepares to walk away from the stalled talks as the EU will not give the UK any big concessions.

Boris told one close friend recently that “nobody ever beats the EU in a negotiation”, and the Brussels elite will again succeed in grinding down the PM and force her to accept bad terms.

The senior Tory’s thinking explains why he is pushing Mrs May to keep to a hard line in talks and not give away big sums of money or agree to trade restrictions.

Boris sparked furore on Saturday by attacking No10’s plans to offer up to £10bn during a two year transition period for continued single market access.

A close confidante of Boris’s added: "He always makes a point of saying ‘no deal is better than a bad deal’ because he thinks it will be what we have to do.

“They want to punish us, that has always been Boris's view, and that has now come abundantly clear from the negotiations so far".
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We still in cloud cuckoo land.
 
U

Uzzy

Member
At least we've moved on from 'Brexit means Brexit.' We now have 'Boris is Boris.' That's progress of a sort!

So I take it Boris has a contingency plan for no deal, right? Something to mitigate the problems that'll cause? It'd be mad to consider no deal unless something like that is available, wouldn't it?
 
V

Vagabundo

Member
Uzzy said:
At least we've moved on from 'Brexit means Brexit.' We now have 'Boris is Boris.' That's progress of a sort!

So I take it Boris has a contingency plan for no deal, right? Something to mitigate the problems that'll cause? It'd be mad to consider no deal unless something like that is available, wouldn't it?
Click to expand...

I'm sure he has a couple of points written on a beer mat him and his mates dreamed up while scoffing back pints of lager, singing:

He drinks a whiskey drink
He drinks a vodka drink
He drinks a lager drink
He drinks a cider drink
He sings the songs that remind him of the good times
He sings the songs that remind him of the better times
 
N

Number45

Member
The EU have been giving us concessions for fucking years and people are still surprised that they're going to stop now that we've thrown all of our bargaining chips out of the window.
 
T

theaface

Member
Just came up on the Guardian's politics live feed...

Brexit likely to generate 'net fiscal loss', not £350m per week extra for NHS, says IFS

In his Telegraph article Boris Johnson claimed that ”we will take back control of roughly £350 million per week" after Brexit and that it would be a ”fine thing" if a lot of that money went to Brexit. The UK Statistics Authority said that this misleading and that Johnson was guilty of a ”clear misuse of official statistics". Johnson disputed this.

But, on matters of public finance, it is customary in Westminster/media circles to defer to the judgment of the Institute of Fiscal Studies. And the IFS has now pronounced that, far from Brexit saving the taxpayer £350m per week, the taxpayer is more likely to lose money from it overall, because of the impact Brexit will have on growth.

It also points out that this is the official government position, because the government has accepted this analysis in the Office for Budget Responsibility forecast.

Here is the letter, from the IFS's deputy director Carl Emmerson.

The Office for Budget Responsibility forecasts the outlook for the UK economy and the public finances; these forecasts have been adopted by the chancellor as the government's own. They contain an allowance of almost £250 million per week — not £350 million — for funding that could in principle go to the NHS rather than the EU. But this would involve no state support for any other activities, such as subsidies for agriculture, that are at present funded in the UK by the EU.

The bigger picture is that the forecast health of the public finances was downgraded by £15 billion per year — or almost £300 million per week — as a direct result of the Brexit vote. Not only will we not regain control of £350 million weekly as a result of Brexit, we are likely to make a net fiscal loss from it. Those are the numbers and forecasts which the government has adopted. It is perhaps surprising that members of the government are suggesting rather different figures.
Click to expand...

Things are looking pretty good.
 
K

keep

Member
I love the bit at the end in that article implying the Government WELL KNOWS Brexit is going to be an economic disaster.

#tiredofexperts
 
T

theaface

Member
keep said:
I love the bit at the end in that article implying the Government WELL KNOWS Brexit is going to be an economic disaster.

#tiredofexperts
Click to expand...


It's certainly something.

It also points out that this is the official government position, because the government has accepted this analysis in the Office for Budget Responsibility forecast.
Click to expand...
Office for Budget Responsibility forecast.
Click to expand...
Budget. Responsibility.
Click to expand...
 
K

keep

Member
avaya said:
The government never thought the people would be stupid enough to vote to leave. But here we are.
Click to expand...

Please! It's 100% the Government's fault.

If they knew Brexit was a terrible idea before the referendum, why put it up for a vote? It's highly irresponsible of them to do this for political reasons only and you can't 'blame' people for democratically choosing one of the options.

If they realised Brexit was a terrible idea after the referendum, they could have just ignored it or negotiated with the EU a better deal off the back of the result. The referendum wasn't binding and they routinely ignore the 'will of the people' anyway. Instead they triggered article 50 and accepted the result. For political reasons again.

If they now realise Brexit is a terrible mistake, they could always call it off. But they won't because it'll mean they will be kicked out of power. So they cling on trying to get 'the best deal possible' knowing it's going to be a disaster anyway.

Blaming the stupids is what Tory apologists would like.
 
M

Monty Mole

Member
theaface said:
Just came up on the Guardian's politics live feed...

Brexit likely to generate 'net fiscal loss', not £350m per week extra for NHS, says IFS



Things are looking pretty good.
Click to expand...

This is all the exact same analysis we were hearing before the referendum vote. It's nothing new. People still have their fingers in their ears.
 
C

Coxy100

Banned
nekkid said:
A second referendum on Brexit, no matter what the choices are, is just stupid. Really fucking stupid.
Click to expand...

Whilst I partly agree my overriding feeling is that we're leaving the EU because 37% of the electorate voted for it. That's not a massive figure to make such a massive change to our country.

It would not be democratic if we didn't have another referendum to say "look a tiny majority voted to leave the EU - now this is what it will actually look like after the negotiations - do you still want to leave?" That's how I feel
 
U

Uzzy

Member
Boris Johnson 'will resign before weekend' if Theresa May goes against his Brexit demands

Boris Johnson will resign as Foreign Secretary before the weekend if Theresa May veers towards a “Swiss-style” arrangement with the EU in her Brexit speech in Florence, The Telegraph understands.

The Foreign Secretary believes he will have no option but to walk out of the Cabinet if the Prime Minister advocates permanently paying for access to the single market.

Stopped by reporters in New York today after going for a run, Mr Johnson said he was not going to resign and described the Cabinet as "a nest of singing birds".

But privately he has told friends that a so-called “EEA minus” version of Brexit is something he “could not live with”.

Mrs May has called a full Cabinet meeting on Thursday, at which she will set out the final draft of her Brexit speech for ministers’ approval.

She will then deliver her speech - the most significant on Brexit since January - in Italy on Friday afternoon.
Click to expand...
 
J

Joni

Member
If Brexit ends up giving the United Kingdom the exact same deal it had before, but without any way to block anything and losing two agencies, and still probably losing the financial heart, then it is perfection.
 
F

Frankfurter

Member
Joni said:
If Brexit ends up giving the United Kingdom the exact same deal it had before, but without any way to block anything and losing two agencies, and still probably losing the financial heart, then it is perfection.
Click to expand...

And yet it is the best the UK, the EU, and really anybody can hope for.
 
J

Joni

Member
Frankfurter said:
And yet it is the best the UK, the EU, and really anybody can hope for.
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Of course. The UK would remain a de-facto member but wouldn't have any power anymore. It is also a pro-EU person can hope for, certainly as the Swiss model includes free movement. It has migration restrictions, but the current European Union rules have those same rules.
 
Z

Zaph

Member
I couldn't give a shit about May or her cabinet, but Boris is such a dangerous cunt for doing this.

He doesn't want to "give away big sums of money or agree to trade restrictions", so do what exactly? He knows his "plans" are an impossible joke and has no intention of working to clean up his mess, so he's happy to walk away muttering bullshit about Brexit being better his way - and millions will believe him and use it as an excuse to keep their head in the sand.
 
D

Dirtyshubb

Member
It really feels like there are two types of conservative MPs: the self serving, ignorant, racists, morons who only know how to fuck over others for their own self interests and the other is the arseholes who actually believe the shitty ideas and policies the first group spout to fuck people over except they actually believe it.
 
J

jelly

Member
Dirtyshubb said:
It really feels like there are two types of conservative MPs: the self serving, ignorant, racists, morons who only know how to fuck over others for their own self interests and the other is the arseholes who actually believe the shitty ideas and policies the first group spout to fuck people over except they actually believe it.
Click to expand...

Nah, they are all the first, others just hide it until they are comfortable in their life and nothing that happens has any negative bearing on their life quality.

I see Boris is looking for his out while promising rainbows and gold because he knows Brexit will be a disaster or just a weak step back from the best EU deal any country has. He just wants to bark from the side lines now and say he could have done it better if wasn't for....
 
O

operon

Member
surely boris can't win a leadership challenge his time has gone.

The more I see of brexit the more I think its all a cult. You just got to believe that it will be ok and think positive about it before we all drink the poisoned kool aid and meet up on the spaceship behind jupiter
 
D

Dirtyshubb

Member
jelly said:
Nah, they are all the first, others just hide it until they are comfortable in their life and nothing that happens has any negative bearing on their life quality.

I see Boris is looking for his out while promising rainbows and gold because he knows Brexit will be a disaster or just a weak step back from the best EU deal any country has. He just wants to bark from the side lines now and say he could have done it better if wasn't for....
Click to expand...
Honestly, I was just being diplomatic and do feel all Tories fit into the first group.

The fact that 'helping the economy' can be the sole given reason for all Tory votes says a fucking lot about their supporters.
"yeah they discriminate and fuck the 99% over, but they are good with the economy". Fucking ridiculous, especially because all evidence shows they are (intentionally) the worst.
 
C

Camp Freddie

Member
I'm mildly confused.

Boris is the foreign secretary and one of the 3 senior ministers in charge of Brexit.
The Prime Minister is giving a speech in 3 days time on Brexit, yet apparently he has not been told what Brexit strategy she will propose.

I'd like to think it's just Boris being an arse and loudly announcing his resignation because he knows exactly what the PM's strategy is. But I'm entertaining the possibility that Davis, Boris, Fox and May are literally not on speaking terms and are treating Brexit as an unimportant proxy in their 'real' battle for leadership of the Tory party.

What the fuck is going on? We can't even successfully negotiate a Brexit between the PM and her Brexit department. What chance do we have of negotiating something sensible with Barnier?
 
D

Dirtyshubb

Member
Camp Freddie said:
I'm mildly confused.

Boris is the foreign secretary and one of the 3 senior ministers in charge of Brexit.
The Prime Minister is giving a speech in 3 days time on Brexit, yet apparently he has not been told what Brexit strategy she will propose.

I'd like to think it's just Boris being an arse and loudly announcing his resignation because he knows exactly what the PM's strategy is. But I'm entertaining the possibility that Davis, Boris, Fox and May are literally not on speaking terms and are treating Brexit as an unimportant proxy in their 'real' battle for leadership of the Tory party.

What the fuck is going on? We can't even successfully negotiate a Brexit between the PM and her Brexit department. What chance do we have of negotiating something sensible with Barnier?
Click to expand...
This is probably the most unpatriotic comment I have ever read, you should be ashamed of yourself.

The UK is fucked
 
C

CyclopsRock

Member
Camp Freddie said:
I'm mildly confused.

Boris is the foreign secretary and one of the 3 senior ministers in charge of Brexit.
The Prime Minister is giving a speech in 3 days time on Brexit, yet apparently he has not been told what Brexit strategy she will propose.

I'd like to think it's just Boris being an arse and loudly announcing his resignation because he knows exactly what the PM's strategy is. But I'm entertaining the possibility that Davis, Boris, Fox and May are literally not on speaking terms and are treating Brexit as an unimportant proxy in their 'real' battle for leadership of the Tory party.

What the fuck is going on? We can't even successfully negotiate a Brexit between the PM and her Brexit department. What chance do we have of negotiating something sensible with Barnier?
Click to expand...

We're all sort of assuming that the speech in Florence is going to be a coming out party for our Brexit stance, but we don't actually know this. Maybe she'll do a Hugh Abbot and get all the media there and say "I just want to get you all together and say that we're doing a bloody good job, quietly, but you never report that do you?!"
 
J

JonathanEx

Member
What do you make of the theory that Boris wants a distance from the mess, so is grandstanding in a 'go on, fire me!' thing because he'd look weak for stepping down?
 
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